Each of the 28 existing sports were put to a vote. Only baseball and softball failed to receive a majority vote and were dismissed. The IOC will consider replacing them with two sports from a waiting list of five sports: golf, rugby, squash, karate and roller sports.
On "Baseball Tonight" Peter Gammons says the result is in part due to anti-Americanism.
It'll be just that much less Olympics coverage I'll be watching.
[ July 07, 2005, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]
Full Version: Baseball, softball out of the Olympics
Good choices. There were relatively few countries that played these sports and now they can make way for ones that have more interest and could be more competitive.
I have to disagree with you Jim. Baseball in particular because it is a fairly widespread sport; especially with Little League baseball and softball.r
Softball as well has been picking up in popularity in several countries.
I can think of other sports which are nearly not as widespread as others... tell me that (for example only) that equestrian (Eurocentric), badminton (Asia-centric) and handball (Euro-centric) are just as popular worldwide as baseball and softball.
Softball as well has been picking up in popularity in several countries.
I can think of other sports which are nearly not as widespread as others... tell me that (for example only) that equestrian (Eurocentric), badminton (Asia-centric) and handball (Euro-centric) are just as popular worldwide as baseball and softball.
Rythmic gymnastics, check.
Synchronized swimming, check.
Some sport that would get the Americans to watch this bloody awful charade, NO!
Synchronized swimming, check.
Some sport that would get the Americans to watch this bloody awful charade, NO!
Roller sports?? Ugh, can ballroom dancing (aka "dancesport") be close behind?
Baseball really has limited appeal on a global scale. I can't understand why golf isn't in the Games already. (It used to be, back when the Olympics were a "gentleman's" festival back pre-WW 1.) Rugby would also be a great addition, particularly given its global following.
Baseball really has limited appeal on a global scale. I can't understand why golf isn't in the Games already. (It used to be, back when the Olympics were a "gentleman's" festival back pre-WW 1.) Rugby would also be a great addition, particularly given its global following.
I have no problem with this. Baseball had little "glamour" because few of the name baseball stars would compete in the Olympics (as opposed to, say, basketball), its popularity is relatively limited, and would require special, large-sized facilities to be built (I don't imagine there are many baseball diamonds in London, for example), and it has only been an official sport in 4 Olympics. It's unfortunate that women's softball is out, as the Olympics was actually a boost for that sport.
I don't see how this is "anti-American." The U.S. didn't even medal in baseball in the last Olympics (in 2004 it was Cuba, Australia, Japan; in 2000 it was U.S., Cuba, Korea).
I think golf would be good, as it has appeal in many parts of the world, there are top players from many different countries, and there's a very good women's game.
I don't see how this is "anti-American." The U.S. didn't even medal in baseball in the last Olympics (in 2004 it was Cuba, Australia, Japan; in 2000 it was U.S., Cuba, Korea).
I think golf would be good, as it has appeal in many parts of the world, there are top players from many different countries, and there's a very good women's game.
I don't even know what "roller sports" are -- they're not talking about roller derby, I presume, so what exactly are they?
BTW, these changes are effective with the 2012 games, so my evil plan to tie Jim @ Outsports to a chair and force him to watch the softball competition from Beijing in 2008 is...oops, did I say that out loud?
BTW, these changes are effective with the 2012 games, so my evil plan to tie Jim @ Outsports to a chair and force him to watch the softball competition from Beijing in 2008 is...oops, did I say that out loud?
QUOTE
kick:
I can think of other sports which are nearly not as widespread as others... tell me that (for example only) that equestrian (Eurocentric), badminton (Asia-centric) and handball (Euro-centric) are just as popular worldwide as baseball and softball.
Approximate number of countries with a national federation for each sport:I can think of other sports which are nearly not as widespread as others... tell me that (for example only) that equestrian (Eurocentric), badminton (Asia-centric) and handball (Euro-centric) are just as popular worldwide as baseball and softball.
Handball = 155
Badminton = 150
Equestrian = 130
Softball = 125
Baseball = 110
I can see adding golf and rugby. The others are nonsense. As for baseball, I do think there is anti-Americanism at play, as baseball is seen as a uniquely American sport. That's an inaccurate perception, however. In addition to being popular in both Canada and Mexico, It is hugely popular in every Spanish-speaking country in Central and South America and the Caribbean, and is also popular in many parts of Asia.
I guess like the millions of other average joes...my attention span is equivalent to that of a Gnat....anything longer then 2 minutes, is boring...LOL So that would rule out Baseball, Golf as a main draw for me, to watch during the games. And we all know that sports that draw the audience, in turn generate the revenue for the TV stations and sponsers. IMHO
To say it's anti-American is absolute BS. It's NOT a very popular sport world wide. It would be like having football (well American football).
I'd like to see rugby added. It's beginning to be more popular in the U.S. and it's popular elsewhere all over the world.
I'm surprised karate and golf aren't already in the Olympics.
I'd like to see rugby added. It's beginning to be more popular in the U.S. and it's popular elsewhere all over the world.
I'm surprised karate and golf aren't already in the Olympics.
I don't think anyone has made the claim that baseball has worldwide popularity. My particular point is that baseball is perceived by many to be solely of interest in America, and that is not accuarate. The success of professional leagues in Japan, Mexico, Korea, Venezuala, Puerto Rico, the Dominincan Republic, Nicaragua, and other countries bears that out. My off-the-cuff guess is that up to one third of the professional players in this country grew up playing the sport in a Spanish or Asian-speaking country.
Part of me hopes that Karate does not make it into the Olympics....I am a Karateka, and I think that Karate, if added, may become more of a sport, then a Martial Art.
There are many other aspects to the Marital Art then what we see at the Olympic games. Look at TKD..TKD, is a lot more then just high flying kicks...there are hand techniques, there are Forms.(prearranged sets of movement, against Imaginary Opponents) This has all been discarded in Olympic style competition, for the sake of flashier techniques.
I can just see the Olympic coverage of Karate Musical Forms(which are not part of Traditional Karate )...Basically, rythmic gymnastics but instead of a hoop, ball or ribbon on a stick, the practioner will use a weapon capable of maiming, and or killing another person. wink
Again just my opinion.
[ July 08, 2005, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: rickinto ]
There are many other aspects to the Marital Art then what we see at the Olympic games. Look at TKD..TKD, is a lot more then just high flying kicks...there are hand techniques, there are Forms.(prearranged sets of movement, against Imaginary Opponents) This has all been discarded in Olympic style competition, for the sake of flashier techniques.
I can just see the Olympic coverage of Karate Musical Forms(which are not part of Traditional Karate )...Basically, rythmic gymnastics but instead of a hoop, ball or ribbon on a stick, the practioner will use a weapon capable of maiming, and or killing another person. wink
Again just my opinion.
[ July 08, 2005, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: rickinto ]
The original link I posted is updated. And the sports replacing baseball and softball are....
(insert drum roll) wink
...NOTHING!
(insert drum roll) wink
...NOTHING!
QUOTE
With two slots open on the program, the IOC voted from a waiting list of five sports: golf, rugby, squash, karate and roller sports. Squash and karate were nominated for inclusion but were rejected overwhelmingly.
With a two-thirds margin required to join the program, members voted 63-39 against squash and 63-38 against karate. Rogge had proposed a show of hands for approval of the two sports but was booed by the delegates and forced to stick with a secret vote.
It was a stunning conclusion to a long, complex procedure that took nine rounds of voting. Rogge hailed the \"very democratic\" result while several members said the rejection of new sports signaled a sharp protest against the whole process.
\"Nobody was happy with the outcome in the morning, nobody was happy with the result of the afternoon,\" senior Canadian member Dick Pound said. \"And we've lost two sports and done nothing to replace them.\"
With a two-thirds margin required to join the program, members voted 63-39 against squash and 63-38 against karate. Rogge had proposed a show of hands for approval of the two sports but was booed by the delegates and forced to stick with a secret vote.
It was a stunning conclusion to a long, complex procedure that took nine rounds of voting. Rogge hailed the \"very democratic\" result while several members said the rejection of new sports signaled a sharp protest against the whole process.
\"Nobody was happy with the outcome in the morning, nobody was happy with the result of the afternoon,\" senior Canadian member Dick Pound said. \"And we've lost two sports and done nothing to replace them.\"
I wonder if "roller sports" are the activities spotlighted on the X-Games, such as skateboarding. If so, they have no place at the Olympics. When are they finally going to have musical chairs in the Olympics? wink
~Adam
~Adam
This is absolutely both disappointing and disgusting at the same time. And they want to replace it with roller sports, golf and rugby?
Roller sports? Summer speed skating, roller hockey, trick blading what?
Golf. Its on the entire year, I could do without it on the olympics especially on television.
Rugby. As far as I know there are only four nations in the world that actually play rugby and know what they're doing. The "Rugby" nations so to speak: England, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa. So year in and year out we'll always be watching these teams. Least I know I'll get some real sleep when this sport is on tv.
Sounds like the olympic committee needs to be hit with a smart stick. Watch, next they'll include lumberjack games into the olympics.
Roller sports? Summer speed skating, roller hockey, trick blading what?
Golf. Its on the entire year, I could do without it on the olympics especially on television.
Rugby. As far as I know there are only four nations in the world that actually play rugby and know what they're doing. The "Rugby" nations so to speak: England, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa. So year in and year out we'll always be watching these teams. Least I know I'll get some real sleep when this sport is on tv.
Sounds like the olympic committee needs to be hit with a smart stick. Watch, next they'll include lumberjack games into the olympics.
I just googled roller sports to find out what exactly they are. The international federation of roller sports only covers roller hockey, speed skating and artistic skating (all appear to be inline skating sports). They do not sanction freestyle, downhill or aggressive skating, although that could happen in the future. Skateboarding is not included in any of these categories, although there is some possibility it could fall into the "aggressive" category. So, to make a long story short, the official roller sports are only inline roller hockey, and inline speed and artistic skating. And they didn't make it into the Olympics anyway, so the world is safe from the apocalypse for 4 more years.
QUOTE
chargerhockey:
Watch, next they'll include lumberjack games into the olympics.
We can only hope. Some of those lumberjacks are pretty hot. wink
Watch, next they'll include lumberjack games into the olympics.
Does anyone know whether the proposed World Cup of Baseball had anything to do with the decision to eliminate the game from the Olympics?
~Adam
~Adam
While baseball and softball aren't the sports I would have voted to eliminate, dropping two sports from the Summer Olympic schedule is not a tragedy.
QUOTE
\"And we've lost two sports and done nothing to replace them.\"
Well, that makes the whole exercise rather idiotic. I was in favor of dropping sports as long as others were picked in their stead.
I think the anti-Americanism may be focused on softball, not baseball, as the Americans have basically walked away with the gold in all games with softball as a competitive sport - just a thought.
I think part of this is that the host country gets to compete in everything. Greece was not competitive in either baseball or softball, even using teams made up entirely of non-citizens of Greek heritage. It looked bad, and so those sports were at the top of the list They don't have European or African competitors and the Asian coverage is weak. North America is made up of three countries. South and Central America (one of those includes the Carribean nations, but I'm damned if I know which) do not have a strong presence in the IOC.
The only way this is going to get reversed, and it's going to take a long time, is for international baseball to get a presence in Europe and Africa and get native players of those countries to pressure their NOCs.
[ July 08, 2005, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: jqueer ]
The only way this is going to get reversed, and it's going to take a long time, is for international baseball to get a presence in Europe and Africa and get native players of those countries to pressure their NOCs.
[ July 08, 2005, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: jqueer ]
QUOTE
jqueer:
North America is made up of three countries. South and Central America (one of those includes the Carribean nations, but I'm damned if I know which) do not have a strong presence in the IOC.
Technically, Central America and the Caribbean are part of North America (South America begins at the far side of the Panama Ithsmus). However, in the IOC's view (and in the view of some relatives of mine in Europe), North and South America are not distinct continents. In their minds, there is one continent in the western hemisphere, The Americas, represented by the red ring in the Olympic rings.North America is made up of three countries. South and Central America (one of those includes the Carribean nations, but I'm damned if I know which) do not have a strong presence in the IOC.
[ July 08, 2005, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: aquaman ]
There's got to be some Anti-Americanism at play here, why drop two sports that are clearly thought of around the globe as American then not add any new ones. That move almost seemes to cement the Anti-Americanism....
as if to say we're dropping two sports for no other reason than it's an American thing and they're so unimportant that we won't even need to replace them with anything. We rather have nothing than baseball and softball.
as if to say we're dropping two sports for no other reason than it's an American thing and they're so unimportant that we won't even need to replace them with anything. We rather have nothing than baseball and softball.
Weaselman:
Thanks for the stats on the National Federations...I was not aware of those.
But I would still argue that there are more participants of baseball and softball worldwide..
BTW- I thought handball was one of the most exciting sports to watch in the Olympics and should get more coverage- I am surprised it has not increased in popularity in the states because it would be great for staying in shape, especially in the winter months.... although it is damn physical!!
Thanks for the stats on the National Federations...I was not aware of those.
But I would still argue that there are more participants of baseball and softball worldwide..
BTW- I thought handball was one of the most exciting sports to watch in the Olympics and should get more coverage- I am surprised it has not increased in popularity in the states because it would be great for staying in shape, especially in the winter months.... although it is damn physical!!
They replaced them with nothing. I am sooo glad Karate didn't make it, and as a Martial Artist, I hope WuShu doesn't make it. Olympic TKD killed the art, and Olympic Karate and WuShu would do the same.
I won't miss either sport, to be honest, although I certainly won't cry if synchronized swimming gets the boot. They need to cut more chaff as far as I'm concerned.
I won't miss either sport, to be honest, although I certainly won't cry if synchronized swimming gets the boot. They need to cut more chaff as far as I'm concerned.
Throughout this entire thread no one really talked about the true issues of why the IOC dropped baseball.
"In the case of baseball, the best athletes are not competing and the major athletes perform in an environment where doping controls are not what we have in the Olympic world," Rogge said in concluding a weeklong IOC session.
When baseball was admitted the IOC has always wanted MLB to send players to the Games much like the NBA sends players to the Games. You can come up with every excuse you want but the MLB knew their players would flunk the drug testing performed by the IOC, which would have exposed what we now know as the "decade of juice."
The IOC probably deserves the criticism of its handling of softball. I kind of wonder if it became the reluctant sister of baseball when it was rejected.
"In the case of baseball, the best athletes are not competing and the major athletes perform in an environment where doping controls are not what we have in the Olympic world," Rogge said in concluding a weeklong IOC session.
When baseball was admitted the IOC has always wanted MLB to send players to the Games much like the NBA sends players to the Games. You can come up with every excuse you want but the MLB knew their players would flunk the drug testing performed by the IOC, which would have exposed what we now know as the "decade of juice."
The IOC probably deserves the criticism of its handling of softball. I kind of wonder if it became the reluctant sister of baseball when it was rejected.
Good point, RBear. The NBA stars were able to pass stringent Olypics steroids test, but it seems unlikely that all the MLB stars would be able to, too.
Also, the Olympics overlaps the MLB season, which makes it difficult for players to go. Canada was unable to send Justin Morneau or Jeff Francis last year because they had been promoted to the Twins and Rockies from triple A.
Also, the Olympics overlaps the MLB season, which makes it difficult for players to go. Canada was unable to send Justin Morneau or Jeff Francis last year because they had been promoted to the Twins and Rockies from triple A.
also getting MLB club to allow even their farmhand to play in the Olympics was a big pain in the neck.
Back in 2000, the Buffalo Bisons(Cleveland - AAA) had an Australian named Cam Cairncross on their roster. Cam very much wanted to play for his national team in an Olympics that was being played in his home country. For whatever reason the Tribe would not release him to do so, which I for one found absolutely disgusting on the Tribe's part....but that's just me.
Back in 2000, the Buffalo Bisons(Cleveland - AAA) had an Australian named Cam Cairncross on their roster. Cam very much wanted to play for his national team in an Olympics that was being played in his home country. For whatever reason the Tribe would not release him to do so, which I for one found absolutely disgusting on the Tribe's part....but that's just me.
I'd be up for golf being in the Olympics if it were restricted to amateurs. The pros already have their four majors.
It would be tough to keep the pros out if they wanted to play, and plus the idea of the world's best going for gold.....I don't know how much golf fans around the globe would want to watch amateurs play....
It would actually be pretty cool if the pros could play, especially in match play. Could you imagine how huge a quadrennial golf event similar to the Ryder Cup(on a global scale) would be???
Admittedly the US would kick butt with the deeper talent pool, but maybe not.
[ July 11, 2005, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: blueraider ]
It would actually be pretty cool if the pros could play, especially in match play. Could you imagine how huge a quadrennial golf event similar to the Ryder Cup(on a global scale) would be???
Admittedly the US would kick butt with the deeper talent pool, but maybe not.
[ July 11, 2005, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: blueraider ]
QUOTE
blueraider:
Admittedly the US would kick butt with the deeper talent pool, but maybe not.
I'd go with the 'maybe not.' The Europeans have won the last two Ryder Cups, and that team doesn't include the likes of Ernie Els, Reteif Goosen, Vijay Singh, Mike Weir, K.J. Choi, Shigeki Maruyama, Adam Scott, etc. Admittedly the US would kick butt with the deeper talent pool, but maybe not.
The U.S. may have more quantity of top golfers, but if it comes down to the top 1 or 2 players from each country, anybody could win.
QUOTE
For whatever reason the Tribe would not release him to do so, which I for one found absolutely disgusting on the Tribe's part....but that's just me.
Some of us like to blame the Americans for holding back players... and thereby weakening non-American teams.
QUOTE
blueraider:
It would actually be pretty cool if the pros could play, especially in match play. Could you imagine how huge a quadrennial golf event similar to the Ryder Cup(on a global scale) would be???
Admittedly the US would kick butt with the deeper talent pool, but maybe not.
If you can think of a way to set up a global Ryder Cup that could take place in the two-week span of the Olympics on tournament quality courses, let me know, because I sure can't. It would have to be some kind of stroke play event, maybe modeled off college golf (5 people play, 4 best scores are taken each round) and using R&A rules. And the US would not necessarily win, as recent European blowouts in the Ryder and Palmer Cups have proven.It would actually be pretty cool if the pros could play, especially in match play. Could you imagine how huge a quadrennial golf event similar to the Ryder Cup(on a global scale) would be???
Admittedly the US would kick butt with the deeper talent pool, but maybe not.
The more I think about it, the more of a boondoggle it seems. Can you imagine Tiger Woods or even top amateurs playing on the same course as some guy from Afghanistan shooting 92? Golf doesn't need the Olympics and they sure don't need golf.
Former MLB commissioner Fay Vincent pretty much sums up the reasons for the Olympic committee dropping baseball and softball. And it agrees pretty much with what I would expect: 1-The best players wont go because of the difference in illegal substance testing between MLB and the International Olympic Committee and 2-The relative lack of "popularity" of a sport strongly identified with the USA. Where I disagree with the article is on the popularity of Greco-Roman wrestling. There the author's view is parochial.
[ July 12, 2005, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: sportinlife ]
[ July 12, 2005, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: sportinlife ]
I'm certain that in a short time span stroke play would work best. I'm just thinking in general about the idea of a "World Cup" style golf event would be really great if it could be done considering how popular an event like the Ryder Cup is.
As for someone from Afghanistan shooting such a high score, that type person wouldn't make it to the Olympics. I'm sure that there would be some sort of Olympic quaifying rounds played in the weeks prior....Just like say the US Open has for its event, and like so many other sport make participants go through qualifying events to make the big stage.
and what the heck....can you think of any other Olympic event that Fiji has a remote chance to medal in??? You go Vijay!! wink
As for someone from Afghanistan shooting such a high score, that type person wouldn't make it to the Olympics. I'm sure that there would be some sort of Olympic quaifying rounds played in the weeks prior....Just like say the US Open has for its event, and like so many other sport make participants go through qualifying events to make the big stage.
and what the heck....can you think of any other Olympic event that Fiji has a remote chance to medal in??? You go Vijay!! wink
hi, i was just wondering why did they take out softball and baseball from the olympics?.....I am a softball player who has my heart in the game..i have been playing softball for 10 years now.....and that is what my goal was to be on that team and play with natasha watley and jenny finch and ect..........well i just wanted to post a comment on everything i could soo they would put it back in...
thanks,
ashleigh
thanks,
ashleigh
oo i forgot something i just wanted to tell jim outsports to kiss my butt caz softball is my life and in other countries it is other peoples lifes too.....so put that in your brain and think.....just wondering do u even play any sports i bet you don't...thats all bye
QUOTE(Jeg7777 @ Jul 8 2005, 06:47 AM) 
I don't even know what "roller sports" are -- they're not talking about roller derby, I presume, so what exactly are they?
BTW, these changes are effective with the 2012 games, so my evil plan to tie Jim @ Outsports to a chair and force him to watch the softball competition from Beijing in 2008 is...oops, did I say that out loud?
"Roller Sports" includes the following:
Roller Derby
Roller Hockey
Figure (or Artistic) Skating
Speed Skating
For more info, check USA Roller Sports
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