I find the web sites of the 3 cities competing for the privilege to host Gay Games 2010 as follows:

Cologne: www.gaygamescologne.org
Johannesburg:
www.gaygamesjohannesburg.com
Paris:
www.parisgames2010.org


But I cannot find the wet site of the Copenhagen OutGames 2009. Can somebody help me find this?

The Gay Games applicants give lots of information about their plans -- I would like to see how this will compare to OutGames Copenhagen.

Also, I wonder which other cities competed to host OutGames 2009 and what are the reasons the OutGames Board prefers Copenhagen?

I have heard it said by some people the Federation of Gay Games Board is not so open about their site selection, but honestly, I can find a lot more informations about their process than about the OutGames.

Although I plan to go to Chicago Gay Games next year with all my teammates, honestly I do not have a loyalty to one group over the other. But I wonder why there seems to be so much available on the web about the 2010 Gay Games applicant cities, and nothing about the OutGames.

Thanks for reading!

I don't believe there were any other serious bids for 2009. Regarding the difference in information, one organization is 25 years old and has had 6 events while the other has just formed and has yet to actually host an event - this would have a large impact on the capacities of the organizations.

You should be able to find contact #'s at GLISA.org (google it.)

Timing-wise, Both Sao Paolo Brazil and Berlin Germany dropped out of the bidding for 2009, prefering to wait for 2013. Copenhagan stepped into the breach at the 11th hour.

Chuck you are correct. The general impression was that once Berlin - the prohibitive favourite pulled out due to the split between pro-FGG forces and pro-GLISA forces within that community, that Sao Paulo - the only other official bidder at that time withdrew, simply because realistically they were looking at their bid as a practice for 2013, and did not think they were really ready to be the host city in 2009. (As an aside some contacts I have within the FGG have referred to Joburg's Gay Games bid with similar comments - that even though it will be given serious consideration along with the other two bids that the thinking is that they are using this bid as a practice run for 2014.)

So once Sao Paulo pulled out, some GLBT community members in Denmark approached the local gay sports groups and local and federal government agencies to see if they would take up the challenge. They entered negotiations with GLISA and reached a deal to host 2009.

With two cities already having expressed interest in 2013 I know one of the GLISA committees is working on rules for bidding organizations for future Outgames. It is a growth process and the FGG with six Games under their belt are naturally further along in that process. For example there was not really any real bidding process for Gay Games until version 4 in New York. The first two were hosted in San Francisco and Edition 3 in Vancouver, legend has it that that deal to have Vancouver host the event, was sealed with a hand shake and signatures on a napkin in a bar.

Pat

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Travelpat:

[... (As an aside some contacts I have within the FGG have referred to Joburg's Gay Games bid with similar comments - that even though it will be given serious consideration along with the other two bids that the thinking is that they are using this bid as a practice run for 2014.) ]

*************************************************


Pat, some members of the Federation, of late, have stayed silent on discussing anything in connection with Outgames, GLISA or its processes on this board to abide by the parameters set forth at the Building Bridges Conference in London in February. As much as I would like to stay silent right now, I am going on record regarding your unfactual comment, referenced above, about the Federation's current site selection process.

We have gone through great pains to make this current site selection process as fair and transparent as possible. Whoever you claim to have been speaking to in no way represents the vast majority of the FGG board who take their confidentiality and conflict of interest pledges seriously. I have had the unique opportunity and pleasure to speak to representatives from Cologne, Johannesburg and Paris prior to their submitting formal intents to bid and I know for a fact that each city has been and is currently working extremely hard for the right to host Gay Games VIII in 2010. Each city has submitted solid bid documents stating their case to the Federation, and each has been subjected to some of the most intense questioning I have ever witnessed in the 12 years I have been involved in Gay Games site selection (both as a delegate on the Federation board and as an officer on two bidding organizations - Dallas in 1997 and Los Angeles in 2001).

Each city has undergone an intensive, multi-day site visit from our site selection co-chairs. Each bidding organization must commit hundreds of hours voluntarily to work on their respective bids - raising funds for support; obtaining support from their municipal and/or national government, various organizations and the LGBT community at-large; and fine-tuning their efforts. The Federation's site selection process culminates in November in Chicago when each bidding group delivers its individual presentation followed by two additional question and answer periods over two days. They will be presenting to approximately 55 current and former representatives of LGBT sport and cultural organizations that make up the FGG, each with a vote. It is an arduous, yet worthwhile process. To suggest, even remotely, that any bid is a "practice bid" is an affront.

Any of the 2010 Gay Games candidate cities would make a great host and is more than ready for the challenge and opportunity...right now.

Charles King, Secretary
Federation of Gay Games

Hi Charles:
I apologize if by my comment I gave the impression that I thought the FGG would not give all three bids equal consideration. I thought I covered that in my 'would be given serious consideration' comment. If you or anybody else took that to mean I was insinuating in any way that all bids would not be given equal consideration by the overall FGG board I apologize as that was not my intent.

As a board member on Team Toronto a FGG member, we discussed at our board meeting last night plans to hold a special meeting prior to the Chicago FGG meetings later in November to consider what bid we will support for the 2010 games based on what information we will have at that time from the 3 bidding cities. And we will give all three bids equal consideration, because it is in our best interest to have the city that we feel is best to be given our support. And if that turns out to be Joburg, that is who Team Toronto's vote will go to.

But to be fair to me, I had heard that 'practice run' comment from 3-4 different people who are in some way associated with the FGG in some off the cuff remarks about the bidding cities. Although in all cases, that was months ago before any of us had any information on the specifics of the Joburg bid. And I indeed posted here a couple of months ago (well after hearing the practice bid comments), at the time I was booking travel for the 3 site selection inspectors for the FGG that at that time it seemed to me the Joburg people who were covering all the bases, even re-checking with me twice to confirm they had the correct flight details for those three so that they could be met at the airport. They even went so far as to check with me to re-confirm they had the correct spelling of the names of the site inspectors. Great attention to even the smallest detail. I was personally impressed with the people I had contact with from their organization, so since that time I considered their bid to be a serious one. So Charles I completely accept your explanation that their bid is being taken seriously by the FGG board.

And heck even if some people months ago were thinking along the lines of practice run, I'm sure that view will change if Joburg indeed has the best bid.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if Joburg does not win this time, history has shown that cities who have previously bid and lost, are well positioned based on that invaluable bidding experience to put forth a stronger bid the next time. It happens all the time with other organizations - the Olympics being the best known example. So any losing city this time will be well positioned for 2014. I don't believe any of the three bidding cities this time have recently bid - so in that sense I don't think any of the three have that advantage this time. Sydney won the rights to 2002 after losing to Amsterdam in 1998. Montreal originally won the rights for 2006 after losing to Sydney for 2002.

So good luck to all three, and I hope the two losing cities do bid again, as from everything I have heard each of the three bids are impressive. And that is good news for the FGG and good news for GLBT sport.

Just as I think it is good news that already two cities have expressed an interest in Outgames 2013. That is all good news in my opinion.

(Come on you didn't really think I could post something without at least adding one positive comment about the Outgames or GLISA - did you?) wink
Pat

[ October 04, 2005, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Travelpat ]

Excellent post, Charles.

legend has it that that deal to have Vancouver host the event, was sealed with a hand shake and signatures on a napkin in a bar.

And you couldn't end a post without dissing the history of the Gay Games, could you?

How was Copenhagen chosen? Hmm? Possibly something more intimate than a handshake? Or maybe just an out and out bribe?

Pat,

Like Charles, I have resisted reacting to your Sweet and Low version of the world. If I didn't know better (and I'm not sure I do) I would guess that you have actually started to believe the stuff you write even though it is consistently ignoring any factual background.

I give you high marks for the ability to let go on the parts of the world you don't like, as if they either don't exist or haven't ever occurred.

I am very amused whenver you decide to share with us your inside information that always comes down in a big positive for the side where you stand to make a bunch of money. And you delude yourself into believeing that you are helping everyone out by giving them such thoughtful insights.

In regards to the Vancouver bid process, you do the whole organizing Committee a disservice by repeating that story. I suspect you say that

legend has it

line as a cover for the fact that you know it is not true. Of course that never stops you from slinging hash though does it? A such a fine upstanding example of GLBT leadership it doesn't cross your mind to attempt a level of due diligence that would never allow you to say such completely incorrect information, or to say things that were defamatory of a process without looking into the facts first.

I guess I am not surprised considering the fact that you have never responded to my questions in regards to the clearly fabricated registration numbers even when I had uncovered the facts in the documents that Montreal issued themselves to show what their budget was. This was in spite of the fact that you had no problem reading me the riot act as a person that had no trust in the folks in Montreal - because they would never lie to government. Well I expect you were right on 2 accounts: I don't trust them and also they either lied to all of u or they lied to the Government of Canada. Considering that there are nastier legal repercussions if they lie to the people of Canada, I suspect that they gave incorrect information to us in regards to their registrations numbers.

Of course that would explain their desparation in selling off registrations so cheaply at this time.

Beware everyone, this sort of action has occurred in the past and could well be a sign of a looming financial crisis.

As for Vancouver and the bid process- they had to make a presntation in detail to San Francisco Arts and Athletics in order to receive the bid. There was a document included that was similar to the current documents. I believe several copies of it are in the Archives section of the SF Public Library. Thsi was no handshake in a bar although handshakes did occur in a bar. There was some pretty tough negotiating back then. And just so you know, this information came from the lead of the team from Vancouver that secured the bid and persevered in order to put on Gay Games III Celebration 90.

Please do us all a favor and at least pretend to check out your facts before you leave such demeaning comments laying around.

It isn't like you would really want someone to believe it would you?

As for the GLISA bid process - there clearly was not one. And even if Joburg was making a practise bid, it clearly is nothing like the "practise bid" from Rio. Were their actually any people associated with that bid? How convenient was it that their bid, and Berlins' bid dried up just at the time that Copenhagen could be revealed to be a possible attempt at a second OutGames?

And where is the transparency in a process where the Executive Board gave the rights to host OutGames 2 in only a few short days advance of the first democratic Congress? Guess they were worried that the Dmocracy might not like what they were doing?

And were is our firend from Denmark that looks for perfection from the FGG and accepts nepotism for himself and his friends?

As I have talked to more and more people that stayed out of this whole situation, I have found out that even more of them are finding it clear that Montreal had no intention of ever signing an agreement with the FGG. They come to me to see if I know anything more. I tell them that it really is a tired issue and Montreal has every right to do what they want. I also tell them that OutGames is equivalent to Goodwill Games while Gay Games is equivalent to Olympics.

I would be proud to have a Goodwill Games Medal but try as hard as I could, it would never become an Olympic Medal!

Ken

You have to hand it to travelpat, he is a master at manipulating his words and convincing folks the sky is yellow when it is indeed blue. Thank-you Ken and Charles for jumping in and giving us folks that don’t have the ‘inside scoop’ some true facts for a change.

It will be interesting to see what type of mumble-jumble travelpat will come back with, if anything at all. However, if he does decide to reply again perhaps he can help answer the following questions: Why is it that Copenhagen announced it was the host of the 2009 event before the GLISA/Montreal 2006 meeting had a vote (according to the GLISA event schedule)? Why were Montreal apologists like travelpat lauding the merits of the Berlin and Rio bids on this very website less than a week before the announcement of Copenhagen?

No mumble jumble. I've gone out of my way to try to say nothing at all about Chicago, the FGG etc. for months now. I slip up and make one little comment as an aside by way of trying to explain Sao Paulo's withdrawing from the 2009 Outgames and BOOM! you'd think I had just pissed on somebody's grave. And Ken no slight intended towards anybody involved with getting the Games for Vancouver. But that story of signatures and handshake in a bar was something I heard before AS A SOURCE OF PRIDE. Such a wonderful contrast to the mess between the FGG and Montreal.

As for Copenhagen, at the INAUGURAL GLISA conference, where we elected our first board, part of the function of that board will be to partner with Copenhage and finalize a deal for delivery of Outgames 2009. That sentiment was FULLY supported by all organizations represented at that inaugural conference.

So hopefully this little hornet's nest will die down, and I promise to try to refrain from ever making ANY comments about the FGG unless posting on behalf of Team Toronto - which fellow board members - including very pro-FGG board members still ask me to do on their behalf. You see they know me and deal with me on a daily basis, and horror of horrors, they have appointed me, to present what travel options there are to Chicago for 2006 on behalf of the board at our Team Toronto AGM and info. meeting on October 20th. They don't have this warped perception of anti-FGG horns coming out of my head like apparently some others do.

By the way just back from a major international travel GLBT travel conference in Montreal and had a chance to get some of the latest up to date news on the Outgames, and things continue to progress very well. Some great new sponsorship news coming down the pipe in the next couple of weeks. One hint - they won't have to worry about running out of water for the marathoners.

Pat

OK that last post was from me personally. This one is on behalf of the Team Toronto board.

On behalf of the Team Toronto board it gives me great pleasure to announce that we have expanded the program for the evening of October 20th. Now in addition to our AGM and information session, in partnership with Montreal Outgames and VIA the evening will conclude with the Toronto Outgames Launch Party. Team Toronto has entered a partnership with Outgames to now make the event even bigger and better. The schedule now will be:
- Team Toronto AGM with information on Team Toronto's plans for Chicago and Montreal including travel info for both events, fundraising, uniforms etc. from 7:00 - to approx. 8:00PM.
- From 8:00PM - 9:00PM Outgames officials will present the latest news on their event including the announcement of a new special sponsorship with VIA rail for travel from Toronto to the Outgames.
- Following that presentation the party starts with music, dancing and a cash bar. Outgames and Team Toronto representatives will be manning tables all night long so people can get the latest updates and most importantly register for Team Toronto. Everybody who pays their $15.00 2005-2006 Team Toronto membership will receive a $100.00 voucher from Rainbow High Vacations.

A great chance to get the latest information on the games in 2006, to sign up for Team Toronto and to have a fun social night with others in the GLBT sport community of Toronto.

It all happens Thursday October 20, from 7:00PM to Midnight (or later) at Tallulah's Cabaret in Buddies in Bad Times Theatre. Buddies is located at 12 Alexander Street.

On behalf of the Team Toronto Board we hope to see you all there.

Pat

To those who are in a tizzy about the "handshake in a bar" comment as regards the Gay Games III in Vancouver, might I suggest you send an email to Team Vancouver's FFG delegate, Richard Dopson, since he was one of the guys involved. You could probably do this through info@teamvancouver.net

OutGames reports the latest sports event: the Forked Tongue Backtrack.

www.whatacrock.com

OK, now that was TOO funny Strider. You almost made me spray my Starbucks all over the CPU.

It's ok if you do that CHI, just as long as it doesn't come out your nose too.