I am seriously considering doing the Victoria Marathon on October the 12th. Unfortunately this falls somewhat in the middle of the fall Rowing season. If I am going to do this, I want to do well enough to qualify for Boston.

Here is the issue. I have to Row national championships at teh end of september and university championships in early november. Baisically for the last month leading up to the taper I would be able to run no more than twice a week.

The person I talked to at the local Running Room said that under those circumstances that running it was generally a bad idea full stop. However I think he is used to giving advice to his couch potatos that sign up for his running clinics and really has no inclination of what my cardio fitness is like or what rowing even is. The picutre I get is that there is so much bullshit out there about proper training that people lose sight of the big picture; mainly that you need good shoes, good socks, some body glide, proper nutrition/hydration and the ability to suck it up. I ran a half marathon sort of on a whim this week (which was the first running i had done in a month) and finished in 1:40 which was somewhat encouraging.

So with less than two months to go and fairly constrained training times, what's the best way I can go about doing this?

I think it is doable to taper the month of September for your rowing championship at the end of the month. You seem to be in rather good conditon already since you just did a half with no running in a month. My thoughts are to work up to two 20-22 milers by the first September so your legs will at least experience that threshold. Most people start tapering about 4 weeks before a marathon you could start it 5 weeks out, which should not interfere with your rowing. During the 4 weeks prior to the marathon you could probably get away with 1 long run of 10-13 miles and 1 shorter run of 6-8 miles.

I am not an expert, but everyone has a different tolerance level for pain and endurance, you know your body better than anyone, so listen to what it tells you and you should be fine.


Good Luck

I am also marathoner and runner, Triathlete and have done Ironman.

I started at nothing and my marathon time has improved by over an hour the first year and by a 1/2 hour the second year so I have studied what it takes to get fast and also know I am still about 1-3 years from BQ for my age group. Just this year My 10K time improved (still slow but getting there) by 8 minutes.

First off, Sounds GREAT you want to do a Marathon!!!! THEY ROCK~ oh yeah and they can be hard~

But if you want to PR and want to BQ(Boston Qualify) You need to understand what that means.

The two long runs (20-22) are good. Keep that when you do your training.

To better advise you I need to know your running experience, athletic experience and mental strength. You might be way experienced with athletics and a HELLAJOCK runner who can lay it down the first time. AWESOME if that's the case and Sounds like you might have a good base so far.....but....need to know lots like...is the course hilly? Flat? Do you like running hills? Will temp be hot? Humid? Cool? Wet? Lots of variable you need to know.

It is totally different to run a full rather than a half.

The pain you feel doing 13.1 all out is nothing compared to 26.2 all out. Miles 18-26 can really SUCK if you are doing a hard core pace.

You are in college (right?) so lets say you are 18-34 age group so to qualify you need 3:10

your 1/2 mary time was 1:40 (for fun that is AWESOME but did you PUSH?) you can calculate your marathon time as 3:28. That is 18 minutes off of your goal of 3:10

Your VDot needs to be 50-51 to qualify you need to run lots faster to make it.

Or if on a lark like you mentioned you can go out and run a 1/2 Mary at 1:30 then you are probably closer to ready, but still miles 18-26..........You NEVER KNOW what will happen.

Go here to look at more stuff on your VDOT Or google Vdot if you don't know it already.

http://www.runbayou.com/jackd.htm

Go out and run a 10K as hard as you can and get back to me with the time. Then we can talk more about BQ. Let alone your marathon training for your race and possible conflicting with your schedule. You are looking to run a 10K at about 40 mins or faster.

Last year I improved my 10K time by almost 8 minutes so know you can improve, but you probably know is hard to build fitness and I don't mean to talk down to you, I just don't know your athletic background. I would love to see you rock it out and BQ so let me know if I can give more guidance/advice/help.

I do agree with the guy at the running store about your schedule. Maybe check out another Marathon at a different time. The fatigue you might feel with Marathon training can also affect your rowing.......even if you are only 20( or so?) years old. (lucky guy!)

Let me know if I can help.

Best,

Drew

P.S. you might already have this but here are the times you need

http://www.bostonmarathon.org/BostonMarathon/Qualifying.asp

P.P.S. I looked up your marathon. Looks pretty tame as far as hills. And like website says TOP 10 of the Destination Marathon. I would love to run it! Maybe you could train to do the 1/2Mary and not interfer with your Rowing training and shoot for sub 1:30 so you know you have better chance for BQ on your first full Mary later.

I don't know if anyone will see this post, but I am seeking advice...
I'm running at a marathon on Oct 4th, and I have been training since late May. I have been following a training schedule, and have been doing a little more than expected. However, I thought of running a full marathon next week as part of my regimen. Is that such a good thing to do? I have run up to 20 miles in one day.
Any advice is very much appreciated.

NO! You actually have to start tapering off your mileage so you have "fresh legs" marathon day. If you run 26.2 now, you be in "recovery" for a few weeks. It sounds like this is your first marathon which is always the hardest and recovery takes longer. Next week I'd suggest no more than a 18 mile run or so then really start to taper down.

If you have a runner's build/genetics, you may be able to get away with more but without knowing about what your training has been, this is my advice.

I do not have anything close to a runner's build but have run two marathons - 4:02 & 3:36, 15 half marathons and countless 10 & 5Ks.

Good luck!

Ditto what TC says. DO NOT RUN A FULL MARATHON SOLO BEFORE YOUR BIG RACE! Until you are officially experienced as a marathoner.

Here's the science behind it. Somewhere between 18-22 miles (of 2 hours whichever comes first and most humans don't have that much speed in them) the body uses up all glycogen and even if you are fueling with gels you are entering a place where the body is doing significantly more damage than the training you have done up to that point.

Historically the Marathon distance was not regulated until the British Marathon (Think was in the olympics in the 20's). Before that it was variable distance. IF they has standardized 20 or 22 miles the marathon would be SO MUCH EASIER. Those last 8-6 miles can really surprise you...but your body will have it's own reaction. Maybe none.....maybe mild.....maybe THE WALL!

4-3 weeks out most people do the last big run and enter taper.

my Long run of the week toward the end is something like
20
12,
6
race day

Feel free to ask me all about taper! FUN FUN FUN FUN!!! (usually not, just weird!)

Don't mess up your taper by thinking "I FEEL SO GOOD I AM GOING TO RUN FASTER THAN I DID DURING MY BUILD UP!"

run the same speed during taper.

When you do your taper 12 your body is like..........Um.....IS THAT ALL?!

At the 6 it is like.......WTF ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!

Trust me, it will totally be suprised on race day!

Please keep us updated! I would love a race report!!!!!

Best,

Drew

Drew, TC
Thanks so much for the warning! Thank goodness I checked here. I don't know if I am excited or nervous, but I can't wait for this thing to get over with. My run time is slow, but I just wanted to make sure I finish in less than 5 hours. Race report will come your way guys.
JEFF

doesn't matter if your time is 2:09 or 7:55 it is still a marathon.

One of the challenges about a slower marathon is the patience. You will be fine on your first! It is a strange and wierd trip the first time.

Which one are you running? The crowd support and course can make a difference for every marathon.

Best,

Drew

Hello Drew.
Wineglass Marathon in Corning NY.
The reason why I think I felt gravitated towards running is because I enjoy being alone. On Saturdays, I would run from 2-3 hours, and I don't run with anyone. It seems lonely, but I enjoy the solitude. It's a break from being around co-workers and even though I love my partner so much, this is my "me" time. So patience, I have. Endurance? I'll find out!
JEFF

Jeff:

I lived in Rochester from 94-99. Was not into endurance sports at the time (grad school was more important)

I understand the solitary. My first Marathon was here in Lit Rock and the crowd really was fun for me. My second I trained for speed and was working very hard and all the cheering of people just got in the way of my mine.

The one issue you might want to mentally prepare for is the rain or cold.

Do you have good rain gear and/or cold weather gear that you have trained in?.

do you know about Body Glide? Do you know about Nip Guards? If you already have been running 3 hours you probably do but I figure I should check.

Best,

Drew

Drew, you are the best.
I have run in the rain. I just take my shirt off and I am fine. If it's cold, I have a long sleeve breathable shirt. I have run once very early in the morning when it was a little nippy. If it is cold and raining? That I haven't experienced.
Glide--- been using it. I used to put bandaids. And when I forgot to put it a couple of runs, my shirt was bloodied.
I also have used the powebar gel in two of my long runs. I can't believe the difference it makes when you have passed the 12th or 13th mile and you feel like you can still keep going.
My only problem now is getting a good water fanny pack. The one I have is digging in my hips. I need to get a new one soon to get used to it.
I am buying new running shoes this saturday. Is this a good idea 4 weeks before the marathon?
JEFF

Jeff:

4 weeks should be fine. But don't change brands and be prepared for "hot spots" on your feet and possible to put glide on before you wear them to be safe.

Enjoy your taper!

Best,

Drew

So update of sorts.

I ended up with a minor injury to my knee playing pick-up soccer at school and that put me off running as a precaution for the rowing. As far as Nat champs went, could have been better. At University Champs, we came Second in the heavy eight by only ~ a second. I row lighty usually, so making the heavy 8 + was a fairly good accomplishment by itself.

Rested up (read woefully out of shape) and healed up, I am sorta toying with the Idea of Vancouver in the spring now.

if you did a 20 mile run you can do a marathon. the race doesn't start until mile 18-20 anyway. However, if you are injured don't run. If you are not injured you can still finish and that alone will be AWESOME!

Your call of course.

I say do it and enjoy. then you can say you are a marathoner.

Drew

Did it! i finished at the time I projected to finish.
you are right Drew... the race doesn't really start until the last 6-8 miles. I was ahead of my time for about 5 minutes when my legs got weak. what really got me is that I have a side stitch from mile 5 to finish, which I RARELY get. I am not really tired after the marathon. just very very sore.
would I do it again? you betcha. i'll probably have to do more cross training, and perhaps even do weights on my legs. I definitely want to have a faster time at my next marathon.
Again.. thank you for all the advice. It really helped me feel confident when I started the race.
All the best
jeff

Jeff

CONGRATS!!!!

Enjoy the high and make sure to recover for a few weeks. (up to 4, depending on your own fee)

You don't have to run unless you want to.

Glad you had a good time!

Best,

Drew

I'm thinking of doing a half marathon in a month and decided to take a ten-mile run yesterday. The longest I had ever gone until then was 7 miles.

My previous "training" (it was more like just exercising) for a recent 5K was to run six miles at an eight-minute pace every other day. Trying to do that two days in a row was not fun for my knees so I typically limited myself to light weight workouts on days off. If I start bumping the distance up for a half marathon prep, should I take an extra rest day? Do some kind of three-day rotation with 10-0-5? Do I need to do a full 13 miles before the race?

hello drew
update since last year.
after my oct 2009 marathon, i ran another full marathon apr 2010 and jul 2010 in SF. i am so hooked.
although i have to tell you that my time never improved. still a slow runner, and i pretty much accept that but i am still running under 5 hrs. never will qualify for boston or nyc, but i can live with it.
philly marathon this nov. this would probably my coldest race. excited... nervous, but having a blast with the current training.

my next goal... to do triathlon. 3 weeks ago, i can't swim properly, but now able to do laps---thanks to the patience of instructors at a local hs swimming class for adults. 5 more classes to go, so i know i have lots to learn but i am so enjoying it. so hopefully by next year, i can do a short triathlon. a bit ambitious to aim for it, but i am driven by goals and it helps me focus.

You can get fast, but getting fast takes work. Also to get fast you have to not always run/train for LONG distance races. Need to do lots of shorter races and get those faster (5-10K) then you can take that fitness and train for a 10,15, or 20 week cycle for a faster marathon!

Swimming in the Tri is usually about 10% of the race, so make sure you can finish the swim and you can keep your head on straight to do the bike/run.

Keep up the great work!!!

So happy for you!

Best,

Drew

I've done 6 full marathons in less than 2 years and I am going for my 7th in Philly this November... My ex (and best friend) was a former runner but never did a full marathon gave me a lecture about running and knee problems, and my massage therapist for more than a year has given me a long lecture as well about it and told me I should settle with half marathons to get the fill.
I almost told them to sock it, but thought maybe there should be a limit to how many marathons I should do in a year? I am now always training... So mostly I do 30 miles a week and it increases as I get a few weeks closer to the day of. I don't have knee pains, just sore foot at times... And I am particular about my running shie mileage etc... In 2012, I'm aiming to do 4... Too much? Just right? I'm happy doing this, but maybe my best friend and therapist maybe right?

You can do what you want, but your body will tell you the limits. I know. After training for marathons/ironman for 4 years my back said "you are done"! Running career over, limited biking and swimming.

Now for healthy limits, you say you are training all the time. Does that mean speed work, trying to improve times, etc? Every race must be a PR? There was a study done that intense periods of training can only be sucessfully done by normal (non-pro) athletes twice during a year. That would mean a 12-16 week period of intense training tying to improve rime/fitness. Also, within a year you can structure your many races and know some marathons are about enjoying the long run, others about speed. It is also important to realize that a marathon usually takes 3—4 weeks to recover. If you are running marathons and then one week later back to 30ish miles a week you are either gifted or running your marathon WAY too slow!;)

From one endurance athlete (former) to another, if you really want to get faster at marathon you need to do more shorter distance races and speed/interval training and have one or two "A" races every season.


However, if you are just racing because you love marathons, keep doing what you are doing until your body says, "ENOUGH". It will let you now.

Those are my thoughts. Go enjoy the runs!!

Best,

Drew

Hi Drew
Thanks for the advise. I'm not running for PR.. I run slow (5hrs) ... And really not planning on improving my time. As for the last marathon, I did take a full week off, then going for 10 miles this week and then go back to 30 and up.
I'll play it by ear for now... I do want to accrue at least 20 marathons before I turn 50. I have 8 more years to do 14 more... so sometime soon, I'll probably decrease my planned marathons to one or two per year.

Jeff