Great effort from Lance but at least one good thing is that at least now I won't have to be sick to my stomach of all the "Lance is superhuman" adoration that would've come had he won.

YES. You got that right. I read a solid authority talk about how cycling is the "dirtiest" sport there is, and that Armstrong is a doper, no question. I believe that now. Too bad. I don't like cheaters.
I feel like I was the last person to get a clue.

You're not alone, tealsea. For a long time I, too, wanted to believe Armstrong's story! But he's a cheater and a fraud!

Most of the American press knows or cares little about cycling, so all they do is gush over Lance. And third place in the Tour is no small accomplishment, regardless of the rider's age.

What I object to is his attitude. He bad-mouthed other riders (Vande Velde and Sastre specifically). He insisted he should be considered for team leader, even though he joined the team late and certainly was not the strongest rider. For a while he even made some noise about winning. His attitude did not help Contador or the team.

Cycling has a long and ugly history with doping, it's true. I can't count any more the times I've been disappointed that a favorite of mine tested positive. But I'm not convinced that qualifies it as "the dirtiest sport". It could be that cycling tests its athletes more rigorously and reports the results more openly. Compare that to what we've read about baseball in the last year.

Let's be fair to cycling here. As of today at least, there was not one single positive test in this year's race.

Just keeps getting worse for Lance. He prolly epitomizes (for the Europeans & everyone else) the "ugly American".

I feel I have missed something in this discussion. Aside from people's personal thoughts on Armstrong, is there evidence he has done doping or is this conjecture?

There may not yet be conclusive proof that Armstrong is a doper, but there is a strong whiff of suspicion. Only time will tell!
Oh, No! Not Our Boy Lance!

Cue Linda Ronstadt's "Poor, Poor, Pitiful Me!"

Phony Lance

Divided Opinion

It's conjecture, Tom. He never tested positive, and that's the only concrete standard we have.

The conjecture is based on circumstantial evidence.

Most of the top riders for at least the past two generations have tested positive or admitted to doping: Riis, Zabel, Vinokourov, Ullrich, Miller, Pantani, Vironque just off the top of my head. A significant number are former teammates at Postal: Hamilton, Heras, Andreau, Landis. The idea that one heroic champion was clean amidst all the cheaters doesn't make sense to some fans.

There have been allegations all along: drugs found in Postal's garbage, testimony in a law suit, irregularities in testing procedures applied to this one athlete. Some people have an ax to grind, some people want to make money selling books on this subject. I have no idea how to evaluate all this information.

We know that athletes can beat the tests. David Miller's case proved that conclusively. Still, without a positive test, fans are left to guess for themselves.

Re. cycling being THE dirtiest sport, I was referring to what the writer had said. I don't know which sport would rise to the top. Baseball seems right up there, but football players ... geez they are huge and aggressive and then they stop because it's such a brutal sport. And being seasonal, I would think they could use steroids and have it out of their system by training camp time.
I've heard many of them use DMSO, which a lot of people know nothing about.

Thanks dasher; I'm familiar with those stories. I follow some sports news closely and I was thinking I missed a new relevation on this subject. I don't care for Armstrong tone I've read in his books but he's a great athlete. Drugs may be part of that and I don't have an opinion.