People (myself included) are at odds and upset that straight people are competing in the Gay Games/gay sporting competitions. What would the reaction be if hearing people and teams competed in the Deaf Olympics? Why would hearing people want to compete in the Deaf Olympics? Do they have policies of "not discriminating based on hearing?" Discuss....

I think that is an EXCELLENT post question, Virginia.

Myself, I support straight people competing in the Out and Gay games. I like the outlook of openess and acceptance of sexual orientations in sport - either straight, bi or gay.

From my perspective, the games are there to provide an open, comfortable and receptive environment for gay athletes to compete. However, it is also to show the world that they should me bore embracing adn accepting of gay athletes. To this end, I feel that allowing straight athletes to compete with us in order to achieve this objective really does provide a means to this end.

I do understand your comparison with the deaf, but I think this is in some way different. How about an example of the special olympics. Is it alright to exclude those individuals without handicaps? Yes - of course (I am assuming peopel can follow my logic without me having to spell it out here). But, that is different from the Out and Gay Games, simply because we're aiming for a more accepting and inclusive world - to break down the barriers of sport, so that gay and straight athletes can compete in both the olympic games and the Out and Gay Games equally, without fear of reprisal.

DO you know what I mean?

I think it is wonderful that any straight person would want to support us by competing in our events. It shows that the walls are coming down - and the objective the Out and Gay Games are being met.

Those are my feelings on the matter anyway.

This is an issue that gay sports have dealt with from the start. The Maccabiah Games, which is an event for Jewish athletes, is very strict: Only Jews can participate. And they have specific regulations on what Jews qualify! If questioned, you have to prove you've never been baptized in a Christian church.

I see the positive in including straight athletes in gay sporting events. To me, it's not cool to go out and recruit some, say, straight NHL players to play on your hockey team; but, there are straight players playing in gay leagues all over the country because 1) It's not always easy to find sports leagues for adults and 2) The gay leagues are often, well, more fun. Should we ban straight people from playing in gay leagues? Or ban our straight league members from playing in gay tournaments?

I don't think many people have a problem with a couple straight people playing; it's the people who go out and get straight "ringers" who ruin it for the rest of us.

There were deaf athletes that participated in the Gay Games. I am not sure what they participated in but I did see them. I also thought it was cool that the GG's had sign language volunteers helping them out.
As for hearing people participating in a deaf tournament or contest. The only time which I would say no is if in fact the hearing person had a distict advantage because they could hear. I think this would vary from sport to sport.

The special olympics is a whole diffrent story.

The one comment that doesn't sit well with me is the "straight ringer" does the fact they are heterosexual make them better? I giggle in that it came from a teammate of the former NFL player

This story keeps coming up. The players on the hockey team in question were NOT drafted by the NHL. The last few years' NHL drafts are on NHL.com and they're not listed. And their hockey team in college isn't a major program -- apparently it's just a club sport there. There's virtually nothing about the school's hockey program on the web.

I was told by one of the Gay Games hockey referees that one of the guys was drafted by the Phoenix Coyotes. But, whether that is true or not, I still oppose gay teams going out and getting incredible former collegiate and pro players to fill their rosters. But, if they're gay, I say, more power to you (it was cool to see a former NBA draftee playing basketball, though I can't remember his name).

This is something for the event organizers to decide. For the Respect Games in Berlin, the principal point is to promote interaction between us and groups that may have exhibited below average tolerance toward the LGBT community. I believe Germany has the largest number of persons of Turkish descent outside of Turkey, and that community is a key target by organizers of the Respect Games. It's a great concept which is really catching on, and we should keep an eye on it.

Organizers need to choose what they are all about, and the Gay Games is completely dedicated to to the LGBT community. At the same time, we are always open and inclusive to anybody who wants to participate regardless of sexual orientation, gender, race, religion, nationality, ethnic origin, political beliefs, athletic/artistic ability, age, physical challenge, health status, or intellectual disability. Although that includes "straight ringers," I think the absence of huge numbers of them contributes to the perception that the Gay Games is the closest thing we have to a true LGBT world championship. We are not trying to be some sort of mixed crowd games or kinder, gentler World Games.

[ August 15, 2006, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: rtwilliams ]

Esera Tuaolo is GAY and these were the GAY Games. I assume no one would have an issue with him participating? He was a Gay Games ambassador and everybody in the tournament loved him.

Bruce Hayes won an Olympics gold and has swam in several Gay Games. Mark Tewksbury did the same and was in the Outgames.

These cases are all different from a team having the single two best players by far being straight, including one who had never played with them and was brought in for the GG. That's a ringer in my book.

And don't get me started on the all-straight team that won Outgames water polo and had 4 players who made homophobic remarks. What is that about?

Inclusion is a great concept but some teams push it too far simply to win; that's the problem I have.

I second that...And calculated efforts like that are really kind of...scummy. frown

LOL, for some reason the "Will and Grace" episode with Matt Damon competing against Jack for the chorus spot comes to mind.

Can you imagine the day when a straight boy pretends to be gay just to get a chance to travel to Cologne or Copenhagen?

Okay, I had to throw that into the mix for levity.

I was thinking about the same episode, Bear. Thanks for the laugh! Mike

I wonder if when my hetero friends ask me and some guys I play with to compete in a straight tourney...are we considered gay ringers?

I think that "straight" people should be welcome to compete, if they are willing to support their fellow gay athletes. Sexuality is full of ambiguities anyway. Nobody is 100% gay. Nobody is 100% straight. So hold off on your self-righteous purity, and quit mirroring the anti-gay bigots picketing military funerals because the military is not straight enough for them. Let's have a bigger tent, not a smaller tent for those who love and support us.

Well perhaps if it is a floral design or hair styling competition.

I actually don't like the use of the term ringer. Makes us sound like we don't think we can compete. I have played sports my whole life and feel comfortable playing against or with gays and straights alike. But I do have to question the motivation of many of these straight participants. Some of them are genuinely friends of the gay community and there to support their friends or relatives. But those that are just there to win a trophy or medal really need to go away.

And the whole point of forming many of these gay leagues and events is that so many gay men were scared away from sports as kids by the cutthroat nature of certain coaches and overbearing fathers. And many more were never even exposed to sports and joined these leagues or groups as a social outlet. The forming of such seperate leagues allowed many gay men to comfortably participate in sports without having to deal with such issues.

[ August 15, 2006, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: George Twins fan ]

I'm not really sure what either of these is so I am guessing that they really aren't sports

I am in agreement for most of what you said. I myself have played sports competitively my entire life. Fortunately, I never experienced the over bearing coach or father. Mostly because my abilities were better than most and they focused on the less advantaged.

One area of my life that I don't choose to label as "gay" is sports. I am a competitive athlete period. I play in gay and straight leagues and because of my ability to play at a high level my "gayness" never comes into play. A funny experience happened in a tournament where one of the players I was playing with sister was clearly hitting on me. He quietly pulled her to the side and told her she was barking up the wrong tree. We all got a good laugh about it at her expense...as we celebrated our 1st place win.

When looking for people to play with, I don't ask them who they just rolled out of bed with or how they label themselves. There are tell tale signs that you can tell that someone is an athlete. Kind of like gaydar but for athletes.

I know I can compete with anyone and do on a regular basis. One thing to remember is that as much as people talk about teams/people "playing down" I have encountered just as many "playing up" where they don't belong and then complain, protest, etc. This is just as bad.

If we go back to the dawn of gay sports - San Francisco 1975 - there was a presumed one-off softball game with local politicians, etc. It was a lot of fun and roused so much gay and straight interest that it was natural to think of it as a regular event. This happened, but there was an undertow of gay opinion which felt that the league should be gay and more rooted in the gay community, and they broke away. That league evolved into NAGAAA, which originally thought of itself as a global framework for all gay sports [then including softball, darts, billiards, and bowling - the bar sports]. There were always rules excluding straights - quotas, especially, which NAGAAA still has, both locally and nationally. It was out of dissatisfaction with that situation that Tom Waddell established the Gay Games as an inclusive sports festival. NAGAAA has stayed apart from FGG ever since that point, preferring to keep their exclusionary rules, although in practice there has been some softening at local levels.

[I have relied on contemporaneous accounts of 1975 San Francisco events for the above.]