I'm hoping that water polo players, coaches and managers will be able to use this thread to have a dialogue that will help them decide what to do in 2006.

I'll start off the thread by posting the results of a survey I conducted recently, as well as the outcome for my team. I'm interested to hear your own interpretation of the results of the survey, and/or your reaction to our plan of action here in Montreal.

Here's the report of the survey of worldwide gay water polo teams:

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Dear members and interested parties of lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans-identified and allied (lgbta) water polo

As you all know, the past several months have been a very tumultuous time in the lgbta sports movement with athletes world-wide facing two competing lgbta multi-sport events in the summer of 2006. As far as water polo is concerned, both Rendez-Vous Montreal 2006 (RVM2006) and Gay Games VII (GG7) have made plans to include it in their programs and are roughly identical with respect to cost and facilities.

Prior to the split between RVM2006 and the Federation of Gay Games (FGG), we here at Montreal’s lgbta water polo team were very much looking forward to being the “host team” for Gay Games VII and having the chance to defend our Gay Games VI silver medal in front of a home crowd.

However, the rupture between RVM2006 and the FGG, the subsequent awarding of GG7 to Chicago Games Inc. and the belief that many athletes and teams will be choosing between the two events has forced us to re-evaluate our team plans for 2006.


METHOD
In order for a proper discussion to take place, an email-based census of all of the world’s lgbta water polo teams was conducted Jan 27, 2004. Teams were urged to respond by the end of February. The census was re-sent on a weekly basis to teams from which responses had not yet been received.

The census was sent to the following 15 lgbta water polo clubs:

Australia
Melbourne Glamourhead Sharks
Sydney Stingers

Canada
English Bay Water Polo Club (Vancouver)
Toronto Triggerfish

France
Paris Aquahomo

Netherlands
Gay Swim Amsterdam

United Kingdom
London Out-to-swim

United States of America
Atlanta Rainbow Trout
Chicago RipTide
San Diego Cygnets
San Francisco Tsunami
Seattle Otters
Team New York Aquatics
Washington Wetskins
West Hollywood Aquatics

These 15 clubs sent 16 of the 19 mixed and women’s teams at Gay Games VI (GG6) in Sydney, Australia in 2002 and 17 of the 20 mixed and women’s teams which competed at the most recent International Gay and Lesbian Aquatics Championships (IGLA2003), held in San Francisco, USA in 2003. No contact information was found for the GG6 mixed water polo team from Perth, Australia or for the IGLA2003 women’s water polo team from Oakland, USA. In addition, the GG6 “Team World” women’s water polo team and the IGLA2003 “Team Europe” mixed water polo team were not included in the survey, since they did not represent any club, however many, if not most, of the players in these teams were affiliated to the clubs which were included in the survey. The Montreal club, which sent a mixed team to both GG6 and IGLA2003 as well as contributed members to two GG6 women’s teams, was not included in the survey.

The survey asked whether the club will likely be participating in (a) RVM2006, ( GG7, © both, or (d) neither in each of two different scenarios: GG7 awarded to (1) Los Angeles or (2) Chicago. They were all invited to provide comments to their answer.

Responses were received from all 15 of the surveyed clubs by February 29th, 2004, two days prior to the FGG’s decision on the site of GG7 was made public.



RESULTS

Following are the results of the census. Most comments regarding the possibility of GG7 in Los Angeles have been omitted since Chicago was officially chosen as the host city of GG7 on March 1st, 2004. Comments are edited to protect the identities of the contributing writers and water polo clubs, as no permission was sought to publicize the comments, however it was later felt that these comments were valuable to the exercise at hand, and may be of value to all the teams, and possibly organizing committees, sanctioning bodies, and media.

Please be reminded that this is simply a snapshot of where things stood as of February 2004, and that each team is free to change their mind in the event of any new developments.


Team A:
So far our hearts say that our water polo team will go to Montreal, regardless of whether Chicago or Los Angeles is choosen. For sure we will not be able to attend both Montreal and the Gay Games. It's a question of time and money... For the moment 2006 is too far to have a real decison about our team destination but we can assure you that we'd rather like coming to Montreal then the US again, because IGLA and Gay games are mainly settled in the US. We would like to change our destinations a bit. And we must admit that we feel something special about our fellow Canadian cousins.

Team B:
Based on the responses I have received, we would choose Montreal over the other 2 options. I hope this helps you decide your direction and hopefully we will all enjoy
a great tournament in 2006 at the Claude Robillard Centre!!

Team C:

In answer to question 2 (Re: Chicago and/or Montreal) 4 people said "c" (both), 2 said Montreal, and 2 said Chicago. I have since heard that Chicago is proposing their event to be 2 weeks prior to Montreal's event. I expect that will cause people to choose between
the two.

So, in summery, it sounds like some of our crew is interested in
coming to Montreal - let us know what you decide. (…) it seems that
there is a preference to participate in Montreal's event. It seems there is
lots of support for it, whereas there is very limited support for Chicago.

Team D:

I understand your reluctance to get in the middle of this cat-fight, and caution you to hold out as long as possible. The whole situation is unfortunate, but looking at the bright side, it does offer us the opportunity to play more water polo in 2006. (…) We would come to a tournament that you organize in addition to the Gay Games, wherever they are held. Our only concern is that if the tournaments are scheduled for consecutive weekends, it might be very hard for us to make both. If there were two or three weeks between, it would be more appealing to us.

Team E
We would be pleased to attend a tournament in Montreal in 2006. Our first priority will, however, be the Gay Games. If we can coordinate attending both events, assuming they're spaced at least a month apart, we would attend both.

Team F:
We have decided that it is most important to support the Gay Games, wherever they might be, and then possibly try to send a team to Montreal. It is not clear how many of our team could do both, as there is a huge time commitment as well as cost involved in getting so many to an event. It's possible if the Games are in LA, that the chances of us sending a team to Montreal would be a lot higher as it is relatively inexpensive for us to go to LA. Realistically, we probably could round up a small team/ partial team to go to Montreal.

I wish you good luck with the planning. We would definitely be interested in participating in future events.

Team G:
If the Gay Games are in LA we have agreed to support their efforts (…) If that were the case it would be very unlikely that we would go to Montreal too.

It's too bad they couldn't work things out. I was look forward to seeing Montreal.

[Team G made no comment about what the team plan would be if Chicago won the bid to host GG7]


Team H
In the period of the Rendez-Vous, we have our own tournament, a big gay party with sports, culture, etc. So, probably we will choose LA or Chicago, depending on what city wins. But it also depends on the tournament itself, are there enough teams etc...We definitely won't go twice to North America.

Team I:
We will be attending the Official Gay Games event regardless of its location. We will not attend Rendez-Vous Montreal 2006.

While we enjoyed the IGLA event in the 1990's held at Olympique Stadium in Montreal, we feel that we must support the Federation of Gay Games. Supporting another organization would dilute the gay sports movement.

Please let us know when you, À Contre-Courant "IGLOO!" Water polo, are hosting a water polo tournament. Although, it's a long way to travel, we would love to some day return to your beautiful city.

Team J:
I've polled my team members, and the team's overwhelming preference is for the Gay Games rather than the Rendez-Vous event (…) If we find ourselves in a small minority, however, I imagine we would follow the crowd. Only one or two indicated that they would go to both.

I sympathize with your situation, and I hope your poll results give you a clear indication of what to tell the Rendez-Vous organizers. It would have been nice if the FGG and the Montreal organizers could have come to terms.

Team K:
I would like to say that we would be more than happy to participate in the Montreal "Rendez-Vous sport festival. (…) As long as the Montreal "Rendez-Vous" sport festival doesn't cross paths with the Gay Games, we would love to participate in your sports festival...

One week later, Team K changed its mind:

We've decided to attend the Gay Games over the Montreal tournament

Team L
At this time, we will target the Gay Games as our premier destination. We are not a team that travels to compete so once a year is already pushing it. If the team's culture changes about competing more, then my answer to #1 (choosing between LA and Montreal) would be C (attend both events) since traveling to LA from here is simple. My question to you: will the Toronto and Montreal teams be competing in Gay Games? I hope so.... [Team L had no comment of the team’s plans if Chicago won the bid to host GG7]


Team M
Our intention is that we'll definitely go to North America in 2006, to participate in whichever event has the strongest water polo competition. Because of the expense we will only participate in the one competition, be it Los Angeles, Chicago or Montreal.
If the Gay Games organise a stronger water polo competition then we'd attend that over Montreal.
It’s a shame that Montreal is no longer the official gay games event as there were a lot of people here who were really looking forward to going to your city.

Team N:
The general consensus is it's too early to give a definite decision but it is more likely that our teams will be going to the competition that has the most competitive (water) polo teams

Team O:
I have talked to my team about their plans for 2006 and in which competition we will be competing in.
The team members have decided that they would:
1. Love to come to Montreal as it is somewhere none of us have been before and we would love the travel and experience of Canada.
2. The team is still committed to play water polo in Montreal in 2006 providing there will be a good number of teams from around the world to compete against as in Sydney 2002 and San Francisco (IGLA) 2003.
3. We are also thinking that if the Montreal and Gay Games are around the same time (within a week or two) we would be looking to play in both events as we have to travel so far for one anyway.
*** So we would be looking to see which event attracts the most teams to compete against to make it worth our while in coming all the way over.



CONCLUSION

Readers are encouraged to make their own conclusions from the comments presented here.

As for us here at Montreal’s IGLOO water polo team, based on these results, we have decided not to rule out attendance at either event for the moment. We have also decided that, at this time, we will not mobilize the team’s ressources of time, energy and experience to the organization of RVM2006’s water polo tournament, however individual members are free to do so on their own.

We have decided that we will be following developments as they happen and will re-evaluate the situation no later than the end of October 2004, at which time we will decide which competition(s) to attend, with our priority based on whether or not the expected level of competition will be adequate to justify our attendance. Communication with lgbta water polo teams at IGLA2004 (in Ft.Lauderdale, USA) and pre-registration levels for either event will undoubtedly figure prominently in our decision.

Our decisions are made purely on the athletic merits of the planned events and our desire to commit to a large undertaking only if we will have the opportunity to test ourselves against the best competition available, regardless of convenience, cost or politics. We feel that this is the best course of action for us to meet our own goals and objectives at this time.

See you in Fort Lauderdale!

Mark-Andrew Stefan,
Team manager
A Contre-Courant IGLOO! Water Polo Team
Montréal, Québec, Canada

Thanks for starting this thread. It's great to see how the results panned out.

From what I can tell, most teams would prefer to attend the Gay Games in Chicago, with a few wanting to participate at Rendezvous as well.

One possible option for the RV organizers: rather than having a full-on tournament as presented at IGLA or the GG, why not host an invitational, with a few seeded teams enhanced by All-Star teams from the different continents or regions (a Pacific All-Star team versus an Atlantic All-Star team, etc.).

Another thought would be to have the athletes register as individuals, then do a wild card draw to determine team rosters, possibly seeding a few of the better players on each team.

Any situation that allows us to 'mix up' the teams gives the athletes a chance to be more interactive (most teams stick together out of the water as well, not allowing for fuller interaction), and would probably help increase the skill level for many of the participants. Also makes for a much more exciting tournament.

I am strictly a recreational player (took up the sport 4 years ago at age 40) but my skills are probably better than many 4-year recreational players in IGLA because I have trained with some of the most talented players in the history of lgbt water polo. I have no doubt that mixing up the teams like this will be a good challenge for the skilled and less-skilled alike; the end result would be that this type of cross-training will improve the level of play overall in the long-run.

I stumbled across this thread because of my direct involvement in the Gay Games bidding process, and have not seen anything posted within our club alerting players to this board. Is there some way the word can get out to all the individual players on each team/club so we can have a more interactive thread?

Bonne chance,

Shamey Cramer
President/CEO Los Angeles Games Ltd.
Member, West Hollywood Aquatics

Shamey,

The day that this thread was started, an email was sent to all lgbta water polo team managers and/or team emails inviting them to visit this site to view the results of the survey, and contribute to a discussion.

Btw, personnally, I really like your idea about encouraging athletes to register individually and teams being randomly formed from these players. This sort of happened in Sydney with the women's "Team World" -- it would be interesting to hear from any of the women who played on that team to share their experiences of playing on a team in which most of the players are essentially strangers.

Cool. I was about to send an email to Brett McKnight, our wp rep this year to have him spread the word, but you're on top of it.

At IGLA 2003, Patrick Reardon/Team NY played as a 'free agent' for the Paris team, as did a few others - NY had more than enough players. Carl Anhalt did it at IGLA 2000 in Paris, and had a great experience; My team mate Joy Mendenhall played with SF Tsunami women in Sydney in the women's tournament and ended up with a Bronze medal (she and I were on the B team that came in 5th Down Under). I'm thinking about doing the same thing for Ft. Lauderdale, especially since I haven't been working out with the team post-IGLA. It's a great way to meet new people, and in my case, I certainly won't be missed from the wh2o roster (most of the team have been playing the sport since their early teens, at least) and might even be an asset as a pick-up player.

The Desert Duel tournament going on in Arizona this weekend (where wh2o is playing) has rules for the Open tournament re: number of women on each roster, as well as in the pool at all times. RV could incorporate similar rules. Sure would add an interesting twist to the whole thing, with a much more level playing field from top to bottom.

Hey folks - the plan for Gay Games VII is just as you suggest regarding teams. Our registration plan anticipates offering the following options for team sports: 1) register individually and asked to be put on a team, 2) register yourself and your team (basically reserve a series of slots) and then fill in the blanks later, 3) register your whole team at once.

Hey Igloopolo. I have appreciated your posts on the board. You seem to be very even handed in your assesment of the situation between M2006 and the FGG. It is good to hear from someone in Montreal that the FGG is not the all encompassing evil some would have us believe.

I also appreciate how you did your best to keep this poll unbiased. Reading the reponses I interpret two things.

One, there is definitely respect for ACC and your polo team as most said they would attend a tournament hosted by you. There is also no confusing ACC with M2006.

And two, that the majority of the teams will be attending the Gay Games in Chicago. Nine teams stated outright they would support the Gay Games and three said they would go where the best competition is held. Three teams stated they would go to Montreal. That would make it 12 teams in Chicago and three in Montreal at this point.