Anybody here into rugby? I think it's the greatest sport ever...and you get into very close contact... Anyway, any other rugger out there, let's talk.

Miamidude! Hi!

My hottest (not necessarily most intimate, although he was truly a sweet, gentle hunk) evening was with a rugby player when we were in college.

Italian-American, with dark, curly hair and looked a lot like Ontkean would have at that age, if Ontkean had hit the weights regularly.

I'm sure that you know that rugby is the parent of American football.....

I have actually had relations with two rugby men in my life - the second one: an African national of Iranian descent.

Anyway, rugby is/was too tough for me to play in college and I would only consider it today if I were able to join a gay/LGBT-friendly team.

bluebird:

there are several all-gay rugby clubs in the country, maybe you can find one in your area...
check out hte site
www.igrab.net
that's the site for international gay rugby.

oh, and by the way, those teams are not all-gay. They vary from all-inclusive, to multi-cultural, to diverse, but I'm pretty sure they all have some straight prescence.

I know that my team, the Renegades, has about a half a dozen straight guys, and we wouldn't have it any other way. They are totally cool, and bring some stability to the rest of us.

Love the name "igrab." I suppose the pun is deliberate.

yes...and it's better than the original name:

Gay International Rugby League: GIRL

Too funny!!

I notice the closest member teams to Philadelphia are New York and Washington. Maybe now that they've caught the snipper I'll have an excuse to renew old acquaintances in the DC area.

When local U.S. clubs play rugby, is it league or union (scrums)? I have watched the U.S. team (and Canada) play world cup qualifiers and that has been union.

What's the easiest way to tell the difference? I think in Ian Roberts bio, it was mentioned that there was a class distinction in the origins (League is lower, Union upper?) but not much said about the rules difference. League players seem to look a bit lighter weight in general. Is that true or just my perception. (I also find League players more attractive)

And separately, isn't League more popular?

Union is the most common world rugby game. If you see the players (forwards) going into scrum position, that happens only in union.

League is a game of more "working class" support, but that is sometimes too simplistic because in some countries there is only union rugby.

League is a faster game without scrums than union, but not nearly as frantic as Aussie rules--which is derived from gaelic football. And while in trivia, the U.S. used to be very respectable at rugby in the late 19th century.

Someone will know what version U.S. clubs play.

You've peaked my curiosity now about why only in the USA has the old english football evolved into something that requires a lot of padding.

Since this brief history of American Football doesn't answer that question directly, it leaves open the possiblity that there is a cultural difference at play.

Apparently all the padless sports have developed rules, both written and unwritten, that prevent the kind of serious injuries that plagued early American Football.

Perhaps this is a comment on our culture. I wonder is it more civil to leave off the gloves (pads) and fight with restraint or put them on and go more all out.

I wonder if the injury rate and quality of long-term health vary for the descendants of the original football sport.

[ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: sportinlife ]

and to be honest...the easiest way to tell the difference is by the uniforms...

union rugby, which is what is played in the US and what you are probably most familiar with, has cotton jerseys, similar to what is sold at Old Navy....

rugby league has a synthetic (I forget the term, kinda like spandex) shirt, kinda like what goalies where...

Oh, so maybe that's why they look better. Tighter fit to show themselves off more?

There's that class thing again: cotton = more traditional?

Also union players always look heavier, stockier. Is that so? Why? Just the fit maybe?

Union players are larger (again, the forwards) because they need the mass to move the scrum forward. There is no need for the mass in league except for tackles.

Aha! So forwards are like the down linemen in AF. These would be those big guys who probably have the worst long-term health problems because of their weight too, just like in AF.

Forgive my preoccupation with health of sports figures but it's a personal interest since I work in the pharmaceutical business. (maybe I should duck when I say that. )

So who's the equivalent of quarterback, or is there one?

well, I don't know if the health issues are equivalent, because while the forwards are big, we are talking 250, not 350. and while I can't be certain, I don't think that steroid use is as big of an issue...

and in terms of the quarterback, I would probably say the scrumhalf or flyhalf, they both kinda direct the offense...

I never understood U.S. football, so don't know equivalent for quarterback. Here are rugby positions, roughly from forward to backs.
Front Row
1. prop
2. hooker
3. prop
Second Row
4. lock
5. lock
Loose Forwards
6. flanker (blindside)
7. flanker (open)
8. number 8
Halves
9. half back
10. 1st 5/8 (flyhalf)
Centre
11. 2nd 5/8 (inside centre)
12. centre
13. wing 3/4
14. wing 3/4
15. full back

Alright, Union are classy guys in loose cotton rugby jerseys forming a scrum lead by a scrumhalf or flyback, grabbing each others crotches to form a tighter wall.

Sounds like a heckuva lotta fun. Still I think I'd rather be a wing. Sorta like a reciever maybe?

I've never seen an overhand throw in the pictures so they must advance by underhand tosses and kicks. Don't think I'd want to fly in front of someone to block a kick with no cup for protection. Do these guys ever get serious wallops by a foot in the cajones?

BTW - looked up scrum and it's a variation on scrimmage (like "line of scrimmage" in AF.)

there is definitely a strong but friendly rivalry between forwards and backs in rugby...the forwards feel they do all the dirty work and the backs get all the glory by scoring...sounds kinda like football, huh?

and the backs feel like the forwards always f**k up and never get them the ball...

and I am a forward...

In the scrum the locks already have you by the balls basically right? ..and the backs want the ball? I wont ask what you get out of this.

Another difference between Rugby Union and Rugby League is in their origin...

Rugby Union was the original game and it was only an amateur sport. Not too long ago (maybe somebody out there can help me with the dates...?) there was a move towards profesionalism in rugby. That was not very well received by the ruling people and those that advocated profesionalism were thrown out of the organization. They then created their own version of the sport and called it Rugby League. So Rugby League was born as a profesional sport as opposed to Rugby Union that was amateur only.

The rules of Rugby League are slightly different to the ones in Rugby Union, making it (maybe) a faster sport...mainly, there is no scrum.

As years passed the Rugby Union realized that the future of the sport was in turning profesional. Now there are several profesional Rugby Union teams...Many national teams are profesional. The American national team, the Eagles is made mostly of amateur players with a few profesionals that play in Europe.

Yes there is a constant rivalry between forwards and backs...Forwards think that backs are all a bunch of pretty boys that benefit form the hard work of the forwards...(I am a forward).

Oh, and there is no overhand throw if by that you mean a forward throw like the quarterbacks do in American Football. All throws in both versions of rugby are backwards...

Your friendly hooker, Andy

Okay, I'm going to my first ever Rugby practice tonight? Any advice??? Anyone in Outsports land play? I went to watch the Portland Avalanche Tourney this wekend and introduced myself to the coach. She punched my chest and said "Damn, you're a solid Bitch, you better be at practice Monday night".

So any words of wisdom for this old guy? wink

Tonka, do you play the Seattle team? Maybe I should play?

Yea. We just played them Saturday. I would relish the opportunity to tackle you on a muddy field! wink

So I survived last night, although I found mud in places I didn't think could get muddy while fully clothed. Also, parts of me are soret hat haven't been sore in a while. But all in all, it was a total blast. Pouring rain, cold temps, muddy field...loved every minute of it.

Hey fellow ruggers! Play for Cornell in NY. Am a forward prop. Love the game! Drop me an email, will be out in phoenix on Thurs, Nov. 4-8th for invitational matches, later Richard

Tonka, got to love this game. Nothing like driving forward for your first try on the pitch! Hope your experience was fantastic as I remember mine. I think I was sore for a few days after though, thats when the beer kicks in, Free Beer for all the ruggers!
Laters, RuggerProp1

Okay went to my third practice last night. Got used as a tackling dummy for part of it. Man am I sore today... Or it could have been the push ups for missing tackles/losing the ball during drills.

Did I mention I played my first match last Saturday. We didn't win, but I had fun playing and have some sexy bruises to prove it. We got beat up by a big straight team from Olympia, Washington.

We have one more match til the end of the season on Nov 13th.

Glad you liked the game - moving to the UK in December - might see if i can teach the Poms a thing or two about the game....

keep practising, and may you all find your own Daniel Carter in the ruck

somewhere once I saw a photo of a rugby (?) player whose last name is Red....Redman, no, Redhook, no; I can't remember. But the photo was pretty provocative--him sitting in the bleachers sporting hard wood, like a joke to his buddies. Does anyone know who this is?

You got to be around the game of rugby long enough to understand that stuff like this happens quite a bit(Male horseplay, sexual playfulness etc.). I just played a weekend with the boys and got harrassed quite a bit, albeit friendly and some kind of funny. Don't worry can hold my own, and am definately able to give it right back. Will ask about "Redhook" and will let you know what I find.
Later rugger

Don't know... will this do for now...

http://www.gaysports.com/page.cfm?Sectioni...&snippetset=yes

I think the caption should be...

"Dammit no, I told you to wait until after the match"

Chuckle ;->

Rob

On my way from Sydney to Auckland, I was on the plane with the Bulldogs Rugby team. I sat next to Tony Grimaldi and Corey Hughes. These guys were incredible. We spoke about rugby and the differences in Rugby Union and Rugby League in Australia. I was suprised that they were so friendly. Tony had 6 stitches in his nose, but he was still very hot.

Ironic that the colors of the tackler look the same as those of the Springboks of South Africa. Just read interesting story about SA rugger Ashwin Williamse in the Guardian Weekly.

Wish him well with avoiding recidvism into gang life. That can be a lot more difficult and dangerous to leave than, say, coming out of the closet.

Here's a few photos of his remaining tattoos and some other more interesting ones of him playing the game.

Unfortuantely, for USA at least, they are in the same pool with SA and England in the Cup and while England are not their usual dominating influence in Rugby Union, South Africa is absolutely kicking butt. I don't see USA making it to the knockout rounds.

Quaterfinals are set:

06 Oct - 15:00 Australia - England Marseille
06 Oct - 21:00 New Zealand - France Cardiff
07 Oct - 15:00 South Africa - Fiji Marseille
07 Oct - 21:00 Argentina - Scotland Saint-Denis


My heart and mind are in conflict, with my lust lurking behind.

Mind says Aussies, NZ, SA and Argentina (by a smidgen).

Heart says England, France, SA and Scotland.

Lust wants England, France, SA and Argentina.

Gonna go with my mind. But watch with my lust, and all of my heart.

My mind, heart and lust all belong to New Zealand. Go All Blacks!

Totally blasted! That's what my mind is after the upsets of NZ and the Aussies. The down-unders are really downunder today.

With the tight scores I would chalk it up to home advantage. Only a couple of sights are in the UK I think but that still counts as home. At least the northern hemisphere is home...sorta.

Oh to have been in Marseille for the England win! Love that town. Like a little French north africa. No color goes unblessed with looks of the men in that part of the world.

Now it's a battle of heart and lust in the RSA v Fiji and Scots v Argentines matches. With my luck Fiji will pull yet another upset. SA is on a role though.

The Scots and Argentines is going to be the beauty contest of the quarterfinals: well-matched I suspect.

Ok, looks like lust wins. So I think I'll just flow with my horny instincts in rooting for my perfect finale:

France v Argentina

would not only be a fantastic game but the commemorative nude calendar would be OFF THE CHARTS!!!

Since they advertised the Cup with a poster of rugby players coming out of the scrum kissing a little ole nude calendar should be a natural follow-up.

Now if I could just convince stodgy England and RSA to cooperate.

I'd be surprised if it weren't France vs. South Africa, but you never know.

A friend and I were there for the USA-South Africa match in Montpellier on Sept. 30 (we got back from France on Sunday). The Eagles got killed. At one point late in the match, the Springboks looked as if they were trying not to score. Kinda embarassing. I think South Africa is going all the way.

There were hundreds of South Africans at the match and very few Americans.

The final attendance was about 30,400; I'd say the stadium held about 32,000 people, so it was a pretty good turnout.

We had rented a house for 1 week in a village called Mudaison, a 30-minute drive east of Montpellier. The house is surrounded by apple orchards, vineyards and an olive grove. The village was about 200 yards away, and didn't have much except a bakery, a grocery store, a drugstore, a restaurant, a pizza joint, a tabac, and a restaurant. It felt like another world, yet were were only a short drive from one of France's biggest cities.

Montpellier's old quarter is gorgeous, and it's a mystery to me why it's not better known to travellers. We had hoped to get tickets to a match in Bordeaux, Lyon or Marseilles, but everything with either the Americans or the other major teams (New Zealand, Australia, etc.) was sold out. But, as I said, the city is beautiful and we were very happy to see it and stay so close by. During the week that we were there, we also drove to Avignon, Arles, Aigues Morte, Stes.-Marie-de-la-Mer, Pezenas and the Abbaye de Valmagne, a 12th century Cistercian monastery that was turned into a winery after the French Revolution. Bought a bottle for 8 euros, which I'll probably serve at Christmas dinner. My friend Jim brought back 3 bottles. Fortunately, all the wine made it back safely!

Driving in the south of France was a bit stressful because they don't have intersections with traffic lights -- nothing but roundabouts/circles. On the drive from the train station in Montpellier to the house, I drove through more circles than I'd ever driven through in my life. But they're not bad once you get used to them. You have to yield to traffic that's already in the circle, and everyone obeys this rule. In fact, the French aren't crazy drivers at all, but I will say that they're very aggressive on the freeways, and aren't shy about flashing their headlights at you if they think you're driving too slowly. The speed limit is 110 kph, but they cheerfully ignore it.

The owner of the house where we stayed, Alain, also has in Montpellier what the French call an hotel particulere, an urban mansion-townhouse. On our last day there, he showed us the renovations he's in the process of doing to the house -- he's turning the lower floors into a boutique hotel: 3 suites, 2 rooms. It was built in 1777 and acquired by his grandmother's grandfather in 1829, and has been in his family ever since. He, his wife, and their 3 toddlers live on the top 4th floor. Who knows, maybe we'll go back next year.

Then it was back to Paris for the last 3 nights of the trip. The city had set up big screens in several public squares around town for the quarter-finals. We watched the Australia-England match on Sat. afternoon in front of the Hotel de Ville (city hall). That was an ugly, nasty game. No love lost at all between those two teams. After dinner we watched the second half of the France-New Zealand at a gay bar full of drunken French rugby fans (yes, that' redundant), all chanting, "Allez les bleus!" (Go Blues).

So where's the next cup being held?

I'm absolutely GREEN with envy. And that first line I quote would have my partner moving there in a New York minute so I'm glad he's not reading this (or at least I hope not).

The French drivers are terrorist - and not much short of the real thing for him - so the rest might put him off.

As for the next cup And my partner's an Aussie who hates sports.

The next Rugby Union cup is in New Zealand, I think.

Thanks. I corrected that link.

And of course the next BINGHAM gay rugby cup is being held in Dublin, Ireland next June. http://www.BinghamCup.com

Damn, you have no idea how much I want to go to NZ to see the All Blacks in action...maybe next year...that world cup sure would be a great time!

Forgive me while I gush.

England v. France was the first time I've seen virtually an entire rugby match beginnig to end (excluding a few scoreless minutes at the beginning of the second half).

I think I must have been hypnotized by the beauty and grace of a bunch of bears lifting one of their own in what looks like slow-motion even in real time (perhaps the only way such a feat could be accomplished by such massive men) toward a pinnacle to grasp or tap an oblong bit of pigskin (or whatever they're made of).

The effect is Wagnerian, nay Mozartian. Think the magnificent aria Soave Sia Il Vento from Cosi fan tutti and you could get a feel for the impact the sight had upon this novice - this virtual virgin - to the mysterious charms of the line-out.

I may have to miss the start of the Pats v. Cowboys game to see the RSA v. Argentina match now.

Yee Gads!

You'll just miss lots of advertising with a bit of football inbetween.

Actually saw enough of the Pats and Boys to know that T. Brady and the gang still seem to be on a mission, despite getting a serious scare in the first half, and allowing more points than they have in a single game before this year.

Back to Boks v. Pumas. What a fun game to watch, even if the Pumas were obviously outplayed. Those guys look like they think their playing soccer sometimes - all over the field and hustling like nobody's business. Hugely enjoyable. I didn't expect either team to win this game scoring under 15 points. Playoffs are pretty conservative defensive affairs in all sports but Argentina just doesn't seem to go in for that.

For the Boks, I was very impressed with Habana. The guy could have played for any NFL team had he been born in the USA. Totally explosive when he touches the ball. And upper body like a Mack truck. Cute the way he winks at the camera too.

Wonder who the real winkee is.

Don't know if I'll see the final but it should be really good. I'm perfect so far: Neither team I chose made it to the final. All the more fun to watch though. Looks like it will be an interesting variation on the Boer Wars with the Brits and the Boks. But a very different RSA this time. It was pretty incredible and inspiring to see every single Bok player full-throatedly singing the RSA anthem in Zulu, them being Afrikaans-descent.

I realize this post is out of season and doubt anyone will read it but I have to ask. Can Rugby make it in the US? My first Rugby match was the world cup final in Paris. I occassionally hung out with the Rugby team in college but never attended a match. They even suggested I play with them but I was way too thin.

What a great sport! Sexy players, gentlemen fans, who could ask for anything more! I was with some Irish clients and all the Irish applauded Argentina when they did their victory lap. Then everyone partied together after the game. When I road the Paris metro home the Irish fans started singing to the Argentines "don't cry for me Argentina" The Argentines loved it!

At least one person is reading you Thom. And I think Rugby could make it in the USA if it could be played at the elementary school level, like soccer. But I am not so sure parents would want their kids playing football without helmets or pads. Also a new sport would draw fans away from the current seasonal money-earners.

We're a litigous country. Soccer is safer, both physically and legally.

Also I suspect that growth enhancing chemicals are consumed as much by ruggers as any other sport where bulk and strength are an advantage. We can't even get rid of it in baseball, much less the more physically stessful games. It would be one more health concern for parents.

If the sport can't become wildly popular at a "Pop Warner" level it has a hard row to hoe to get any higher up.

I like rugby because it seems more "honest" as a sport: no-pads direct contact enforces a certain civility and self-restraint. I noticed the camaraderie, not only between teammates but between players on opposite teams. I think that has a lot to do with the direct no-cover physical contact. You have to learn to respect others more and not resort to going home to get a gun (or lawyer) or something over a flagrant foul.

For the same reason wrestling is not one of the "big" four sports here, rugby may not quite fit our way of life.

The Six Nations Tournament is underway.

http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/home.php