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Okay, now that these Games are winding to a successful close why not open a new discussion topic. With all the hoopla regarding whether Athens would pull it off, I guess we have to give the Greeks credit for a very enjoyable Games.
In July 2005 the IOC will award the 2012 Games to one of five cities bidding. Currently Paris, London, Madrid, NYC and Moscow are in the running. Who do you think will win the right to host 2012?
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RBear78240: Okay, now that these Games are winding to a successful close why not open a new discussion topic. With all the hoopla regarding whether Athens would pull it off, I guess we have to give the Greeks credit for a very enjoyable Games.
In July 2005 the IOC will award the 2012 Games to one of five cities bidding. Currently Paris, London, Madrid, NYC and Moscow are in the running. Who do you think will win the right to host 2012?
I don't think it will be New York. And it shouldn't be New York what will the US airport screening paranoia. Moscow has already hosted it, haven't they? It will go to Madrid.
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Brooking's boy: Nope, Beijing, I believe.
That said, If it isn't NY, Madrid would be my pick. Barcelona was one of the most visually stunning games I've seen shy of Sydney.
The last thing I want to see is American atheletes put through the type of reception the French are likely to greet them with.
I agree with Barcelona being one of the most memorable games. Madrid has an edge in that several of the venues are ready for competition. Right now Paris appears to be the odds on favorite with Madrid following. A lot can happen in a year and the IOC selection committee has shocked us before.
Regarding Americans in France, that would be eight years from now so I don't think you can apply current sentiment to 2012.
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puckman1: Off post, but where are the 2006 Olympics? Is it Shanghai?
BTW 2006 is in Torino, Italy .... as for 2012. very star studded, even though Moscow had the 80 Olympics, I don't think that's an eliminator for 2012, if anything the Moscow committee could try and play the "this time, everyone's coming" angle.
As for Madrid, with Barcelona holding the Olympics in '92, I think that could be a detrement to it's 2012 candidacy. I'm guessing that London will get it.
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I just went to Paris in April so I'm rooting for them. I also think London should be given consideration if Paris isn't picked. I agree with everyone that Barcelona was beautiful so Madrid is definately a contender. Moscow had it in 1980 which we didn't attend. And as for New York, I know this may not be a popular statement so forgive me, but I think they were only given consideration for sentimental reasons. I doubt they'll be a real contender. Go Paris!!!!
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As the 2004 Olympics are in Greece, and 2008 will be in Bejing, it will come back to the West for 2012. It is a better bet that NYC will get the summer games. What might work against them is 2010 in Vancouver, as the IOC likes to have the games spread out.
I beleive the better bet for 2012 will be London or Paris. Given the French reaction to the Americans, there will be a lot of US and US corporate sponsor pressure not to go to Paris.
So, after that ramble, I would say #1 pick is London, #2 pick is NYC.
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I'd like London or Paris. The U.S. has had a lot of Olympics recently (1980-Lake Placid, 1984-Los Angeles, 1996-Atlanta, 2002-Salt Lake City). The last Olympics in London was 1948. The last Olympics in Paris was 1924 (Although France hosted the Winter Olympics in Albertville in 1992.)
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Brooking's boy: The last thing I want to see is American atheletes put through the type of reception the French are likely to greet them with.
I totally disagree. Europeans are much more mature and knowledgeable that individual Americans are not responsible for the foreign policy offenses of this administration. The Greeks, who were generally even less pro-US foreign policy than the French, have been nothing but gracious and welcoming hosts to US athletes this year. If any anti-Americanism was going to happen, it would have been this year in Athens. Push things out eight years from now, barring even greater calamities to our relationship with Europe, I can easily see US athletes being welcomed in Paris like brothers. The French still like Americans as individuals, still like American products and services, it's just Bush policies they despise. (What would have been truly disastrous is if the '04 Summer games were in the US, particularly in a more provincial/less international US host city - the French would have been resoundingly booed by every "Toby Keith" in the stadium.)
But back to the topic, I think Paris will be the host city. It's got the infrastructure, the sports legacy, France is a leader in the Olympic movement, Paris has the reputation as a global city, France has a lot of international support, and France has not hosted a summer games since 1924. (The '92 winter games in Albertville were masterfully hosted.)
My runner up is London. It can make all the same arguments as Paris, but the English-speaking world has dominated as host cities in the past 30 years (Montreal [bi-lingual], Los Angeles, Calgary, Atlanta, Sydney, Salt Lake, and Vancouver) and that is to London's detriment.
My dark horse candidate is Madrid. It has some selling points, but I think Spain is not big enough an Olympic powerhouse to warrant hosting two summer games within 20 years, and, aesthetically speaking, Madrid is markedly less attractive a city than Barcelona.
In terms of odds, I'd put NYC fourth. I think it only ranks as high as it does because of post-9/11 sympathy (which will be even weaker in coming years). After the Atlanta debacle, I don't see a US city hosting a summer games before 2016. Vancouver's hosting in 2010 is a detriment to NYC's chances.
Moscow comes in last for me. It seems its strongest selling points are the sports legacy of Russia and an attempt to rectify the 1980 boycott. Russia's relative political and economic instability (when compared to Britain, France, Spain and the US), make Moscow the riskiest choice, in my opinion.
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First off, Madrid is NO Barcelona. And I don't think they'd go back to Spain when GB/France haven't hosted in decades.
New York was a very stupid pick by the USOC. This may sound a little harsh, but NY was chosen because the whole "I love NY" craze was in full swing after what happened in 2001. San Francisco had a better bid and would have had a much better shot at landing the 2012 games in the U.S. Hopefully the U.S. puts forth a better bid for 2016.....I would like to see Chicago go for it and hopefully San Fran will resubmit.
Moscow will have a hard time. It's a pain in the ass to travel to Russia.
As for London/Paris, Paris has a great layout already and has many of the necessary facilities.
As for politics, the IOC is a very non-American organization. They probably don't give a crap what the Americans want. And if you ask me, the French would get treated much worse in the U.S. than the Americans in France. But once again, this will be 8 years from now, so hopefully things will be better by then. The Americans have been booed in Athens.......you just don't hear about it/see it on TV.
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I was pissed off at first when New York edged out San Francisco as a U.S. representative. But now that I come to think of it, I don't think it's a good idea that the City by the Bay host it. Traffic here is extremely difficult, even in the summer. Ilini, I agree that Frisco had the facilities but in all fairness I think the other cities(Paris, Madrid, London) would probably do a better job. The only real good I see Frisco holding the games would be the Castro of course. Can you imagine all those hot gymnasts walking around that neighborhood? People would think the Castro Street fair started up early![grin]
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Lksimcoe: As the 2004 Olympics are in Greece, and 2008 will be in Bejing, it will come back to the West for 2012. It is a better bet that NYC will get the summer games. What might work against them is 2010 in Vancouver, as the IOC likes to have the games spread out.
well between 92-94 (Albertville, Barcelona, and Lillehammer) then again with Athens and Torino in '06, I think the whole proximity thing can be thrown to the wayside, but as previously posted, I'll take London.
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"A hammer and a nail is not a rivalry" - Tom Brennan on Illinois 9-game winning streak in the Braggin Rights series against Missouri
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Some very interesting thoughts on where 2012 will be hosted. I agree with some of the sentiments regarding the NYC pick. I believe it was a sentimental selection and has proven so in the fact that NYC is having to refactor their bid based on IOC feedback from the last round. They are touting it as the "subway Olympics". The biggest infrastructure to be built will be a stadium for athletics.
If you really want to see what factors into a bid and also view the actual bid proposals go to GamesBids.com where they actually track all Olympic bids. The latest news article in their archives talks about how the Bush political ad may actually hurt NYC's chances for their bid.
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WHile I do not necessarily disagree with you, Aquaman, do not be so sure that the Euros will behave more maturely and polite than the Americans: remember the "mature" Europeans who spat at Lance Armstrong as he raced in the Tour?
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As a NYer, I don't think we need the Olympics and I would rather our funds be used for more urgent matters. Historically, the Olympics have helped to put cities on the map by giving them need exposure or by helping developing nations show off their new-found economic muscle. But I did read that at the 2012 city candidate presentations that took place in Athens that NYC had the best presentation. I also read that Paris is still the frontrunner.
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Personally, I'd like to see the 2012 games come to NYC since I live only about an hour and some change away. I'd like to actually check out an Olympics Games in my country. But even if we don't get it, I'm sure NYC will have another shot in the future.
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I've read that although NYC is not the favorite for 2012, Bush's use of the Olympic games in his campaign ad basically put the nail in the coffin for NYC.
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illini n milwaukee:
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I'd like to actually check out an Olympics Games in my country.
Geez, let's not be selfish! wink
The UK hasn't had an Olympics was in 1948.
The last summer games in France was 1924. They had the winter Olympics in 92.
The last summer games in the US were in 1996. And the winter Olympics in 2002.
Some other people have waited 80 years to see a summer games in their countries.......and we just had one 8 years ago!
Well, Im only 21. In '96 I was only 13 and wasn't as interested in the Games as I am now. I was a senior in high school during the '02 winter games, so that was a no go. I had a week of vacation during the Olympics, but I was busy with college related stuff in that time (I literally sent all my applications a week before deaDlines ).
I'm just saying that it'd be great to see the Games in my country. I wouldn't have to spend any money on air fare, hotels, etc. since I live closeby. Besides, by 2012 I'll be 29, and I have plans move into NYC anyway, so it would work out beautifully. But if the games go to Paris, or London, I'm fine with waiting until 2016, or 2020, or whenever NYC can get the games. I just want that experience of being there, you know?
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I'm totally against the olympics being in NYC. It will make the city a mess to get around, new stadiums and facilities will be built which will mean less housing. It will be a boon for builders and construction trade unions, but it will be hell for the rest of us and the taxpayers will be stuck with a huge bill. I hope the 2012 games will go anywhere but New York.
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As an australian who went to the Sydney games, they are fantastic to attend and if you get the chance do it!!!
Unfortunatley i don't think you guys will get them again for some time particulary after the debacle at Alanta, also you had Los Angeles not long ago, the IOC will be spreading them out more evenly now.
Your television rights used to have a greater pull in determining who got the games but that is no longer the case with the new IOC president, personally its about time London had them.
I would have thought your commitee would have a put a better bid city forward as the times i've been to N.Y for holidays and the U.S open it is a nightmare of a place.
Go leyton at the open by the way he is finally getting some form back a good outside chance.
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A lot of Londoners dont want the Olympics cos of all the disruption, etc. The British used to put forward other cities with less congestion like Manchester but the IOC members have made it clear they (and their spouses) dont want to stay for two weeks in a provincial, industrial city and would only ever vote for London. Samaranch had a bit of a thing about the British media (which kept on writing about his Fascist past) so in theory London has more chance now hes retired but the campaign has already shot itself in the foot several times by offending various people.
I expect it will go to Paris (they are definitely due it) but that would mean breaking the established sequece of going round the time-zones so maybe New York could sneak through as the only candidate from the western hemisphere left.
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rod123, welcome by the way. What do you mean by debacle in Atlanta? Atlanta did a tremendous job hosting the Olympics, even better than Los Angeles. The Games also had fantastic ratings for NBC but I imagine that's also because the Olympics were hosted in August rather than in Sept like Sydney and Seoul. If you're referring to the bombing at Olympic Park, I agree it was a horrible incident but that doesn't mean the Atlanta Games were any failure. The 1996 Games were by far my favorite, next to Los Angeles.
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It was drunk German fans of contender Jan Ullrich who spat at Lance, and they spat at other riders too, not just Americans. Tour de France crowds have always been rowdy on those mountain stages.
Have any of you guys who worry about how Americans would be treated in Paris actually been there? I've never had a problem as an American traveling in France at all. In fact, I love it there. The Olympics in Paris would be undoubtedly very stylish and a class act.
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I just returned from Paris, and the Parisians couldn't be nicer. It's been my experience that the same people who hated Paris, also have similar feelings about NYC. I don't think they are comfortable in a sophisticated. urban setting.
2012 Olympic City
Aug 26 2004, 06:44 PM
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