Everyone's experience of the Gay Games is different from everyone else's. For those who were there, what was your experience of the Games?

[ July 26, 2006, 06:07 AM: Message edited by: m1 ]

Good morning Outsports!
I have followed your site for many years and even submitted a few posts/letters thanking you for coverage of the Sydney 2002 Gay Games. I have always looked forward to being able to read very uplifting stories about the athletes, individual and team accomplishments, even sidebars that you guys are so good at writing; adding personal vingettes to the overall stories we do get to see publicized elsewhere. You have done this and more for the Chicago Gay Games as well; thank you.
However, I would love to point out... we still need to get to the athletes who went to Chicago and haven't posted here... particularly the ones who had a WONDERFUL experience and had very little to gripe about. I believe I was one of the lucky ones who experienced more than I could ever have hoped for and even this being my second Gay Games to participate in (Swimming) I still felt the rush of emotions and sense of incredible victory just by being there with so many other LGBT athletes/participants/spectators.
I agree with Cyd's poll description that says we all experienced something different at the Games and had different perspectives based on the sport we participated in... but rather than grading and bashing, we couldn't focus just a bit more on the relevance of the mission of the Games and the inclusion that was evident throughout the sports and cultural events? Maybe, like some of the posters here have mentioned, find those stories of the "youth" who participated for the first time or "straight" athletes and why they were there competing? I know there are stories and was eager to share some of my truly positive experiences with you and the Outsports troop at CREW on Wednesday night at your special night there. After adding the night to my itinerary as soon as I received notice about it from email to members, I was really bummed to get there and find that none of the staff there knew about event other than Outsports members were supposed to get blue wristband. "Can you tell me who is organizing this night or where the folks from the site are located here?", I asked of several employees from servers, to DJ, to doorman... no one could answer. I still want to get the message out and am beyond STOKED at what several thousand men and women accomplished this last week. Wouldn't it be petty to focus on how well or not well represented the Outsports team was at CREW on Wednesday night when all of the "World Was Meeting" in Chicago for something huge that may not happen again there in our lifetimes?
With much love and respect to the writing team I KNOW can cover this whole story with the spirit of pride and respect that I believe these Games truly deserve, I submit my humble opinion.
Thanks for all that you continue to do for our whole community guys! You're awesome and I look forward to getting your site out to the rest of south Texas, to some folks who have no idea what it feels like to be this proud of something like this... yet
Sincerely,

Since this was my first Gay Games, I wasn't sure what to expect, but the games were awesome. I have to say the some of the organizing could have been better, at times it seemed like there were too many Chiefs, and not enough Indians. I loved that there were so many great volunteers at this event. One downside seemed to be a lack of communication about rain delays, change of venues, etc, but again, overall, great experience. They could shorten the Opening Ceremony. It was WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too long, and many left before the headliners came on.

The opening ceremoines were incredible. What a high energy feeling to sprint on to Soldier Field under all those lights. Amazing. As far as the length, I've heard that the speaches were not to exceed a certain lenghth. I'm not certain what could have been done to keep them from rambling on. My favorites where Ave. Q, Anti Gravity, and of course, Margaret Cho.

I think Chicago 2006 did an amazing job, especially given the time in which they had to prepare and the looming competition of the Outgames. I competed in Sydney and had a great time, but for very different reasons. For me, the experience of traveling to such a great location to compete in an international competition half way around is what I remember the most. The Opening Ceremonies were also great, and I will NEVER forget the Closing Party at Fox Studios. All that said, the soccer venue was horrendous in Sydney, the Closing Ceremonies were terrible, and the events were just as dispersed as they were in Chicago. Chicago (from my perspective) nailed down the sports competition - it was arguably one of the best run international soccer competitions in which I have competed. Sure, there were aspects that Chicago had trouble with - the audio at the Opening Ceremony was insufficient, an athlete's village would have been a GREAT idea and brought us all closer together, and yes, not having as many international competitors certainly changed the dynamic. But Chicago was a success... they will be the first Gay Games to turn a profit. My only hope is that the world will reunite in Cologne in 2010 -- in the mean time, I wish all of the competitors at Outgames the best of luck, and the opportunity to have as enjoyable week as I did. 24,000 gay athletes... we've come along way.

SBS, you gave a speech…what was the time limit set? Why is it so hard to admit that it was way to long? It was not enjoyable and the pace was off the entire night. Many people left before it was over which included participants and those that paid. From a participant point, I was there by 5 (as instructed) and left immediately after Margaret Cho. I purchased tickets for my partner and friends; they arrived at 7:45 and were bored to tears when I met up with them. Collectively we decided to leave because we could not stomach another interpretive dance.
Comments that I heard varied from the choreography at best were High School level. Way to much interpretive dancing which was difficult to “interpret”, speeches were lengthy and spoiled the pace of the program etc.
Now from previous posts you become extremely defensive about the Gay Games…yes, you did put in a large amount of time into running them and it is/was appreciated. Constructive criticism is not a bad thing. One of your funnier posts on OS was a comment on CrewBevo defending Crews food and you commented that you expected he would because he had too…I guess the same goes for you as well.

What can I say as a 56 year old gay man? It was simply awesome, blew my mind how beautiful and talented the upcoming generation of gay men and women are coming along, so courageous and proud.

LOL! I feel the same way about ID, but I think we're both missing the point: it's the artist's interpretation that's supposed to matter.

But if that's the case, why can't they do it in the privacy of their own home? :confused:

See you at the opera! :cool:

Interesting. Not Fooled, why not have the balls to post under your regular name, rather than creating (TODAY) this psuedo name. At any rate....

With regards to the opening ceremoines, I agree, I thought most of the speaches were WAY TOO LONG, WAY TOO POLITICAL, and if it were up to me, would not have happened at all. But I enjoyed the other elements a great deal. Had you stayed long enough, you might have enjoyed other parts as well, even if it cut into bar/party time.

As far as CREW food versus T's food, I like both. However, I prefer T's a great deal more. This doesn't mean CREW has bad food, or that the owner of CREW cannot post he likes their food better....lol.

Exactly.

[ July 26, 2006, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: softballstud ]

I think Chicago 2006 did a great job given the time they had to do it - just 30 months. I would have liked to see what they could have done with the full five years.

Unfortunately, bar/party time was over after standing in 96 degree heat for hours …but I enjoy your assumption and expected it. Is it hard for you to fathom that people may be tired and just over the BS that they wanted to leave…why do you have to associate that with drinking or attending a party? Just more ramble and excuse making.

I can hardly contain myself from laughing out loud about your comment of “having balls” to post. What prompted my post, shrouded or not, came because of your comment “I heard there was a limit” and “not sure what could have been done” instead of just stating there was a limit or there wasn’t. Instead you want to comment as if you had nothing to do with the logistics of the games and have done so all along. At least KevinB posts freely his opinion whether agreeable or not and continues to even after the fact. None of your posts indicate that you were associated with the games and have always been from the “oh I’ve heard” or “from what others have told me” when all along you knew exactly what was going on behind the scenes and in some instances pulling those political strings you speak of.

Please don’t take my post that I did not enjoy other aspects of the games. My sport was very well run and I am glad that I participated. I do know several people who worked extremely hard over the last couple of years and for that as I said before is/was appreciated by many. What I don’t agree with is people posting items which are half truths or deceptions. If I wanted smoke blown up my ass…I would sit at home on my couch, naked, with a short length of tube and a cigarette.

P.S I am also in agreement with Cyd.

I'm a bit disappointed that people feel this need to sit around and give grades to the games. You had a bunch of volunteers pull together a massive event at the last minute. Some things went well, some things didn't. !#$% happens. So let's talk about what went well and what didn't so it can improve for next time.

There are certain areas where it's fair game. To grade a professional sports team's draft, yeah. But to consciously give grades to people who are volunteers seems rather petty and QUITE unnecessary, and really kind of mean. But that's the tone that's made this the first time I've posted to this site for months and will probably keep me from posting for several more months. Oh well.

"If I wanted smoke blown up my ass…I would sit at home on my couch, naked, with a short length of tube and a cigarette."

EEEWWWW.

NotFooled ... I'm having a hard time understanding your rants above, but ... just so you know ... I know who softballstud is and while he is a great volunteer with the Gay Games (there were 2,000 of those), he does not "pull political strings" (whatever that means). He likely heard from someone like me or another Board member that attempts were made to shorten some speeches and not all such attempts were successful (obviously). Not sure any of this matters but it is weird that, all of a sudden, obvious long-time posters are creating new screen names for this discussion. It's not like you said anything terrible so the shrouding (your word) seems a bit unnecessary.

Come out, come out!!

:-)

Kevin

"But to consciously give grades to people who are volunteers seems rather petty and QUITE unnecessary, and really kind of mean."

Uh, this is a gay website, after all. I think this kind of thing is required, yes? LOL

Speaking of grades - there are more of YOUR grades now posted on our website. Just missing a few sports results now (damn the people who finished running sports and then took 4 days of vacation without sending us the results).

Visit http://www.gaygameschicago.org/sports/home.php

I am in total agreement with Spartan here... this was the point I was trying to make earlier. These were volunteers and people who were dedicated to (hopefully) deeper themes than bar time, and fabulousness of event.
I would have (and did) stay all night long to catch the Mom and Dad who came down to the athlete's area of the stands right in front of us to cry for joy with their gay daughter who they were, "so proud of!" I would have endured much higher temperatures on the field running in just to see one more mature athlete looking up into the stands of screaming, cheering fans and begin to well up tears at the sight and sound of being recognized for maybe the very first time in 70+ years for who they really are.
Yes, maybe it it our perceived "gay duty" to bitch about things but that everyday stereotype doesn't hold a candle to what "Passing the Flame On" meant to me and many other athletes who don't have the luxury of being that free. Speaking for those of us who have to make it work everyday in those "red states" we were damned proud of the accomplishments made by folks who are fortunate enough to make it work everyday in those big cities where you get to worry about the real important stuff like interpretive dance and it's length.
Again folks, not defensive (nothing to defend) just want to make sure that the others who were inspired more than tired get their opinion in here too.
Thanks so much for keeping this forum up and current for ALL of us to experience. You guys at Outsports are doing a hell of a job for the ENTIRE community!
Sincerely,


[Post modified for quote format - Outsports moderator]

[ July 26, 2006, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: m1 ]

Sorry, I disagree. This was an event with a budget in the millions, with loads of corporate sponsors, and it deserves as much critiquing as any other. The Olympics also relies on tons of volunteers and no one would say they are immune from criticism.

And if you volunteer (which I have done for many events in the past), I expect you to do your job and not just have me happy you're there. Some volunteers were incredible, like the guy who cooked hamburgers and hot dogs at flag football. Some at other events were well-meaning but incompetent, and the athletes at those sports suffered -- those volunteers shouldn't get a pass.

Everyone has an opinion and everyone is free to post theirs here or at the Gay Games site. We also welcome first-person articles from athletes, like the terrific one we posted today from a marathon runner.

These Games rank as a success given the amount of $ they raised in a short time and all they had to do in a condensed period.

[ July 26, 2006, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: Jim at Outsports ]

Well put, Jim, and there were also admission and registration fees charged to the spectators and athletes, no? Finances require accountability and constructive criticism is one means of holding folks accountable. I hope it doesn't happen here, but I can recall MANY "community events" in SF, including the Pride Parade and Festival, that suffered severe lapses in accountability over the years, in which directors and employees embezzled and absconded with monies raised from all of us.

I don't think there's anything wrong with grading an event like this. It was the biggest gay event of the year and attracted lots of media attention. Your assumption is that a grade is a bad thing. The average grade seems to be a B/B-, with some giving A's. That's good!

Okay, let's clarify -- no, I would certainly hope that I don't think that grades are a bad thing, since I give them (among other tasks) for a living. But I also provide a detailed description for what somebody needs to accomplish to earn a specific grade. I do NOT, repeat, NOT assign random and arbitrary letters of the alphabet to assignments.

Secondly, it's students, and NOT volunteers to whom I assign these grades. Jim, just how on earth does assigning random and arbitrary letters of the alphabet to people hold ANYBODY accountable for ANYTHING? If you want to hold people accountable for things, talk to their corporate sponsors.

We're going to have to agree to disagree. I think that this article was an exercise in rudeness and disrespect to people who pulled off a monster job. Accountability and rudeness don't have to be synonymous.

[ July 26, 2006, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: SoFlaSpartan ]

FYI: I did not grade the event, though I did write an overview.

I gave a "C" grade because Chicago didn't seem to learn from Sydney's mistakes. I've been to four Gay Games so far and every city will have its unique challenges for organizers, competitors, and spectators alike. To me, a "c" grade means average - I've been to better and I've been to worse Gay Games - I had fun in spite of organizer's efforts and not really because of them so a "c" feels appropriate and hardly 'arbitrary'

In Amsterdam, they relied on a combination of public transportation and special shuttles for events like volleyball that were farther away from "Friendship Village," the central hub.

Compared to that, Sydney's events were too dispersed and it was hard to find out who was playing where and when.

I was sad to discover that Chicago was pretty much the same way. From the website, it looked like Millenium Park in Chicago was going to be a similar type of centralized meeting point and a place for athletes to congregate as Friendship Village was in A'dam - it was labeled "the Hub" on the online map but all three times I went down there, I couldn't find anything going on. I wanted to root on my friends playing volleyball and basketball and spent so long tracking down the schedules and venues that I missed both teams compete on my only free day.

In going forward, German organizers of the 2010 event need to work with public transportation instead of trying to rely solely upon it with special shuttles picking up the slack where public busses and trains make travel between venues awkward.

They should also loose the PDF files on their websites. I realize it's easier for them to post things that way, but from a user's standpoint it is tedious to use from public computers between games and the documents are unsearchable as text. Also, the website should be updated at specific intervals throughout the day. So many people have web access on mobile phones these days. T-Mobile is a German company and they should be one of the first sponsors lined up for the next Gay Games - hopefully the organizers will ask for technology assistance instead of just cash.

Organizers should also have a centralized location where people can go and get match and game results; find out who is playing where and when and be able to find an athlete by name and sport instead of just identifying them by team on some outdated roster.

Organizers might also consider having different "tracks" for the cultural events to help people get the most out of such a large event. Every major industry conference I've ever been to has at least two tracks where presentations are grouped by theme. It makes sense to do something similar - they could brand it with a rainbow flag so that each color includes a group of athletic games and cultural activities. One track might follow the cheer competition, dancesports, ballroom dancing and include arts presentations with a similar focus like a screening of Billy Elliot or something. Golf, tennis and sailing seem to appeal to a similar type of spectator as do other sports. Organizers have four years to figure out a good mix of suggestions for each track. In this way, spectators with only one or two days to devote to the games could maximize their efforts with a mix of sport and cultural activities and walk away with a well rounded experience.

Hopefully the next organizing committe will learn lessons from Chicago and create the best Gay Games ever!

This was my 5th Gay games so I have something to gage against when grading GGVII.

Opening Ceremony -©
Positives were rainbow flag of athletes, Margaret Cho, and Fireworks. However the speaches on oppression were two much and were not evenly balanced with uplifting entertainment.

Closing Ceremony -( Wrigley Field is a more cozy atmosphere than Soldier field given the numbers. I liked that the ceremony started early 3PM compared to previous games. It was only two hours and more upbeat than the opening.

Registration - (A-) I had no problems with the process on Friday night. Making changes to my events prior to the games were handled efficiently. One change I would like to see is to be able to change events online without having to send an email.

Sports and Venues (C+)

My running events 5K, 10K and 1/2 marathon went pretty well on the public asphalt path. There were a few people on bikes but not enough to create a problem. If the number of runners were double however it could have been a problem. Hydration on the course was plentiful. I heard there were some issues with T&F and some other sports. My biggest issue was how far some of the venues were. I had to travel 75-80 minutes on the EL to see events like Diving and Tennis from the host hotel.

Results and Website (C+)

I realize how difficult it is to post results with a volunteer staff especially after the games have ended. However here it is 5 days after the last Track and Field events and the posting is still not complete. Events like the swimming which use (Hy-Tek meet master) and road races which use (Champion Chip timing)are examples of quick result reporting. Other events should look into adopting a more automated process.


Overall I rate the Games a (B-)

I certainly can't grade the Chicago games as I was not there, although I will be grading the Montreal games which I am attending.

What I find amazing is that some people feel the games should not be graded, critiqued or otherwise judged. It seems these people have been exposed to a little too much of the George Bush school of thought.

This year more than any it is imperative that we hold both these cities accountable for their games. They went into these knowing they would split the gay community and compete for participants. Therfore they have a responsibility to deliver what they sold.

The real cost of these games is yet to be determined. Yes both may break even but what I have not heard about is how Chicago faired by way of economic impact to the city. Did hotels sell out? We are already hearing stories from Montreal about hotels losing money because they blocked off rooms for our community and we didn't show up. In the long run gay games or out games will not matter if no cities want either!

So go ahead and grade the games otherwise we will lose them. I will be back here to grade Montreal and hold them to a high standard given the turmoil that has surrounded these games.

Tall Bunny wrote: "I gave a "C" grade because Chicago didn't seem to learn from Sydney's mistakes. I've been to four Gay Games so far and every city will have its unique challenges for organizers, competitors, and spectators alike. To me, a "c" grade means average - I've been to better and I've been to worse Gay Games - I had fun in spite of organizer's efforts and not really because of them so a "c" feels appropriate and hardly 'arbitrary'."

Rousing vote of support here - this guy had fun "in spite our efforts." I have to say that this one phrase is probably the shittiest I've heard from anyone on this website.

For all the talk about "learning from mistakes," aside from some key FGG representatives who helped with sports, there were none of the Sydney, Amsterdam nor New York key organizers available or willing to assist or guide these Gay Games (a few exceptions to this but mostly occasional phone calls - no "consultant" like arrangements). This process burns people out, I suspect, and being associated with previous financial losses likely makes people even more hesitant to comment. Relatively anonymous potshots like the uninformed ones here also likely embittered people who are less thick skinned than me (yes, there are some "informed" potshots here also). In theory, the FGG should ensure that this memory is not lost, but practically, each city is very different and each of the past three models has been significantly different.

Aside from some statistics available from Sydney, there are no significant statistics or financial information available from either New York nor Amsterdam. A few of the New Yorkers and Sydneysiders gave us feedback when we asked. Keep in mind that these Gay Games were designed from the beginning to be financially successful without huge government handouts so most of the feedback we have solicited was around things like "what extra expenses did you have at the end that we might not have thought of?" not "how do we keep Tall Bunny from having to travel too far between venues."

By the way, according to most people, the Chicago system of "Sports Villages" was much less spread out than in Sydney or New York. I've been to Syney - the Olympic facilities are MUCH further from the downtown hub than any of the Chicago Gay Games facilities (except for two of our smaller sports - mountain biking and rowing). An event of this nature simply can't be all put in one mile by mile square given venue requirements.

Attending four Gay Games doesn't make someone an expert in running a Gay Games. Grade all you want, but drop the potshots and please be reasonable in your expectations.

Kevin

[ July 27, 2006, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: KevinB ]

Tall Bunny -- there WAS color coding of events - both online and in the printed program.

Tall Bunny wrote: "Organizers might also consider having different 'tracks' for the cultural events ... grouped by theme ... brand it with ... color ... .. Organizers have four years to figure out a good mix of suggestions for each track ... well-rounded experience."

Organizations, promoters and cities don't plan cultural events four years in advance, and the Gay Games learned from Sydney that we don't organize these events ourselves or we risk diverting resources from the core elements.

There were about 150 affiliated events in these Gay Games, and about 125 of them were finalized by the local planners in the last 60 days before the Gay Games (or at least communicated to us formally). The info was presented online and in print in color coded tracks, as well as by date. Additionally, organizers promoted themselves. We understand that with very few exceptions, these affiliated events did very, very well - many sold out if they were ticketed.

You couldn't go into a gay bar or a Gay Games venue last week without tripping over these primary, sports & cultural program books. But if you didn't ever see them, I understand some are actually selling them on e-bay now as collectibles so you could buy one.

Kevin Boyer

Maybe you're not as thick skinned as you perceive yourself to be because what you consider a 'potshot' directed at you was just an expression of how I feel about this year's event and was in no way directed at anyone in particular.

Obviously you think it's unreasonable for me to want to get to various venues to support my friends and past-teammates. I, however went to this year's Gay Games with the expectation that I could indeed get around in a timely manner. It took close to two hours to get to the track and field event after my last volleyball game and if they weren't running late, I would have missed my buddy's last race of the day. I didn't fare so well the next day trying to go from the Navy Pier over to the Basketball venue - it took so long to catch the bus and get over there that I missed my buddy's game.

Was there a faster way to get between venues? I'll never know - I did ask several people who claimed to be locals but there was never an integrated transit/Gay Games map that I saw. The maps on the website weren't very print friendly and only vaguely showed venue and street info - not public transit. IF they do exist they were the best kept secret of the week because they weren't posted on the web or on a wall or door at all of the venues I made it to. Even the Chicago Sun Times ran a story about how locals found it difficult to be spectators at the Gay Games so obviously my experience is not too unique.

I also had the expectation that I could get at least one Gay Games t-shirt in a tall size. With so many taller athletes participating in Basketball, volleyball, rowing and other sports I found it incredulous that no one thought to order at least one style in a range of tall sizes. Maybe the financial concerns about cost were allowed to overshadow the ideal of 'inclusion' but to me, it felt like one more situation where I was excluded. To her credit, the gal at the Gay Games store was very sympathetic and she suggested I check the website in 3 to 4 weeks. I'm used to this situation and I don't take it personally so it didn't ruin my time. I did buy a visor and some non-apparel items and I managed to show my team spirit that way.

Overall, I had a great time partying with my buddys and that fun time we had together was, to me, in spite of the organizer's efforts because I thought they were organizing a sporting event not a party weekend. I realize it's a complex project to produce an event of this magnatude - that's why I gave it passing marks. I saw some members of Team Cologne in Chicago & I hope they took notes.

I did see those books at the bars and stores in the Boy's Town area - I thumbed through one briefly and it looked more like a souvenier item than an information directroy so I put it back.

I just remember my only other Gay Games experience, going to NYC in 2004 to check out hockey. That was at Coney Island. Talk about a long trip!

There is, unfortunately, so much rancor around this, that it's been impossible to tell what criticisms are in good faith and which are ... less so. I've seen too many criticisms that seem to come from a perspective of scolding rather than a good faith effort to learn. I know the difference in tone between constructive criticism vs. bitching.

"I hope the Cologne people were taking notes" is scolding.

Jake: My review was w/o rancor and was generally positive. The lack of intl. athletes was not Chicago's fault and they should be commended for pulling it off. As for others', that's what the board is for -- everyone has an opinion.

TallBunny writes: "Was there a faster way to get between venues? I'll never know - I did ask several people who claimed to be locals but there was never an integrated transit/Gay Games map that I saw. The maps on the website weren't very print friendly and only vaguely showed venue and street info - not public transit. IF they do exist they were the best kept secret of the week because they weren't posted on the web or on a wall or door at all of the venues I made it to."

This is my fourth Gay Games in a row, and I found the travel to/from venues in Chicago to be about the easiest and least time-consuming of them all. In my opinion, this was because almost all of the venues in Chicago were: 1) closer to the center of town/each other, and easier to get to by mass transit than in the other cities (okay, NY was good too.. but not in all cases, e.g. bowling), and 2) the info on where/how to get to all the venues was readily available in: a) the big glossy Games Guide, the two smaller glossy pamphlets on sports and culture, and c) the printed hand-outs that I got at registration... and this last piece actually listed the exact subway line or bus number to take, and the station/stop to get out at, for each venue. wink

Some of the places that were WAY out of town at the prior three Gay Games included: bowling and tennis in Sydney, Figure Skating and Swimming in Amsterdam, and Bowling in NY (which was held New Jersey!) to name just a few. eek!

Plus, I thought that the info in the Chicago Games materials described in 2a), and c) above, combined with a brief review of a CTA system fold-out map made it relative child's play to figure out how to get from one venue to another. I stayed at the Palmer House in the Loop, and competed in Bowling, and also went to see Figure Skating, Dancesport and Swimming. I simply circled the stops I needed for each of those places right on the CTA map and I had everything I needed to get from point A to point B with ease.

Yes, it took some thinking, and a little advance planning, and knowing how to read a map... case in point: the Chicago Games info/directions for getting to Swimming suggested taking the #4 bus southbound all the way to the pool, but that looked like it might be a slow and onerous way to go, especially if I was coming from the Loop, so I checked the CTA map and realized that the Green Line subway to Garrison followed by a transfer to a Westbound #55 bus, would probably be much quicker. And indeed it was: as soon as I got off the subway the #55 bus pulled up, and it got me to the pool in just a few minutes. I took the same route in reverse to get back to the Loop quite easily. :cool:

I'm told Cologne will be even easier to taverse :cool: , since it is a much smaller city. With some basic map-reading skills (even if they're in German) GGVIII may turn out to be the easiest Games to get around in of them all!

Tall Bunny wrote: "Obviously you think it's unreasonable for me to want to get to various venues to support my friends and past-teammates."

LOL. Yes, that's correct. Our goal was to keep people from supporting their friends.

Come on folks ... there are always going to be plenty of things that go wrong in an event like this and we're fine with comment and criticism. Silly exaggerations like this don't seem to serve much purpose except for drama.

[ July 28, 2006, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: KevinB ]

Sorry if that came off as a little over the top Kevin. I may be prone to hyperbole but I assure you I wasn't trying to be overly dramatic - my main point remains: GG7 seemed to do a good job of taking care of athletes and participants at the expense of handling spectator issues. From a specator standpoint the last Bingham Cup in NYC gets way lower marks from me in every criteria. I mention this to provide context and not to stir up more trouble on this board because I'll deal with IGRAB directly on those issues.

Kevin! Wonderful to see you here participating on the this board. I've read some of the messages here, and while I have some comments I'd like to share my first task is to thank you for taking on TEAMNJ. This was the first Gay Games that TEAMNJ has made an appearance and we came to Chicago with 191 athletes! Kevin was covering as a rep for Team New Yirk and Team Philadelphia when little ol' New Joisey popped out.

Also, I have to say incredible job! Let me preference what I'm about to say as I'm a professional in the event management industry for the NJ Convention Center. Chicago Gay Games was in my opinion an event on a scale that rivals events held at McCormick Place which I went to visit and talk with my industry counterparts. The sheer number of sports to be organized, the level of logistics and the coordination with a city of Chicago... I could only imagine. I see huge events often enough and there is no comparison.

People have already made comments about the Opening Ceremonies (Was JAM the producer?), facilities and some snafus in sports (badminton had it's issues). I think constructive suggestions for Cologne Gay Games VIII will be helpful and appreciated. I loved the suggestion of the Athletes Village I read somewhere.

Chet

Perhaps an issue is the financial cost of competing, bursury programs, and encouraging younger people to attend. Advocate article

As a community, we need to think about ways of making events like the Gay Games more accessible to more people. With the next Outgames and Gay Games in Europe, it may be cost prohibitive for North American gay youth (heck, it's cost prohibitive to me, and I'm a middle-aged adult who has never been to Continental Europe).

Perhaps because there are now more events more often, that will help keep the Gay Games/Outgames at the "top of mind." People won't forget about these competitions in the intervening 4 years, and thus groups can do fundraising on a more regular basis. And maybe even businesses can help sponsor teams going to the Games just as they sponsor local sports leagues and teams. We need to be creative, as this is a Movement that is important to the future of our community.

On the other hand, if young people (and some middle-aged adults wink ) are having trouble financing one trip every 4 years, how are they going to go to events every year or every two years?

Chet - thanks for your commments. One of the most satisfying parts of our work over the past years was the interaction with local organizers like you - people every bit as committed to LGBT sports and the Gay Games as the folks in Chicago. It's good to see Team New Jersey with its own identity instead of being split between NYC and Philly - I think that will help all of the LGBT athletes in your state for years to come. So congrats right back!

Kevin

Because there would be more events in more places, so there would be a better chance that there is one closer to you. For example, next year there will be a Continental Games in Calgary. Much closer than Copenhagen or Cologne for North Americans. Europeans, who find travel to Chicago or Montreal prohibitive, have Copenhagen and Cologne (and wherever the next Eurogames is held) to look forward to. There is also a planed Australasian games, which presumably would be convenient for people in Australia and Asia. More events=more accessiblity.

That sounds more like what happens with the Olympics. In non-Olympic years there are various championships that each sport has plus regional events. Then every 4 years the Olympics are held and pretty much everyone shows up. If that's happening with gay sports, great. But it's not -- the Gay Games and Outgames are still fighting it out to be king of the block.

There was a great athlete's village in 1990 in Vancouver, my first Gay Games. It was at the site of the Expo there and was THE place to be each night -- bars, food, 2 dance floors, a common meeting area, pin-trading etc. I have always wished other Games used the same approach.

Kevin, did you guys really "learn" from anyone? Organizations, promoters and cities DO plan these kind of events well in advance of multi-sport games. The Olympics is a prime model to follow. It looks like Outgames is following that model with some success. Why wouldn't FGG follow the same model? Are they still pissed because the Olympics made them cease using the word "Olympic" in their name? The Olympics was just protecting their trademark rights.

I'm still trying to figure out what the schism was all about. Outgames in my opinion is starting off to a rousing success. Gay Games failed in pulling off a class event for gay and lesbian athletes and in my opinion FGG is to blame for the whole thing.

I want to go back and research why FGG felt the need to pull the plug on Montreal. I hope there was a VERY good reason. Otherwise it looks like it may be time to clean house at FGG. The Outgames environment (from afar) looks more like a multi-sport event than anything I've seen coming from the gay and lesbian community. Heck, they are even posting results on Day 1 of competition, a must have for any event that claims to be a sporting event.

You're making a judgment on the Outgames after ONE DAY? Even if you were there, that would still be complete nonsense. Wait for the entire event to unfold, at least.

And to think that the FGG would not "follow the Olympic model" because they're having a cow over the Olympics taking the word Olympics out of "Gay Olympics" -- something MUCH MORE than protecting a trademark, by the way -- is silly.

[ July 30, 2006, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: FireCharlieManuelNow ]

Okay, maybe it is a little premature. But from what I've seen (pictures, results, organization, etc.) far exceeds Gay Games offering. In fact, when I went to the Outgames website it had the look and feel of an Olympics style website (and that's more than the appearance). I checked out the organizational structure, the venue plan, the evironment plan, the non-sport related events. It follows the Olympic model very nicely. Say what you want about it but the IOC and their model is the best multi-sport model around.

If Outgames fails, I'll eat my words. However, if the impressions from athletes and spectators are good then maybe we have a new "game" in town.

All I'm saying is that there appears to be some dysfunctional issues at FGG that may spell the demise of Gay Games unless something is worked out.

It is way premature to compare. We don't know how the actual sports will come off. For example, men's basketball in Montreal has a pitiful 5 teams (3 from France, 1 from Britain and 1 from Montreal) -- why bother? All the best teams went to Chicago.

What`s been interesting to me the last two days here in Montreal is how many people are talking about how this compares to Chicago. I was asked no less than 10 times today which one I thought was better (mostly, I think, because so few people went to both, and people are curious to hear what I think when they find out I was in Chicago as well).

I may compare a couple things in my notes, but I`m certainly going to save my final assessment of Montreal, and any comparisons to Chicago, until next Saturday.

Rbear wrote: "Kevin, did you guys really "learn" from anyone? Organizations, promoters and cities DO plan these kind of events well in advance of multi-sport games. "

The first sentence is unnecessary, but sadly in concert with many of the potshots in this thread.

My comments were specific to a previous comment about cultural events - events NOT core to the Gay Games, but additional events that are added to the program - parties, social gatherings, photo exhibits - as this is what a previous poster had said he felt should have been laid in color-coded, themed tracks out with four years of planning (uh, we had 2.5 years by the way but not really relevant). Those are the things that are not planned four years in advance. Most weren't even planned a year in advance. We know this from experience - with 150 affiliated events, I would estimate perhaps 125 got us their final details 60 days or less before the start of the Gay Games.

Kevin

Jim, you're right. It is premature. Maybe I got caught up in the moment after I started getting results and photos on Day One from the Outgames website. I'm a Games junkie and follow the Olypmics and Commonwealth Games pretty heavily. I dissect Olympic bids to see what we can learn from and do better in San Antonio with our own LOC. I guess when I see something that actually resembles a Games experience in the G/L community I will gravitate to judging it prematurely.

One interesting question regarding help. Did Gay Games Chicago ever ask or consider asking help from the Chicago Olympic Bid Committee? It would have been a great partnership and would have given the Chicago Olympic Bid something they desperately need - proven experience at helping manage a multi-sport event. Chicago did make the short list for US Candidate City but I can tell from the chatter they are still a dark horse in the race. SF has the edge. Having the support of the Chicago BC could have given Gay Games Chicago some much needed logistics support.

You actually bring up a good point to consider regarding this situation. My guess is that most people followed the old beaten path and decided to compete in Gay Games instead of a fledgling organization that was born from a division between FGG and the Montreal OC.

The question becomes which to support - an old legend that seems to have some baggage (my perception from afar) or a new kid on the block that may have fresh new ideas? In other words, what's the real problem here? Why was the gay and lesbian sports community left the situation that happened in 2006? What does it spell for the future?

I guess I'll have to wait for Cyd's reports to come back and give us a more objective opinion.

BTW, Cyd (and Jim during Gay Games) thanks for giving us a behind the scenes look at the events. Both of you keep up the good work. I wouldn't know what to do without my Outsports fix for the day.

Kevin,

I have not met you personally, but first off the idea you are actually responding to anyone on this board is commendable (as someone who worked in the movie biz and worked with publicity details all the time I would NOT have advised you to do so...LOL). However, I think it's important to realize a lot of people were dissapointed no matter what the circumstances the committee endured to put the games on. No one will ever know the entire backstory of the work that was done or the obstacles that were overcome. But, personally, as someone who tried to rally friends from all over the country to attend I was just as dissapointed -- even taking into account the work that was done.

In terms of my own sport, I know the guys who do the yearly basketball tourney at UIC. I like them very much and they always run a good tournament and in terms of officiating and scheudling the Games were no different (a far cry from Amsterdamn or Sydney). However, why on earth the event was held in a non-airconditioned gym in the middle of the Chicago summer was insane. If there were financial conditions neeeded to access a better facility, I am telling you there a lot of rich basketball fags out there who would have ponied up some money if the word got out. The fact that no one went to the hospital from heat exhaustion is stunning (and I'm not being dramatic).

Unlike Jim, I thought Amsterdamn was the best of three opening ceremonies I've been to. It was stylish, modern and entertaining. Sydney was overrated until what occured in Chicago this past month which has now made it legendary. I won't dwell too much on what happened in Chicago, but there must have been a serious breakdown on the committe for people to not say, "Um, don't gold lame sashes seem like a bad idea? Shouldn't we incorporate more stuff into the event to welcome our international guests? Shouldn't someone introduce cultural icons like George Takai and Greg Lougainis singularly so they can get some individual applause?" Those aren't not a pot shots Kevin, those are items that should come up in board meetings. My biggest fear walking back from Soldier Field that night was that the international people who were there (who I constantly apologized too on behalf of my country as they walked out -- sorry it's true) would be so turned off, that they would hardly consider a return to a Gay Games in the states again. This is the USA. We are the entertainment captial of the world! There are hundreds of gay atheletes who could have contributed to the planning of this from NY to LA to SF to you name it. And after checking out photos of what Montreal did, it wouldn't have been that hard to top them (and on a side note, I've lost a ton of respect for Martina for being there instead of in Chicago).

And this leads to another point. I know talent is expensive. I know it's hard to lock people down in the summer. However, if the Games are going to try and grow with people UNDER 30 it would nice if there was a performer besides Margaret Cho who even twentysomething Americans recognize. Don't want to dwell on it, but it's just a fact. If the Games are not careful, the average age will keep getting older, older and older. Somehow I am still under the median age for the games when I thought I would be AT it after Sydney. Its like the Games are mirroring Circuit Parties scarily enough.

I have only two other criticisms: the athelete's village and the presentation/marketing materials. There should have been something more than just the ballroom at the Hilton for atheletes to meet -- even taking to account costs, rain threats, etc. it may have been small, but Sydney had a part of a downtown park where you could meet people and there were booths for exhibitors in a central location. Perhaps something fell through with a sponsor (if I was gay.com I would have made this my centerpoint sponsorship), but it really made the games more spread out then they were (weren't the medal ceremonies supposed to take place at Millenium Park at one point?)

The presentation/marketing/design materials (something I have spent most my life doing) were very, very dissapointing. The best thing I saw was the Subway car ads and the Sidewalk large posters downtown (the chicago cityscape image). Everything else (including the website which has the worst menu bar layout I have seen since 1998) was subpar. I have seen the pictures of the wave of banners that greet people at Montreal's airport and the registration center and it breaks my heart. These may not have seemed important in the grand scheme of things, but they are what participants and sponsors (!!!!) remember the most. My lasting image of Amsterdamn was turning every corner and seeing signage EVERYWHERE and feeling like I was at a true event. Granted, that most likely put them in the hole financially, but there should have been more and it should have been better. I still can't forget a marketing rep from the games coming to Long Beach for a sign up party a year and a half ago and giving her my card and offering to help in ANY way. I even E-mailed her and never heard back.

That all said, there were some great things that people -- including Montreal attendees only -- should remember. The people were incredibly inviting. I would hold hands, rest my head on my boyfriend's shoulder and I never heard a snicker, a comment or anything on a crowded Chicago subway.

The transportation to most events was very easy. Anyone complaining didn't deal with Sydney's spread out games (where I never had a chance to see one other event other than my own). The fact I got to see Water Polo, Soccer and Flag Football and still make my own games was fantastic.

The closing ceremonies were much, much, much better than Sydney or Amsterdamn. Almost no one showed up at Amsterdamn's which basically was just a repeat performance by the Weather Girls. Sydney's was at a park, went on forever and if there was entertainment no one remembers it (plus, everyone left that park to go back to their hotels to return for the closing party at the SAME complex). She may not be old school, but Cyndi's take on True Colors was wonderful (I was skeptical when I read it in the program) and pictures of it were all over the web.

Most importantly, nothing can take away the amazing job Chicago did with sponsorship. It may sound crass or capitalist, but there is an issue of mainstream acceptance of Gay men and women that is so important to the overall political movement. The fact that Canada had to give $5 million (or that's what's reported) to Montreal to my knowledge the US, Illinois or city of Chicago provided no financial resources is astounding. To have major brand companies like Wallgreens, Kraft, ESPN, Gatorade and American Airlines contribute to the Games was something everyone on the Chicago team should be so proud of. Could any of us imagined that 10 or 12 years ago? Nah, me either. Let's hope Cologne can do it as well.

Hey Jockgroove. A constructive post, but just want to make a couple of points in regard to a couple of specific comments you made.

Martina - Why Montreal? She was interviewed about that here in Montreal and it basically came down to two things. Silly as it sounds - but when you think of it perfectly sensible - the first reason - Montreal invited her, and up until that point she had not been invited to Chicago. Secondly and more importantly according to her was the Human Rights conference aspect of the Outgames, something I still think a lot of people are completely missing the boat on, was very critical to her. She felt that by merging a sport event with a Rights conference that more good would come of it and she strongly believed that.

The other point you make about corporate sponsorship and the great job Chicago did in that regard - I agree. But you almost make it sound like the 5 million+ that came from government sources to Montreal as if it was a bail out after coming up short with corporate funds. In fact that government money was there from the very beginning, and Montreal only had to build from there with corporate sponsors. That really is more a case of Canada being a different country and we do things differently up here. We are much more of a socialist country with higher taxes that we expect to be used to support events like these. I know each year Pride Toronto gets well over $100,000 from government sources as do other big festivals like Caribana. The same is true in most Western European countries. In the USA it is all about low taxes so there are not a lot of governemnt funds available for projects like this so BIG corporate sponsorships are required to pull off large scale events like this. The over the top corporate sponsorships in Atlanta at the 1996 Olympics - which were clearly needed under the USA model of funding events like this - was looked upon by much of the rest of the world as crass commercialism at its worst.

So I think it is very much a case of operating under different systems and I would suggest it would be a mistake if you tried to apply the American model on other countries, just as the reverse of that would be true.