I read this article in my Sunday paper this morning, and personally it has me very concerned. We may very well be at, or very close to the point, where if we humans do not stop what we are doing to our planet, it may very well be too late.
Think about it!

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Oh, brother.

There are even protests!

Million Snowman March

[ January 29, 2006, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: Maddog ]

And yet, every once in a while the experts turn out to be correct no matter what the politically bought and paid for Hacks - who know nothing about science - would have you believe;

Yes - maybe the sky is falling...

Nations Top NASA Climate Expert Says Bush Admin Tried to Silence Him

By ANDREW C. REVKIN
Published: January 29, 2006

The top climate scientist at NASA says the Bush administration has tried to stop him from speaking out since he gave a lecture last month calling for prompt reductions in emissions of greenhouse gases linked to global warming.

The scientist, James E. Hansen, longtime director of the agency's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, said in an interview that officials at NASA headquarters had ordered the public affairs staff to review his coming lectures, papers, postings on the Goddard Web site and requests for interviews from journalists.

Dr. Hansen said he would ignore the restrictions. "They feel their job is to be this censor of information going out to the public," he said.

Dean Acosta, deputy assistant administrator for public affairs at the space agency, said there was no effort to silence Dr. Hansen. "That's not the way we operate here at NASA," Mr. Acosta said. "We promote openness and we speak with the facts."

He said the restrictions on Dr. Hansen applied to all National Aeronautics and Space Administration personnel. He added that government scientists were free to discuss scientific findings, but that policy statements should be left to policy makers and appointed spokesmen.

Mr. Acosta said other reasons for requiring press officers to review interview requests were to have an orderly flow of information out of a sprawling agency and to avoid surprises. "This is not about any individual or any issue like global warming," he said. "It's about coordination."

Dr. Hansen strongly disagreed with this characterization, saying such procedures had already prevented the public from fully grasping recent findings about climate change that point to risks ahead.

"Communicating with the public seems to be essential," he said, "because public concern is probably the only thing capable of overcoming the special interests that have obfuscated the topic."

Dr. Hansen, 63, a physicist who joined the space agency in 1967, directs efforts to simulate the global climate on computers at the Goddard Institute in Morningside Heights in Manhattan.

Since 1988, he has been issuing public warnings about the long-term threat from heat-trapping emissions, dominated by carbon dioxide, that are an unavoidable byproduct of burning coal, oil and other fossil fuels. He has had run-ins with politicians or their appointees in various administrations, including budget watchers in the first Bush administration and Vice President Al Gore.

In 2001, Dr. Hansen was invited twice to brief Vice President Dick Cheney and other cabinet members on climate change. White House officials were interested in his findings showing that cleaning up soot, which also warms the atmosphere, was an effective and far easier first step than curbing carbon dioxide.

He fell out of favor with the White House in 2004 after giving a speech at the University of Iowa before the presidential election, in which he complained that government climate scientists were being muzzled and said he planned to vote for Senator John Kerry.

But Dr. Hansen said that nothing in 30 years equaled the push made since early December to keep him from publicly discussing what he says are clear-cut dangers from further delay in curbing carbon dioxide..."

The problem MIB is that you can't deal with a problem by putting your hands over your ears, sticking your nose under a black robe and yelling 'LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA' at the top of your lungs.

If you hear an alarm, smell smoke, and feel heat; you call the FD and you leave the building. You don't wait for it to burn to the ground around you, killing everyone, before telling your family 'There might be a fire'. It will do them no good when they are dead.

Rob

Oh Rob, (think Laura Petrie) you just don't understand MIB. When he's off his meds, everything is the liberal's fault. The sky is falling, blame the liberals. Science reveals atmospheric changes, blame the liberal media. Maybe he'll get it when he's paying $8 for a bottle of water.

Rob, thanks for posting that story which I was going to address this morning. Its been all over ABC News since last night. How typical that Shrub would want to cover up any negative news as it relates to the environment that may upset his big fat CEO exec. buddies, especially in the oil/petroleum business. Why just ignore all our problems away I guess, including all the scientific evidence, eh Shrub? I think its criminal if you ask me. :mad: I expect the scientist to be personally attacked and or discredited by the administration today.

But then all the hot air would contribute to this so-called global warming, which is exactly what's happening now. No wonder these windbags are bitching about global warming. All their ridiculous bloviating has caused that which they claim exists. How convenient.

I don't even pay a buck fifty like you fools probably do. I'm not paying for something I can get free from the tap--great tasting Lake Michigan water, thank-you-very-much. Now, excuse me while I go spray a few spritzes of my CFC-ladened aerosol.

Movie idea....

The Day After Brokeback Mountain

It can work, because Jake G was in both, and Dennis Quaid made the Dick Flick joke...

Dennis Quaid is still the weather expert, and figures out that Brokeback Mountain is gonna get really cold. So he (Quaid) tells a frantic Sela Ward that he's gonna go rescue Heath L and his new boyfriend played by Jake G, but...Jake isn't Jack (ya know, cuz he's dead) but he's Quaid's son

But this one has more nudity.

Tee-Hee

Those silly scientists! What do they know? Next they'll be telling us that our pollutants are going to cause a hole in the ozone layer and the rate of skin cancer will spiral up.......and oh, wait a minute....

Then they'll be debunked by facts that showed this hole mysteriously shrinking dramatically, then reappearing, then shrinking again; or by facts that showed skin cancer increase can often be attributed to the stupidity of people wanting to get all the sun they can, but choosing not to wear the proper sun block or none at all.

I like this! It got me laughing.

This pretty much sums it up.

Oh! The hypocrisy! ...

Barbra Streisand is another proponent of environmentalism, yet she drives an SUV, lives in a mansion and has a $22,000 annual water bill. In the past, she has driven to appointments in Beverly Hills in a motor home because of her aversion to using public bathrooms.

She's not alone among Hollywood's and the Left's hypocrites:

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, who proclaims her support for unions, yet the luxury resort, the vineyard, and the restaurants she partly owns are strictly non-union. While she advocates tough new laws enforcing environmental regulations on the private sector, the exclusive country club she partly owns failed to comply with existing environmental regulations for the past eight years--including a failure to protect endangered species.

Noam Chomsky has made a reputation for calling America a police state and branding the Pentagon "the most hideous institution on earth," yet his entire academic career has been subsidized by the U.S. military.

Ralph Nader plays the role of the citizen avenger--the populist uninterested in wealth and materialism, pretending to live in a modest apartment. In fact, he lives in fancy homes registered in the names of his siblings.

Wow MIB! People in the public eye are hypocrites?! Stop the presses! I have to go tell the media! But what's this? The media is leftist? Oh no!

It's a good thing they're hypocrites, because now we don't have to worry about global warming.

William Blackstone considered personal freedom of movement one of the absolutes of English law. Go here for info on this.

Looks like global warming is changing all that. Here are some quotations from a story in The Independent today, where various types express disapproval at cheap air travel:

Two of those are from environmental campaigners. One is from the Conservative Party environment spokesman. Can you guess which one?

People are now seriously talking about "personal carbon allowances" that would mean you would not be able to travel if you don't have enough points left. The implications for liberty are staggering.

God! These wackos must be stopped!

Still waiting for you to talk about global warming oh master of the tangent.

What's to talk about? Earth has gone through climatological cycles ever since its inception and will continue to do so whether we're here or not. To think we have the ability to significantly affect global climate is the ultimate in both vanity and stupidity.

And there are absolutely no hypocrits on the other side of the aisle right?

BTW - exactly what does any of this have to do with the actual thread?

As a pure rant, I can almost understand it, but what does it actually have to do with Global Warming be real or not?

R

Oh, there are plenty of hypocrites on the Right, believe me.

So, creating pollution amounts never seen before in Earth's history isn't reason for pause? That is unless the dinosaurs burned themselves for fuel before fossilization.

Aw, MIB, who says I don't have a sense of humor? I thought that's what it took to get through your miles and miles of blather and tripe that you consider "posts".

Limiting pollution is good for several reasons, but among these reasons is not because it will cause some global climate change. It won't. It can't.

wow....he's not only a "judge", he's also a scientist! Tell us judge, how many degrees do you have in climatology?

More than you, I'm sure. Besides, YOU didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

MIB He may not have stayed overnight, but he was there...so he qualified.

Tell us judge, how many degrees do you have in climatology?

from MIB:
Well, par for the course, you are wrong again. I not only studied meteorology, but was also a lab instructor for it in grad school. Your vain boasts of intelligence and claims of "fact" on practically every subject are humorous, sad, and tiresome to those of us who actually have some level of knowledge.

**this is where you now make some lame attempt at a humorous rebuttal that only you find funny.**

(A) Meteorology is not the same as climatology.

( Degrees or not, YOU didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. That trumps all. Even you should know that.

Now, go scare the rest of gullible Americans as to this nonexistent threat to our global climate.

You're right. Meteorology includes but is not limited to climatology. Therefore someone who has studied meteorology has a wider scope of knowledge than just in the area of climate change.

Here's a link to a children's site that might help you:
http://chainreaction.asu.edu/weather/digin...in/meteorol.htm

Scare Americans with nonexistant threats ??? No, I would never use the normal strategy of the Bush Administration.

[ January 31, 2006, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: HotlantaTarheel ]

eek! ENOUGH HT - you are now responsible for my snarfing orange juice all over the Flybridge controls! Damn good thing they are all waterproof.

I will get even with you for that one! wink

R

I'm sure that would have been quite a site to behold, IT.

Interesting article

So much for global warming affecting hurricanes.

So much for you being impartial when quoting an article.

Everyone should read the entire story for a more balanced talk on the story.

I did read the entire story, and it confirms my earlier contentions. Once again, I was/am correct. It's not easy being me, you know.

You are relying on opinions from Dr Gray? I KNOW the man, and he he is not the most forward thinking or experimental scientist I have ever met.

In fact he is stodgy, confirmed in his opinions (and boy does he have opinions), and hasn't done any original research in at least 20 years. He is VERY old establishment, should have retired long ago, and is very very stubborn in his beliefs.

On the other hand, Dr. Curry has never gotten over some very patronizing and sexist remarks he made to her while she was a visiting prof. Curry and Gray have been battling for years.

The only place I have ever seen Dr Gray Listed as "America's most prominent hurricane scientist " was in his own literature or that of his syncophant students. He is argumentative, rude, and self important.

At one time(30+ years ago) he may very well have been the best in the world (the world moves on)- but it long ago went to his head and he now requires that students wait on him hand and foot as well as bow to his superior intelect; and god help you if you don't - he is extremely loud, vicious, and foulmouthed with regard to anybody who dares to disagree with him.

Grays opinions get you nowhere.

Further, the NOAA quote is very old, and taken totally out of context.

R

Because, again, you only read what you want to. Be it someone's posts or articles, you pick what you want even when there is competing evidence from the other side. Doesn't really help your argument when you do that.

ITJock- I work in the business too and have heard virtually the same stories about Dr. Gray. It's too bad personality conflicts have to get away in the way of science, but in the end the truth will prevail.

Like one's personality has anything to do with one's intelligence. There's a reason Dr. Gray has long been considered America's leading hurricane expert. Those other jealous folks can't hold the Gray's Depends.

The only thing known to affect climate on a global scale is the sun, and with an increase in solar activity (not this manmade bullshit thrown about all over the place), global temps can rise. Now comes word that global cooling is only a few years away.

Last time I checked, we still haven't been able to affect the sun.

Somebody has issues with authority.

MIB....do you understand that there is a difference between people making predictions about what will happen in the future versus scientific observations on what is actually occurring now?

Maybe this will help. Bless your heart.
Science for Children

Didn't I just read this morning somewhere where some group of Christians, is convinced that man has greatly contributed to the global warming problem is urging the government to do something about it? What say you about this Mib? Just curious.

What do I say about it? Let's see...a bunch of ministers claiming they know about climatology...yeah, that'll do. Not.

I've said it once, I'll say it again, there is nothing man has done or can do to affect climate on a global level. To believe so is utter vanity, along with sheer ideological and emotional stupidity. The only thing that has had a global impact on our climate, and it has been proven time and time again, is El Sol himself.

All this panic-driven paranoia about global warming is nothing less than pure bullshit.

Almost as ridiculous as a Judge claiming he knows anything about the topic huh?

In this case though they aren't claiming specialized knowledge they are reacting in a Christian manner to what has become generally accepted scientific evidence of a genuine problem. Kudo's to them!

Rob

I guess time will tell then Mib. Its pretty clear that most scientists are focusing on this story right now, gathering evidence, analyzing the evidence and what not, and as time goes by this story will either be more proven or discounted. We shall see.

Uh. The scientists have moved on.

Global climate change isn't an issue with scientists; it's a Political football [see NASA scientist vs. unqualified Bush crony]. For scientists, its all about abatement and how to effectively (economically) deal with climate changes. Just because that fancy TV finds the one in 1000 scientists who still doesn't see global climate change as real and presents his point of view in order to be 'fair and balanced' doesn't mean the issue is debated 50-50 by the scientific community.

It's happening whether politics wants to see it or not.

I didn't know a judge was doing that. Fascinating.

Regardless, all it takes is a little common sense, and not paranoia, to realize that for decades these same fringe scientists have been screaming about how Man is destroying the environment, causing global warming, blah, blah, blah. Well, they're wrong. The sky was to have fallen in the 1960's. It didn't. Then in the 1970's. It didn't. Then in the 1980's. It didn't. Then in the 1990's. It didn't. Then in the 2000's. It hasn't.

And won't.

(A) It's not "generally accepted."

( It's not a "genuine problem."

"I want PROOF!", not leads, as Admiral Ozzel once said.

[quote]MIB:
[QUOTE](A) It's not \"generally accepted.\"

( It's not a \"genuine problem.\"[/quote]MIB, I'm a meteorologist. You're not. And you're wrong. It is (a) Generally (as in, nearly universally) accepted among meteorologists that the globe is warming and ( this is a genuine problem.

Deal with it.

[quote]JASooner:
[quote]MIB:
[QUOTE](A) It's not \"generally accepted.\"

( It's not a \"genuine problem.\"[/quote]MIB, I'm a meteorologist. You're not. And you're wrong. It is (a) Generally (as in, nearly universally) accepted among meteorologists that the globe is warming and ( this is a genuine problem.

Deal with it. [/quote]How do you know if I am one or not? Regardless, YOU didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

The globe is warming, huh? Blame the sun then, because that is the only thing that can affect the climate on a global scale, and lately it's been acting quite abnormally. In fact, scientists believe it has for quite some time been outputting greater energy than it has in a very long time.

There's your "global warming."