But I thought America was so evil and Europe was so enlightened and caring and...

Racism rears its ugly head in Europe.

What's your point? I don't think the article says much about "Those Europeans". Surely you don't generalzie about a whole continent based on the actions of a few people at a soccer game. If so, I would hate to think of how you generalize about Americans based on attending an Eagles game for example......silly post

And, also, if we brand an entire community for the actions of a few, God only knows what other people think of us after reading Little Filly's "towelhead" rants.

Isn't it the definition of bias to ascribe the actions of a few fans to an entire continent?

That being said, Norway is one of the few Europeans who want do not want to be part of the European Union.

When do Europeans ever parse their hatred of Americans?

When do the right wingnuts parse their hatred for any country that disagrees with the U.S.?

Number One, you have never been to an Iggles game. I personally have worse behavior at a Cardz game. But hey, St louis fans are a bunch-a little lemmings anyway.

Actually this poor guys should feel lucky, had been in frenchie land.. he probably wouldnt have gotten a shower.. let alone.. SOAP.

All except for the Dutch, i really like the dutch. They never seem to bother anyone and keep their yaps shut.

I am a bit torn right now at who is the most spineless... the Frenchie or the weak spanish. Maybe we need to have germany march their tanks through their streets... AGAIN.. for what the 5th time this century????

Yeah, Little Filly...the Dutch...you sure could learn a lot from the Dutch.

EXACTLY, they walk around their airport in Schiful or however you spell it with machine guns. Those dutch dont mess around.

I didnt really like their TV. Cause, you know, i dont speak dutch. Most of them do speak english, but their TV sucks. They also got all those wonderful whatever flowers in the country side...

Then again i kinda like the "check" folks too, i mean, from what i've seen.. everyone just frolicks through the countryside where hot boys are just... well you know what i mean...

Denmark is sorta like a worthless nation. altho, they could beat the hell outta the french in a war, but hey, who hasnt?

Uh Philly, the United States wouldn't exist if it weren't for the French.

ah, that leads to the question.. what does 1776 and 2004 have in common for Frenchie?

Neither of um used soap.

As someone who went to France and 3 other European countries DURING the Iraq invasion, I never had one single "problem" over 3 weeks. In France, I never experienced anyone who 'smelled' or didn't shave their arm pits or any other stereotype you want to bring up.

I actually found French people to be more friendly than the other countries I visited, including the UK.

Were your allergies bothering you?

...and France would still be part of the Third Reich, if it weren't for the United States.

and Joe Gibbs, didnt he win WWII also?

Yes.

Mainly to stir the masses and see a few certain folks go ballistic. It was getting kinda boring in here.

Will your bigoted ways of thinking ever change? Educate yourself, damnit...you are only shaming yourself and distancing yourself from others on the board whom you don't even know. Why would you do that? I am sick of your maladjusted opinions about situations and people you obviously think you are better than...which proves time and time again the real truth of how little you do know about the world.

Why is it nobody talks about Lichtenstein? Or even Luxembourg?

The reason that Germany lost WW2 is because they ran outta gas! Haven't you seen the Battle of the Bulge!? wink

Ah, Luxembourg, the richest country per capita, according to some indices, on earth--a small, Franco-Germanic little Grand Duchy that actually got kidslapped by Belgium, of all countries, but hey, why should that be a blemish--because they're rich, rich, rich! Luxembourgers, being smart, aren't part of the Coalition of the Begging and they also arent helping to bankroll W's folly (sorry Pholly!) in Iraq. They did help found the EU, though--so MIB, do you want to paint them with your sloppy broad brush?

Ah, Liechtenstein, that tiny little money-laundering slip of a country between Austria (of which it was once a part) and Switzerland, the highly armed, very rich, suicide capital of Europe, the Country of a Thousand Years of Peace, which also isn't part of the Coalition of the Begging, or the EU for that matter, or any Union, except its own confederation. There are more people in 20 Brooklyn blocks than all of Liechtenstein. Hey, lil' Pholly, you know they actually DO speak French there (along with German--he's such a little Stormtrooper he never kriticizes the Germans-giddy up, tally ho!)!

Speaking of other small, European nations, what about Andorra, Monaco, and Malta? Are any of them among the Coalition of the Begging?

PhllyFan Wrote...

"I am a bit torn right now at who is the most spineless... the Frenchie or the weak spanish. Maybe we need to have germany march their tanks through their streets... AGAIN.. for what the 5th time this century???? "

Perhaps you can read a little history before such comments:

I assume you refer to last century, unless Germany, Spain and USA are no longer all part of NATO, and German tanks are now on the mvoe

1. Spain was a Facist State under Franco and sided with the Nazi during WW2, so no German tanks going thru their streets during the last 130 Years or so

2. France was partitioned with the Nazis occupation and the Pro-Nazi Vichy Regime under Marshal Petain. As I recall the French defeated the Germans in WW1 and WW2, with huge losses of French people in both wars. And yes the Americans provided much support to Britain and France, prior to USA declaring War on Germany in 1941

3. The USA only provided troups in the last days of WW1 in 1917-1918, and many feel they were hardly decisive in that war as to the victory; although their losses were tragic for all those involved.

4. Tanks in WW1 were used by British first in 1916 and as for German Tanks running through the French / Spanish Streets, there were only some 20 German Tanks in the whole of WW1.

5. As both Spain and France have had wars (civil and/or WW1 , WW2) on their soil, there are non-combatant people still living who know at first hand what it is to live in a War Zone. This is contrary to almost all of recent USA modern history excluding some time with American-Spanish War. As such, perhaps this is why some Europeans are more comitted to Diplomatic rather than military solutions to problems, no matter how imperfect and faulty such solutions may be.

Smoothboy

[ May 13, 2004, 03:51 AM: Message edited by: smoothboy99 ]

You're kidding, right? Our Little Filly ever basing something on fact? Never gonna happen since every accusation he throws up on this board is based in his own little reality of chickenhawks and milkshakes.

I can't wait to see who all took part in taking the "oil for food" money. That in itself is disgusting.

By the way, Where do you think the world would be today without America?

I'm convinced that Phillyfan is really a psychology student who posts absurb, illogical, poorly written propaganda just to make thoughtful people crazy. He's probably doing research for a dissertation about the psychology of anonymous debate through internet message boards. I just hope he credits all of us, his research subjects, in his footnotes.

Dr. Phillyfan, you really had some of us going....good one! wink

The unfortunate thing about filly is that his worldview, however warped, is the one that get's portrayed in the international media when talking about Americans.

I am a regular reader of British and EU news, and when the whole "freedom fries" escapade started, it was almost universal derision towards American Politicians.

But the portrayal of Americans as ass****s is not the only media trick.

American media regulary portrays other countrys in a bad light if they disagree with American policy. Canadians were called traitors, France and Germany were told that "if they're not with us, there against us". Muslims are regularly seen to be the mass evil, rather than a few fanatics.

Somehow I think that if we ignored the media and politicians, we'ed see each other differently.

As for my allegiance.

I have:

My father was born and raised in Canada
My mother was born and raised in Britain
My sisters were born in the United States, and raised in Canada from the ages of 2 and 4 respectively.

I still have a sister in the US.

So I am NOT, repeat NOT anti American. I do however, admit to being VERY VERY pro Canadian.

I think it's the same for most Europeans. Most of them look back 60 years and say that history is just that. They have grown beyond it.

As for PF. He is the type of person who given a bit of power, would be dangerous.


[Personal comment deleted. - Outsports moderator]

[ June 16, 2004, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: m1 ]

I am so happy someone from outside the US finally blew the lid off the notion that international media is inherently less biased.

I wish some Americans would begin emulating the Dutch...

DO you remember one of the old 007 movies, the one with Roger Moore, that had the big bellied southern sherriff?

That is how most US cops and soldiers are seen.

And having worked in the tourism business when I was in University, I had a glimpse of a microcosm of tourists.

The rudest? American's on organized tours from Chicago (Tauk Tours) and from New Orleans.

The most polite? Organized tours from Japan.

Many times, when a waiter, I would have a tourist snap his fingers at me and call me "boy". (tip to the wise, unless your gonna put me in handcuffs and f**k me till I'm cross-eyed, calling me boy is an insult).

I was one of the waiters who asked for the Japanese tours. While they only tipped 10%, EVERY single one did. They were infinately polite, and a joy to serve. And the fact that I could say thank you in Japanese, made their nights. Most of them were workers who had just retired and had been given a trip to the Canadian Rockies as a reward for a lifetime of good service.

The most irritating tourists? Canadians. God forbid you couldn't get a beer from their province. They would expect you to have it. And they were the lousiest tippers.

You know...

I sorta feel sorry for the Frenchie men... in a way... Imagine, they gotta hit on chics who have more hair on thier lips and under their arms than... ewwww nevermind.

How about the Swiss? They dont bother anyone. Keep track of everyone's money. Make a lil chocolate and keep their mouths shut... Still if backed in the corner.. i bet they'd be able to take over Frenchie land in about 3 days, on bobsleds.

When really was Frenchie worth anything to anyone? 1700? God that must suck. But hey they had a couple of good painters.

This appears to be a particular fixation of the Right Wing, this "oil for food" scandal.

So I do hope it's investigated fully--as fully as the outing of a CIA agent, as fully as the lies about the WMDs, as fully as the Energy Task Force, as fully as the theft of Democratic Senate members' files by the GOP staffers, as fully as the transfer of military funds for Afghanistan for this war in Iraq, etc. We know Vladimir Putin is corrupt. We know Jacques Chirac is corrupt. We know Saddam Hussein, who was aided and abetted by both, as well as Reagan and George H. W. Bush, is a monster. My question is, since the US financially and organizationally dominates the UN and imposed the sanctions upon Saddam, didn't the recent US ambassadors to the UN know about this "oil for food" scandal at all? Or were they in the dark? And if so, why?

Speaking of which, what does the "oil-for-food" scandal have to do with the "un-enlightened" European hooligans that MIB was trashing?

Who knows where the world would be without America? But there'd be no America without Great Britain, which founded the original U.S. colonies or took over some (like New York), or France, which helped America win the war against Great Britain! Where would the world be without Great Britain or France? Or Roman Empire? Or Democratic Athens? Or Code of Hammurabi? Or the Pharoahs? Or....

I was just reading this in my monthly "Dateline: World Jewry" newsletter from the World Jewish Congress today:

"There has been a major rise in anti-Semitic attacks on Jews in the Netherlands, with incidents more than doubling over the course of one year.
According to to reports by police and other organizations, the incidents included a bomb threat and attacks on property and people."

Regarding Canada:
"There was a 27% increase of anti-Semitic incidents in 2003 over the previous year in Canada, according to a recent report.
There were more than 500 incidents directed against Jews in 2003, the vast majority of which included harassment while some 30% involved vandalism and violence."

France:
"Cemeteries throughout France are being desecrated with swastikas and anti-Semitic graffiti including "Death to Jews" and "Jews to the gas chamber."
"[The] Lyon Synagogue was once a beautiful, thriving shul. But after terrorists rammed cars into its walls and set afire inside, it is barely a shell."
...incidentally, I have kept the pictures of the Lyon Synagogue and a French Jewish cemetery (courtesy of Reuters) to remind me that hatred is as prevalent as ever.

Regarding racism and intolerance, I know that the United States is far from perfect, and we definitely need to continuously take a look at ourselves. However, based on what I read, other nations should probably be doing the same.

I wish i was part of the "I hate America" crowd.

That has to be so great to get up each morning knowing that you despise the place you live. Making money, having a high standard of living, carpetbagging off the system you HATE so much.

Where you can go out and listen to Kerry's Skank talk about the env. before she hops into one of her SUV's and drives away to her 10 mil estate.

Knowing that you'd much rather be standing in line for the cheese handout from the govt, even toilet paper. Maybe a potato once a week.

Such a horrible life to live.

The american haters would rather sit in a place under the big tower.. talk about the glory days of 1700 and plug your nose as some hot chic with more hair on her lip and legs than you walks by... NIIIIICE. Or fondly reflect on how your country has been the doormat for german army every few years....

But hey, at least they get a few months of vacation each year.

Little Filly...disagreeing with you is not "American hating". Please offer evidence of "American hating" on this thread...or shut the hell up. :mad: I am pissed off now!!!! Only a communist would demand that everyone agree with him or be called a traitor. Is that what you are? A communist?

My question was...where would we be TODAY without the United States? Not how we got here but where would the world be TODAY. I believe it would be complete and utter chaos...Armageddon. Why do you think the United States is enemy number 1. If you get rid of us who will protect the rest of the world.

speaking german or praying on a towel to allah.

Yes I also agree with that the WMD fiasco was not good for this country....but Sadamm did at one time have chemical weapons...he used them on his own people. Furthermore, had Bush fought harder for the people of Iraq need to free and not live under this monster anymore, rather than the WMDs...the war probably would have had more support (except of course from France, Germany and Russia who were sucking the oil well dry over there). As for the Iraqi people...they don't want to be occupied but they also don't want the U.S. to leave. They have more than they ever did under the Sadamm Regim...it's the Terroists, Iran and Syria who don't want us there and thats who is fighting us. A democracy in Iraq would ultimately destroy the Iran and Syria governments.

Chemical weapons given to him by...the U.S. after a visit there by Donald Rumsfeld where Donald shook Saddam's hands. That was all more than 15 years ago...no chemical weapons used since then. I wonder why?

we are so fixated on WMDs...the guy was a threat to the entire world and the U.S....for 12 years he would not let inspectors in, he killed his own people, him and his sons would rape women, kill anyone who disagreed with him...a lot of people in Iraq did not have electicity or running water while he lived the life of a king...and on and on it goes. Once again the people we are fighting over there are terroists, not Iraqi people who don't want us there. The terroists do not want a democracy in the middle east...plain and simple.

You mean the computer glitch that resulted in the release of files? That's right, FT. It wasn't a theft at all. It was a computer glitch that allowed files of both Democrats and Republicans to become public for a time on the computers. Never let the facts get in the way, of course.

The real reason why you and the Left bring this story up is because it reveals how racist and bigoted--and hypocritical, as usual--the Democrats are when dealing with judicial nominees. They're upset their despicable tactics became public, so they try to spin what has been confirmed as a computer glitch into some big scandal, which is the only way they can cover up their own disgusting tactics.

And who are the people wrongly-arrested by the "coalition of the willing" and in the prisons? Oh, yes, terrorists.

You know...

Thats the problem we have here in America also... I mean 98% of the folks here in our jails say they are innocent.. damn govt.

Where would the world be without the US?

Europe would be under a Nazi state, and I include England in that.

South East Asis, including large parts of what was called Manchuria, would be part of a Japanese State.

North America, the Canadian and American parts at least, would be 1 country, independant from England.

Africa would be very similar to today.

Russia would exist. The Soviet Union would not.


But I ask this, what kind of US?

The kind of country that opened it's borders to millions of immigrants, and was the shining door of democracy and freedom? The US that, as the statue of Liberty said, give me your tired, huddled masses. Most of you on this board can trace your ancestry back to immigrants in the past 150 years, who came to your country to be free. To escape tyranny, hatred, and prejudice.

Or the US of the present day. A country that has appointed itself ruler of the world, and has a few power made people insisting on re-drawing economic borders to enrich a few with total disregard to the fundamental rights of man.

The former America is the one the world has loved for over 200 years.

The latter is what the world sees now. Whether their perception is right or wrong, that is what they see America to be.

And they hate it.

From a side-note to the DNA studies on death row convicts that ended up freeing some 100 men: they later found out that the police records of about 30 of those men showed that they had "confessed" to the crime.

So, I would imagine, some part of that 98% have a valid point.

and they hate it Big thank yous go out to the chimp man for that. :mad:

I bet Bobby78751 also feels we should not have gone to war in Afghanistan.

I could be wrong, but the chest-thumping "where would the world be without the U.S.?" types are generally losers who have to bray about achievements that they personally had no involvement with in an attempt to make their ordinary existence more meaningful. I've been guilty of this in the past.

[ May 11, 2004, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: TomFord ]

"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." --Hermann Goering

Yes, that quote was from Goering, the Nazi propoganda chief. Yet it could almost be applied to what has occurred in this country over the past year or two. People who have disagreed with the war in Iraq or the Bush administration's actions have been slammed for not being patriotic enough or making us look weak to our "enemies".

And I think this is just part of a bigger problem in our nation today, touched on by Philly suggesting that some people on here "hate" America. No, that's not the case, you can criticize something and still love it. To me, being honest, and if need be, critical about something (ie: the United States) shows that you do care and realize that it can be made better. We cannot just blindly believe that the USA is the best in everything or that all of our systems are perfect. The slogan "America, love it or leave it" is probably the worst slogan ever. I think if you truly love something, you will strive to make it better by pointing out the weaknesses and shortcomings. It often takes a stronger, more intelligent person to be forthright. As a result, I will criticize capitalism, because even though it is the economic system of this country, its not always moral. I will criticize our democracy, because its not always fair. And I will criticize our government because its not always honest. But it doesn't mean that I hate America, it just means that I believe we can improve on what we have.

Please stop repeating RNC talking points, okay? Israel is a democracy. Lebanon is also a democracy. The most anti-democratic nation over there is the US's dear friend: Saudi Arabia. Hell, even the Iranians elect a president--though the fanatical mullahs don't allow him to do anything.

Does Saudi Arabia want democracy, in Israel, Lebanon, Iraq, or anywhere else? Why is Saudi Arabia teaching its children to hate us? Why is Saudi Arabia underwriting extremist anti-American schools all over the globe? Is Saudi Arabia a terrorist state?

The US is fighting both non-Iraqi terrorists AND Iraqis who do not want us there. Not just the one, but both. This is obvious from any close reading of the reports from Fallujah, Najaf, Kut, Basra. There are Sunnis and Shias who do not want us there. There are foreign terrorists who do not want us there. There are Zarqawi and his Al Qaeda wannabe band, who don't want us there and don't want Iraq even to resort to Saddam's rule--Osama bin Laden couldn't stand Saddam, even though he was throwing up mosques everywhere. He ran a secular dictatorship.

The United States is a gift to the world, but we do not need to make ourselves a burden by engaging in wars that are unnecessary. The war in Afghanistan was a necessary, just war. We're still fighting it. Why? Because instead of devoting the troops and resources to rooting out Taliban and capturing Osama bin Laden, W was already fomenting this war in Iraq. Don't believe me: there are numerous former W officials, as well as current ones, who would testify to this under oath. Even W has admitted he diverted money from Afghanistan to plan for this Iraq fiasco. I know people don't want to hear ANY criticism of this man or his war, but come on! When is reality going to set in? It's a mess, a total mess. It reflects NOT on the United States, but on the current leadership, who are determined to destroy us in their aim to live out their extremist fantasies.

[ May 11, 2004, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

First of all, the US has NOT appointed itself "ruler" of the entire world. Some misguided leaders and unelected officials and fanatics have done this. Please do not confuse the two--we don't live in a dictatorship, so there is a difference.

Second, excuse me for exploding your reverie, but the world has not "loved" the United States for "over" 200 years. The USA has been engaged in battles with other nations since its founding. It has battled at various times England, France, Spain, Canada, Mexico, Germany, Italy, Bulgaria, Romania, Russia, China, Japan, Cambodia, Vietnam, and Laos, among others. It has even battled itself in the worst war ever on American soil. Many nations admire the US and our successful experiment with democracy, the oldest continuous example in the world, but they have also criticized numerous problems both within and outside this country, not least the failure to provide equality to millions of people born in this country, and laws set up against the Constitution to deny those very people their God-given and Constitutional rights.

I love the United States of America. It is my native country, and I'm proud and glad to be an American. That does not mean that I unequivocally love every aspect of my country's history or its present, or the occupant of the White House (Democrat or Republican), or assume that I and others cannot make it a better country. Millions of people do and will keep coming to the U.S. for a range of reasons, and I just hope that we can stay true to our ideals, rather than surrendering to people who want a corporate state, or a fundamentalist state, or a state that does not enshrine and value the very things--Constitutionally guaranteed individual rights, equality and liberty, free speech and the freedom to dissent, etc.--that separate us from other countries on this earth.

[ May 11, 2004, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]