Outsports Discussion Board > Duke's Men's Lacrosse Rape Allegations

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gmginsfo

May 16 2006, 03:44 PM

Unfortunately, SIB, it's more accurate to say that most debates in American society have been dumbed- or diatribed-down to race and socio-economic status, usually to the point of overshadowing the actual issue.

That "small down town" DA's hardly as humble as some would make him out to be, especially since he has the force of the law behind him. I was impressed with the third indictee's statement of innocence. If for nothing else, I admire his courage to tell it like it is from his perspective. His statement went Hillary Clinton's on "The Today Show" one better by saying not just "let 'em prove it," but offering an unqualified - and credible - denial of guilt.

Let's get on with the trial!

millerbeach

May 17 2006, 01:41 AM

Well, well, well. It looks like she was friendly with her boyfriend after all....

http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/story...=1958031&page=1

Looks like all the Lacrosse boys are off the hook. Thank God for DNA testing...it sure knocks the gust out of the sails of liars!

Ms. de Blazer

May 17 2006, 09:25 AM

I see. A woman has sex, therefore she cannot be raped. Only virgins are raped, after all.

Bryan

May 17 2006, 06:52 PM

And as we all know, people in desperate sorted situations never lie...

jsieds

May 17 2006, 07:16 PM

QUOTE

millerbeach:
Well, well, well. It looks like she was friendly with her boyfriend after all....

http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/story...8031&page=1

Looks like all the Lacrosse boys are off the hook. Thank God for DNA testing...it sure knocks the gust out of the sails of liars!

From the article you cited:

QUOTE

Experts say that the absence of conclusive DNA evidence would not necessarily be a fatal blow to the prosecution's case. They cite a figure stating that 75 percent to 80 percent of rape prosecutions do not involve forensic evidence such as DNA.

Was this too far into the article for you to read it?

millerbeach

May 17 2006, 11:16 PM

I guess you didn't read any further than the first page. Try re-reading the article...it goes on to explain the quote you highlighted in pages two, three and four. Look to the bottom of the article to see there are four pages.

Ms. de Blazer

May 18 2006, 09:17 AM

I was responding to what YOU said, millerbeach.

Well, well, well. It looks like she was friendly with her boyfriend after all....
Looks like all the Lacrosse boys are off the hook. Thank God for DNA testing...it sure knocks the gust out of the sails of liars!

You said that she being friendly with her boyfriend "after all" (what does after all mean, that she should not have had sex with him if she wanted to be raped later on?) that the "lacrosse boys" (yes, those sweet innocent "boys") are off the hook. Your statement.
DNA testing does not prove anyone was lying, BTW. It only shows whether or not someone's DNA was present. But of course if your starting point is that she is black trash and women pretty much just make up rape...

jsieds

May 18 2006, 11:29 AM

QUOTE

millerbeach:
I guess you didn't read any further than the first page. Try re-reading the article...it goes on to explain the quote you highlighted in pages two, three and four. Look to the bottom of the article to see there are four pages.

I have no opinion as to the innocence of guilt of the alleged perpetrators. I do however have an opinion about misrepresentation. I have read the article. I have reread the article. I do not believe that the article presents arguements backing the statements you made on the innocence of the alleged perpetrators. For your convenience the entire article follows:

QUOTE

Duke Lacrosse DNA: Mystery Man Revealed
Accuser's Boyfriend is 'Single Source' of DNA on Vaginal Swab
By CHRIS CUOMO, GERRY WAGSCHAL, CHRIS FRANCESCANI and LARA SETRAKIAN
May 13, 2006 — - The second round of DNA test results in the Duke University rape investigation show "no conclusive match'' to any lacrosse players, defense attorneys said, but a vaginal swab of the alleged rape victim produced DNA from a "single male source'' -- a man not on the lacrosse team who did not attend a March 13 party that was the site of the alleged rape.

Defense attorney Joe Cheshire declined to identify the mystery man or his connection to the alleged victim, but ABC News' Law and Justice Unit has learned that the unnamed source of the DNA is the alleged victim's "boyfriend," according to her mother.

ABC News is withholding the name of the man because he is apparently not a target of the investigation. Records indicate that Durham, N.C., police gave the "boyfriend'' a cheek swab to collect DNA on May 3, ABC News' Law and Justice Unit has learned exclusively.

It is unclear if or how the first DNA tests missed what appears to be the only foreign genetic material found on the alleged victim's body, defense attorneys said. Two Duke lacrosse players were indicted more than two weeks before the cheek swab was taken from the "boyfriend."

It is also unclear whether the alleged victim had sex with the "boyfriend" the night she claims to have been raped by three Duke lacrosse players. DNA experts tell ABC News that genetic traces of semen can remain in the body up to six days after intercouse.

Defense attorneys declined to release the actual report, saying that it contained the name of the "single male source.''

Durham District Attorney Mike Nifong did not return a call to his home Friday night requesting his reaction to the defense attorneys' press conference. Nifong has said recently that he would be undeterred by a lack of conclusive DNA evidence.

Experts say that the absence of conclusive DNA evidence would not necessarily be a fatal blow to the prosecution's case. They cite a figure stating that 75 percent to 80 percent of rape prosecutions do not involve forensic evidence such as DNA.

"The truth is if you speak to crime lab directors, they will tell you that in only a relatively small number of cases is there any DNA evidence," said Peter Neufeld, co-founder and co-director of the Innocence Project, which uses DNA to free people wrongly imprisoned. "In rape cases, there is an expectation of DNA. But like many expectations, often it is misplaced."

According to defense attorneys, neither Colin Finnerty nor Reade Seligmann, the two men charged, appear anywhere in the latest report. The two were charged with rape, kidnapping and sexual assault. None of either men's DNA has turned up in any test results, defense attorneys said.

Chesire conceded Friday that the results show that genetic material from beneath a plastic fingernail recovered from a garbage can at the scene of the alleged crime has "some characteristics'' of "one or two'' players' DNA, but that none of the tests show any conclusive matches. He acknowledged that the report names a third player, but declined to identify that player.

On Thursday, ABC News reported that prosecutors believe they have DNA evidence that could link a third player to the alleged attack.

Sources close to the investigation did not claim the material under the plastic fingernail was a conclusive match -- only that it would be "helpful'' to the prosecution. The player whose genetic material was found under the fake fingernail is the same player who was identified in a photo lineup by the alleged victim with "90 percent" certainty, sources said.

Nifong has said he hopes to charge a third player in the alleged rape. Defense attorneys say they are bracing for another indictment -- which could come as early as Monday.

"Monday, the grand jury is going to … consider indicting yet another of these young men,'' Chesire said. "And the travesty of justice, and the ripping apart of a community, and the intentional fractionalization of races will continue."

The fake fingernail was found inside a garbage can in the bathroom of the off campus home where the party was thrown. The garbage can also contained tissues, Q-Tips, and other materials, defense lawyers said. They said that players removed the plastic nail from the garbage and gave it to police.

"Is that consistent with someone that knowledgeably and knowingly committed a rape?" Cheshire said. "That they would leave fingernails that were ripped off a person in a violent struggle in their trash can after they're told there's an investigation and that police were going to come to their house -- and when the police do, they give them the fingernails?"

Copyright © 2006 ABC News Internet Ventures

Ms. de Blazer

May 18 2006, 12:28 PM

Exactly.
The article said she apparently had sex, presumably consensual, with her boyfriend. And based on physiology, it could have been up to 6 days before the relevant night. Then you get a long quote from the defense attorney, hardly unbiased.
The problem is that in these cases the DA does not present his/her case in advance. What we, the public, get then is a skewed view as the defense can say basically anything. Much of what they say has absolutely nothing to do with the one relevant question: did these men rape this woman?
Instead they are simply trashing her character. We don't know if what they say is true or not; some of it has been shown to be untrue. Obviously they have been successful, looking at this board and others who have proclaimed the woman "guilty".
But nothing said has anything to do with the answer to the one relevant question, did these men rape this woman? Fact is, none of us know the answer to that question.
Saying this article proves she is lying is like MIB saying some rant proves global warming is an invention of radical ecoterrorists. It doesn't.

millerbeach

May 18 2006, 10:58 PM

Boy, it sure doesn't take much to get you going. If the DNA doesn't fit, then we must acquit! Why is it so hard to believe these Lacrosse boys didn't rape her? No DNA of theirs was found.

HotlantaTarheel

May 19 2006, 07:13 AM

So how could this woman have sex with her boyfriend 6 days earlier and still have his DNA present, but not have any DNA present from 3 guys who supposedly gang raped her for 30 minutes that very night?

And in response to this:

QUOTE

They cite a figure stating that 75 percent to 80 percent of rape prosecutions do not involve forensic evidence such as DNA.

Yes, that's because a rape case/accusation could take place months after the incident and therefore no DNA evidence is available, but a case can still be held. However, in this situation, there is DNA evidence and its either negative or non-conclusive, thats a big difference. The comment above is just a statement by the DA to spin (mis-represent) the importance of DNA evidence.

Ms. de Blazer

May 19 2006, 09:09 AM

QUOTE

I don't claim to know. I have not seen/heard the evidence. For that matter, neither have all those who proclaim the "boys" innocent and the woman a lying whore. None of us know. So far the stage has been held pretty much exclusively by one side.
Trials are supposedly for determining guilt or innocence, not talk shows or tabloid rumors.

UCLAfan

Dec 22 2006, 03:02 PM

It seems that the rape charges against the Duke players have been dropped, with insufficient evidence to sustain a conviction. I suppose this was coming, especially after it was revealed that the accuser was a $2 hooker who slept with everyone except the Duke lacrosse team by what the DNA evidence showed.

Edited to include:
Wow! Now she's changing her story like a manual transmission. You'll forgive me if I hold this woman's story to the credibility of the Bush Regime; she has none left. I think her drive to be in the spotlight has given new meaning to that phrase "attention whore".

mdterp01

Dec 22 2006, 04:15 PM

I must admit I rushed to judgment in this case but I have surely learned my lesson. What an idiot this girl is. You, a black stripper, go after 3 white boys who go to Duke (waspy elite university in the south) and are on the lacrosse team. I just couldn't fathom at the beginning that this girl was lying. But hell...after the first few days when more and more stuff started coming out that raised questions it seemed like this chick wasn't being honest. How terrible for women that it has happened to that this heifer is gonna lie about it. She should be HORSE WHIPPED!!!

UCLAfan

Dec 30 2006, 05:59 PM

I saw on MSNBC this morning that the prosecutor in this case, Nifong, is being investigated for potential disbarment proceedings. How interesting is this?

UCLAfan

Jan 12 2007, 06:09 PM

DA Mike Nifong's entire case is unraveling as he seeks to recuse himself from this case. I think it's about time! Any hope for a conviction has long since evaporated. Holy cow!

I wonder how it is that this man has stayed on this case for so long and in a seemingly unethical manner to make the case stick to the Duke lacrosse team members. Any credibility he had evaporated when his case against those young men went up in smoke. When will he issue his apology? Will it be the same time W issues his apology for lying to Congress to go to war in Iraq?

jaragonus

Jan 29 2007, 07:27 PM

This case was use for political purposes. She should have called Al Sharptom to help her.

George Twins fan

Feb 25 2007, 01:29 PM

The Duke lacrosse team began their 2007n season that almost wasn't with a 17-11 win over Dartmouth.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2778218

mdterp01

Feb 25 2007, 04:05 PM

Hopefully these players can play well this season and put the nonsense that should've never happened behind them. Talk about destroying people's lives and leaving an entire sports program in question.

Frank Bruno

Feb 25 2007, 11:19 PM

Personally, I don't give a flying f*ck about a bunch of rich snobs who make no bones about the fact that they yelled at a black woman "HEY TELL YOUR GRANDFATHER THANKS FOR THE COTTON SHIRT!!" on the night in question. They can dispute the rape allegations, but they don't seem to have any desire to dispute the fact that their privileged stature in society apparently has afforded them a great deal of personal ethical leeway. Yes, this woman lied: that much is true. But that doesn't mean that the accused, or their unaccused teammates who I saw on ESPN this morning, AREN'T ass****s. Whether they raped her or not doesn't hide the fact that they embarrassed their school with behaviors that went far beyond rape allegations. Let's not forget the email that "joked" about killing the woman, or the many undisputed racist remarks at the party, or the incident of fag-bashing that one of the 3 initiated up in DC a few months ago. The specific rape allegations were reason enough for embarrassment, but the collapse of this woman's accusations doesn't mean I have to be subjected to caring about the "return" of the lacrosse team at Duke. I don't understand why they are even on the news, except to prolong a sad and sordid episode that alot of people down here are trying desperately to overcome on many fronts. As for the players themselves, f*ck all of them, their popped-collar buddies, their prep-school mumsies, and the rich New York attorneys on daddy's blackberry who will drop everything at a moments' notice to bail junior out of trouble. What a sad day it is when we are made to feel sorry for the six-figure-income nobility and their spoiled-brat offspring who pollute our society and schools with their filthy antics and rub the rest of our noses in their aristocratic bullshit. Parading around Durham in their Lexuses like French absolute monarchs, pimpin' black strippers and watching themselves get "vindicated" on ESPN. They don't call it "Duke" for nothin'.

mdterp01

Feb 26 2007, 02:23 AM

Good points Frank. I didn't know about the racist comments. That puts a different spin on things for me. I will say though that hiring a stripper is not illegal and neither is making racist comments. Its despicable and ignorant but its not illegal. What this woman lied about has legal ramifications and if I were one of their rich daddies you better believe I'd be on my blackberry trying to get my son out of trouble. Thats what I'd expect a parent to do. Do I feel "sorry" for them per se. No. However, they were accused of the worst violation a man can do to a woman and from everything that has come out, it shows that there was no rape. Duke has a longstanding history, like many elite universities, of institutional racism. I can't stand Duke as an institution, however I don't care what color you are. No one should lie about being raped. Consequences should be given and have been given for the inapppropriate behavior regarding the party itself, but had this woman not lied there would have been no reason for the season to have been canceled last year.

To add, as someone who grew up privileged I'm tired of being made to feel bad that my parents were successful and have money. Yeah we have access and advantages that most people don't but my parents earned that shit and people of privilege should not be made to feel bad because we enjoy that money. Would you rather they ride around town in Saturns and wear Target clothes? (forgive me if I offended anyone who drives a Saturn and wears Target clothes but I'm tryin to make a point) I mean come on. I'll be the first to admit that I'm bourgeoise but I'm not a snob, and there is a difference. To the snobs I say f*ck them too because you shouldn't think you are superior over anyone and you shouldn't avoid people based on class. I don't think I'm better than anyone else because my parents made sure to keep me grounded, but I definitely have my elitist ways. I think that when you grow up around money and those with it, its hard trying to be "down to earth". The kids can't be blamed for what their parents did. American society is very much about the haves and the have nots. With people who have money its so much about "oh they've got the 2005 Range Rover and not the 2007." Thats how petty it is but thats how a lot of it is. For a lot of these kids, how do you expect them to be when thats what they see and hear growing up in their neighborhoods? Its up to the parents to teach them that they are not better because of the money they have, and it is up to the parents to expose them to environments in which people don't have much. So I can't be mad at those kids for acting a way that their parents taught them to be. Its the parents who are at fault.

Frank Bruno

Feb 26 2007, 08:54 AM

That is true. Their parents raised them to be what they are, so we shouldn't be surprised.

But they are young adults. The cord needs to be cut sometime. And I wonder what the outcome of their childhood experiences will be once they have that 21st birthday.

Rape isn't something to mess with. She lied. And they will be exonerated, sure enough.

But for the public to instantly forget the context of these allegations, and to dismiss the other tangential events taking place on that team (never mind the fag bashing incident - the team had already established a sorry reputation for its collective behavior) is sort of sad.

As far as sources, I think the Raleigh paper had one good series of well-written articles a while back about the climate on that campus and the perception of Dukies as children of privilege. Being privileged definitely doesn't make you an ass. But using that privilege as a shield to deflect criticism about your neanderthal behavior is going too far. And that's what I have seen all along in this story.

mdterp01

Feb 26 2007, 09:07 AM

Agree with all of that Frank

NoLongerHere

Feb 28 2007, 11:11 AM

Duke appointed a faculty-led review panel to "examine campus culture" in the wake of the controversy. The panel has announced "recommendations," which are pretty much what we would all expect. Also as expected, there has been an uproar in response.

The report, which I have only skimmed, critiques several areas of campus life including curriculum issues, faculty-student interaction, residence life and social life, and of course athletics. Some of the stats are astounding: 44% of Black students at Duke report some form of discrimination *on campus* during their second year of college.

Some of the recommendations include: 1) requiring students to take at least one course in "diversity" before they graduate (many other schools do have a similar graduation requirement), 2) increasing admissions standards for student athletes, and 3) addressing student alcohol abuse more comprehensively (by providing more treatment services, coordinating more education and outreach, and providing more alcohol-free social events).

The most contentious recommendation will be changes to the housing system. The panel recommends that fraternities and sororities no longer get priority or special treatment in the housing assignment process.

The Vice Provost chaired the committee and over a dozen faculty and senior academic administrators were involved. On one hand, I was impressed by the faculty involvement. On the other hand, I had to wonder if the Director of Duke's Institute for Genome Ethics, Law & Policy didn't have bigger issues to occupy his time.

I've always worked in higher ed, so I'm very interested that this issue has captured the attention of the faculty and academic deans. Of course, critics of the report have noted that some of the faculty involved are notably anti-fraternity and athletics (some of them signed an ad last year condemning racism and sexism as the rape allegations unfolded).

The report: http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/reports/ccireport.pdf

Tennis Guy

Mar 25 2007, 11:52 AM

QUOTE(gmginsfo @ May 16 2006, 04:44 PM)

No kidding!

This thread is downright embarrassing.

It's amazing to me how so many posters here had convicted these guys before any evidence or facts were actually reported on. And ironically ("ironically" is such a polite word, I refrained from using "hypocritically") on a board where most, if not all of us, posting are gay.

As gay people, we all know the hard end of the proverbially ugly prejudice stick, and yet, look how many people wielded prejudice sticks of their own...just as hatefully, and just as ignorantly.

A female poster on the board assumed guilt immediately because the alleged perpetrators were men.

A black poster on the board assumed guilt immediately because the alleged perpetrators were white.

Another poster on the board assumed guilt immediately because the alleged perpetrators probably came from affluent families.

Even when those pesky little inconveniences known as actual evidence and facts prove their innocence, two of the three I've mentioned above were STILL convicting them here on this board. DNA evidence, cell phone and taxi records, and an ATM camera exonerate these guys, (and ever-morphing stories from the alleged victim didn't help the case, either) but, evidently, here on this board, they were still guilty to some people.

These guys could be rich, spoiled little a$$holes, but that's not against the law. And as morally repugnant and indefensible as their racial comments were, they don't prove a sexual assault took place. Nor do hateful e-mails. Racism and ignorance definitely, but not rape.

In Nov 2005, Finnerty was charged with simple assault for the brawl outside a bar in DC. So the kid probably is an a$$hole. College guys get in fights and pick on people. Hardly behavior to condone, I agree. But that doesn’t prove rape, either.

People may want to trivialize what these guys went through (I mean, hey, they must have grown up rich, right?...how hard could their lives be?). Two of them were suspended from school when they were charged in May last year, the other was able to graduate the day before being charged. They were getting death threats to go along with those immediate assumptions of guilt. There were protestors outside that house with some in those mobs even including Duke faculty. Even though their suspensions were rescinded, they still haven’t returned to Duke. Who can blame them? "The 88" Duke faculty members joining in the now-proven-wrong court of public opinion aren't even apologetic for their rush to condemn their school's own students. These guys had to endure public scrutiny that was just aching to cast blame on them, let alone having to fear for their own physical safety.

I wouldn't wish this on anyone. No one should have their life ruined by unproven accusations that were egged on by an opportunistic district attorney. But that's exactly what happened.

These guys will have an asterisk by their name no matter what they do in life now. The Duke faculty is still in shambles with a rift, still, between certain lines, not necessarily because of the case, since these guys are shown to be innocent, but because of how it was handled and how certain groups are being criticized for "rush to blame" and "rush to defend." The staff gets hateful e-mail and unwarranted attention from the press and interest groups on all sides, still.

The real a$$hole in all of this? Mike Nifong. I hope he gets disbarred for all this carnage. The laundry list of things he faces sanctions for is long and dirty, for all the deliberate mishandling of this case. Maybe he thought it would be cute and would help his political aspirations to pull what he pulled, but all it did was incite local racial tensions, ruin these kids' lives, ruin the stripper's life, and tarnish Duke's reputation. Point the finger at him. His bad actions can be, and are, proven. No shadow of doubt there.

And the posters here may want to claim they didn't doing anything wrong here, by jumping to (and sticking by) their conclusions that didn't have any evidence. We all need to keep in mind, though, that this finger-pointing-without-evidence has been, and will continue to be just as dangerous and unfair when pointed at us gays. After all, we're all just a bunch of faggots and lesbos, an unstable and dangerous deviant group of pedophiles with our own "agendas" to "convert" impressionable straight people, so therefore, gays and lesbians accused of molestation, rape, and murder MUST be guilty. Right?

Sad.

twin58

Apr 11 2007, 06:21 AM

Several sources are reporting that the remaining charges in this case could be dropped today or tomorrow. I'd ordinarily post this at a lacrosse site, but it has been inaccessible since last night.

Google news

ABC is certain of it.

ABC Report: Duke lacrosse charges to be dropped

QUOTE

ABC News - 8 hours ago
By LARA SETRAKIAN. April 10, 2007 — The office of Attorney General Roy Cooper will announce that he is dismissing all charges against three Duke Lacrosse players.

Newsday, quoting ABC as a source: Duke lacrosse charges to be dropped

mdterp01

Apr 11 2007, 10:23 AM

Well I admit that I rushed to judgment in the case, but it had nothing to do with the players being white. However, VERY shortly after some things started coming out I had serious doubts about the story. I just didn't think that this girl would be so stupid as to lie about something like this against Duke lacrosse players. I mean hello...she lives there. Did she not know how elite of a college Duke is? So yeah...I rushed to judgment but it had nothing to do with race. My rush to judgment was thinking there's just no way this girl would like about this against these rich kids if it wasn't true. But, as has turned out...thats exactly what she did. I still do believe that there were racial slurs uttered by some of them though. But saying that can't get you criminal time. Nifong and the girl really did ruin these guys lives and the already tainted reputation of Duke being a WASPY elitist University. Its just bad all the way around and I hope now these guys will be fully vindicated and able to move on with their lives.

Tennis Guy

Apr 11 2007, 01:42 PM

QUOTE(mdterp01 @ Apr 11 2007, 11:23 AM)

Just to be clear, Terpy (can I call you Terpy?

) , when I was saying 2 out of 3 posters stuck to their assumptions of guilt, it was the other two I was talking about, not you. You actually said you didn't believe her anymore after her story kept changing and the evidence cleared the guys. Just to be clear.

This young lady knew what the real story was, so some if it is on her, that's for sure. She has some blame to burden.

But Nifong is the real jerk here. If he had one iota of ethics, morality, and responsibility, he never would have gone after the guys and would have told her to drop it after (at least) the evidence disproved the story. But the way he deliberately tried to circumvent the actual facts and keep evidence surpressed that cleared these guys...man, he deserves to be disbarred. Although I think these guys want to put this nasty mess to bed, part of me wishes they'd sue the pants, the shirt, EVERYTHING off of Nifong. And if those a$$hole "88" members had a single shred of decency, they'd publicly admit they were wrong, and issue formal apologies to these guys, their families, and to Duke.

Bryan

Apr 11 2007, 02:27 PM

As you mentioned, Tennis Guy, we don't always agree, but I completely agree with your postings on this one. There were many indications from moment one that this was a b*llshit case...the accuser and the D.A. should be held accountable.

UCLAfan

Apr 12 2007, 10:56 AM

QUOTE(Lexington @ Apr 5 2006, 08:21 PM)

What a difference a board makes. Being a lacrosse fan, I frequent another board that deals almost exclusively with that sport. General consensus on THAT board? The woman's obviously lying (looking for some publicity), the guys obviously innocent, the players are sacrificial lambs on the altar of political correctness, the vile e-mail obviously sent off by someone besides the student athlete, and the entire controversy proof that the days of witch huts are far from over. However, most posters feel that there's a silver lining - it will bring more attention to the sport of lacrosse, and that's all to the good.
<small>[ April 05, 2006, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: Lexington ]</small>

Oh, Lexington, how prescient those observations were on the part of everyone else! I'm using your post from the first page of this thread to illustrate how wrong some of us were. Yet, only mdterp has come out of the "guilty" closet to acknowledge the innocence of the accused Duke players.

When they proclaimed their innocence for all the world to see, so many on here railed that the lacrosse players were clearly guilty. But yesterday, we had the attorney general state for all the world to hear that those young men were indeed beyond merely not guilty; he proclaimed them as innocent of all these despicable charges. It's not everyday that a prosecutor drops charges in such a high-profile case such as this, and an even rarer moment that a prosecutor goes to the extreme so as to announce the innocence of the accused.

I will wait for all who rushed to judgment here to admit their error. It's highly doubtful that will happen but I hope you can all 'fess up.

ITJock

Apr 12 2007, 12:08 PM

QUOTE(Bryan @ Apr 11 2007, 07:27 PM)

On that I think we can all agree. Especially the DA who made this into a political football in order to try to advance his own career.

There are no angels anywhere here - the team members involved are uncouth bigots - the school itself let things get way out of hand in order to attract athletes and wealthy parents - and the girls involved lied through their teeth.

I think if I were on that institutions BoD I would want a spring houscleaning from the President and Deans, to the coaches and players. I also think I would use every ounce of influence the BoD has to chase a certain prosecuter out of the state - preferably suitably tarred and feathered.

The way to get over something like this is not just to do what you have to, but to do what is RIGHT, very quickly and very publicly.

R

jsieds

Apr 12 2007, 12:14 PM

QUOTE(jsieds @ May 18 2006, 12:29 PM)

I have no opinion as to the innocence of guilt of the alleged perpetrators. I do however have an opinion about misrepresentation.

Me thinks I have nothing to reconsider in myprevious comments on this.

QUOTE

The reputations of three young men with promising futures,

I will suggest that not all three have stellar reputations. Collin Finnerty was convicted of an assault charge related to an altercation in Georgetown where Finnerty was menacing the victim by throwing punches that stopped just short of striking him. The verdict also concluded the victim rightfully feared for his own safety. The altercation included anti-gay slurs, but prosecutors did not believe the attack was a bias crime. Beer induced, but not exactly something to be proud of.

sportinlife

Apr 12 2007, 04:29 PM

It appears that the woman, or women, obviously overreacted to what they considered malicious treatment of some sort and made a false accusation as what she/they felt was the only way to punish the perpetrators.

A bunch of drunken jocks can be expected to verbally abuse women they hire to perform sexually suggestive acts, and to go too far in their drunken behavior.

If what went on in that house had been recorded and broadcast on national television and the women had been members of the basketball team, this entire situation would have been seen for what it really was: boys behaving badly though not illegally. Something like the Imus situation but under influence of alcohol rather than sober oneriness.

Innocent in the legal sense only

swiminbuff

Apr 12 2007, 04:54 PM

The young men might be boorish, uncooth, bigoted and priveleged but none of these things are illegal. False accusations by the "lady" in question are and the Prosecutors rush to file charges in order to help his election campaign should be. I hope the NC Bar proceeds promptly and that he is soon disbarred. A lot of people (Al? Jesse?) who rushed before the cameras owe those guys many equally public apologies.

UCLAfan

Apr 12 2007, 08:42 PM

Mike Nifong is apologizing for his actions in this case. As the Dana Carvey's Church Lady used to say, "Well, isn't that just special?"

All I have to say is, "Oh, the humanity!" Nifong's apology is almost as useless as a pet rock. It's the case of too little, too late, Mr. Nifong. I hope you enjoy losing your license to practice the law!

Baxion

Apr 12 2007, 11:07 PM

My question is: Where was Jesses Jackson and Al Sharpton the other day when the charges were dropped? They both couldn't get to her side fast enough when the story broke last year.

And the three guys? Their families? Crying over their ruined reputation. Oh boohoo. Those poor privileged, white, republican, rich families.
This whole thing has been made into a media sensation in it's purest form. I blame them just as much as all the parties and persons involved.
Rape Racism Ratings Corruption Lying Politics Michael Moore, where are you? You can smell crap 1000 miles away.

Tennis Guy

Apr 13 2007, 07:03 AM

QUOTE(Baxion @ Apr 13 2007, 12:07 AM)

My question is: Where was Jesses Jackson and Al Sharpton the other day when the charges were dropped? They both couldn't get to her side fast enough when the story broke last year.

I love it. White people and/or republicans and/or rich people have no business being upset by serious and false accusations made against them and the repurcussions thay can cause in their lives. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

mdterp01

Apr 13 2007, 03:25 PM

The Duke case is interesting to me on many levels. I rushed to judgment in this case initially I admit. However, I knew shortly after the incident happened that there was obviously some problems with the case. It had too many holes and I thought the accuser was not being truthful. One way to look at the Duke case though is why would 40 white young men, want 2 black female strippers at their party? When you 'place an order' for strippers, you know exactly what you're getting. So where have they learned that it is ok to treat black women only as sex objects? Those Duke boys received far more special treatment than other innocent less privileged men and women who are convicted and imprisoned each day, and one of the Duke accused even said so in his press conference. He said he was fortunate to have parents with the resources to be able to fight the injustice, and that he can't imagine what life is like for people who DON'T have the means. So this case to me had more to do with class than race. If these were 3 poor white boys from Bumf**k, West Virginia in the same situation the case wouldn't have received the coverage it did. But, class must be looked at in this. These were 3 rich kids who play lacrosse, and who attend one of the most elitist universities in the country. There were racial slurs thrown at the girls and some of their behavior that night was disgraceful. Does that mean they should have been accused of the most horrible violation of a woman? Absolutely not. Throwing out racial slurs is not illegal and it can't get you jail time. I'm glad they are vindicated of their rape charges and I was very impressed with the press conference they gave. The finger also really needs to be pointed at DA Nifong as well because why did he take it upon himself to really want to convict those boys with such little evidence? The Duke boys are innocent of any legal wrongdoing but their morals could use some revamping. But again, f**king up at 20 isn't illegal, nor abnormal in terms of making poor choices.

As for Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson apologizing...BWAHAHAHA!! I have a better chance of walking on water before those two will apologize for that. Because they will still say that they may be innocent of any legal wrongdoing but still thought it was ok to hire black strippers for their entertainment. But again, they're 20 something year old boys who I'm sure grew up believing that they were entitled to act a certain way because of their class. Thats not a crime. But Al and Jesse surely got in front of the cameras and convicted those boys before any real evidence came out so yes...they do owe the Duke accused an apology. The ones who owe the boys the biggest apology are the accuser, and Mr. Nifong. He was the lead investigator of this case and made it appear as though there was "something" there when their wasn't, that led many to believe wrongfully so that there was some malicious act that occurred. However, because of the positions in the media they took at the beginning of this case, I do believe that Sharpton and Jackson should offer their apologies for what the boys went through. Them being rich doesn't justify the "boo hoo" comments that they have received. I took someone to task who posted as much earlier when talking about not feeling sorry for some preppy, waspy, rich white boys whose daddies got good lawyers to get them out of trouble. As someone who grew up privileged, you are damn right daddy would hire the best to help their sons get out of something they believed they didn't do. Look...class is what it is. If you've got the means you've got the means. I'll be damned if I'm gonna be made to feel bad because I grew up with parents who had wealth. Those boys shouldn't be made to feel bad because they have the means.

Back to Sharpton and Jackson though. If you want to be the "moral standard" and put yourself out there when you think injustice is done, then you need to admit when you were wrong. A legal injustice occurred against the Duke players and the people who condemned them publicly need to offer apologies to those boys. That would include Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton as well as many mainstream media white journalists who had them convicted as well.

twin58

Jun 15 2007, 04:26 PM

I saw it on The Lacrosse Forums first.

Embattled Nifong Says He'll Resign

Google news for "nifong resign"

swiminbuff

Jun 16 2007, 04:55 PM

Well the panel handed down their decision today and Nifong was disbarred.
What exactly does a disbarred lawyer do for a career??

boomer400

Jun 16 2007, 10:00 PM

Fox News?

Bryan

Jun 18 2007, 04:17 PM

A position in the Bush administration? Maybe a judge or advisor?

twin58

Jun 22 2007, 02:14 PM

QUOTE(swiminbuff @ Jun 16 2007, 09:55 PM)

What exactly does a disbarred lawyer do for a career??

Talk show host?

Someone tell me who "won" in this whole incident. Which person involved in this would you want to be?

UCLAfan

Jun 22 2007, 11:27 PM

QUOTE(twin58 @ Jun 22 2007, 12:14 PM)

Someone tell me who "won" in this whole incident. Which person involved in this would you want to be?

The closest person to a winner in this whole ugly case would have to be Crystal Gayle Mangum. She's getting off scot free.

maksattack

Jul 12 2007, 01:44 PM

I am personally a lacrosse player and I attended the Duke lacrosse camp in the summer of 2005. I had the privelege of playing with former high school americans like David Evans and Reade Seligmann (2 of the accused in the case).

First of all I did not meet the other player: Collin Finnerty. I realize he is accused of an attack which may have been motivated by homophobia. I never met him, but I didnt hear good things about him really.

As for david evans, I saw the patience he had when he worked with defenseman and everyone who saw and worked with him had good things to say about him.

I worked one on one with Reade Seligmann multiple times and I credit him for helping me be a good face-off guy. Instead of goin out with other teammates after the afternoon ended, he worked with me an extra hour on facing off. I have never met a more humble and nice guy than reade on the lacrosse field.

There is no reason to hate someone for being born into wealth. It took an unbelievable amount of work for someone like reade, collin or dave to earn a spot on one of the best lacrosse teams in america. Lacrosse may seem to be a rich, elitist sport, but it takes hard work to get there too.

SCTrojan

Jul 26 2007, 04:22 PM

Disgraced D.A. apologizes to Duke players. Talk about a ruined career. But, hey at least he apologized. Now he has to face the judge for "contempt of court." Let's see what transpires.

sportinlife

Sep 9 2007, 03:40 PM

I wonder if the Duke players are following the case of the Jena 6 and if so whether they see any parallels.

Both are based on he said she said or he said he said testimony and a lot of overblown racial underpinnings.

The details are very different but the similarities are enlightening.

What the outcome will be is another matter.

Edit to add: Since at least one of the accused is a star high school football player there is a vague sports angle to this as well. But I am not sure that this or the Duke story really belong in a sports section rather than the religion and politics one.

mdterp01

Sep 11 2007, 10:49 AM

Ok so you think the case of the Jena 6 has "overblown" racial underpinnings? This is modern day JIM CROW at its BEST!! This case and the charges that were originally filed against the black kids is RIDICULOUS!! Thats why I hope I never get caught up in something because god forbid I have to rely on a jury of my peers with my fate in their hands.

sportinlife

Sep 12 2007, 09:20 PM

Not trying to diminish the sincerity of the emotional responses, but that is exactly why these things happen. Take the Noose at Nyumburu copycat.

Show a sensitivity and someone will rub it. The recent drama over the N-word being a prime example.

Personally I think a lot of these recent tensions derive from redirected frustration over the Iraq War. Folks feel helpless to stop that mess and the messmaker behind it. Or feel pent-up anger that the vengeance of the loss in Vietnam is now going sour as well.

There is a lot of anger and frustration in this country right now IMO. And it is looking for any outlet. The young are the most willing to break taboos and play pranks.

Chill-Trick

Jan 16 2008, 03:40 PM

Duke Prosecutor Files for Bankruptcy

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