Article on Billy Packer's comment to Charlie Rose. Curious as to what people think?

While I think Packer is a class A douchebag blowhard, I don't find this is offensive. I'd like to think that a TV commentator/journalist/whatever would have a better command of vocabulary, but my reaction is more like, "eh".

Packer is a goof. I don't like him overall. This comment is icing on the cake.


He's up there in age and a product of the old school where words like "fag", "colored", and other derogatory words were part of his culture as a youth that was acceptable by the status quo.

Is this the first time he's made such remarks? Older people are harder to change. I would bet he personally didn't mean to imply that gay people were "no shows". It just shows he's becoming aged ( physically and mentally) and losing ability to communicate/articulate thoughts in a clear and concise manner.

I just recently discovered the origins of the word "fag". I assumed/believed it was derived from the British slang word for cigarette which is Fag.

The Word faggot is derived from a Latin word meaning " small fire word or Kindling". During the Inquisitions in Spain in the 12th and 13th century, gay people were ordered to bring "faggot" from the woods to start fires burn witches or anyone contesting Catholicism. Often times when the supply of faggot/small wood was running low, the alleged gay people were used as "wood" and thrown onto the fire to keep it going so more executions could be commited Thus, the name "faggot" was transferred to gay men.


I doubt Mr. Packer knows this. If they knew the origins, would they be so trigger happy with the word?

I'm going to defend Billy Packer on this one. My dad, who is a few years older than Billy Packer, has used this expression on a few occassions. One time I heard him say, "the Ford has finally fagged out (in response to our car dying)." I asked him what he was talking about, and he immediately realized WHY I was asking and said, "Oh, I didn't mean that as an anti-gay slur. That's just an old expression." He also used the expression "I pulled a boner" to acknowledge mistakes (sadly, once in front of my teenage peers). So, I certainly will not question John Amaechi's statement about its use in Britain, but I have firsthand experience that at least one well meaning oldtimer in the US uses it without demeaning intent. I'm going to assume that Billy meant nothing by it, though as a public figure in a sport for 18-22 year olds, he should now realize it has no other meaning than a negative intent. So let's just write it off as Billy having "pulled a boner", unless he says it again...

I can't believe I am doing this - but I think I have to defend Ford on this one.

I don't think the comment was meant to be, or was, homophobic.

I have actually heard this term used before, in that context, although very rarely these days.

I think its a two generations ago dying expression - supprisingly enough I have heard it a couple of times in the UK where I am told it was once quite common and had nothing to do with our little family.

Even stranger my dictionary gives this history for the usage:

"Origin: 1425–75; late ME fagge broken thread in cloth, loose end (of obscure orig.); sense development appar.: drooping end > to droop, tire > to make weary > drudgery, drudge (cf. relationship of flag1 to flag3); (def. 6) a shortening of fag end (a butt, hence a cigarette)."

Poor choice of words? Yes.

Homophobic? No.

Give the guy a pass, and lets fight some real battles.

Rob

To make clear, our article did not pass judgment on Packer or call him homophobic. However, it is news if the most visible college basketball commentator says "fag" on a national TV program.

I don't think this makes Packer homophobic and is probably part of his generation's vocabulary. However, times change and so does language and Packer should not be using such terms. Growing up, I heard people often say "are you going to Jew them down" when talking about getting a deal -- no one could get away with that today. "Fag out" in the Packer context means to wimp out, to be a sissy, further reinforcing stereotypes about gays. He should be not crucified for using it, nor should he be given a pass -- it had to be pointed out.

Growing up with the last name Packer, you would think anti-gay phrases would be on his mental radar screen.

'

I agree. Its similar to someone referencing a man as a "girl" when they are underacheiving. I've done it before, regretably. I sense packer said the comment in a playful way to kind of avoid telling the guy he was undependable. Many people act similarly when they don't want to be communicate in a direct manner so the situation become less intense.

It shows he can't communicate his point without referencing a word that's insulting to a group of people. There is irony that Packer is a broadcaster. Granted, calling a man a "girl" is far less severe than using the word "fag".

I doubt he knows the real meaning/origin of the word.

Whenever I hear people complain about words used, I realize how lucky we are as gay people in America. Sure, not every state grants the same rights, but if things were a lot worse (as so many claim) then I think we'd be bitching about a lot more than word usage.

While it seems a silly term, he was saying it to Charlie Rose so it's pretty clear it wasn't a gay slur. I've never heard the saying, and I had no idea that fag originally meant 'small fire wood, or kindling'...

This episode deserves to be dropped quickly without overreaction...

Instead let's make jokes about our 'kindling...'

Why is it, that after so many verbal slurs, beatings and even murders simply for being what God made us, that so many men are willing to accept just a splash of shit on them, saying that it's a blessing that a whole truckload of manure wasn't dumped on them, smothering out their life? Except for the still rare truly coprophagous straight or gay guy out there, where the hell is your manhood when you accept this crap as crepe suzette!? Look at & listen to that ass**** Packer's comments on YouTube, and you then try to tell me that he meant a metaphor to cigarettes or becoming fatigued or some other absolute acquiescence to ages-old straight prejudices. Impossible to hear it from anyone without becoming incensed at their neutering. Had he said it in my presence, he and that fawning Charlie Rose would have had their asses kicked by me, or at least I'd have to be pried off of them! What Packer chose to say, as one US Supreme Court Justice labeled them, are "fighting words" and that's just what should be done by anyone not wanting to feign some artificially elevated sense of being "above it all." And for those of you who consider yourselves so "enlightened" as to excuse it to old age, why don't you take your ageism and shove it where the Moon don't shine! Might as well take it unlubed up the poop chute, since you've gotten so used to chomping down on these straight men's logs of crap with your mental pie hole! Slurs, no matter how supposedly well-intended or, as is more cowardly contended by the speakers who let their prejudices slip in the heat of the moment, "really didn't mean to offend anyone!" Grow up & fight for the rights other people have sacrificed to guarantee under our Constitution. I'm not only talking about the outrageously brave "fay" and more conservative "non-straight" folks, but those who marched in the streets of Selma, fought on the beaches of Normandy, or who shed blood, sweat or tears in the support of our American Commitment to freedom under law. The present Idiot Prince and his like are not the patriots of this great country. The people who live, breathe & die for liberty are. No straight, gay, bi, transgendered, or other person can be securely free when part of us is routinely marginalized. That's what this struggle is about! Free speech does not mean the license to say whatever you want without consequences. This jerk Packer gets one helluva paycheck from CBS for "slipping up" like he did with a close crony like Charlie Rose. In a capitalist democracy, why shouldn't he suffer the outrage of us gay consumers? Or, are you all gonna "fag out" under some accomodating excuse that keeps the straight boat from rocking?

Billy PACKER "fags out"
PACKER?

That part of the story is funny.
Otherwise, it was a Grade A stoooooopid thing to say. And I take it slightly more seriously than most others here. Anything to keep boys and young men in rigid, stereotypical gender roles is pretty problematic.

Boys and young men feel constant pressure to "man up", so talking about "fagging out" can be extremely problematic. As in:
...Dude, don't fag out on us...
...Awwww, you gonna fag out now?
...That dude totally fagged out...

I'm not saying a kid is going to shoot up a school tomorrow, but I can say with certainty that this is the kind of language used to coerce boys into pranks and hurting other boys or hurting girls to prove thier masculinity.

I'm even more annoyed, though, that Packer would stoop to this level for "credibility." Packer said this stoopidness because he was try to sound hip or edgy, not because he's from another generation. Dude is annoys me to no end.

I heard the phrase "I'm completely fagged" and " I'm totally fagged out" all the time growing up in Mississippi, and it NEVER had an anti-gay connection. It simply meant that a person was exhausted to the point of collapse. My parents used the phrase often and they NEVER used the word "fag" to refer to a gay person.

Strangely the phrase has shown up twice in the last couple of days with Billy Packer and Alberto Gonzales both using it. Honestly, I think the Gonzales' use was well within the context of "fatigued" or "exhausted" (as much as it pains me to defend Gonzales on ANYTHING). Packer's use seems to be a bit more questionable.

I was raised in Indiana, and I too have heard this phrase, meaning I am fatigued out, I am tired. No sexual reference is intended. There is no homophobia in this statement. I will go onto say that it has been years since I have heard anyone say this, as this saying has seemingly fallen out of favor.

Ditto to last two posts. That's how I too have always heard that phrase used.

But Packer did not say "I'm completely fagged." He told Rose that Rose would "fag out," which I clearly took to mean he would wimp out, be a pu***, a sissy. The context is totally different. Watch the video and don't put more benign words into Packer's mouth.

He knew what he was saying. If you listen to the video, he said "fag" out. Its like saying to someone not to "*ussy/girl out" when they don't show up. That's insulting to women. This is no different.

Wasn't that interview recorded before airing? I wonder why Rose or the segment producer didn't consider editing that portion of the interview? If the interview was aired as is, then I have to also question the people behind the scenes of the Charlie Rose program for letting that comment slip by.

Poor choice of words? Yes.
Should he be fired? Not necessarily.

I do not expect Packer, or any other notable figure, to be adept at expressing an opinion on television without the risk of putting foot A into mouth B. Taking the comment into context, it was somewhat harmless but whenever Packer appears on TV, I do plan to change the channel or turn the TV off. Considering how many other people who suffer from foot-in-mouth disease, the TV will be off for a long time.

All this discussion over the various meanings made me look up a legitimate word that has always confused me and later bothered me because of the word's pronunciation. I think I probably first heard this as a kid in church and later in various places in literature. This is the word "niggardly", which means "stingy" or "miserly". Even though this is the word's true meaning, I can't imagine any broadcaster choosing to utter it over the airways these days because it sounds too nearly like a very offensive slur.
The fact is when we speak or write we make conscious choices in selecting the words we choose. This is easily evidenced with the use of curse words; even people who frequently use these words can stop themselves when they are being interviewed for a job or during some other situation where it is necessary to do so. Broadcasters whose livelihood comes from the words they say should be even more aware of their word choices. This guy Rose made a choice in his utterance, but his saying that he would say it again shows his complete arrogance and disrespect for gay people. If age is an excuse for his not being able to use more appropriate language, then it's probably time for the network to no longer put him on the air.

Packer says he'd say it again. Story updated.

To clarify it was Billy Packer who made the statement on Charlie Rose's program, not Charlie Rose.

The fact that he said it once, regardless of what he says he meant, isn't really acceptable to me. I have NEVER bought this excuse of a different meaning for the word. Athletes and others have made similar excuses. In this day and age, that word has ONE PRIMARY MEANING.

The fact that he blatantly, obnoxiously, defiantly says he'll use it again, makes him a useless piece of garbage that should be dumped, or shredded, or burned to ashes and disposed of. On the other hand, he's probably more like one of those plastic shopping bags that will sit in a landfill forever.

In 1999 David Howard, a white aide to mayor Anthony Williams of Washington, DC (who is black), used the word “niggardly” in its correct context. Nonetheless it was considered offensive and Howard expendable; he was wrongly fired.

Unlike “niggardly”, a bona fide word with an established eytymology and definition, “fag out” is a colloquial phrase. I have never in my 42 years heard “fag out” spoken once and find its use here unacceptable. Substitute “fag” with an ethnic or racial slur and how does it sound? Equally vile.

I doubt Billy Packer will lose his job, or Charlie Rose for that matter. I doubt either of them gave it a second thought as they laughed on air together after the offending exchange. That is the problem.

It may be a colloquialism, but its use may predate the popularity of using the term fag to describe someone who is gay or homosexual.

Language changes and evolves.

Before WW2 word niggardly would have been accapted without blinking an eye, as would the term 'fag out'.

Use of both terms today are insensitive and in questionable taste at best.

But lets be realistic - there are more important battles to fight. Jumping all over some dumb aging jock who found a job as an announcer for a poor choice of words when his slang is just 60 years out of date is hardly the way to make friends and influence people.

'...Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy’s resistance without fighting....' Sunzi bingfa (Sun Tzu)

In other words pick your battles wisely, and fight only as a last resort...

R