So now Hiroshima shouldn't have happened, eh? Bummer. The Japanese National Anthem is probably more difficult to learn, and I like our flag much better. Without Hiroshima--and Nagasaki for that matter--we probably would've been living under their rule.

Why do i have that darned "All in the Family" song going through my head...

CASTRO #1!!!!

Every military history evaluation of the WWII endgame seems to agree that the fall of Japan was inevitable after a certain point of the war. The reason for dropping atomic bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima was to hasten that end because an island to island fight for mainland Japan was projected to cost thousands of additional american lives and hundreds of thousands of additional Japanes lives, including civilians. The atomic bombs were seen as the lesser of two evils, not as the only option to win the war.

Amen, jqueer.....MIB, you can not be serious about us being taken over by the Japanese had we not won the war.

We will never know now, will we, blue? wink

Rod Dreher, a columnist of the Dallas Morning News who admits he has turned against the war, in a television interview said Tuesday night: "People respect her right to protest, but the more she opened her mouth the more she revealed herself to be a radical kook....The anti-war movement really did itself a disservice by having her position herself as the face of their movement."

[ August 23, 2005, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: MIB ]

[quote]MIB:
[QUOTE]The speech wasn't a news story per se; rather, the speech was broadcast on the news shows. I can't remember if the FOX one was Britt Hume's or Bill O'Reilly's. The MSNBC one was Scarborough's, I think. I don't remember. I was flipping around the news channels as I always do--CNN, FOX, and MSNBC--and came across the same footage, that of April 27, 2005. Behind Sheehan was the edge of some Leftist poster. So don't call this alleged. It actually happened, your physically not viewing it notwithstanding.[/quote]Prove it. None of your usual vagueness and lack of facts. Prove it.

And keep in mind, if the cowardly sack of crap we have as president and his administration hadn't lied and dissembled the nation into this war, and if they hadn't screwed up the planning for it and for the aftermath of the initial capture of Baghdad beyond his "Mission Accomplished" stunt, if they'd actually put enough troops on the ground and not run this the way they've run everything else, with total incompetence, Casey Sheehan and 1,863 US soldiers would very likely be alive today and Iraq wouldn't be turning into a f*cking theocracy under Iranian influence!

MIB, sorry to hear about your first cousin and other loved ones that you lost. Why then, oh why, can't you have a shread of compassion for a mother who lost her son? If you can't, then you must have a heart of stone. Following your line of "logic", then you must be a nutjob for even bringing up the fact that you have lost loved ones. Your silliness amazes me. Do you carry this baggage and lunacy into the courtroom? If so, please let me know which courtroom you rule from...we'd love to know where it is. To see you on the bench would be most comical and entertaining.

Hey Fantomas, gotta love that Doom-crat MoonBat anger that drives your last rant on MIB.

Dude, you seriously need some anger management counseling --fast. Honest, you need help. Or you could just grab a citizenship app for Canada where unthinking, indiscriminate political thoughts are a hallmark of citizenship.

Once again for the record (big sigh, it's so tedious), your President didn't steal the election in 2000, he didn't lie to "get us into war", Kerry didn't win in 2004, a military plan rarely survives the first day of action, and we had and have enough troops on the ground... wait, wait, "not enough troops"? Are you still harboring the MoonBatLeft's imagined concerns about not enough troops on the ground led to the taking of art treasures from Iraqi museums? or the death of animals at the National Zoo?

And drop the fake concern about our troops --it's transparent as the grin on WeScream4HowieDean or the motivations of Slick Willy in hiring office interns. You don't care about the troops being alive or lost lives; like Cindy-Am-I-On-Yet-Sheehan, they're a convinent prop for your latest political spewfest. "Prop" as in actor's tool.

I've been wondering, is Fantomas really a comic book character of arch-criminal and anti-hero status? Some expert wrote "Fantomas --a figure of unmotivated evil, moral transgression and diabolical perversity-- exerted a powerful fascination for French avante-garde painters and poets for 3 decades...." Dude, you've been punk'd. Ouch. And they're French, too? Have you no honor, man? Gheez.

Actually, rather than waste more than two sentences on the projecting, authoritarian-loving little Mimi, I'll let him sit and stew. Get help, Mimi--you have to pass the psychological tests before you can sign and fight in the Islamic Republic of Iraq, you know.

[ August 24, 2005, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

Once again, W said "September 11" five times in a speech on Iraq the other day, relying on his favorite lie... The constitutional farce continues... and many times 1800 Iraqi civilians are dead.

The myth of the 'necessity' of Hiroshima for a Japanese surrender


Even EISENHOWER suspected the A-bombings were unnecessary, but you know what a pacifist quisling he was...

Oh, just shut the heck up already. I deleted it from my TIVO already, as I recorded the latter showing to get her quotes verbatim. The fact remains that she said this at the 4-27-05 rally, and you just can't handle this. It obviously doesn't sit well with your otherwise glorification of this nutty woman.

The funny thing about my original posting of her rally was that I was thinking that fantomas and a couple other folks would probably claim it never happened, that I was making it up, or that I had put that on the TV myself. I can't help but think this because they wouldn't recognize factual reality if it came up and hit them in the face. These are the same people who, for example, if I told them FOX News reported today that Tropical Storm Katrina formed, they'd claim it wasn't true solely because FOX News reported it (FYI: She did form today, and I got that from TWC.)

[ August 24, 2005, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: MIB ]

Look, miller. I have compassion for her losing her son. I've even added him to my prayers. This does not give her carte blanche to become a nutjob. Just because she has lost a son does not mean she's immune from being exploited by the Left and from spouting off ridiculous comments.

Just this morning, I heard clips of her on Chris Matthews's show, when she said that we should leave Afghanistan because we "lost" there. She also said Bush was wrong for "invading Afghanistan because they never attacked us...it was bin Laden and not Afghanistan who attacked us...Bush killed all those innocent people in Afghanistan."

The more she talks the more intelligent people realize this woman long ago lost it.

Sometimes humans DO lose it when something tragic occurs. Maybe she has become a tool of the left, but maybe she isn't thinking too clearly these days while she deals with her grief. I am glad to hear you are praying for her. She really needs those prayers. She is obviously hurting.

Who in the hell do you think you are? YOU "shut the heck up." "Deleted it" from your TIVO--how convenient, and as always, not a fact to stand in the way of your "truths."

Anyways, you could go join the anti-Sheehan protesters down in Crawford. According to the photos published on the right-wing National Review Online there don't seem to be many participants.

I'll avoid the obvious response to that and say that he thinks he is an intelligent, rational, persuasive advocate for his point of view. He thinks he is a much maligned, undeservedly so, martyr of the left. He thinks he's releveant. Unfortunately, he is in error.

Judge Judy?

You know who recently reported that Iraq is now a better training ground for terrorists than Afghanistan ever was?

The CIA.

Wow Fantomas, comic book mentality may work for literary superheroes like your cypher, but it doesn't pass for political thought or informed opinion.

I know, it's tough when the tide is against you and your "team" on the political field keeps losing... but have heart. Maybe when the stars realign, the advocacy groups and positions you favor will ascend. Until then, enjoy the marginalized edges of political impotence 'cause you're so far out of the mainstream, you are no longer relevant.

And when are you heading to Crawford to help out the anti-war, anti-Bush, hate-America protesters?

MIB-- you got it right man. Way to go. Actually. I'm surprised that Fantomas or JQueer haven't linked the deflating support of Mrs Sheehan to Karl Rove. Sheehan is a pawn of the LibLeft and now they're stuck with an uncontrollable, spinning, outrageous mouth. Bill Maher or John Stewart are probably ready to offer her a TV show.

Well, considering someone else here also confirmed her comments at the rally in April, you have no leg on which to stand. (Never mind that I'm sure it's easily "findable" on the Net somewhere. Amazing you are. The rally was shown on TV. Her diatribe was all over the Internet. The Boston Globe even wrote about it. Yet fantomas still says it didn't happen. Exactly what planet are you on? You need to get back to the institute before they realize you're missing. Your refusal to accept reality I have never seen before in a normal person.)

You just can't accept her wacko rally speech can you? It really hurts to find out she actually said such ridiculous things, doesn't it? Face it. The rally happened, and she DID say this crap.

Oh, and I'll remember next time to save all my TIVO'd programs, burn them to DVD, and send them to you for the official fantomas confirmation (your sanctimonious condescension notwithstanding). I didn't know everything that actually happens in the world must be personally witnessed by you to be real. Regardless, I won't hold my breath waiting for your apology--wouldn't want to start what would have to be a pattern.

[ August 25, 2005, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: MIB ]

A net link would be sufficient, "judge."

I'll be in Crawford when you get off your tuches and hit those mean streets of the Islamic Republic of Iraq. Squared? Squared.

Considering several others here have found many references to this rally, I'm sure you can do the same as well.

Fantomas, nice try with the whole ChickenHawk thing super anti-hero cartoon character but it's been discredited here and elsewhere too many times to be worthy of further response.

I think MIB has it right: you can't handle reality, facts, the truth, or a lost cause. Head on out to the pasture dude, 'cause your 30 seconds of fame was over an hour ago.

Hey "dude," I'm not sure what "fame" you're talking about, but since you were raving about reenlistment and recruitment on another thread, I urge you to take your zealous...tuches...over to the nearest military enlistment office. Seriously. Put your bottom where your jingoistic mouth is, right on the boot of a drill sergeant, and I don't mean a fako like Jeffjim Gannonguckert. Not calling you a chickenhawk or anything, just telling you that if you are so gung ho, then sign those papers and go. Though he thinks you're "intrinsically disordered" and "evil," you can recruit for pope Nazikraft while you're over there. (You know, that Benedictine motto is really coming true in "Old Europe," so why not try the Middle East?) See how that goes over with the Islamicists who have seized control of the constitution-writing process and the country. Iraq, that is--just like Iran. See ya!

[ August 25, 2005, 11:16 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

Fantomas, I really don't think the military would be interested in MiMatt. This may be a guess, but judging by his handle, I think he might be 38 years old...far too crusty and bitter to effectively serve his country. Worry not, he's doing his country proud by continuing to spew hatred via the internet. That's a sure way to bring everyone together. May I be the first to say I find the level of compassion among Republicans lower than Bush's approval ratings. Lower than a pregnant ant. Sorry Repubs, you've been conned by your "leader", and now it's come to bite you in the ass, with interest due. Cindy is not going away, and this issue is gaining momentum like a run-away train, going downhill. If Bush were smart, (and I realize that statement is an oxymoron), he would have met with this woman from the get-go. Instead, he let it fester while he maintained his tough-guy cowboy image. Now the whole party is paying the price. Hey, at least I can hold my head high and proudly say that I didn't vote for him.

Fantomas... dude, you gotta to learn to read, comprehend, process, understand what is written. Yeow, we can't be expected to spoon feed ya everything and also provide you with coloring books and squeaky toys to underscore the policy points? Unless, of course, you have a card indicating you're part of the Senate DOOM-ocrat caucus in DC... then that would explain the "facts-challenged" nature of your questions and the continual re-use of the much discredited "chickenhawk" slur.

Millerbeach, our President knows what he's doing on this point --your advice to have him meet with the grieving publicity hound who's been co-opted by the MoonBat LibLefties is disingenious, at best... that's what the anti-American, anti-war left would love.

For the record, your poster girl of the anti-war movement is losing support as quickly as a coon dog's drool down a back porch board. She's toast and even the MSM has had its fill, the blip is being lost on the radar screen.

MoveOn and Michael-fat-ass-Moore are pounding the pavement looking for the next PR tool to hijack. Wait, they've found it: maimed soldiers! It's brillant! Grab a few lesbians, hang out at Walter Reed, tie the maimed to Halliburton. Brillant!

Mima, are you hallucinating things? What are you on? I specifically said I wasn't calling you a \"chickenhawk.\" I just asked you why, since you are raving on like a loon about how great recruiting is going and so on (and yet you can't even comprehend the text of what you've cited, which talks about RE-enlistment vs. recruiting), that you go over and fight yourself. Seriously. There's nothing \"fact-challenged\" about my questions. Pope Nazikraft called homosexual acts \"intrinsically disordered\" in his pastoral letter \"On the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons,\" a 1986 document he and the Roman Catholic Church stand by. You have YET to answer my questions about this. These are the \"facts,\" and your propagandistic attempts to twist them into your alternate reality aren't going to change that. I pity you, but also really wish that since you seriously believe that Iraq is in such great shape, you sign right up and go over there.

From the New Advent Roman Catholic Website, On the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons, 1986, written by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect of the Congregation of the Faith
Just the facts, Mima. Now once again, do you agree with Ratzinger's assessment that your homosexual activity is "immoral" and that the condiition of homosexuality is "intrinsically disordered," and that violence against homosexual people is a result of the idea that homosexuality is not "disordered," which blames gays and lesbians when we're attacked?

Meanwhile, your beloved W is on the phone cajoling a fanatical IRAQI cleric, Hakim, who FOUGHT ON THE IRANIAN SIDE in the Iran-Iraq War (in which W's daddy, George HW Bush, openly supported Saddam Hussein, yet also funneled weapons to the anti-American fundamentalist clerics), to change his tune and let the Sunnis have some say. Hakim, however, is saying he and Shiite radicals the power and are going to create an Islamic state. Are you claiming these aren't facts either? If so, then go over there and defend these policies. That's not calling you a "chickenhawk," which I realize you're extremely sensitive about, and rightly so, but inviting you to make the rose-colored rhetoric and propaganda you totally believe in reality. You'll have to deal with deranged Shiites, Sunnis, Zarqawi, the resistant Kurds, etc., but if there's anyone who can make it happen, it's Mimatt!

[ August 26, 2005, 07:51 AM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

Yeow, dude, now look who's ranting the spew of hate? Catholic bashing, Bush Hating, anti-American, and now it's damned-if-he-does/damned-if-he-doesn't dilemma you've crafted for OUR President. And you did that all in one post!

You win the WeScream4HowieDean team decoder ring for this week. But you have to go pick it up from Cindy MoonBat in Crawford.

Try sticking to super heroes, comic books, and fantasy villans --you do a better job of that than when you stray into reality.

See, you aren't heading over to Iraq because it's clear, you are dying to play DODGE BALL! Dodge every question or challenge with slurs, attacks and nonsense. And quoting the pope on a document he wrote that ATTACKS YOU isn't Catholic bashing, Mima. Is it that painful to read his words and address my questions? Unfortunately, Ratzinger and al-Hakim aren't just "comic book" characters....

[ August 26, 2005, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

Isn't it obvious that debating MiniMatt is a waste of time? Just tell him what I did: "Go crawl back inside Karl Rove's ass from whence you were accidentally expelled the last time he hit the men's room."

In fact, I think this should be the standard reply to every one of his posts in every thread, by everyone else.

JiP, you're right. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. Rather than just tossing out recollections of what the pope, in his Cardinal mode, said, I quoted them for Mima and asked him the question I have again and again. And his response was to call me "anti-Catholic," utterly dodging the issue at hand. I mean, do you agree with Ratzinger that you're "intrinsically disordered," that your actions constitute a "moral evil," that denying these hateful assertions may justify people attacking and killing you? I think you or I or most of the people on this board, including many devout Roman Catholics, could answer without hesitation.

A more basic question is: why is this middle-aged woman from California so getting under the skin of the GOP and Freepers? If they truly believe that their cause is noble and the right one, and if they truly believe in our democratic republic and our constitutional rights to dissent, then they shouldn't worry about Cindy Sheehan, should they? Yet this woman has totally unhinged some of them to the point that they are smearing her as if they were dealing with a real threat, like Iran's ultrarightist president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. He is pursuing the right to make nukes and to manipulate Iraq (in fact, the US has repeatedly said Iran is doing this), yet the right-wing is obsessed by this mother and the small band of folks thronged around her. The unbalanced attention on her as opposed to the real threats, like the disastrous situation on the ground in Iraq, point out how afraid and worried W's supporters really are.

JiPster, I see you've adopted your ol' game plan: discount anyone who dares offer a contrarian opinion to your neat little world of lost-gay Left views. It's cool with me; just don't comment. And when you cast about the troll moniker --look in the mirror guy. You got it nailed.

Fantomas, I love the "I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt"... LOL. You're so cute you missed your true calling.

Catholic-bashing, Bush-hating, Blame-America-1'ster label fits you like a deerskin glove. You are a Catholic basher --and we've had those in America for a long time. Problem is, that by being an intolerant bigot you fail our gay brothers because all of us have to fight against the same type of bigotry that drives your hate... and you don't even recognize it, dude. Now there's something you should reflect on rather than dreamscape fantasies about comic book styled anti-heroes or archvillans.

CNN has a poll underway here at IPPS and we've logged 4,100 telephone surveys of likely 2006 voters... guess what: the general public support for Cindy is eroding --we had it at a peak of 31% last Saturday and it's now at 17%. I guess the truth from the Right is having some effect on the MSM's lovefest in Crawford.

You guys picked the wrong horse, the wrong stream to cross, at the wrong time. The anti-war PR campaign will die with Cindy's tent being folded up. Poof.

But you'll remain a bigot, Fantomas. It's a shame we can't 3 snaps you into a PC course at a major university. At least there you could confront your bigotry with confidence.

It is also important to remember that, while Ms. Sheehan has become the rallying point for those of us who are hoping to inject some reality into the discussion of Bush's debacle in Iraq, she is not the sum total of the anti-war movement, and does not speak for all of us. As I personally have stated before, I don't know if pulling the troops out now is the right idea, but we will get nowhere in Iraq until the powers that be understand the huge miscalculations and series of errors that have left us in a no-win situtation.

Unfortunately, the administration seems oblivious to the increasingly idiotic image it is projecting, as Bush and Cheney try to rally the cause with constant references to 9/11. Of course, the fact that the Iraq war had NOTHING to do with 9/11 is conveniently forgotten by Bush and his cronies. Thankfully, as the plunging approval numbers finally show, the country is waking up. Ms. Sheehan was simply at the right place and the right time to become a focus of frustration over the administrations' actions.

CPT, Ms. Sheehan has said over and over that she speaks only for herself. That is why the pro-war "Cindy doesn't speak for me" rallies are so absurd. She never claimed to!
I agree, though, that it is the case of right place, right time. A time when a majority now say it was a "mistake" to go to war, when every reason has been shown to be wrong, when after being told the occupation would be weeks, not months or years we are now hearing of a decade or more. And everyone from generals to cabinet members who said at the time that this would not be a cakewalk got fired, only to be proven right. The fact that Bush has responded by breaking the presidential record for time on vacation really does not sit well with a lot of Americans (let alone rest of the world). Even those without clearly thought out political views can feel uncomfortable when, with so much going wrong, he says he needs to have a balanced life so he can continue to make good decisions.

The protest now has gone way beyond one woman, which answers your question as to why she excites such foaming at the mouth; there are camps elsewhere and over 1600 vigils on the same day in cities and towns nationwide. Cindy Sheehan's protest reminds me of the veterans sit-in in D.C. back in 1971. Because of who they were, and because it was the right time for such a stand, they had an impact far beyond just their numbers.

In all honesty, Matt, I do not believe fantomas is a bigot as you say he is. I'll reserve judgment as to whether he's anti-Catholic, but just because someone criticizes the Church to which I belong does not automatically confer on them the label of anti-Catholic.

I criticize many entities, but this doesn't necessarily mean I should put the prefix "anti" in front of that entity which I criticize.

Oh God, this is just sad when MIB is actually the voice of reason. Tells a lot about MiMatt. Your trolling even annoys the judge.

Horn dog, no it just tells us that MIB isn't offended by bigotry. How can anyone who calls the Pope a Nazi not be a bigot? The hate spigot is wide open for Fantomas, the Catholic bigot. Hardly "criticism". It's hate speech.

A spade is a spade, it ain't no shovel.

Well, MIB, I'll be damned, that was practically fair and reasonable. Careful, you don't want to confuse us about your "pre-judge(s)", I mean, prejudices.

As both a former Catholic and a college graduate, I can certainly understand that it may be inappropriate to call Mr. Ratzinger a "Nazi." After all, he was very young when he participated in the German atrocities, however peripherally, in WWII. I don't believe he was ever an active member of the SS, for instance, just a regular German soldier who followed orders, and badly at that.

However, you can hardly refer to anti-Catholic bigotry when someone attacks the current chief of state of Vatican City. He is, after all, simply one man, and not representative of all Catholics. Had fantomas called all priests child molesters, that might be an example of bigotry, but insulting one person for their past behavior is not bigoted, it is reacting to the facts.

[ August 26, 2005, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: memphistn ]

What is wrong with being anti-Catholic? I am strongly anti-Catholic for the following reasons: 1. Catholicism is a bigoted ideology that teaches that being queer is an intrinsic moral evil. 2. Catholic leaders are active in this country and others in the political effort to deny queer people equality. I find Catholicism as despicable as the beliefs of the Christians of the KKK. I'm also anti-Nazi.

If you disagree with me, please tell how I'm wrong about points 1 and 2. If you secretly agree with me but lack the courage to admit it, please proceed with the ad hominem attacks.

P.S. Cindy Sheehan has a right to voice her opinions. I hope that her efforts mark the beginning of the end of this disaster in the Middle East.

Thank you.

The irony that MiMatt would accuse you of bigotry is mind boggling, when taken into context of whom Matt has modeled his political views.



[ August 26, 2005, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: AU Tiger in ATL ]

AU, that's equally as offensive. You're doing exactly what you are accusing him of doing.

Nutjob Cindy Sheahan's in the news again. I wonder what the victims of Katrina think of her now in light of her latest comments.

Celebrity anti-war protester, fresh off inking a lucrative deal with Speaker's Bureau, has demanded at the Huffington Post and Michael Moore's web site that the United States military must immediately leave "occupied" New Orleans.

"I don't care if a human being is black, brown, white, yellow or pink. I donÕt care if a human being is Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, or pagan. I don't care what flag a person salutes: if a human being is hungry, then it is up to another human being to feed him/her. George Bush needs to stop talking, admit the mistakes of his all around failed administration, pull our troops out of occupied New Orleans, and excuse his self from power. The only way America will become more secure is if we have a new administration that cares about Americans even if they don't fall into the top two percent of the wealthiest."

What's so nutty about that? It makes total sense to me, unlike much of what this administration has done during hurricane Katrina or the Iraq war.

Since Ms. Sheehan is Christian (Catholic) could be she read her own bible.

I'll tell you: if it wasn't for the "occupying" military in New Orleans, the place would be FAR worse than it is now, and those thousands saved by the military wouldn't have been saved. To demand that the military leave N.O. because they're "occupying" the city is just plain nutty.

But they aren't or weren't getting fed, no water, no plumbing. You would get kind of nutty too if life's necessities were denied you. MIB, how long have you ever gone without water or without food? Let me wait while you count to zero days.