There's a big scandal going on, specifically allegations of gang rape during a party at the home rented by three captains of the men's lacrosse team. A pair of exotic dancers were hired to perform, and things turned out poorly, it is said. The forfeiture is for the party and underage drinking, as the investigation into the rape allegations is ongoing. Today's game was to have been against Georgetown, and next week's was to ahve been against Mount St. Mary's.

DNA tests ordered for Duke athletes, "Lacrosse team reports to lab in rape inquiry."

Dancer gives details of ordeal, "A woman hired to dance for the Duke lacrosse team describes a night of racial slurs, growing fear and, finally, sexual violence."

Edited to add: I have changed the title of this thread. See explanation below.

[ April 11, 2006, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: Jim at Outsports ]

Well all I have to say is that those white boys better hope that those black girl's families are country club religious and don't believe in retaliation because I'm sitting her fuming about this. No woman should be raped but the added racial aspect to this just makes me think of the years that black women slaves had to endure being raped by white men. Ugh....I'm rather country club and I know if that were my sister or friend...oh those boys wouldn't be able to play lacrosse or do much of anything again in their life.

More bad news for Durham: Duke lax to miss entire season.

This is disgusting:

"Nifong said the team members are standing together and refusing to talk with investigators, and he warned he may bring aiding-and-abetting charges against some of the players."

In other words, the players know something but they're not talking. Guys sticking together at a woman's expense. I can't blame anyone for thinking it's racially motivated. Hopefully they'll get their answers.

God I hope Jessie Jackson doesn't show up and trivialize this whole situation with alliterations. On the other extreme I would not be surprised if many black men, especially straight ones are not already privately making crude allusions to the women's choice of profession and willingness to put themselves in such a situation. Not all pretty lightheaded women are blonde. Stay tune for some heavy extrapolation and historical enlightenment in this one: some legit and some a bit off-the-wall.

Edit to add: This is very serious. These guys should realize they may be putting the credibility of Duke's lacrosse program, if not to a lesser extent the universtiy itself, on the line with this sort of blanket denial from those who are the leaders on the team, should the allegations turn out to have merit. This stain will not wash out easily.

By way of full disclosure, so to speak, one of my nieces picked North Carolina as where she would have gone to school had she qualified for sufficient aid. And I know she would love to have qualified for Duke. But she found it economically and emotionally more supportive to remain in her home state of Delaware as it turned out. So this entire issue has a deeply emotional component for me when I think of what could have been.

I don't want to think of the consequences for this woman if she had to take a preventive to pregnancy after this encounter. There are a lot of Fundamentalists in that region who would as likely condemn her for that more than they would the act ot rape itself.

[ March 29, 2006, 04:20 AM: Message edited by: sportinlife ]

Unfortunately, this is far more common than one might think. I am the Chief Judicial Officer at the University I work at, and luckily, we have not had a situation like this, but as I have investigated cases over the past several years, there is a complete lack of honor among a number of young people today. And, I am not sure I would just limit it to young people. Not wanting to "rat" someone out is fine, but when we are talking about serious violations of campus policies, or in this case laws, where someone has possibly been victimized...I just don't understand it.

I am curious to see how this plays out. There really is no good ending for the alleged victim, the community, or the team members who really are not involved in this situation.

The original title of this thread, "Duke: Men's Lacrosse to Forfeit Next Two Games," is incorrect. I quote Inside Lacrosse in reporting that the games that would have been played against Georgetown and Mount St. Mary's will be "considered 'no contest' games and not 'forfeit' games." The rule is explained in this article:

Duke games considered 'no contest' matches

I regret the error.

One thing for certain is that lawyers cost a lot of money and somebody who supports these players can afford to pay it.

Interesting that this writer mentions that there are 14 players from Long Island, a region she may have or feel a personal connection to. But it emphasizes that lacrosse is very much a northeastern sport. People from that region may be less sensitive to the racial implications in this situation in the South.

So far a good job seems to have been done of keeping it as low-key as possible given the nature of the charges.

Newsday is a Long Island newspaper.

Of the players from the DC area, all, AFAIK, went to private schools. Perennial powerhouse Landon is the most prominent DC-area supplier of players for Duke.

Scandal Hits Home: Nine Blue Devil Players Are From the D.C. Area

[ April 01, 2006, 05:47 AM: Message edited by: twin58 ]

What a difference a board makes. Being a lacrosse fan, I frequent another board that deals almost exclusively with that sport. General consensus on THAT board? The woman's obviously lying (looking for some publicity), the guys obviously innocent, the players are sacrificial lambs on the altar of political correctness, the vile e-mail obviously sent off by someone besides the student athlete, and the entire controversy proof that the days of witch huts are far from over. However, most posters feel that there's a silver lining - it will bring more attention to the sport of lacrosse, and that's all to the good.

I pray none of these posters are at the Mammoth games with me.

LXN

[ April 05, 2006, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: Lexington ]

Yes indeed, this should definitely bring more attention to the sport of lacrosse.

When I saw the e-mail of ESPN yesterday I was really saddened--just to talk about someone like that is so wrong. And I didn't want this story to have legs, to have much truth to it, but it seems it does--and that is sad too. I don't understand this type of agression.

It is annoying that their lawyers keep referring to these young men as boys, as though they are already preparing to base the case on immaturity and thereby lighten any possible sentence.

It is even more annoying that few seem to put this in the context of a bunch of black football players abusing a white exotic dancer, which has probably happened a few times.

Most annoying is the reminder of torture in Iraq.

What I found annoying was the rush to judgment by so many here on this issue, just as they have done on so many others.

Not so fast, my friend!

Whoa there. This does NOT mean this is a closed case by any means. You have to keep in mind that this is ALL coming from defense attorneys and this is not public record. Defense attorneys are never going to acknowledge the slightest bit of guilt.

Now I'm not saying that they are lying about it either, but I'd wait for the D.A. to say something and come to a conclusion before a defense attorney.

Even if it is a case closed and the D.A. decides there isn't enough evidence to persue and indictment it is still not over. From what I have read there as been a long history of conflict between the town and the college. This incident as just brought it to a boil. If the case gets dropped, you will have a huge section of that town that will still think they are guilty. There will be consipiracy theories, lawsuits, bad feelings, etc, continuing to simmer. The tensions between the town and Duke will be even worse, and any other incident could set something off.

Questions...questions...so if nothing indeed happened, then why did the Coach quit? among many other questions I have...???

No jumping to conclusions here, Illini, even though it is track season. I never said this was a closed case with the new DNA evidence, which DOES appear to be public record BTW, since it was requested by the DA. (Query why HE didn't announce the results but left it to defense counsel to do so.) I'm perfectly capable of withholding judgment until ALL the facts are in.

HT, the hockey coach didn't quit as much as he was forced out. Regardless of where this increasingly Brawley-esque tale goes, he showed pretty bad judgment by suffering a stripper to entertain his troops, assuming he knew of it, that is. If not, it makes his forced removal all the more improper. And yes, as Cyd notes, let's see if those women's and minority groups are as forthcoming with their retractions as they were in their denunciations.

From what I've read it seems clear these allegations were simply the public culmination of a long-standing pattern of unacceptable behavior by the lacrosse team. Given that, the resignation of the coach seems both necessary and appropriate, as the change in attitude needs to start at the top, and a public message had to be sent to the team, the university community, and the community at large.

Having said that, I'd be surprised if the DA pursues this any further. These men (and they ARE men, not boys as some of their defenders would like to believe) were, I think, improperly and prematurely publicly tarred.

The accuser bears the brunt of the fault for that, but hopefully they will also recognize that their long history of antisocial behavior and sense of entitlement did not serve them well and led many to presume that this was an escalation of that behavior. They will never completely remove the stain from their reputations, and maybe that is itself just.

The fact that the DNA was not a match does not "exonerate" the men. It does make a case much harder to prove but it surely does not prove their innocence (and of course, they are not required by law to do so). There are a lot of possibilities. Maybe they watched enough cop shows to know not to leave evidence? Maybe they invited guests and got off by watching their guests rape the woman? None of us know what evidence the DA has in this case. However, the verbal and physical abuse was confirmed by the woman who got away, who had never before met the accuser and certainly has no reason to commit perjury on her behalf.
At any rate, an alternate explanation sounds a lot more likely to me than saying the woman beat herself up, strangled herself, tore up her own vagina, then went to the hospital for a rape exam which requires stripping naked in front of witnesses, having her nude body photograhed with the knowledge the photos will be displayed in court, having her vagina scraped in front of witnesses, in order to make a false claim against the "boys". With the full knowledge that every stupid thing she has ever done and every mistake she has ever made (and we have all made mistakes and done stupid things) will be dragged into the light of day and put under the microscope in order to prove she is a whore who is making the whole thing up and deserves what she got.

History repeats itself every day one of these shocking scandals come along, and the verdict is always guilty from day one. People are 'outraged' and christians hold vigils, then the truth comes out, and the odds are about 50-50 that they are either good moral people or complete idiots.

That 'disgusting' email is obviously taken out of context, and most likely is sarcastic and satirical about what happened at the party.

I commend the guys for staying quiet, law enforcement in general is too stat driven, think sports, where players are ranked in value of what stats say, rather than what they actually do, especially in regards to winning *CoughAllenIverson*. Many officers I have personally dealt with care more about arrests and having someone be guilty, rather than finding out the truth. If they talked, they would just be soundbites, and most likely would be victim to attempts to incriminate them via the public.

Waiting and listening is the only way you can insure that your voice isn't wasted when you speak. Next time I should listen to my own advice, haha.

-Kevin

The D.A. said today that he is not dropping the case and they are still awaiting other DNA tests (and much of the D.A.'s case has not even been released). And no, the DNA results are not public record, the defense attorneys held an impromptu press conference as soon as they got a hold of them declaring everything. Granted, I'm sure the main ideas of what they shared are true, but it's also coming from defense attorneys, who once again are never going to admit a shred of guilt (especially when there is no way of the press backing up what they said). The DA started out being public with some things, but stopped that well before DNA results came back. If you have the DA and defense attorneys shooting back and forth, it's worthless. The DA will stay mum on a lot of things I'm sure because you never tell everyone your case before you decide about charges.

The thing that just seems strange is her leaving with one shoe on, without her purse/money, cell phone, car keys, etc. Not to mention the torn off finger nails and such. Just seems very odd and she's either one heckuva set-up artist or something was going on. And it's not like she'd be getting anything out of it like an athlete case like Kobe Bryant.

Obviously there was some foul play going on and it definitely seemed there was harrassment of some sort.

I think what's troubling to me about this whole thing is that a player gets suspended for writing an 'inappropriate email', people are shocked that they'd be having stripper parties and prior records. I bet if you look at the lacrosse, wrestling, etc. teams at every school, you'll find plenty of teams where half of the members have been arrested before. While you hear about when a football or basketball player gets in trouble, you don't hear about the others.

What?? People rushing to judge on this board???

NEVER!!!

I've NEVER experience that on here ... ever!

These people are all open minded individuals.

Good points made by people so far who have said that just because there is no DNA match doesn't mean that a crime didn't occur. What has happened as a result of talk that there are photos showing the alleged victim was bruised before arriving to the house and the no DNA match simply makes it a tougher case to prove and because it has been so publicized it raises doubt in the alleged victims credibility. Not all rape victims have DNA left on them by their attacker. You've got that horrid email written by the one Duke player and the 911 call from a woman who said she was called the "n" word around the time the incident allegedly took place. This is a case that touches on class, gender, and racial issues so it is very highly charged. But yeah...no DNA match makes it harder for the prosecution but it doesn't mean that a crime didn't occur. Each side is going to put their own spin on the case. Its just all an unfortunate situation.

Illini, the DNA tests were requested by the DA and conducted by the NC state crime lab after defense counsel secured their clients' cooperation. Note that based on the alleged victim's testimony that her attacker was white, only white team members were tested. Surely you know that this DA, like any prosecutor, is under a duty to disclose any exculpatory evidence, which makes this evidence public record. Whether it is evidence sufficient to preclude prosecution here, or to secure acquittal if charges are filed, remains to be seen. But as this story shows, this DA is up for reelection and chose to hold a press conference at the "historically black college" the alleged victim attends, not in his office or at some neutral site unconnected with this controversy. Now with Jesse Jackson declaiming his denial, (follow links in site above to video), this whole story is starting to sound like a repeat of the Tawana Brawley scam; whether it turns out that way remains to be seen. Is it asking too much to hope we can all agree that it won't?

I never said the DNA results will never be made public. I said they aren't yet. They have not been "released" because not all of the DNA reports are back yet.

And he did not hold a press conference at the school of the alleged victim, it was a forum attended by several high ranking officials, including the mayor.

My favorite is always the people that weren't there but know what's going on. One of the player's parents...

"I know the kids on the team, and I know they're innocent. We knew it from the start," Archer said by phone from his home in East Quogue, N.Y.

Among the many troubling things about this case is the way the DA chose to make such strong statements to the press early in the process. It really does seem that he tried to try this thing in the media.

Today, we hear that there are pictures of the alleged victim arriving at the house already beaten up and with visible injuries. Again, this is coming from the defense. So, no rush to judgment either way. But, I smell a no bill.

I'm sure we've all been to parties where people who weren't invited, crashed anyway, especially at college parties. The fact that all of the men on the lacrosse team volunteered their DNA right away is something. They may know who was involved, but the possibility that it wasn't a lacrosse player is high.

I saw a clip of the victims brother at a rally in Durham on the ABC News this evening. And he was saying that 'you' have labeled my sister a 'stripper and an exotic dancer, what about her role as a mother, and a student...'. And I thought, I really sympathize with you, but in this case I think you are missing the responsibility of her actions: she went to the party as a stripper--no way around that fact. I make no excuses for what happened to her, but she went as a stripper.

TonkaMan, that makes a lot of sense.

Even if she is a stripper, it doesn't give you the right to pull any racial slurs out or harrass them (especially considering they apparently specifically asked for a black girl).

Also Tonka, while they did voluntarily give their DNA, it was something that was either going to be voluntary or court ordered. What I still find interesting is if nothing happened, is why have none of them STILL not said a peep to police. If you have nothing to hide....?

Illini, I agree with you; but she is being 'portrayed' as a stripper in this affair because it is the role she chose to play in this affair. You can't go complaining about your role after the fact. Yes, if bad things happened, then indeed that needs to be highlighted and should be the focus of the news.

From the New York Times

Nifong said he was not fazed by the test results released Monday showing no DNA matches from 46 lacrosse players on the woman or her possessions. He said lack of DNA evidence "is the case in 75
to 80 percent of all sexual assaults."

Cyd
Have you ever been raped or no any survivors of rape? A false case on the worst day is not "more sinister" than being raped. To the world that hates gay people are a minority group. Queens get to act like men by slamming girls but Reggie White makes everyone cry. I don't get it this gay stuff.

Counsel, you should know as well as any other lawyer that they are not talking on advice of their counsel, who I must say are presenting a very unified front and exhibiting excellent client control.

In the interview with Jesse Jackson, it was revealed that the alleged victim has an arrest record that includes ripping off a cabbie and a DUI, among other charges. Listen to the interview on the link I provided above if you want all the deets that her brother omitted from his defense. I think it's safe to say at this point that we're not dealing with a young innocent here - unless the facts prove the team members to be so.

So because someone has a criminal history that includes ripping off a cab driver and a DUI that means she can't be raped or isn't to be believed she could have been raped? Did Jeffrey Dahmer have a criminal record before he was found out to be the sick bastard he was? Unfortunately this woman's life is going to be dug up but what she did then has nothing to do with now and what, if anything, that allegedly occurred.

Itskinmdterp, the past is going to come back to haunt you--there is little way around it. She bears the burden of proving her case and unfortunately the baggage that comes with her is not going to help her case--those are just the facts of justice.

Also related is the incident with McFayden and his e-mail. Where will this information go? While it is not directly related to these rape charges, he now will have that information to follow him around for a very long while.

All of this illustrates an idea that has been in my head lately--we as a society are forgetting our role of responsibility in our own lives--too many people are victims of events rather than men and women of action. I'm not diminishing the dancers trauma in this case, I'm making a point outside of this case. It has just become too prominent a position for individuals to be at no fault for anything happening in their lives--debt, obesity, loneliness, spiritual hollowness. etc.

Amen, brother shore!

Terp, to the extent that she has one, her criminal record could well have a direct bearing on her testimony. In most jurisdictions past convictions, and in some jurisdictions even past charges, can come in to impeach her credibility, and even in those courts that shield a rape victim's past sexual history from disclosure, that might not keep out any non-sexual criminal history. (I'm not a member of the NC Bar and am not familiar with its courts' criminal laws, thus the conditional phrasing here.) Regardless of who prosecutes this matter, IF it is prosecuted, either the DA or she will have the burden of proof, of going forward to prove her case.

Consider the case from the perspective of a civil plaintiff's lawyer, who unlike a DA seeking reelection, has no goal other than getting a large verdict and/or some nice reputation-enhancing publicity out of a case like this. From what evidence is known now - the DNA results, the alleged victim's past record, and the silence from the potential defendants - not many lawyers would want to invest either the time or money in gathering the evidence needed to go forward, especially if they're successful ones with more lucrative cases in the works. Maybe some deep-pocketed, guilt-funded group that calls itself a public interest organization would throw money at this, but not even that's a sure thing. If this is the race case it's being said to be, the most likely private plaintiff might be some sort of civil rights organization. Whether such a group would take up the battle on this woman's behalf remains to be seen.

Oh give me a break gmg....the DA has 'motives' but defense lawyers don't?? They are getting PAID TO DEFEND THEM!!

And as for them not talking, duh it's their lawyers telling them not to. But once again I'll go back to the fact if there is absolutely nothing to hide like they claim, why would they not talk to police even NOW? I mean, I can understand them not wanting them to at first, but a few weeks later I think they could have been 'organized' enough to let them speak to police. Their lawyers are trying to play chicken with the DA's office, but once again let's go back to if absolutely nothing happened, then they wouldn't need to. If they told a 'united' story to the police now that they claimed nothing happened, it could prevent anything further from happening if it's as convincing as they claim. Instead they are trying to play chicken, which just doesn't scream innocence to me. Not to mention right now they are complaining about how their lives are being ruined by the bad press. Well once again if they go talk to the police in a safe time (right after something is not a good idea, but this far after when you have lawyers all saddled up it's fine) they could prevent charges from being filed. Instead the DA does not have their side of the story which obviously does not help them.

I think it's pretty obvious that some foul play occurred this night. Whether it was a rape, I don't know. Whether it was a crime, I don't know. But I also don't think this was 40 some guys sitting on a couch watching a stripper from 10 feet away either. Even if there was not a crime, I think it's pretty obvious that there are some inappropriate things they are trying to hide from getting out there which wouldn't unless there were charges filed.

Illini, this is the second time you've grossly misinterpreted the record and my words; I thought you were too smart to do so. First, you made some off the wall comment about "never sa[ying] the DNA results will never be made public. I said they aren't yet. They have not been "released" because not all of the DNA reports are back yet." I never said, implied or attributed to you anything about the "publication" of the DNA records other than that they were public record, which is a simple fact, regardless of who "publishes" them.

Then you distinguish the DA's "not hold[ing] a press conference at the school of the alleged victim, it was a forum attended by several high ranking officials, including the mayor." Fine, call it what you will; he was there talking in front of the press and the public.

And your taking me to task for not discussing the defense counsel's motives makes no sense either. First, I'd have thought it's not necessary to discuss the obvious, but then one of my faults has always been giving others too much of the benefit of the doubt. But even then, I DID, by noting the advice-of-counsel defense and the degree of client control - and cooperation - they had.

Finally, any litigator knows from experience that innocent or not, the less one's client says, generally the better - whether in a deposition, grand jury hearing, at trial or wherever. I'll stick with my professional assessment of the defense; it's tight, consistent and well-coordinated.

So lighten up, counsel. I mean, just because Drew and I had lunch together you needn't be pissed! wink

Many of the lacrosse players had criminal records, including one with a record of a violent crime. A gay bashing, in fact. Do we hear that this makes them more likely to be rapists?
But of course the woman, who was busted and convicted of a petty felony, is guilty. It's her fault. She deserved it.
Before anyone jumps up and down and says "I didn't say that", isn't that what you mean? When you say that her brother did not tell the world about it? If your sister was in trouble would you tell the world everything bad or dumb she'd ever done? When you say that it reflects on her credibility? Why would a misdemeanor conviction in the past mean she is lying now? Do any of you have any misdemeanors on your record? Do you think it means you are always and forever a liar? When you say she went to the party in the "role" of a stripper? So that means she was asking for it? Like the guys who are posing without clothes on this Web site?
I mean, what is the point of all these remarks if NOT to say that she is making the whole thing up and besides it's all her fault?
Exactly what every woman who reports rape, sexual assault, sexual harassment is told?

Ms de Blazer, I really respect you. I really do. I think you are a fighter for what you believe and I often agree with it. I am probably very close to agreeing with you on this case too. But my point in bringing up the brothers speech was to point out that that was the role she was playing in this affair. By choice. Now I agree, it does not mean she is asking to be harrassed or raped. But don't go crying 'foul' at your own actions.

Also, I have not seen that members of the lacrosse team have criminal records, including a violent crime. With this being the case, then surely it too should be part of the story. I simply have not seen that.

No, MdB, that's NOT what we mean. We mean what we say, not what you twist it to be by your ongoing hysterics.* No one has EVER said this woman was at fault or deserved what, if anything, happened to her. The doubt expressed goes to what, if anything, happened, NOT her fault, which remains a secondary, completely different matter.

If ANYONE involved in this case has to testify, his or her criminal record may be discovered; whether it will be admitted as evidence is a completely different matter. Where past criminal records are admissible, they are often limited in terms of time and type of crime; again, I don't know NC's particular legal/evidentiary standards. But to parrot the radical feminist agenda by suggesting that your string of horribles is "what every woman who reports rape, sexual assault, sexual harassment is told" is simply inaccurate both as a matter of fact and law.
_____
*Your disgustingly graphic 4-11 post would give any of Judy Chicago's "exhibitions" a run for their (NEA grant) money, and is matched only by MIB's post re: serial castrations today.

Actually, all anyone on this site can do is speculate, since none of us are connected to this case. I'm not saying one person is guilty or 40 are guilty. I just added my .02, because as an ACC alumni I'm interested in this case.

I found this on ESPN, "Fifteen of the 47 members of the team have been charged with offenses ranging from underage alcohol possession, violating open container laws, loud noise and public urination, according to the News and Observer." I couldn't find anything about any violent crimes commited by any players.

As far as what's going to happen, I think that the media is being used to try this case before it even gets to court. The news is reporting that this isn't the first time the lacrosse team has had strippers or underaged drinking at a party. What about the other woman hired as a stripper, if the women were separated, than why only one rape?

From what I remember of college, athletes do hold themselves in higher regard than others. And I'm sorry, but I have seen colleges bend over backwards to coddle their stars. So like everyone else I'm really interested in seeing how this ends.

illini,

Everyone has something to hide...........But I agree that the players attorneys have told them to zip it. Words can get you in trouble.

Tonka, you are exactly right. We only know snippets. And until (if it even happens) any charges are brought, it will be the first time everyone knows everything. Even the defense team does NOT know everything, so it's impossible for them to comment about the validity of the case.

And Tonka, one of the members of the team had gotten in trouble for punching I believe a Georgetown student. It was something gay related, like a comment or something as well.

I hadn't known about that, but it was in the Blade.

Duke lacrosse player charged in D.C. assault

That high school would be Long Island's Chaminade, alma mater of, among many others, Glenn Hughes, 1968, the original gay leather-clad biker in the Village People.

Wikipedia entry for Chaminade

The assault was mentioned as an aside in another article in The Hoya too.

Campus Assault Case Dropped

Well, this is April.

[ April 18, 2006, 06:30 AM: Message edited by: twin58 ]

The plain fact is, in the big majority of rape cases (not all) the defense strategy is to shift the focus from what the man/men did to what the woman did or was. Not "did this man/these men rape this woman" but "is this woman a bad girl?" Did she dress provocatively? Drink? Use drugs? Go to a man's room? Have large breasts? Strip? Get arrested in the past? Drop out of school? Get pregnant when not married?
None of this has anything to do with the real issue, which is "did this man/these men rape this woman?" They are dragged in precisely to portray the woman as either deserving what she got or making the whole thing up or both.
As for graphic posts, well gee, I am really sorry if the word vagina upsets some guys. The post was graphic for a reason. Reporting a rape is not an easy or pleasant matter. I am not saying that women never make it up or that the wrong man is never named (I have a friend who was wrongly convicted; maybe if he'd attacked the woman he'd have gotten off but he was principled and insisted his defense be proving an alibi and showing he did not match the woman's description of his attacker). But damn few women would go through a rape exam if they did not have to. A lot of women who were unmistakably raped refuse the exam because they find it is so painful and humiliating, even when police and hospital staff are sensitve, which is not always the case.

okay legal scholars, why is the case now going to a Grand Jury?

The lack of DNA evidence is disturbing for the prosecution because the woman did immediately claim that the alledged rapists climaxed within her. Obviously from all the posts here, we love to speculate and the content of that speculation is dependent upon our gender, race, and background. These guys, the lacrosse players, appear to be priviledged obnoxious college students. This woman, the stripper, appears to walk a fine line between sleazy and not. Key words are 'appear to be.' The media and all of us watching react emotionally without knowing anywhere near all the facts. Speculation is fun but it sure gets ugly...

New info has emerged. The first cops to arrive on the scene reported, and it was radioed in, that the stripper was completely intoxicated. One more thing to make this he said/she said case even more complicated..

very interesting case. It's a real shame that everyone that gets raped has to put up with all the bs that goes with it. Makes no real difference if the women was a slut or not if you say no its no. It's really turning into a have/have not case and this is very tough on the victim. Will be very interesting to see how this turns out