Hi: We would love to hook up with others going to the Gay Games. We are staying at the York Apartments:
1 800 351 831

Not sure what room yet.

We have found a bar that shows Monday Night Football (Tuesday afternoon there) and we will go if the game's live. We'll post more when we know.

Not going and hugely envious but good luck guys especially to Cyd in his competition. Make sure you grab the right baton on those exchanges dude No elephant walks

Hugs and kisses to all those sexy Aussie boys.

Jim and Cyd in Sydney? Sydney who? And at the same time? What a lucky guy. But OUCH! Keep us updated on the games you lucky guys, with pics. Have fun!!!

The following is a quote from Cyd's article on Outsports:

"Watching these Games in Sydney take shape, it’s been disheartening to see that the organizers, and the organizations and government in Sydney, just don’t get what the Gay Games are all about."

The Gay Games organization has worked very hard and why would someone be so critical of an organization that has worked so hard, under extreme financial difficulties. We should be thanking the people who put on the games, the government of Sydney for being host, and not criticizing them before the games even begin.

So Cyd, while you are down under, think about saying thank-you, instead of criticizing, it will be better for all involved.

Bostonlob,

How closely have you worked with the Gay Games, and the Federation, in the last two years? I have been very close to the, and to this process - they deserve both praise and criticism. And, after our brief interaction with the Gay Games registration today, I can tell you our first impression has been that they are as disorganized as we thought they would be.

I'm looking forward to having a GREAT time. But, it has been disheartening to see the Gay Games marketed as "fabulous" and not "greatness." Even the Federation people I have spoken to have disliked the way Sydney has marketed these Games.

What insights do you have?

From last post by Cyd:

And, after our brief interaction with the Gay Games registration today, I can tell you our first impression has been that they are as disorganized as we thought they would be.

That says it all, you just don't get it.

Going in with a negative attitude and one of criticism creates a negative environment. Fabulous vs. Greatness, what makes the difference.

I have attended two games and both had planning and financial issues. But all had a good time and we said thank-you, not criticism.

You just don't get it.......

This will be my last post, enjoy the games, spend more time looking for good and not for bad, life is more enjoyable.....

[ October 31, 2002: Message edited by: bostonlob ]

[ October 31, 2002: Message edited by: bostonlob ]

Cyd clearly stated that he expects to have a great time. But if there are organizational problems they should be reported on and (hopefully) fixed for the future. They shouldn't be ignored or glossed over, as you seem to want to do.

bostonlob - I don't know what you're agenda is here in trying to paint Cyd's comments into a all-bad or all-good issue. It sounds like you're trying to say that we, as gay people, are just lucky that the gay games are happening and that Sydney, etc., are "letting us" put on the games so we should just keep our mouths shut. I mean, please, what's that about?
Cyd's points are easily understood as that the games should be about sports and the spirit of competition, and not about circuit parties and another excuse to hookup with foreign strangers (not that there's anything wrong with that ). He's worked much more closely with the gay games these past two years than you, so give his more informed point of view a little respect, would ya?

Byran:

Thought that was my last post, but will respond to your post. I am not trying to paint a picture of all good or all bad, just saying to give it a chance instead of going in with the attitude that it is as disorganized like I thought it would be.

A lot of time and effort has been put into the games by the group in Sydney, which I do know some of the people involved. They have delt with extreme financial constraints, just like they did in Amsterdam, when the local government bailed out the games on the first day. To criticize the parties, which help provide funds to run the games, makes no sesne. If you do not want to go to the parties, DON'T GO, but the revenues from these events are necessary for the games to take place.

[ October 31, 2002: Message edited by: bostonlob ]

found this at the website for Phila.'s all-news radio station, KYW-1060:

[quote]Australia Urges: Shower With a Friend!

People in parts of Australia are being urged to shower together to save water.
Australia is in the midst of a severe drought.

The past six months in Sydney have been the driest since they started keeping records 144 years ago.

There are water restrictions in Melbourne for the first time in 20 years.

Sherryl Garbutt, the environment minister in Victoria State, tells the 'Herald Sun' newspaper that people should shower together to conserve water.

She says even those not in a relationship could find a 'sympathetic friend' to shower with.

---

Gay Games Outsporters, I'll leave it to your judgment as to your shower partners.

Re: "fabulous" vs. "greatness"... it is clear that as always, there is a schism in the gay community between those who buy into the standard assumptions about what Gay Culture is (or isn't) and those who think outside the box. Tom Waddell thought outside the box; his vision of the Gay Games (i.e., something akin to the Olympics with world class athletes, qualifying events, etc) has been somewhat watered down by a combination of political correctness (we must be "inclusive") and financial considerations (we must have activities that attract sports-hating queens with disposable income). There are probably many in Sydney right now who are there to party, but who will not attend any of the athletic events.

I have met athletes who don't go to the Games because they don't consider them to be serious enough. They are a Cultural Festival rather than a Sporting Event -- which is also one of the reasons the mainstream sports media don't cover the Games.

Anecdote: A buddy of mine was involved with the NYC Games in '94. He's a powerlifter; the organizers laid a guilt trip on him ("if you don't take charge of the lifting events, there won't be lifting events") and so he agreed to help. It was his first and last experience of gay community involvement, as he found it impossibly frustrating. The organizers tended to be party-organizing types who knew little about any of the sports; they cared more about decorations (and whether they would get to meet Greg Louganis) than about the actual events. The athletes had to beg for basic equipment (mats for wrestlers, chalk for lifters). So Cyd's comments don't really surprise me. Gay Games or not, gay men who care about sports are a minority within a minority. The community likes us when we're available for charity events like auctions and bare chest calendars, but it essentially doesn't "get" us.

"Australia Urges: Shower With a Friend!

People in parts of Australia are being urged to shower together to save water. Australia is in the midst of a severe drought."

Yep, worstr drought on the east coast for 20 or 30 years. Just wait a month or two, and it will probably be the worst bushfire season in 20 years as well.

I personally hope that there is a whole lot of coverage of the track and field events. They are my favorite and I just can't wait to see the pictures!!!!!!!!!

Da Kid.

I think that visiting the Gay Games web site will support Jim and Cyd's claims.

The top half of the page is about the parties and cultual events.

The news items include info on Jimmy Somerville headling the Opening Ceremonies along with several drag queens.

As RF said before me, this isn't really about sports, its about parties and socializing, which is fine for pride, but not for the Gay Games.

I mean, any sports event that includes bridge, chess, dancing, aerobics, and "physique" is not really a sports event. No wonder people don't respect gays in sports. And that doesn't include the cultural events of poetry, cabaret, marching band, gender illusion, and video games!

I'm a bit biased, because I play rugby, and their version of rugby is so watered down as to not be recognizable...it's like substituting tag for American Football.

I think the games should be for sports and athletes. And I'm sorry, chess players are not athletes.

The Games organizers are party-obsessed because that's the only way they can make any money (they're not in the best financial shape.)

We have ignored the party scene and are totally focused on the sports. We have a ton of photos we won't publish until we get back, but we still think these images are worthwhile.

I will be writing in a bit on a married straight couple that is playing tennis to support their gay water polo player son. Also, saw the men's basketball final, won by LA Heat over the Long Beach Rebels.

We think the game's the thing, not the parties.

This is mainly for Jim and Cyd in Cydney but if anyone knows about this please post it.
I just heard that a few weeks ago TeamOK, our states team for the gay games, had all their money stolen. The last I knew, they couldn't raise enough money in the few days they had left before the games started. Appearantly, the gay travel agent embezzalled the money and disappeared. So Jim and Cyd, have you guys seen or heard anything from TeamOK in Cydney? I'm wondering if they made it or not.
They worked on this for over three years. They had benefites, car washes, raffles, etc. Some of the 22 members have HIV/AIDS. They might not make it to the next games in four years. My heart just sank when I heard the news. Hopefully the ass**** who stole the money will be caught and hopefully the guys made it to the games after all.

After 10 days here, I can safely say that I was right about the organization. While everyone had a great time here, we heard over and over and over from tennis players, volleyball players, track athletes, spectators, basketball players, etc... that the Games were disorganized. Yes, we had a great time; but, the Sydney 2002 group did nothing to add to that good time. More on this later . . .

I concur with Cyd's assessment and it was echoed throughout the week. But everyone had a great time--hard not to do in a super city with amazingingly nice people.

I am in Auckland, New Zealand, and the country here is quite green and beautiful. Off for a bit of R and R.

Talk to you all later.

When Dupontred makes the decisions of what is competion sport, the world will be without any variety. I suppose you don't like Archery, Trap and skeet, or other skill competions that the Olympic Games host.

You are mistaken if you think that Atheletes are the only people deserving of any kind of competion. The Gay games should be representing our diversity, not just your sad attitude that gym bunnies and physically fit people are the only gays worthy of being participants.

So get your head out of that Damn rugby match and realize that people of different shapes, sizes, and mentalities are all worthy of the games. We need to include less physically demanding events to allow for participation of the entire community!

[ November 11, 2002: Message edited by: Denver Fan ]

I just returned from Sydney this morning. Overall, the experience was amazing and the positives taken from the Games were many. However, most of these positive aspects were a result of the amazing Australian population, their acceptance of gays and lesbians, and the great joy of being a visitor to their fine country.

The Games themselves (while a minor organizational miracle just by being held and completed) did leave something to be desired. There was a great deal of disorganization throughout the entire event. There was a great deal of focus on parties and events that lend themselves more to the stereotypes of gay men wanting to have sex and get high. There was not enough focus on making it be about the participation in the Games and the participants.

There are many aspects that I could discuss. Opening Ceremonies required teams to start arriving around 4 pm to get positioned in the Sydney Cricket Stadium for marching into Aussie Stadium. The march did not actually start until after 7:30 and my part of Team USA did not enter the Stadium until after 9:30. No food, little water, and no opportunity to see the first half of the show. It turns out that the pre-sold tickets for the spectators of the Opening Ceremonies were in cyber-limbo and it took nearly an hour and a half to get spectators into the Stadium to observe the show. About the money, not the participants (many of whom had to be at the pool/courts/fields early the following morning).

Closing Ceremonies were similar in nature. We arrived early only to stand around and wait. We then marched into the Fox Studios, and were asked to take seats on the ground. Nearly two hours later (and after listening to the exact same people who spoke at the Opening Ceremonies say mainly the same things as before), we were encouraged to buy tickets to the Closing Party, even though the barbeque planned for the participants never really had time to happen.

I played tennis and the hardest part of the competition was logistical. The organizers did not limit draws, so I was scheduled to play three matches the opening day. My best friend was not scheduled to play for three days. We ended up playing doubles at a venue that was an hour's commute from the singles venue, and was on a totally different court surface. Not really typical of tournament play.

Not that any of us were professionals expecting to play in professional type events. However, all we heard during the whole week was how the Games were all about the participants and making the week one of the best possible for us. I spent most of my time (in terms of Games activities) waiting in lines, traveling to venues, and wondering why things were not a bit smoother.

Again, the overall experience was tremendous and I loved Sydney, Australia, and the experience. However, if this is our premiere showcase event for Gay athletics and culture, it should be a showcase.

I am really looking forward to Montreal and experiencing the Games from their perspective. The City sent a representative of the Mayor who presented some video montages of Montreal and a message to us from the Mayor. Major bonus points for their early approach to the Games of 2006.

[quote]Originally posted by Denver Fan:
We need to include less physically demanding events to allow for participation of the entire community!

---

Such as, what? pie-eating contests? It is precisely that sort of "dumbing-down" of a supposed sporting event that makes many of us find the Games less-than-compelling, and also the reason why the media ignores them (or treats them as an eccentric oddity at best). There are plenty of gay "cultural festivals" every year that "the entire community" can participate in, why does the one that revolves around sport have to be diluted in order to please those who don't like sports? We're not a kindergarten class where everybody gets a trophy just for trying. We're adults who ought to be able to accept the fact that everything can't be for everybody.

What RGMike wrote.

I still remember vividly sitting in Yankee Stadium for the closing ceremonies of the 1994 Gay Games and being so disappointed that sports and the athletes, you know, the reason we were supposedly there, were shunted off to a 15 minute film clip montage. Instead we got political speeches and some has-beens such as Cyndi Lauper "entertaining" us. We left early. It's almost as if the organizers were embarassed by the sports part of it and would have preferred to just have had bodybuilders parade around.

And by having chess and stuff like that (I love chess but still...) it really does keep people away who would raise the level of the competition. But if the organizers don't turn it in to a circuit party, they will lose piles of money. I think that maybe they should scale it back and try less to be a party scene and more of an athletics competition.

It'll be interesting to see the final financial numbers.

[ November 13, 2002: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

I would agree with the focus on partying moreso than the competition. The basketball games were held in a gym that had very limited seating and they still had the nerve to charge for the final day. I went to the physique competition to support a friend and they initially forgot to bring him out and when they did, they mispronounced his name.
The only thing missing at the Opening Ceremony was CeCe Peniston singing "Finally".
And as far as having less physical sports, forget about it. They already allow anyone who wants to participate enter in without any screening or tryouts. I think that's open enough.
But, I did have fun. No, I had a blast and I didn't step inside a single bar or attended a single circuit party.
Funny that, I found the city fascinating on its own.

Z

[quote] Posted by RGMike:
Such as, what? pie-eating contests?

---

Competions come in all forms. Your sarcasm is the reason I have a hard time supporting such events. You whine and cry, "We don't get taken seriously." If you want to be taken seriously then you'd be good enough for the Olympics. But since you're not, you have to cry for the same coverage of your minor league event. Get over it!

It's suposed to be fun, and another way for gays to show their pride. This is not the Olympics and never will be! So stop your crying and enjoy it for what it is, a pride event!

[ November 15, 2002: Message edited by: Denver Fan ]

[quote]Originally posted by Denver Fan:

It's suposed to be fun, and another way for gays to show their pride. This is not the Olympics and never will be! So stop your crying and enjoy it for what it is, a pride event!

---

It's a sports event, not a pride event.

Umm.....did I come in at a bad time?

I just wanted to thank Outsports for covering Sydney. It must be costing thousands of dollars to stay, what - one month?

Wow.

Yeah, check the history of the event Denver dude. It was created to be an international sports competition, not a rec league where cocktails are served at halftime. Take pride in that aspect of our community as well.

Z

For the 172nd time, any personal attacks - including "$#@%-off!" are not tolerated on this board.

Stick to the discussion at hand.

Sounds like there's some real confusion about what the Gay Games represent and what the actual experience turns out to be. Sports in general and especially the Olympics aren't about inclusion, they're about competition and striving to be the very best in the world. Why were the Gay Games invented? Partially because of the roadblocks and difficulties that face young gay athletes who feel confused and excluded from sporting opportunities while growing up. I'm sure the original founders were quite serious about their sport.

But, until the level of corporate sponsorship increases, the organizers will have to scramble to finance the games. They chose to offer 'parties parties parties' since in general that's what we all apparently spend our money on.

While all the athletes deserve credit for training, getting themselves to Sydney and competing, the Gay Games as an athletic competition has a long way to go before it becomes a premier sports event. Why not make this event one of the few during the gay calendar year not to emphasize partying - Just stick to showing that gay and sports can go together in a very compelling way.

I agree 100% that for many of us participants the idea was that we were there to compete in athletic-oriented competitions. My friends and I trained hard and focused on our events in Sydney. I wish that the organizers would have taken some of the competitions more seriously.

However, one of the basic tenets of the Games is the concept of inclusion. This was only mentioned about 20 times at the Opening Ceremonies. It was reiterated at Closing. It was such a huge item in the Games Charter, that the Federation and Organizing Committee appoint co-chairs (one a gay man and one a lesbian) both of whom participate and speak at all official events during the Games. (Yes, that drove me crazy as it extended the time of events considerably.)

So, the Games are about accepting all and giving everyone a chance to compete. There are multiple levels of play in most sports. Everyone who participates in the Games does get recognized with a medal for being an active participant. This is an important concept of the Games.

Unfortunately, the need to be financially solvent drives the Games in a direction that takes away the focus from promoting individual's mental and physical health for competing. This despite the fact that there were a number of major sponsors including American Airlines, Qantas, City of Sydney, Hertz, Vodafone, etc. The price tag for the Games is very large, though, due to the number of events and the high level of participation in many. (There were approximately 1300 swimmers. One swimmer had 172 people swimming in one event. Unheard of in any competition. There were 170 men playing in B Grade Tennis Singles. That is a bigger draw than anything on the pro tour.)

So, there will continue to be a catch-22 situation with the Games. The Games were founded to promote athletic competition amongst the GLBT community, and to be inclusive. Therefore, the number of "competitions" and cultural activities requires a larger budget expenditure, which drives the focus away from the primary purpose of the Games.

Cyd, your just as bad as the rest of them! What are you going to do? Kick me off the boards? Don't do me any favors!

[ November 15, 2002: Message edited by: Denver Fan ]

You know Denver Fan, that is just not necessary. I mean really. Have you ever read any of the discussions on this board? There is not to be any name calling, or personal remarks against any person. It's suppose to be a criticizm of the Ideas, not of the person. Lets try to grow up.

Good Grief (spoken like Charlie Brown on the Pitchers mound)

I am really not familiar with the Gay Games - this round of reporting from Jim and Cyd has been invaluable in enlightening me. I am thrilled that there is a venue for gay and lesbian athletes, and agree that competition, striving to be the best are key components of sport, and deserve their rightful place at the Gay Games.

Having said that, it is true that many gay people have the experience of being excluded from sports, and I also agree that the spirit of inclusion is a wonderful thing.

I don't know if it has ever been suggested, but can't the Gay Games have a 2-tiered approach? That is a serious, top-flight athletic competition, without classification by ability or age, but rather a wide-open competition that one would qualify for either before the Games, or during preliminary heats. Those athletes that don't make tier one could still compete and have the inclusive atmosphere of tier-two events, as the Games apparently are played now.

I mention this because in the traveling Ultimate Frisbee circuit (and yes there is one, and yes it's a serious sport - basically requires doing wind sprints for 2 hours), which is all-amateur, there is always a "B" and often "C" league at weekend tournaments. Teams travel long distances, at their own expense, so organizers want to allow for as much participation as possible. Those teams that make the "A" league (after round-robin competition) are considered the true champions of the event, and those competitions are extremely serious. Teams that end up in "B" or "C" league have more relaxed games, often with alcohol and other party atmosphere on the sidelines.

Just a thought.

What's the matter Denver Fan, pissed because the Bronco's got their heads handed to 'em on Monday night? Jeez.

And how ironic that someone whining about "inclusiveness" doesn't seem to feel the need to extend that idea to others having a different opinion. Jeez, part 2.

**************************************
If I were King
You would be first against the wall
With your opinion
Which is of no consequence at all

Radiohead/Paranoid Android

First, I want to apologize: to Cyd, RGMike, and anyone who has been offended by my remarks.

Perhaps this all belongs in a diferent thread, but I will still write what the problem is. I am a huge sports fan! I love the games and I love to attend games. I, however, am not blessed with any sporting skills and I am a large person. I make no excuses, nothing medical, I am quite comfortable in my skin. When I first heard that there were non-physical events at the Gay Games, I was thrilled! My thought was, "WOW, I could not only watch the competions, but even participate in an event or two."

Then I read all the negative things being written about the other events, I took it personal. I was extremely hurt by the "Pie eating contest" remark, and I let my emotions take over. I do regret turning this forum into a name-calling hate fest. I am just wanting to have a part in this wonderful event. It is a fact that I could loose weight and play in sports, but I am an excellent skeet shooter and I love to go bowling (two non-physical events that I and many others would love). These are the type of competions I meant. If there is no room for such events at the Gay Games so be it!

But please don't trash the circuit parties and drag events (of which I would not partake of myself), they are as much a part of the games as the sports. I know they get all the coverage, but that's the media and the promoters fault. There are many parties at the Olympic Games and some how they manage to work it all into one grand experience. I hope this all makes sense, or atleast sheds some light on why I was upset.

Please accept my apology. I will be far more mature in my postings in the future. I am honored to have such a forum for Gay sport lovers, but remember not all sports fans are athletes.

This evening I ran into a friend, a non-athlete just back from Sydney. The only party he and his boyfriend attended was the final night, and then only for a short while. They spent most of their time as sports spectators, but they didn't resent the presence of the parties or those who were there to attend them, 'cause it was obvious that that's how the bill was being paid.

My friend's take was that the GLBT "cultural festival" was integral to the whole spirit of the Games. He was wowed both by the world-class athletic competitors and by the diversity and inclusiveness of the other events. He pointed out that a number of the participants were from countries where homophobia is both official civic policy and the predominant social attitude. For them especially, the experience of spending a week in the majority, among many thousands of proud and open gay folks, was more than they had dreamed. For that reason alone, my friend viewed a policy of exclusion as unthinkable.

Certainly the athletes' desire for the Gay Games to be a serious, recognized competition is understandable as well. CPT_Doom's suggestion might go a long way toward appreciating both needs, meeting both goals and making the Games a worthwhile event for all.

I really appreciated hearing his story. It struck me that both points of views are valid, and not necessarily in conflict with one another.

From what Cyd and others have written, it seems that there was a lot of poor planning with regard to the athletic events and the opening/closing ceremonies. Are the parties and other events as poorly organized? Is it a problem with organization in general or is it just that the people running things aren't that familiar with what is needed to plan sporting events?

Perhaps they need someone with a sports background to coordinate the athletic portion separately from whoever plans the parties.

Joe in Wherever is probably right, there might need to be a separate entity seeing to the sports part of the event. When I played softball in New York in 1994, from the people I talked to, the fields were about the worst any of us had played on. I played in the outfield and a routine ground ball out to us was an adventure because you never knew if it was going to hit a hole and jackrabbit over your head. Made it interesting but then there was a woman on the bus back to the subway who looked like she'd had the crap knocked out her by a gang wielding chains. The reason? She had dived for a ball and landed on broken glass. OUCH! I know that a lot of times, venues are a real pain to find but I hope that Montreal has begun planning already. I have to choose between going to Germany for the (soccer) World Cup in 2006 or going to Montreal for Gay Games and while I'd prefer to go follow England around Deutschland as they work to get eliminated early, money might mean I go to Montreal instead. I'm looking forward to either event.

The biggest issue for Gay Games is financing it. Amsterdam was bailed out on the first day by the government.

If the Gay Games were only sporting events, the cost for the participants to enter would be quite high. This is why they have cultural events and sponsor parties, to help subsidize the athletic events.

The Gay Games are inclusive in that it means something different to those who attend. To some it is participating at a competitive level, others at a non-competitive level just to play a sport, some go to watch the events, others for the cultural events, and others to party. Things would be better if each group would respect the other group and be open minded. Everyone is different, we should understand that more than anyone else.

As the previous post stated, the conditions in New York were not always the best, just like Sydney. They do not have the funds to build softball fields, tennis courts, basketball courts, ice rinks etc. They have to work with the facilities in the city, these might not be the best facilities and logistics not perfect, but that is all that is available.

It is important to note that the majority of the workers at the Gay Games are volunteers. The following is a quote from an outsports report on the games:

The Aussies have been amazingly friendly - but, for some reason, the people running track and field are angry and rude. One of the rules they've come up with is that you can't be shirtless in the competition area (i.e., the track). I remember seeing at the Olympics - here, in Sydney - American sprinters pulling their singlets down and doing a victory lap. Oh well - guess not everyone in Sydney can be cool.

The volunteers at track and field were probably following the instructions given to them, but to call the VOLUNTEERS angry and rude because they are doing their job as directed, is rude.

I feel that I need to comment on the criticism (or more accurately, dismissal) of the Gay Games being an "inclusive" event as "political correctness".

First of all, the exact same sentiment was expressed by a (straight, I assume) tabloid sports writer in Sydney to dismiss the Gay Games as an event not worthy of attention of "serious sports" people. I'm a little disheartened that this would come up from other gay athletes/athletic fans.

Of course, the Gay Games could try to only accept World Class athletes, but it would come at the cost of making this an event for the whole of the gay community.

I'm a "B" tennis player, and I competed in both Amsterdam and Sydney. Both experiences were wonderful for me in their own way. My experience in Sydney not only revitalized my interest in my sport, but it had a big impact on how I feel as a part of the gay community.

It's easy to criticize the Gay Games, and it's anyone's perogative to do so. But more than anything else, it's the spirit of inclusiveness that I think is incredibly important to us as gay men and lesbians to help us feel a part of things after many years of viewing the world from the outside.

Hi: Just back from New Zealand (you all MUST go!) and will write a longer Gay Games commentary.

The Games are an odd hybrid--serious jocks combined with people just happy to be there. On the same track you could see Olympic Trials-caliber runners in sprints along with a guy who had two liver transplants just thrilled to finish his race walk (and getting a huge round of applause). There's room for both. I would encourage anyone planning to attend a future games to plan on competing--with 30+ sports there's something everyone can do.

[quote]Originally posted by bostonlob:
If the Gay Games were only sporting events, the cost for the participants to enter would be quite high. This is why they have cultural events and sponsor parties, to help subsidize the athletic events.

---

Sorry, but you're wrong about the cultural events. They are THE biggest financial drain on the Gay Games - even more expensive than the sports! The parties make money - but, that's what getting SPONSORS is all about. Getting sponsors is something the Federation, since the ousting of Bill Wassmer, has shown no interest in.

My feeling: the cultural festival can be a completely separate event; no need for "spoken word demonstrations on why the U.S. should not go to war with Iraq" at the Gay Games.

Ok, I am incorrect about the cultural events, but correct about the parties in subsidizing the athletic events. So why do you complain about the parties, just don't go.

And remember, the majority of the workers were volunteers.

Speaking as someone who performed in the cultural program, I have to say that it's not all a drain on the financial resources of the games. The 'Word Is Out' spoken word program in Sydney was largely funded by the Literature Board of the Australia Council, the Australian federal government's arts body. They chipped in $10,000 to pay for us writers' performance fees, airfares and accomodation. So, when you're blaming the arts community for being a drain on the Games, leave us writers out of it, ok? ;-)

Originally posted by Cyd at Outsports [quote]

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Sorry but you are wrong about the cultural events. They are the biggest financial drain on the Gay Games-even more expensive than the sports


Sorry Cyd but you are wrong. The cultural events, including the conferences, at Sydney 2002 were self funded. It was actually the dance parties, excellent as they were, that did not sell out and will probably result in an overall deficit. It was anticipated that profits from these parties would cover the high costs of staging the sports but this was not the case. Accounts will not be finalized until the end of the year and the picture will be clearer at that time.

Insofar as corporate sponsorships were concerned, there was difficulty in the lead up to the Games as many corporations had committed, and overcommited, funds to the Olympic Games. Of course the 2002 Board were active in pursuing sponsorships but the disappointments were with both the Federal and State governments. The Federal Government completely ignored the event and the whilst the State Government were generous in kind they did not contribute cash. Bill Wassmer made many phone calls and collected a lot of business cards but did not raise one dollar of sponsorships during his tenure hence he decided to pursue other interests.

It should be remembered that most events were held in world class facilities, not high school gynasiums or the suburban sports club,and the resultant costs were quite high.To charge the appropriate individual registration fees to cover these costs would be prohibitive, unfair and unpopular.

Lets not forget that the Gay Games is an event for amateur participants administered,organized, planned and conducted by volunteers. [quote]

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originally posted by Bostonlob

One of the rules they're come up with is that you can't be shirtless in the competition area

The reason for this rule, I suggest, is that at the Sydney Olympics the USA relay runners paraded around the track shirtless after their win. This generated enormous negative media coverage with comments that the guys were lairs(Aussie vernacular), showed no diginity to the event or respect of the occasion. I suppose the organisers of those events did not want more stereotyping.

I am only suggesting this may have been the reason

Xanthos:

The above quote on shirts at the track and field event is not mine, it is from out sports and was written by Cyd.

As the games are over and the coverage was great to read on out sports, there was a difference in the coverage by Jim and Cyd, in my opinion.

I do not know either of these individuals and only have read their reports. Cyd made quite a few statements about the gay games including that the cultural events were a drain on the finances and was against the parties. Others have posted that they believe his comments were not always correct.

As the old saying goes: don't believe everything you read. There is a difference between fact and opinion. Those with strong opinions, are quite often wrong about the facts.

[ November 26, 2002: Message edited by: bostonlob ]