While this is not yet final, and of course may still change, it looks about 95% a done deal.
We were informed recently that Pete Rose is to be fully reinstated this year by Commissioner Bud Selig. In early December, Rose met with Selig, where Selig promised Rose he would be reinstated. Furthermore, Selig invited Rose to a meeting of MLB Owners later this month, where Selig will announce that he is fully reinstating Rose, permitting him to work in baseball once again.
I am sure some of this will or has been leaked to the public, but more information has been shared with MLB umpires by other sources. Among this information is something that we really believe to be an insult to the game we are charged with protecting (to a certain degree): Selig's public pronouncement that he has called a meeting of living Hall of Famers to seek their opinions and feelings on this was only for appearances sake. In fact, he delayed the meeting anyway, and had made up his mind at least a year or more ago.
He had always intended to reinstate Rose. One source whom I shall not name told us directly that Selig commented that he needed to do this "for the good of the game and the fans."
Professionalism precludes me from saying anything further about my Commissioner and his actions, so I will end this here.
[ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: Ump25 ]
Full Version: Pete Rose to be Reinstated
If Selig made up his mind a year ago, why didn't he do it then? And is Rose going to at least clearly admit his guilt?
Joe, we were told that Rose agreed at the December meeting to admit his guilt. Exactly how he does this, and to what extent he does this, is not known by us. However, based on other information that has since come to light (numerous audio tapes of Rose and a now dead mafia guy, to whom Rose owed $30,000 and never paid), it is my personal opinion that he should never again be allowed any involvement with professional baseball.
To be fair and consistent, I also feel this way about Shoeless Joe Jackson, about whom similar reinstatement requests have been made.
[ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: Ump25 ]
To be fair and consistent, I also feel this way about Shoeless Joe Jackson, about whom similar reinstatement requests have been made.
[ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: Ump25 ]
I agree with your statements wholeheartedly Ump and I fully understand your inability to disclose more "details" due to the position that you hold protecting the integrity and rights of our National Pasttime....it is incredibly disappointing that the game's Commissioner clearly does not hold the same view that the integrity of the game itself cannot and will not be compromised for ANY individual, regardless of how stellar their on-field performance may have been.
If your statements turn our to be true (and I have no reason to doubt you, Ump) this decision is purely for P.R. purposes and represents the WORST compromise of ethics in the history of professional sports in our country -- and that's saying a lot IMHO....I was optimistic for a while that the scheduled "meeting" later this month of all living Hall of Famers would actually carry some weight, particularly following the comments made by Bob Feller that he would demand his plaque be removed from Cooperstown if Rose is reinstated....let's only hope that a number of Hall of Famers (whose ethical conduct off the field EQUALLED their on-field exploits) will demonstate their opposition to Selig's decision in a loud and clear manner!....geez, is there anything else Selig can do to harm the game any more than he already has with his dozens of unconscionable actions?
[ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: gamecock ]
If your statements turn our to be true (and I have no reason to doubt you, Ump) this decision is purely for P.R. purposes and represents the WORST compromise of ethics in the history of professional sports in our country -- and that's saying a lot IMHO....I was optimistic for a while that the scheduled "meeting" later this month of all living Hall of Famers would actually carry some weight, particularly following the comments made by Bob Feller that he would demand his plaque be removed from Cooperstown if Rose is reinstated....let's only hope that a number of Hall of Famers (whose ethical conduct off the field EQUALLED their on-field exploits) will demonstate their opposition to Selig's decision in a loud and clear manner!....geez, is there anything else Selig can do to harm the game any more than he already has with his dozens of unconscionable actions?
[ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: gamecock ]
It may sound a bit corny saying this, gamecock; hell, I might even come across as naive. Nevertheless, I must admit something: I hold my position in Baseball as something quite special. Perhaps I wouldn't feel like this that much if I was in the game 20 years or more; perhaps I'd feel more this way--I don't know.
My point is that I believe that along with my peers, I have been given the keys to a sacred public trust, one which I have been empowered to protect at all costs. The integrity of Baseball is more important than my single job, than myself. I am not nor ever should be above the Game itself; rather, I am one who must always strive to maintain its integrity, its charm, its allure, etc.
It is very difficult to do this when those who run it cannot understand its place in our nation's fabric. When Baseball's leaders care more about their behinds than the Game they, too, are charged with shepherding, the Game has then been severely damaged, its credibility perhaps destroyed.
I am a lover of many sports in this country, but I will go to my grave believing Baseball stands alone at the top as a sport so unique and so powerful, and so meaningful. It has remarkably survived so many attempts to tarnish it or even destroy it, but can it survive these forever?
Baseball's blood is, when it comes down to it, its fans. It survives because of its fans, who are charmed by its magic and its allure and its place in American history. Oftentimes, it survives in spite of its leadership and rarely because of it.
How can I take seriously the nature of my job when Baseball's leader indirectly tells me it does not matter by bringing back someone who so callously and uncaringly attempted to bring down the very game I have dedicated myself to protect?
Sure, I ignore most of what is done by Baseball's leadership, focusing on my job, our union and our contract, etc. This dedication notwithstanding, I cannot help but shake my head and wonder why I do it if others more powerful than me are attempting to undermine the Game.
Perhaps I am being too unforgiving of Rose, Jackson, or others in similar positions. I'd like to think I am not, since I am a very forgiving person (though not forgetful!). I believe in forgiveness and compassion and understanding, but I also believe in having to suffer the consequences of our actions, even if such consequences are permanent or conflict with our personal desires or pleasures.
Perhaps Rose's situation is more difficult to accept because I grew up--somewhat--watching the Big Red Machine, in awe of Pete's accomplishments (as well as his teammates). Now, I have to wonder: Were they all honest? Were they earned? Were they legitimate? Whether they all were or not, the very fact that I--and others--can even wonder this is revealing indeed.
No one individual, not Pete Rose, Bud Selig, Ump25, Bart Giamatti, an avid fan, an Owner--no one--is more important than the Game itself. Sadly, Selig believes his reputation, his image, is just this important.
It is unacceptable; it is despicable. Sigh, but it is typical.
Regardless, I will not cease in my part of ensuring integrity and fairness remain an integral part of the Game. My role can demand nothing less.
My point is that I believe that along with my peers, I have been given the keys to a sacred public trust, one which I have been empowered to protect at all costs. The integrity of Baseball is more important than my single job, than myself. I am not nor ever should be above the Game itself; rather, I am one who must always strive to maintain its integrity, its charm, its allure, etc.
It is very difficult to do this when those who run it cannot understand its place in our nation's fabric. When Baseball's leaders care more about their behinds than the Game they, too, are charged with shepherding, the Game has then been severely damaged, its credibility perhaps destroyed.
I am a lover of many sports in this country, but I will go to my grave believing Baseball stands alone at the top as a sport so unique and so powerful, and so meaningful. It has remarkably survived so many attempts to tarnish it or even destroy it, but can it survive these forever?
Baseball's blood is, when it comes down to it, its fans. It survives because of its fans, who are charmed by its magic and its allure and its place in American history. Oftentimes, it survives in spite of its leadership and rarely because of it.
How can I take seriously the nature of my job when Baseball's leader indirectly tells me it does not matter by bringing back someone who so callously and uncaringly attempted to bring down the very game I have dedicated myself to protect?
Sure, I ignore most of what is done by Baseball's leadership, focusing on my job, our union and our contract, etc. This dedication notwithstanding, I cannot help but shake my head and wonder why I do it if others more powerful than me are attempting to undermine the Game.
Perhaps I am being too unforgiving of Rose, Jackson, or others in similar positions. I'd like to think I am not, since I am a very forgiving person (though not forgetful!). I believe in forgiveness and compassion and understanding, but I also believe in having to suffer the consequences of our actions, even if such consequences are permanent or conflict with our personal desires or pleasures.
Perhaps Rose's situation is more difficult to accept because I grew up--somewhat--watching the Big Red Machine, in awe of Pete's accomplishments (as well as his teammates). Now, I have to wonder: Were they all honest? Were they earned? Were they legitimate? Whether they all were or not, the very fact that I--and others--can even wonder this is revealing indeed.
No one individual, not Pete Rose, Bud Selig, Ump25, Bart Giamatti, an avid fan, an Owner--no one--is more important than the Game itself. Sadly, Selig believes his reputation, his image, is just this important.
It is unacceptable; it is despicable. Sigh, but it is typical.
Regardless, I will not cease in my part of ensuring integrity and fairness remain an integral part of the Game. My role can demand nothing less.
well said! and i couldn't agree more with every word. it will, indeed, be a dark day for baseball if pete rose is reinstated.
but i have a sinking feeling that the casual fan might react very positively, just as selig hopes, so that he will be the hero who righted this "wrong".
you, ump, travel this land far more than most of us. and you constantly have your finger on the pulse of popular opinion, in a way that we can't. how do you think this will play in peoria?
but i have a sinking feeling that the casual fan might react very positively, just as selig hopes, so that he will be the hero who righted this "wrong".
you, ump, travel this land far more than most of us. and you constantly have your finger on the pulse of popular opinion, in a way that we can't. how do you think this will play in peoria?
Though I understand trying to remain sentimental about the game, the baseball of today is not the baseball of our childhood.
It's soul was sold off to George Steinbrenner years ago.
With its history sullied by labor issues and the farce called "how many times can a drug abuser be allowed back into the game" I say "go ahead, let Pete in."
At least he wasn't hopped up on steroids or drugs.
It's soul was sold off to George Steinbrenner years ago.
With its history sullied by labor issues and the farce called "how many times can a drug abuser be allowed back into the game" I say "go ahead, let Pete in."
At least he wasn't hopped up on steroids or drugs.
Sorry Tiger, the drug user comparison is a silly warhorse. How often were Ruth and Mantle, to name two well-known drinkers, hung over during a game?
Drug use doesn't sully the very integrity of the competition the way Rose's sordid bets on baseball do. If Ump is correct that Selig always intended to reinstate Stinky Pete, we can see that the misguided cheers at the Credit Card Whoredom Ceremony at the World Series were meant to grease the wheels for Beelzebud -- now he's only caving to "popular opinion."
Where have you gone, Bart Giamatti?
Drug use doesn't sully the very integrity of the competition the way Rose's sordid bets on baseball do. If Ump is correct that Selig always intended to reinstate Stinky Pete, we can see that the misguided cheers at the Credit Card Whoredom Ceremony at the World Series were meant to grease the wheels for Beelzebud -- now he's only caving to "popular opinion."
Where have you gone, Bart Giamatti?
AU, Bill W. is correct.
Drug use, as abhorrent as it is, is primarily considered a medical problem for the individual. Yes, it can possibly influence the youth of today, and can bring sully characters too close to the game, but as Bill stated quite accurately, it does not threaten the integrity of the game.
I am not here and now going to get into a debate over gambling being a medical problem like drug use. Whether it is or not, it is not the same insofar as its damaging impact upon the game. There is a reason why Rule 21d of the Major League Agreement is the only capital crime in baseball.
Because Baseball's very survival depends so much on keeping insidious outside influence out of it, gambling is a terrible evil that can destroy it more quickly and more easily than anything else. Not even Steinbrenner's antics or the Owners' stupidity has thus far been able to destroy Baseball.
Gambling can, but Rose did not care. Apparently, it seems, neither does Selig.
I will say it here loud and clear, realizing I run the risk of biting the hand that feeds me: Baseball is run by some very bad people. I understand that sounds a bit general, but I shall leave it at that, for it is the truth, and I am not alone among my peers in this belief.
[ January 06, 2003: Message edited by: Ump25 ]
Drug use, as abhorrent as it is, is primarily considered a medical problem for the individual. Yes, it can possibly influence the youth of today, and can bring sully characters too close to the game, but as Bill stated quite accurately, it does not threaten the integrity of the game.
I am not here and now going to get into a debate over gambling being a medical problem like drug use. Whether it is or not, it is not the same insofar as its damaging impact upon the game. There is a reason why Rule 21d of the Major League Agreement is the only capital crime in baseball.
Because Baseball's very survival depends so much on keeping insidious outside influence out of it, gambling is a terrible evil that can destroy it more quickly and more easily than anything else. Not even Steinbrenner's antics or the Owners' stupidity has thus far been able to destroy Baseball.
Gambling can, but Rose did not care. Apparently, it seems, neither does Selig.
I will say it here loud and clear, realizing I run the risk of biting the hand that feeds me: Baseball is run by some very bad people. I understand that sounds a bit general, but I shall leave it at that, for it is the truth, and I am not alone among my peers in this belief.
[ January 06, 2003: Message edited by: Ump25 ]
Baseball will always be America's pasttime. While it has changed considerably behind the scenes due to the ego and greed which drive most big businesses, the game is still the game in all its glory.
There's absolutely no valid reason to reinstate Pete Rose. What he did was wrong, then and now.
There's absolutely no valid reason to reinstate Pete Rose. What he did was wrong, then and now.
Valid or invalid, bryan d., it matters not one iota to Mr. Selig. You see, Selig's sole concern and desire is to have this image where everyone loves him. He is under some mistaken belief that as Commissioner of Baseball, he is held up as some kind of a god in the eye of the public.
Nothing can be further from the truth, and I don't think I have to convince Outsports members of this.
Selig truly is insecure and believes that by reinstating Rose, he will court even greater favor with the fans. I suppose he thinks this will possibly make up for his wonderful decision of stopping the All-Star game, or canceling the World Series, or...
In our WUA union meetings, one opinion is fairly common: Baseball will not improve until and unless two people no longer have anything to do with it. These two people are Bud Selig and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Nothing can be further from the truth, and I don't think I have to convince Outsports members of this.
Selig truly is insecure and believes that by reinstating Rose, he will court even greater favor with the fans. I suppose he thinks this will possibly make up for his wonderful decision of stopping the All-Star game, or canceling the World Series, or...
In our WUA union meetings, one opinion is fairly common: Baseball will not improve until and unless two people no longer have anything to do with it. These two people are Bud Selig and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Wow, what a statement there, Ump. But I can't say that I disagree with either one. Selig's affect on the game over the past several years is enormous, and has helped add fuel to the flame that Steinbrenner apparently feels he needs to "burn" out the competition by spending un-Godly amounts of money.
Reinsdorf is a character, but his influences are not nearly as obvious. Are we in actuality seeing some effects of what he has brought to MLB, without knowing the true source? Is Selig his puppet? I know the White Sox organization has been criticized by many in recent years, dating back to the signing of Albert Belle that helped create the ridiculous salary structure that we have today.
OK, so Selig lets Rose back in the game. Then why not go ahead and reinstate Shoeless Joe as well? He is a sure Hall of Famer as well, and his affect on the game is no worse. This can be debated I guess, because one could argue the Reds didn't throw a World Series. But when you narrow the focus to the fact that Rose and Jackson (with others) both affected the integrity of MLB play, then they are one in the same. We've lived this long without Shoeless Joe in the Hall, who was a legend in his time. Rose will be remembered for his part in the game as the all-time hits leader whether he is in the Hall or not, so why reinstate him?
Reinsdorf is a character, but his influences are not nearly as obvious. Are we in actuality seeing some effects of what he has brought to MLB, without knowing the true source? Is Selig his puppet? I know the White Sox organization has been criticized by many in recent years, dating back to the signing of Albert Belle that helped create the ridiculous salary structure that we have today.
OK, so Selig lets Rose back in the game. Then why not go ahead and reinstate Shoeless Joe as well? He is a sure Hall of Famer as well, and his affect on the game is no worse. This can be debated I guess, because one could argue the Reds didn't throw a World Series. But when you narrow the focus to the fact that Rose and Jackson (with others) both affected the integrity of MLB play, then they are one in the same. We've lived this long without Shoeless Joe in the Hall, who was a legend in his time. Rose will be remembered for his part in the game as the all-time hits leader whether he is in the Hall or not, so why reinstate him?
Disappointing, but not surprising. I mentioned in another post that I thought Selig was playing a PR game following another year where MLB tried to self-destruct. As far as integrity and innocence in baseball, that's been gone for years. For me personally, it dates back to when I was a kid and paid for Rose's autograph back in '79 or '80 at some event in my hometown. It couldn't have been too much money but it sticks in my mind. Yet I still love watching the game.
[quote]Originally posted by MSUBulldog:
Reinsdorf is a character, but his influences are not nearly as obvious. Are we in actuality seeing some effects of what he has brought to MLB, without knowing the true source? Is Selig his puppet? I know the White Sox organization has been criticized by many in recent years, dating back to the signing of Albert Belle that helped create the ridiculous salary structure that we have today.
Selig is, indeed, Mr. Reinsdorf's "puppet," as you put it. Do not think for a minute that Selig orders Reinsdorf around. Yes, as Commissioner, Selig has authority Reinsdorf lacks. However, Selig is Commissioner today mainly because of Reinsdorf. Both individuals have no concern whatsoever for anything but their own egos, trust me. Selig's concern is for his own image, while Reinsdorf's is more for his own wallet, even though his team does not rake in the money as do other teams.
Truthfully, the 1994 World Series was canceled more because of Reinsdorf than because of Selig. Reinsdorf before that season started was heard telling several persons that he was going to make sure the season never completed and would try to make sure the fans blamed the players for it.
[quote]
OK, so Selig lets Rose back in the game. Then why not go ahead and reinstate Shoeless Joe as well? He is a sure Hall of Famer as well, and his affect on the game is no worse. This can be debated I guess, because one could argue the Reds didn't throw a World Series. But when you narrow the focus to the fact that Rose and Jackson (with others) both affected the integrity of MLB play, then they are one in the same. We've lived this long without Shoeless Joe in the Hall, who was a legend in his time. Rose will be remembered for his part in the game as the all-time hits leader whether he is in the Hall or not, so why reinstate him?
If Rose is reinstated, then it is only fair that Shoeless Joe be reinstated as well. IMHO, however, I believe neither person should be reinstated. Selig is not as concerned about Jackson as he is about Rose, and that's because Rose is the one with whom recent and current fans are more familiar. In fact, I'd bet that if a poll was taken about these two players' reinstatement, Rose would be more heavily favored than Jackson. Because of Rose's "popularity," Selig believes that as Commissioner, he will be the Savior by letting Rose back in the game.
Lastly, permit me to say that I am not on some personal vendetta here or some petition drive to deny Rose's reinstatement. That is not my call, so to speak. It is not my decision. I lack the authority to make such decisions. I'm just expressing the sentiment of not only myself but my peers. Heck, you should have heard the comments made on a recent union conference call we had. Suffice it to say there were some interesting remarks.
Reinsdorf is a character, but his influences are not nearly as obvious. Are we in actuality seeing some effects of what he has brought to MLB, without knowing the true source? Is Selig his puppet? I know the White Sox organization has been criticized by many in recent years, dating back to the signing of Albert Belle that helped create the ridiculous salary structure that we have today.
Selig is, indeed, Mr. Reinsdorf's "puppet," as you put it. Do not think for a minute that Selig orders Reinsdorf around. Yes, as Commissioner, Selig has authority Reinsdorf lacks. However, Selig is Commissioner today mainly because of Reinsdorf. Both individuals have no concern whatsoever for anything but their own egos, trust me. Selig's concern is for his own image, while Reinsdorf's is more for his own wallet, even though his team does not rake in the money as do other teams.
Truthfully, the 1994 World Series was canceled more because of Reinsdorf than because of Selig. Reinsdorf before that season started was heard telling several persons that he was going to make sure the season never completed and would try to make sure the fans blamed the players for it.
[quote]
OK, so Selig lets Rose back in the game. Then why not go ahead and reinstate Shoeless Joe as well? He is a sure Hall of Famer as well, and his affect on the game is no worse. This can be debated I guess, because one could argue the Reds didn't throw a World Series. But when you narrow the focus to the fact that Rose and Jackson (with others) both affected the integrity of MLB play, then they are one in the same. We've lived this long without Shoeless Joe in the Hall, who was a legend in his time. Rose will be remembered for his part in the game as the all-time hits leader whether he is in the Hall or not, so why reinstate him?
If Rose is reinstated, then it is only fair that Shoeless Joe be reinstated as well. IMHO, however, I believe neither person should be reinstated. Selig is not as concerned about Jackson as he is about Rose, and that's because Rose is the one with whom recent and current fans are more familiar. In fact, I'd bet that if a poll was taken about these two players' reinstatement, Rose would be more heavily favored than Jackson. Because of Rose's "popularity," Selig believes that as Commissioner, he will be the Savior by letting Rose back in the game.
Lastly, permit me to say that I am not on some personal vendetta here or some petition drive to deny Rose's reinstatement. That is not my call, so to speak. It is not my decision. I lack the authority to make such decisions. I'm just expressing the sentiment of not only myself but my peers. Heck, you should have heard the comments made on a recent union conference call we had. Suffice it to say there were some interesting remarks.
Ump25, thanks for providing us with such accurate and profound insight throughout your numerous excellent posts on this thread....while I am sad to say that I am not the least bit surprised at ANY of the comments that you have made, it still angers me beyond belief to witness the unconscionable actions of Selig and Reinsdorf (among others) as they repeatedly attempt to harm our national pasttime and sacrifice the very integrity and credibility of our great game for their own selfish, egotistical "benefit" -- IMHO there are very few men in this country who are more dispicable than those two egomaniacs at the present time....as you so eloquently stated, Selig was entrusted to preserve and protect the image and morality of the sport and has repeatedly broken that trust with his indefensible words and actions.
As slim as the odds may be, I continue to hold out hope that Fay Vincent, John Dowd and the dozens of living Hall of Famers who hold the game in the highest esteem that it deserves will continue to speak out loud and clear and will somehow put an end to the worst of this administration's far-too-long history of ignoble intentions -- if for no other reason than to ensure that the actions of the late, great Bart Giamatti were not in vain....there may be two outs in the bottom of the ninth but fortunately there are still plenty of "good guys" who are willing to keep on swinging and stand up for what is right -- that group includes millions of fans, players, AND umpires whose integrity CANNOT be bought for ANY price....I only hope and pray that it is not too late and that their voices will somehow be heard before the game's basic foundation is irreparably damaged beyond repair.
[ January 06, 2003: Message edited by: gamecock ]
As slim as the odds may be, I continue to hold out hope that Fay Vincent, John Dowd and the dozens of living Hall of Famers who hold the game in the highest esteem that it deserves will continue to speak out loud and clear and will somehow put an end to the worst of this administration's far-too-long history of ignoble intentions -- if for no other reason than to ensure that the actions of the late, great Bart Giamatti were not in vain....there may be two outs in the bottom of the ninth but fortunately there are still plenty of "good guys" who are willing to keep on swinging and stand up for what is right -- that group includes millions of fans, players, AND umpires whose integrity CANNOT be bought for ANY price....I only hope and pray that it is not too late and that their voices will somehow be heard before the game's basic foundation is irreparably damaged beyond repair.
[ January 06, 2003: Message edited by: gamecock ]
I second Ump25's opinion about Reinsdorf, gamecock. I'm a White Sox fan in Chicago, and I've never liked the guy. Ever since he bought the team 20+ years ago, he has refused to spend money to get real players, he has hired wimpy yes-men as GM's, he treats the fans like shit, you name it.
Even the "new" Comiskey Park is a joke. The damn thing's an antiseptic shopping mall. He stuck half the seating way upstairs, above 3 decks, just so he could fit in his precious "club" seating and two levels of skyboxes.
Then in 1994 he helped shut down the game at a time when many in baseball considered the White Sox and Expos the two best teams--probably heading for a World Series.
As far as I am concerned, I hope he dies a slow, painful death and rots in hell.
Even the "new" Comiskey Park is a joke. The damn thing's an antiseptic shopping mall. He stuck half the seating way upstairs, above 3 decks, just so he could fit in his precious "club" seating and two levels of skyboxes.
Then in 1994 he helped shut down the game at a time when many in baseball considered the White Sox and Expos the two best teams--probably heading for a World Series.
As far as I am concerned, I hope he dies a slow, painful death and rots in hell.
MIB, I must admit that new Comiskey is quite nice to work in. The people there treat us extremely well, and our clubhouse is both huge and, dare I say, luxurious.
Also, working on that field is a delight. There is a lot of room and space so that we are not too close to the crowd. I don't like feeling boxed in or too enclosed, which is the case in some parks.
Lastly, Chicago in general is probably the most preferred city in which to work. At least, that's the opinion of most of us.
Also, working on that field is a delight. There is a lot of room and space so that we are not too close to the crowd. I don't like feeling boxed in or too enclosed, which is the case in some parks.
Lastly, Chicago in general is probably the most preferred city in which to work. At least, that's the opinion of most of us.
[quote]Originally posted by MIB:
As far as I am concerned, I hope he dies a slow, painful death and rots in hell.
Tell us how you really feel, MIB.
As far as I am concerned, I hope he dies a slow, painful death and rots in hell.
Tell us how you really feel, MIB.
[quote]Originally posted by Ump25:
.....luxurious.
Oooooh!!
.....luxurious.
Oooooh!!
Really, bluebird, jealousy is sooooo unbecoming of you.
Just an FYI article...
Smith says Rose should admit wrongdoing
By R.B. FALLSTROM
.c The Associated Press
ST. LOUIS (AP) - Pete Rose won't get Ozzie Smith's vote until he admits wrongdoing.
The former St. Louis Cardinals shortstop became the latest Hall of Famer to weigh in on the Rose issue, saying Saturday that he believed contrition would a good first step for the career hits leader.
``Personally, I think Pete has to step up and take a lot of responsibility before he's going to be allowed to get into the Hall of Fame,'' Smith said. ``What has happened to this point is he has not taken any real responsibility for any wrongdoing.''
Smith said he made up his mind after reading the John Dowd report that detailed Rose's alleged gambling transgressions.
``It's very hard with the documents against him,'' Smith said. ``It's not alleged, they have proof. If he admits what he did, that'll go a long way toward helping him get it together.''
Another Cardinals Hall of Famer, pitcher Bob Gibson, said he had no opinion on the Rose issue.
``If he get in, fine,'' Gibson said. ``If he doesn't, that's fine, too.''
Commissioner Bud Selig plans to schedule a meeting with the 60 living Hall of Famers perhaps next month to discuss whether Rose should be allowed back into the game.
Rose agreed to a permanent ban from baseball in August 1989 after an investigation of his gambling. Because of the ban, he cannot appear on the Hall of Fame ballot.
Rose applied for reinstatement in September 1997, but Selig hasn't rule on it.
Smith says Rose should admit wrongdoing
By R.B. FALLSTROM
.c The Associated Press
ST. LOUIS (AP) - Pete Rose won't get Ozzie Smith's vote until he admits wrongdoing.
The former St. Louis Cardinals shortstop became the latest Hall of Famer to weigh in on the Rose issue, saying Saturday that he believed contrition would a good first step for the career hits leader.
``Personally, I think Pete has to step up and take a lot of responsibility before he's going to be allowed to get into the Hall of Fame,'' Smith said. ``What has happened to this point is he has not taken any real responsibility for any wrongdoing.''
Smith said he made up his mind after reading the John Dowd report that detailed Rose's alleged gambling transgressions.
``It's very hard with the documents against him,'' Smith said. ``It's not alleged, they have proof. If he admits what he did, that'll go a long way toward helping him get it together.''
Another Cardinals Hall of Famer, pitcher Bob Gibson, said he had no opinion on the Rose issue.
``If he get in, fine,'' Gibson said. ``If he doesn't, that's fine, too.''
Commissioner Bud Selig plans to schedule a meeting with the 60 living Hall of Famers perhaps next month to discuss whether Rose should be allowed back into the game.
Rose agreed to a permanent ban from baseball in August 1989 after an investigation of his gambling. Because of the ban, he cannot appear on the Hall of Fame ballot.
Rose applied for reinstatement in September 1997, but Selig hasn't rule on it.
Some interesting developments have arisen regarding the Pete Rose reinstatement issue. As soon as we get more information, I'll pass along whatever I deem as nonconfidential.
I can tell you this much, though: Selig is in one big mess and is perplexed at the mess that has developed. Information has come out that Rose is in debt for more than $150,000, and that he has been spending a LOT of time at Las Vegas casinos recently.
I can tell you this much, though: Selig is in one big mess and is perplexed at the mess that has developed. Information has come out that Rose is in debt for more than $150,000, and that he has been spending a LOT of time at Las Vegas casinos recently.
Here's a column in today's Philadelphia Daily News regarding the Rose issue, including the recent developments that he owes more back taxes and has been seen in Vegas a lot...
Away from the action: Let Pete go in Hall & toss first balls, but that's all
Away from the action: Let Pete go in Hall & toss first balls, but that's all
Well at least the Canadians got it right! Rose failed to get the required 75% of the vote to earn enshrinement into their Baseball Hall of Fame.
But I have a feeling his stats kept him out more than his scandals. Rose joined the Expos at the start of the 1984 season and batted .259 with 23 RBI in 95 games. He played first base and outfield. He did get his 4000th hit with the Expos.
But I have a feeling his stats kept him out more than his scandals. Rose joined the Expos at the start of the 1984 season and batted .259 with 23 RBI in 95 games. He played first base and outfield. He did get his 4000th hit with the Expos.
Conan O'Brien: "This week, Pete Rose was denied membership in the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame. Actually, it's not that big of a deal because the only person in the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame is Wayne Gretsky."
Mike Schmidt takes a differing view. He thinks Rose will be reinstated.
QUOTE
DCBucky:
Conan O'Brien: \"This week, Pete Rose was denied membership in the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame. Actually, it's not that big of a deal because the only person in the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame is Wayne Gretsky.\"
Isn't the man's name Gretzky?Conan O'Brien: \"This week, Pete Rose was denied membership in the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame. Actually, it's not that big of a deal because the only person in the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame is Wayne Gretsky.\"
Rose should be reinstated once he admits to the gambling. But only then. He was one of the hardest-working players, and took what could have been middling talent and turned it into something spectacular. Anyone who ever saw him play--as I did when he played against the Cardinals when I was little--knows this. He was the real thing.
Drugs--and by this I mean STEROIDS--are a horrible blight on baseball, and need to be banned. I watched the 1968 World Series game between the Cards and Tigers on ESPN Classic the other weekend, and it's amazing to see how lean and powerful those players were. The travesty of drugs, whether of the illicit kind or of steroids, is a serious, serious problem, and rivals gambling. Maybe David Wells's figure of 40% is too high, but even 1% is too high. Baseball has been sullied for more than 30 years. Getting rid of Selig, Steinbrenner, Reinsdorf, and some of the other awful owners would be a great step to turning it around.
[ March 06, 2003, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]
It's interesting to me that with baseball being so traditional that the very man (Selig) who is trying to "save" The League is attempting to bring back a man who goes against everything sacred about the game...the game is built on credibility, trust, fabric that binds the sport. Seems to me like the only guys left holding the strings together are the guys in blue...such is often the case. Sometimes I feel like guys like Ump25 and his colleges are the first soldiers reaching the shores of Dieppe...full of passion, desire and love for the very game that leaves them standing on the shore with no second wave to back them up.
Rose's record is a tremendous feat, a true hall of famer...he made a decison years ago that closed the chapter on that specific celebraton of true athleticism...shit happens Pete, live with it.
Rose's record is a tremendous feat, a true hall of famer...he made a decison years ago that closed the chapter on that specific celebraton of true athleticism...shit happens Pete, live with it.
[quote]Ty
[QB] It's interesting to me that with baseball being so traditional that the very man (Selig) who is trying to \"save\" The League is attempting to bring back a man who goes against everything sacred about the game...the game is built on credibility, trust, fabric that binds the sport. Seems to me like the only guys left holding the strings together are the guys in blue...such is often the case. Sometimes I feel like guys like Ump25 and his colleges are the first soldiers reaching the shores of Dieppe...full of passion, desire and love for the very game that leaves them standing on the shore with no second wave to back them up. [QUOTE] [/quote]Very well said, Ty....not that I would expect anything less from a former professional umpire
....there is little doubt that Selig is publicizing his "potential reinstatement" of Rose for the sole of purpose of P.R. in a selfish attempt to improve his own legacy and popularity as Commissioner (at least in his mind, anyway) before he leaves office (which cannot happen soon enough as far as TRUE baseball fans are concerned).
If Rose is indeed reinstated, IMHO this will represent one of the saddest days in the history of the game....the fact that the Commissioner, the very individual who is "elected" to oversee and preserve the integrity and credibility of the sport, would sacrifice the very foundation on which the game's trust is built for his own personal "gain" is reprehensible....while it is clear that the Commissioner (at least this one and all of them following the firing of Fay Vincent eleven years ago) is purely a "psuedo-owner" who places the interests of his millionaire cronies ahead of the game itself, that does not make it right, despite their attempts to justify their actions by continually citing contrived results of "public opinion polls".
It's time that all of the legends of the game (particularly the 58 living hall-of-famers, who will presumably meet with Selig and be given an opportunity to voice their opinion before a final decision is made) stand up to Selig, Reinsdorf, and the rest of his corrupt entourage, and let these "executives" know that such conduct will NOT be tolerated....hundreds of millions of dollars may have been able to buy them a major league franchise and, in Selig's case, a position as Commissioner, but no amount of money should be able to jeopardize the sanctity and integrity of the game itself.
[ March 09, 2003, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: gamecock ]
[QB] It's interesting to me that with baseball being so traditional that the very man (Selig) who is trying to \"save\" The League is attempting to bring back a man who goes against everything sacred about the game...the game is built on credibility, trust, fabric that binds the sport. Seems to me like the only guys left holding the strings together are the guys in blue...such is often the case. Sometimes I feel like guys like Ump25 and his colleges are the first soldiers reaching the shores of Dieppe...full of passion, desire and love for the very game that leaves them standing on the shore with no second wave to back them up. [QUOTE] [/quote]Very well said, Ty....not that I would expect anything less from a former professional umpire
....there is little doubt that Selig is publicizing his "potential reinstatement" of Rose for the sole of purpose of P.R. in a selfish attempt to improve his own legacy and popularity as Commissioner (at least in his mind, anyway) before he leaves office (which cannot happen soon enough as far as TRUE baseball fans are concerned).If Rose is indeed reinstated, IMHO this will represent one of the saddest days in the history of the game....the fact that the Commissioner, the very individual who is "elected" to oversee and preserve the integrity and credibility of the sport, would sacrifice the very foundation on which the game's trust is built for his own personal "gain" is reprehensible....while it is clear that the Commissioner (at least this one and all of them following the firing of Fay Vincent eleven years ago) is purely a "psuedo-owner" who places the interests of his millionaire cronies ahead of the game itself, that does not make it right, despite their attempts to justify their actions by continually citing contrived results of "public opinion polls".
It's time that all of the legends of the game (particularly the 58 living hall-of-famers, who will presumably meet with Selig and be given an opportunity to voice their opinion before a final decision is made) stand up to Selig, Reinsdorf, and the rest of his corrupt entourage, and let these "executives" know that such conduct will NOT be tolerated....hundreds of millions of dollars may have been able to buy them a major league franchise and, in Selig's case, a position as Commissioner, but no amount of money should be able to jeopardize the sanctity and integrity of the game itself.
[ March 09, 2003, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: gamecock ]
QUOTE
Ty:
...the game is built on credibility, trust, fabric that binds the sport. Seems to me like the only guys left holding the strings together are the guys in blue...such is often the case. Sometimes I feel like guys like Ump25 and his colleges are the first soldiers reaching the shores of Dieppe...full of passion, desire and love for the very game that leaves them standing on the shore with no second wave to back them up.
I would hope, Ty, that my colleagues feel the way I do. This reminds me of a quote from someone whom I believe would have gone down as MLB's best Commissioner ever had he lived:...the game is built on credibility, trust, fabric that binds the sport. Seems to me like the only guys left holding the strings together are the guys in blue...such is often the case. Sometimes I feel like guys like Ump25 and his colleges are the first soldiers reaching the shores of Dieppe...full of passion, desire and love for the very game that leaves them standing on the shore with no second wave to back them up.
"...remember that you are the temporary custodians of an enduring public trust. As the persons empowered to protect the integrity of our national pastime, you assume a role that demands of you both your heart and your soul, for into your hands we place our Game's trust."
-- Bart Giamatti, to MLB Umpires, 1989
QUOTE
Ump25:
This reminds me of a quote from someone whom I believe would have gone down as MLB's best Commissioner ever had he lived
\"...remember that you are the temporary custodians of an enduring public trust. As the persons empowered to protect the integrity of our national pastime, you assume a role that demands of you both your heart and your soul, for into your hands we place our Game's trust.\"
-- Bart Giamatti, to MLB Umpires, 1989 [/QB]
Thanks for sharing that quote, Ump....after reading Fay Vincent's recent book, "The Last Commissioner" my respect and admiration for both he and Bart Giamatti have grown immeasurably....and I echo your sentiments completely about the legacy that Bart would have left and the positive impact he would have had upon the sport -- it's unfortunate in many respects that the millions of baseball fans did not get to reap the benefits (throughout the past decade as well as today) of his leadership skills, level of integrity and genuine love for the game.
This reminds me of a quote from someone whom I believe would have gone down as MLB's best Commissioner ever had he lived
\"...remember that you are the temporary custodians of an enduring public trust. As the persons empowered to protect the integrity of our national pastime, you assume a role that demands of you both your heart and your soul, for into your hands we place our Game's trust.\"
-- Bart Giamatti, to MLB Umpires, 1989 [/QB]
Here's good (?) news....
QUOTE
On Wednesday, May 21 the Camden Riversharks will honor legendary baseball player and local hero Pete Rose by retiring his number at Campbell’s Field.
Pete will be in attendance for the event and will participate in a special on-field ceremony honoring him and his legendary career. Pete will be presented with a special Riversharks jersey with his familiar 14 on the back. That number will then be retired and never worn by a Riversharks player.
“Pete has meant so much to baseball fans all over the world, but the baseball fans in this area have a special affection toward him,” commented Riversharks General Manager John Brandt. “We want to honor the way Pete played the game and use that as an example of the type of intensity and hustle that we expect from our players.”
On hand for the ceremony will be Riversharks manager Wayne Krenchiki who played for the Cincinnati Reds with Pete. Pete will arrive early and be on hand to talk with the Riversharks players as well as their opponent that night, the Newark Bears.
Tickets for the Pete Rose Appreciation Night and all Riversharks home games go on sale Saturday, March 15 at 10:00 a.m. at the Campbell’s Field Ticket Office. Everyone who purchases a ticket, for any 2003 game, in person on Saturday will be registered for a special drawing with the winner getting to attend a private “meet and greet” with Pete Rose on May 21.
The Riversharks are part of the Atlantic League, an independent league not affiliated with MLB, which is how they can get away with allowing Rose to attend. Their field is just across the Delaware River from downtown Phila. I'm hoping to get there and see a game in person.
Pete will be in attendance for the event and will participate in a special on-field ceremony honoring him and his legendary career. Pete will be presented with a special Riversharks jersey with his familiar 14 on the back. That number will then be retired and never worn by a Riversharks player.
“Pete has meant so much to baseball fans all over the world, but the baseball fans in this area have a special affection toward him,” commented Riversharks General Manager John Brandt. “We want to honor the way Pete played the game and use that as an example of the type of intensity and hustle that we expect from our players.”
On hand for the ceremony will be Riversharks manager Wayne Krenchiki who played for the Cincinnati Reds with Pete. Pete will arrive early and be on hand to talk with the Riversharks players as well as their opponent that night, the Newark Bears.
Tickets for the Pete Rose Appreciation Night and all Riversharks home games go on sale Saturday, March 15 at 10:00 a.m. at the Campbell’s Field Ticket Office. Everyone who purchases a ticket, for any 2003 game, in person on Saturday will be registered for a special drawing with the winner getting to attend a private “meet and greet” with Pete Rose on May 21.
And after the game Pete is taking all of them to the casino.
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Ump25:
And after the game Pete is taking all of them to the casino.
Why bother since he's already taken the game of baseball to the washer.
And after the game Pete is taking all of them to the casino.
QUOTE
Ump25:
And after the game Pete is taking all of them to the casino.
no need for casinos -- let's get Jagr to teach Rose how to gamble over the internet.
And after the game Pete is taking all of them to the casino.
Actually, they're all going to the casino and then the next day the franchise will be renamed the "Loan Sharks."
Man, ESPN may be hitting a new low. On Thursday, they will air Pete Rose on Trial hosted by Bob Ley. Just caught the promo during the HR Derby. It will feature Johnnie Cochran for the defense and the equally repugnant Alan Dershowitz for the prosecution. God help us!
Pathetic. The more I watch ESPN, the older I feel. The wild graphics, moronic announcers and hosts, crap like this show...ugh. Bring back the good old days before cable. 
Baseball Prospectus reports that Pete Rose has already signed an agreement to be reinstated in 2004. Not so fast, says Bob DuPuy, MLB COO to ESPN.com:
\"totally unfounded, totally unsubstantiated...journalistically irresponsible\"
\"totally unfounded, totally unsubstantiated...journalistically irresponsible\"
Did you see the Sunday Conversation on SportsCenter this week? He dodged more questions than Arnold Schwarzenegger! I really want him to just go away already.
I really want him to just go away already.
Joe, if it's true that Rose is to be reinstated with no admission of guilt, that's sad, very sad. However, it doesn't surprise me at all when one looks at who is running the game.
BTW, we've been told some info as of late, but not much. I'll just say that I believe there is going to be a storm of controversy if what we've been told comes true. It's obvious Selig just doesn't get it. The more he tries to come across as the fans' favorite, the more he screws things up.
BTW, we've been told some info as of late, but not much. I'll just say that I believe there is going to be a storm of controversy if what we've been told comes true. It's obvious Selig just doesn't get it. The more he tries to come across as the fans' favorite, the more he screws things up.
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The Umpire
I'll just say that I believe there is going to be a storm of controversy if what we've been told comes true. It's obvious Selig just doesn't get it. The more he tries to come across as the fans' favorite, the more he screws things up.
That's as succinct and accurate a description of the situation as I've read anywhere, ump....I only hope for the sake of the game and the millions of fans and MLB employees who have its best interests at heart that these latest rumors prove to be false and that Dupuy is accurate with his adamant denials of any "aggreement" having been reached, or even in the works for that matter....watching Rose squirm like a guilty politician and refuse to give a straight answer to the obvious questions (as he's been doing for the past 14 years) during his SportsCenter interview on sunday night made me sick to my stomach -- why do the networks execs continue to give this lying scoundrel a platform to spew more of his b.s.? :confused: frown
I'll just say that I believe there is going to be a storm of controversy if what we've been told comes true. It's obvious Selig just doesn't get it. The more he tries to come across as the fans' favorite, the more he screws things up.
QUOTE
gamecock:
why do the networks execs continue to give this lying scoundrel a platform to spew more of his b.s.?
Because he's popular, like another one I can think of who used to own the Texas Rangers...why do the networks execs continue to give this lying scoundrel a platform to spew more of his b.s.?
I would be shocked (and appalled) if Beelzebud allowed Rose back to any degree without an admission of guilt. It seems unlikely from a PR standpoint alone.
Peter Gammons spoke of this today on Baseball Tonight with a tone of inevitability. He states firmly that Rose will be reinstated by November 1. He will have to make some sort of contrition. Okay, no real shocker there. Selig wants to resolve 2 issues in the immediate future-Rose and the Expos home, two of the darker clouds over the Selig administration.
But Gammons also says that its only a matter of time before Rose is allowed to coach and/or manage again! And that the Reds (yes the very same Reds that Rose probably bet on and against!)are most anxious to rehire him!
[ August 13, 2003, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: George_vikingfan ]
But Gammons also says that its only a matter of time before Rose is allowed to coach and/or manage again! And that the Reds (yes the very same Reds that Rose probably bet on and against!)are most anxious to rehire him!
[ August 13, 2003, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: George_vikingfan ]
QUOTE
George_vikingfan
But Gammons also says that its only a matter of time before Rose is allowed to coach and/or manage again! And that the Reds (yes the very same Reds that Rose probably bet on and against!)are most anxious to rehire him!
Even though I believe there have never been any accusations that Rose bet AGAINST the Reds this in no way lessens the severity of his actions IMHO and makes these latest rumors even more appalling -- especially the fact that any owner would EVER consider hiring someone with a severe gambling problem to be their team's MANAGER? :confused: ....as for Rose's "willingness" to admit he bet on baseball and "apologize" for his past actions, given the fact that he has steadfastly lied about his guilt for the past 14 YEARS any insincere apology that he now utters in a veiled attempt to get back in the game's "good graces" is worthless in my book....Can Selig get out of office soon enough before he does any more irreparable harm to this game?
But Gammons also says that its only a matter of time before Rose is allowed to coach and/or manage again! And that the Reds (yes the very same Reds that Rose probably bet on and against!)are most anxious to rehire him!
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