Okay kids, we have about a half dozen threads going and none seemed like the right one to post those "i just watched a game and want to chat about it" messages. So can we make this the general World Cup spot?

I caught the last 15 minutes of the Spain/Slovenia match and it must have been the best part. Three goals scored at the end.

Did anyone see the Slovenian guy get hammered in the penalty box with less than 10 minutes left? Should have definitely been a penalty kick and then a few minutes later, Spain was gifted a p kick on a 50/50 ball. Wow. I bet the Slovenians are furious.

[ June 02, 2002: Message edited by: curtj ]

Agreed. Post results/on-field comments here. Post your hotties on hot jock talk.

England were shambolic v Sweden. Get a grip, lads!

Okay, I actually watched some of England-Sweden on ABC's tape delay. Near the end of the game Jack Edwards is calling the game and a player was close in and was taking a shot. "Just wide!" Edwards screamed...just BEFORE the shot was actually taken. Whether he's in the studio or not, shouldn't someone fix the sound so that it matches up to the action?

I saw/heard a number of disjointed breaks in ABC's transmission in general during the England-Sweden match. Don't know if Comcast (local cable feed) was to blame but there was technical and audio lost during possibly critical moments and odd drops in audio a few times besides. Not to mention less than perfect angles on goals and near misses. Sometimes the camera barely got back to the action in time to catch an attempt on the goal.

There were repeated comments about the wacky movement of the new ball but not enough good replays to show what the announcers claimed was happening.

On the other hand some player close-ups were quite "rewarding." I especially liked the ones of Marcus Allback and Niclas Alexandersson. Maybe someone at ABC had a "blonde moment" and missed action while focusing on them. I know I would.

I was also surprised the Swedes were able to take Michael Owen out of the game with their defense. In spite of holding England to a tie their mostly plodding game and risky long shots at the goal could be a problem against taller defenders like the Nigerians or Argentina.

I think it interesting that you guys mention the commentator saying a shot "just wide" before the shot's even taken on a "live feed"

I was watching today's matches but was going back and forth between ESPN and Univision's coverage of the same games.

I noticed that the live action on ESPN happens about 5 seconds AFTER the same "live action" on Univision.

so obviously ESPN and its parent company, ABC, are using a few seconds of delay (in case anything offensive comes up?)...... and should there be a wire crossed here or there, then the sound may be actual time while video is delayed. that's my theory anyway.

I'm watching most of the games on Univision, which is running them on tape and live. The Spanish isn't too hard to figure out if you know a little, so I highly recommend it--the commentators know their stuff.

I saw Ireland vs. Cameroon, and then today I saw Nigeria vs. Argentina. Hot, hot, hot. I'll personally console the Nigerians if they need it, though Crespo and Veron of Argentina were sexy too. But back to the games, I thought Nigeria was going to score first. Both games were pretty good, lots of back and forth, speed, you name it.

I missed England, but that Sol Campbell is delicious. Germany bodyslammed the Saudis--that was an ugly match.

What does everyone think of watching games on tape delay, knowing what the final score is going to be?

Like if you know a game ends 1-0 and you've seen the goal scored, is there any reason to watch the rest of the game?

On the other hand, after seeing Paraguay dominate South Africa and take a 2-0 lead half way through the game, I would have stopped watching except I knew the game would end 2-2. Paraguay ended up scoring on their own goal and then gave up another on a penalty kick. Drat, and those Paraguayans are so hot!

Generally I like watching delayed games as much eating cold pizza..but when you're really hungry cold pizza is gourmet eating.

The Paraguay-SA game rocked. SA benefited from two lucky breaks but they 'earned' that luck. Sibusiso Zuma never scored but kept them in the game, and the pressure on, lending to less-than-sparkling play by Paraguay later on. I think the deflected shot (own goal?) would have gone in anyhow but it was impossible to tell from the camera angle (one of many bad ones IMO.)

The Paraguay goalie may have miscalculated in both his tactics and choice of victum when he committed the fowl that lead to the last goal. He probably didn't need to challenge Quinton Fortune that far out or at least not grab his leg to cause the foul, and when I heard the announcer say Fortune currently plays for Manchester United I counted the goal before he kicked the ball.

Allez, Allez, USA!!
Way to go men!!
The USA was brilliant today in all three thirds of the field, especially in the midfield even without Claudio. DaMarcus Beasley and Landon Donovan showed poise and talent in the attacking third, especially Beasley as he dribbled down to the corner in the final minutes of stoppage time. The Americans stepped up and took the Portuguese out of their game from the beginning, and there's no question that a goal in the 4th minute is going to rattle the opposition--even if Portugal has come back from deficits like that before. They hit combinations all over the place and attacked smartly--like that overlap from Donovan to Sanneh which resulted in the 3rd goal. John O'Brien was all over the place and really set the stage with hustle and grit.
The emotions are going to be tough to maintain as they have a game against host Korea in two days, but what a great start to the Finals. Now they will advance to the second round with a win over Poland (probable) or Korea (very very possible).
Enjoy the win, America!!!

Pardon me for dragging such a fine analysis down to a base level--but it was a damn exciting game, with a LOT of hotties--and then at the end when they took their shirts off...WOW! McBride has un unbelieavable body, among many! Running around with sweat dripping off their shimmering bods...


They're repeating it again at 3pm Eastern, and it's worth taping hoping they show the post-game shirtless excitement.

The ESPN commentator in the studio afterwards--a former World Cup player from '94--said they were going to really enjoy the win in the locker room together, then go out and "call their girlfriends and wives and family and friends."

I was just hoping for a slip of the lip with the addition of "boyfriends!"

McBride Sweats His Stuff!

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Brent ]

GO USA! Having Donovan and Beasley start was terrific -- gave us speed. I feel bad for Agoos -- but the way Portugal had turned up the heat in the second half, I felt it really was only a matter of time before they scored that second goal (regardless of who kicked it!)

O'Brien, Donovan and McBride must have warmed the heart of every suburban soccermom in the country. Unfortunately that preaches to the converted. Glad to see folks here noticed the invaluable supporting play of Beasley, perhaps the future of soccer: excellent ball control and positioning of his teammates with deft unselfish passing.

I would add Sanneh and, especially, Earnie Stewart who virtually singlehandedly took FIFA Player of the Year Luis Figo out of the game in the first half. Granted, Figo still has the aftereffects of an ankle injury, but he could still have been dangerous setting up his teammates with crossing passes.

Condolences to Jeff Agoos and Eddie Pope, both perhaps showing their age, one with a costly miscalcualted kick and the other with a charlie horse in the second half. Wish the view Agoos had up Pope's shorts while he worked out that charlie horse were some consolation for his sorrow but alas I doubt he appreciated what for me would have been a little peak at heaven on earth.

After the game against the Dutch and previous World Cup tragedies, I held little hope for our team... but I woke up at 5am the watch anyway because I love the game and our guys.... WOW!!!! It is going to be some much easier working all day... I have the energy and excitement to make it... thanks TEAM USA!!!! Beat South Korea!!!!

Pope played a brilliant game of defence. He stopped at least a dozen scoring opportunities. And it was fun to watch the US finally convert on their own scoring opps. I'm so glad they held Poortugal off.

The U.S. won without Reyna--wow!

Pope and Joe-Max Moore in the second half were excellent, and I have to say the 3-0 run was mindblowing--Donovan and Beasley are just what the U.S. has needed, speedy players who can handle the ball rather than plodders who aren't sure why they're out there. Definite big ups to McBride, O'Brien, Sanneh and Stewart as well.


Bigger Photo of Cobi Jones

I also felt bad for Jeff Agoos, but the U.S. did win. Bring on the Republic of South Korea!!!

Love Cobi Jones brilliant delaying tactics near the end of the game but his most daring feat was to wear that 'henna-tinged buckwheat hairdo' in front of a wiewing audience of 1 billion people.

Is that a bold fashion statement or what?

What's up with France? -- after losing to Senegal, they play to a tie with Uruguay -- it can't just be the loss of Zidane. There was a period of 5-10 minutes when Uruguay really turned up the speed -- and nearly scored 3 times. France's best opportunities seemed to come from the corner kicks. Can't wait for the Denmark v. France game next week!

Senegal-Denmark was the best soccer I've seen in the cup so far. Admittedly I haven't seen the Germans play but I can't imagine them being any better than these two since Ireland brought them back to earth with a tie after the Saudi Arabia wipeout.

These two teams went at it like there was no tomorrow and national pride depended on the outcome - and maybe it did. I thought the Senegal fouls were more flagrant and their skill much higher. Both resulted from an uncontrolled overflow of enthusiasm and loss of discipline.

I didn't pick either of these teams to win their group but now I'm hoping they both make it out.

[quote]Originally posted by sportinlife:
Senegal-Denmark was the best soccer I've seen in the cup so far.

---

So sportinlife ... that means you were up at 2:30 this a.m.? Whew! I contemplated doing that, but decided that my VCR was a better choice! Any bets on the Argentina v. England match?

[quote]Originally posted by DCBucky:
Any bets on the Argentina v. England match?

---

The only sure bet is that there will be scorched earth on the playing field.

I picked England to win the F---ing group so they had better win this game. I'm going with the 'Falklands replay' theory.

[quote]Originally posted by sportinlife:
I'm going with the 'Falklands replay' theory.

---

Does that involve sheep? I had picked Argentina and the Swedes to advance -- as the sleeper -- if you can call any team that in the "Group of Death" ... we'll see how they do vs. Nigeria.

[quote]Originally posted by DCBucky:

Does that involve sheep?

---

Only if they want to become lambchops...Have you heard the one about the shepherd who stands a sheep at a cliff to get it to 'cooperate.' - they always back-up! Wonder if that would work with David Beckham?

Watch for Nigeria's Jay Jay to put on a show. I hear he can be as much fun to watch as those 'Globetrotter du futbol' the Senegalese.

I would not be so eager to take on Korea if I were yous guys.

Go Korea!!!

Sweden 2, Nigeria 1.

GOOOOOOOOOOOOO Sverige!!!!!

I do hope the English win but I just dont think they can upset Argentina.

Argentina just got a dose of their own bad medicine -- committing a foul in the box -- and Beckham scored the penalty kicked. It really looked afterward like the weight of the world was lifted off his shoulders -- not just from the kick but from all the pre-game hype. Maybe England will open its game up in the second half?? Neither they nor the Argentines seem to have gotten on track during the first.

I also heard my favorite name so far in the Cup: England's Nicky Butt!

... and btw go Sverige!

[ June 07, 2002: Message edited by: DCBucky ]

Both England and Argentina looked hesitant and gentlemanly at first. I thought Argentina had committed three clumsy fouls at first because they look bigger and bulkier than the Brits.

But Ashley Cole, I think justifiably, suspected the fouls were deliberate and responded with his own flagrant foul in revenge.

I thought Michael Owen was undefendable, even triple teamed, and was as responsible for England's only goal as Beckham - maybe more so.

This must be a sweet victory for England and it will be interesting to see if they can maintain their motivation to stay in the running to get out of the group. Now that they've gotten this nerve-racker out of the way they should play with more confidantly.

Self-Edit (maybe making matters worse): Cute Michael Owen could never be indefensible, but was undefendable.

[ June 07, 2002: Message edited by: sportinlife ]

England's in the driver's seat to win the Group of Death -- they play Nigeria, who are eliminated. The Sweden v. Argentina matchup is gonna be another great one!

W D L GF GA PTS
SWE 1 1 0 3 2 4
ENG 1 1 0 2 1 4
ARG 1 0 1 1 1 3
NGA 0 0 2 1 3 0

Great result for England.

I just couldn't drag myself out of bed at 4:30 am local time and I hate watching sports on tape, so I missed it. Apparently, it was a real nail-biter. Of course, it would have been better if Becks had curled one of his trademark free kicks past the keeper from 40 yards out, but, hey, a penalty, I'll take that! For those who watched, was the call legit or did the Red Scum (Go Everton!) Owen take a dive?

I just hope that England doesn't let up on the gas pedal--it would be so typical for them to lose to Nigera on a goal by Nigeria in the 89th minute and get bounced out. The winner of the group has an easier ride than the 2nd place finisher.

On to US vs. Korea. I *think* that's Sunday night at 11:30 pm (Pacific time), so I'll stay up and watch it. It's a drag the TV schedule is so screwed up for US viewers but I understand the reasons. For once, the USA doesn't call the tune.

Owen dive? How could you even think such a thing? Let's get this clear - foreign players deliberately dive; English players just sometimes fall over if the grass is aa bit slippy. And if that tends to happen more often in the penalty area that is pure coincidence.

Okay, if it was a dive, that's just karmic payback, or have you per chance forgotten "The Hand of God"?

No, I haven't forgotten the Hand of God--neither has England. Of course, that was a little before the time I was really fanatical about football so my point of reference is Simeone acting liked he'd been cut in half by machine gun fire after Beckham's love tap then bouncing up and running on to the pitch 2 minutes later. GRRRRRR.....

I watched the England v. Argentina match on Saturday. It was clearly a penalty; there was no complaint from Argentina. The look of sheer rapture on Beckham's face at the corner flag was totally brilliant. Nothing'll ever erase the nightmare of 1998, but it was nice nonetheless.

It's 12:50 am Los Angeles time and I'm watching the US v. Korea. 1-0 to the US; I thought they were going in to the half tied at 1 but the Korean had his penalty stopped by Friedel. Well done--another Yank playing in England.

Clint Mathis looks pathetic with his mohawk.

OK, ok....one point is one point. While the USA looked solid in the first half, they looked gassed in the second--almost as if they were going to bunker for the whole 45. They had played with fire (thanks, Brad!!) but still managed a point. I'm not sure why Bruce didn't use all three subs, but I'm not about to second guess him. The USA got the point, and it was through grit and determination. I think that both teams played well in spurts...

Looking ahead, the USA play Poland while Korea play Portugal. Should the USA win, 7 points will put them ahead of the group and the winner of the Korea-Portugal match will also advance. Should the USA win by only a goal and Korea win, then Korea is #1 and the USA is #2. If the USA wins and Portgual wins then the USA is #1 and Portgual is #2. We shall see.

until then, go USA!!!

"I'd kiss their bums in the shower!"

Ron Hudson, on ESPN after the game [DC coach?] answering what he would tell the players in the lockerroom after the game. And I think we'd all say a hearty "Amen!" to that too!

The list of players I'd happily follow into the showers is long...but unfortunately ESPN's post-game shirt-exchange coverage is much MUCH too short! Players that don't do this not only aren't good sportsmen, they're clearly not very aware of proper marketing.

Some teams are more likely than others--take Spain as an example--others are sullen if not actually hostile to others.


If I were the FIFA commissioner, I'd fine them if they didn't switch shirts.

If they didn't--there wouldn't be any ass-kissing in the shower, that's for sure!

Morientes demonstrates proper shirtless marketing

[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: Brent ]

USA got by with a squeaker against S. Korea. The way USA played they could have lost by at least three goals.
Ahn Jung Hwan could score with me any time but Jeff Agoos dropped the ball letting him inside to tie the match.

Does anyone have photos of the real highlight of the game - that shirt exchange with the buff Koreans strutting around shirtless? I'd looove to see more of sexy Ahn among others.

Clint Mathis may have made progress toward HIS apparent goal of scoring a multi-million dollar contract with a German squad after his score in the first half (which I unfortunately missed), but he didn't help the squad with his lackadaisical play in the second. His inspired creativity is only exceeded by his sluggishness and lack of defense in the end-game.

Come on Clint, WE need you!

Claudio Reyna was brilliant - even with his faking to be badly fouled to delay the game when an exhausted USA was about to be run over by a Korea squad with bottomless reserve.

Cross your fingers if you're rooting for Sam's Army. Things will only get tougher for the USA from here on in.

The way Korea kept attacking was amazing -- the ball always seemed to be down near the U.S. goal. I liked the little strut that Ahn Jung Hwan did after scoring -- the announcer said it was an imitation of a speedskater -- shows how big that sport is over there.

... turns out it was an "Ohno ceremony" -- meant to ridicule Apollo Ohno:

"A goal down midway through the second half, striker Ahn Jung-hwan tied it, heading home a kick from Lee Eul-yong. Some 60,000 red-clad home fans erupted in wild cheers, shouting "Oh, oh, Korea."

Ahn then ran to one corner of the field and performed what South Koreans call an "Ohno ceremony," simulating speedskating gestures. A half-dozen teammates joined him, sliding back and forth as if on the ice.

The ceremony was meant to ridicule American Apolo Anton Ohno, who was awarded the gold medal in a short-track speedskating event at the Salt Lake City Olympics after South Korean Kim Dong-sung was disqualified for allegedly blocking Oho with a half-lap to go. Kim crossed the line first.

"We knew that our people still have some grudge against the United States for the skating incident, so we wanted to allay that with the goal ceremony. It would have been much better if we had won the match," Ahn said.

Ahn's celebration drew thunderous cheers from the home crowd, which chanted "Ahn Jung-hwan, Ahn Jung-hwan." A satisfied coach Guus Hiddink pumped his fists in a trademark victory gesture.

There was no comment from South Korean officials about the "Ohno ceremony."

[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: DCBucky ]

Its puzzling why Arena didn't sub earlier than he did in the second half... (lord knows it paid off for Korea).

It seemed to me that whenever the US pressed the attack, Korea fell apart in the back. If we had sub'ed fresh legs in earlier, I think we could have keep the ball up field and won a couple of goals (we need the goal differential IMHO) and could have walked with 3pts.

When we make it thru the group (and we will!), I'm a bit worried about us going up against Mexico... they've been looking very good their last couple of matches... and lord knows they will see it as a grudge match.

Also, it seems that no one here knows that Agoos plays for "our" team on occasion... I've known this for about 8 years, so even tho he's getting long-in-the-tooth and this will probably be his last WC, we can be thrilled to know that we have one our own out there !!!

[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: Tomm ]

Wow Tomm, Jeff a member! Certanily don't want to hurt opporunity for the guy but this isn't the first time he's shown his age. He's scored an own goal in the Portugal match and was supercautious against the Koreans - kicking a loose ball to the sideline and losing possesion rather than tapping it to the goalie and retaining it.

True both options are dangerous but he might have decided differently when he was younger and before that own goal.

I have a lot of respect for Agoos and his accomplishments, likewise for Eddie Pope. But I fear they are both suffering from the inevitable near thirtyism jitters and stiffness. Scoccer can be more unforgiving than any of the Major sports.

I actually watched this game (weird sleep patterns this weekend...ugh). I am no soccer expert by any means, but I thought the US had no real offensive strategy other than to try and get it to speedy players like Donovan and Beasley and let them try to make something happen. Korea was much more effective on offense and really should've won.

I picked up right away on the speedskating pantomine after the Korean goal. Not exactly an effective protest since hardly anyone in the US gives much of a damn about either sport.

Crap. I should have waited to post before the game ended. That really was Sunday-league marking on the corner by Agoos. He's been a stalwart for years but do they have some fresher legs that they can replace him with? And where was Joe-Max Moore, who plays for Everton (Go you Blues), he's usually good off of the bench? I think the US got away from playing the ball to the wings and tried the horrible long ball tactics. Mathis' goal was really well taken, with the left foot even. I like the Korean's attacking style, they could have easily had 3 goals. Great work by Freidel on the penalty and the rebound.

I didn't get the Ohno reference during the goal celebration--I thought "What the f**k are they doing?". Thanks for the info guys!

As mentioned, the US has to feel happy with a tie. Reading the standings, I *think* the US has already qualified for the next round, it's only a matter of placing/who they'll play, is that correct? If they play Mexico in the next round, that'll be huge, especially here in Los Angeles. The US has had a good run against Mexico so it could probably go either way.

HUGE game on Tuesday night at 11:30 (Pacific): England vs. Nigera. England should win but they've broken my heart so many times since 1990 that I don't take anything for granted.

My reading on the standings is the U.S. has not yet qualified for the next round -- Korea (4), U.S. (4) and Portugal (3) -- by virtue of their wipeout this a.m. of Poland. So if the U.S. were to lose to Poland, and Korea and Portugal were to tie -- the U.S. and Portugal would then be tied in second place with 4 points -- but Portugal would get the berth due to goal differential.

yes the US has alreadyqualified to the next round. They're guaranteed at leasta #2 position from the group.

as far as the post-goal celebration.... I think the ESPN announcer was way off base by calling it a "low class display". And what does he think about post-dunk celebrations in the NBA or post-touchdown celebrations?

What I, as a korean, loved the most is not who won or lost. But the tremendous amount of energy that emanates from the relentless chanting, screaming, singing and drum beating of the crowds. THAT is one of the major reasons why Futbol is so damn exciting.

last words. Clint Mathis.... Mohawk... terrible. the least he could do is tan his scalp before going out on the field. he looks like a walking cadaver.

Thanks for the analysis, DC Bucky. I posted my question before seeing the Portugal result. US is not guaranteed a spot in the final 16 by any means; huge game against Poland on Friday. Too bad it's on at 4:30 am my time; I just can't stay up to watch and hope to be coherent at work. I might actually tape this one.

Big game for France tonight against Denmark. Brent, set your VCR for the end of that one, the shirt exchange could be awesome!

Wow, I'm finally getting excited by the World Cup. After the miserable season Everton had, I was kind of off football for a bit, but seeing a whole match last night reminded me why I love the sport. And Ung, yeah, seeing that whole stadium in red, chanting their heads off, was awesome. One of my greatest sports moments was walking through a tunnel at Old Trafford for a Man U. vs. Chelsea FA Cup tie and when I got out of the tunnel, hearing that amazing sound of 57,000 people chanting and singing. Goose bump time, definitely. I can't wait for Manchester United to come here to Los Angeles in July for a match; it'll be their pre-season training and they promise to bring along the full first team. No word on where or who the opponents'll be, but I'm so there. Go Becks! Go Giggsy! Go Scholes!

I think I'm right in saying no host nation has ever failed to reach the second stage so really the US need to beat Poland cos Portugal have a better goal difference.

Live Soccer - Donde Esta?

Someone may have mentioned it before, but check out your local Spanish-language channels for live coverage of the World Cup. Last night, here in SF, I was pleased to discover - ah, serendipity! - that KDTV, Channel 14, was running the games live from Korea starting at 11:30 p.m. PDT. Whoever posted this earlier was right; it's not that hard to understand what's going on once you get the rythym of the tongue and listen for cognates. And it sure was exciting to watch the USA tie Korea and learn a bit more about the game in the process. Dos thumbs up!

Not only is it not that hard to follow, I haven't been able to figure out offsides in soccer until I watched part of the US v. S. Korea match on Unavision. The camera angels are better and they actually showed what exactly the American (in this case) had done to be offside.

Right you are, JQ! It's interesting to see and hear some actually intelligent sports commentary for a change. Too much US coverage "assumes" too much knowledge on the part of the viewer. In legal terms, the networks need to "lay the foundation" to get their point across. Univision is doing it nicely.

Oooooh. Defending champ France is in trouble now. They're down a goal to Denmark and are lucky not to be down at least one more. The FIFA site says that whenever these teams have met in world cup play, the winner has gone on to win the whole deal. Lookin' good for Denmark, but there's 60 minutes left.

Go Denmark! What a great win -- and France now becomes the first defending champs to finish competition without scoring a goal. Next round for the Danes will be a great match -- vs. the second place team in the Group of Death -- probably the Swedes or Argentines.

.. but these 2:25 a.m. matches are killing me -- that's two in a row for me -- and I'd love to see the Sweden v. Argentina one tonight ...

Thanks to Outsports (Cyd/Jim) for the Sportserver Link. Looks like a good place to keep track. It's in today's Picture This.

BTW In today's Bottom, you guys are a little tough on the Poles. With ex-winner France scoreless they are in pretty good company. And I have to face my Polish banker so no Polish jokes ok.

[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: sportinlife ]