Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Carlos Delgado's private anti-war protest goes public
Outsports Discussion Board > Outsports > Politics & Religion
canmark
On Saturday, a Toronto Star article outlined Carlos Delgado's private protest: when "God Bless America" is played at some U.S. ballparks, he refuses to stand outside the dugout.

QUOTE
\"I never stay outside for `God Bless America,'\" Delgado said. \"I actually don't think people have noticed it. I don't (stand) because I don't believe it's right, I don't believe in the war.\"

Delgado was the first high-profile athlete to speak out against the U.S. Navy's six-decade presence in Vieques (Puerto Rico), where it used the lush green hillsides and pristine beaches as the prime testing facility for the weapons of the entire Atlantic Fleet.

The Jays slugger had heard some of the island's 9,300 residents complaining about how uranium-depleted shells used in the tests were causing abnormally high rates of cancer and other serious illnesses. By the time the Navy finally did pull out of Vieques on May 1, 2003, it left behind a community terrified by health concerns, dealing with unemployment close to 50 per cent and facing unresolved development and cleanup issues.
This issue was then picked up by Jim Rome, with plenty of anti-Carlos calls on his radio show.

QUOTE
Carlos Delgado, recently sat out the playing of God Bless America, and has been doing it as well, he’s against the war in Iraq…(speaking out about ve-acas) he’s anti-war, opposed to war of any kind…the weapons used in Iraq were used in vee-acas…he will stand for the National Anthem, Canadians make a distinction between the National Anthem and God Bless America, he says it as a song used for patriotism, (is he anti America or is he anti war?)…he thinks the song is used to rally up the troops and he doesn’t support the war, …(should you call on god to bless any one country over another)…Take, listen, look at all the people going to see Fahrenheit 911, there’s plenty of people here that oppose the war, …Take, it’s American to protest something….Take, normally we criticize athletes for not putting their necks out and taking a stand, having an opinion, putting your neck out there…Take, then again, should they use the playing field as a pulpit…Take, another take, the guy is putting himself in the cross hairs, it’s going to potentially cost him money in endorsements. The guy could fall in line and do nothing, and go with the company line…Take, he considers himself an American citizen…Take, having a poor year, ribcage injury is part of it…doesn’t have much protection in the lineup…

Bottom line, do I have some questions, perhaps, would I not get up on the bench for God Bless America? No. But it’s a right, he considers himself a US citizen, that’s what America is about believing what you believe and not be punished for your views, he doesn’t support the war effort, he believes that by standing for that song, he would be supporting the war, he’s anti war, so he sits, am I thrilled to see it? No, am I offended and do I think he’s the enemy because of it. No. He’s anti war, not anti America, if he was anti America, he wouldn’t consider himself a citizen nor would he be making all that jack on American soil, if so, he’d be a hypocrite…Take, part of being an American is being able to stand up for what you believe in or in this case what you don’t believe in, and he’s taking a stand, he’s saying this is what I believe in and I give him credit for it, it’s not for me, when that song is played, I’m getting up on the bench, but I’m not offended by…it’s the path of greater resistance not less.
BTW, I should add that Carlos Delgado is my favorite player, and I totally support his views.

[ July 07, 2004, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: canmark ]
CPT_Doom
QUOTE
But it’s a right, he considers himself a US citizen, that’s what America is about believing what you believe and not be punished for your views,
If he's a Puero Rican native, he more that "considers himself a US citizen" he IS a US citizen. Just because one was born in a US territory does not mean one is not a US citizen.

As for the protest - it seems mild and non-disruptive enough to me.
JC
He's entitled to his freedom of expression like everybody else. It's worth noting that while Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens, they don't necessarily identify themselves as Americans. For all we know, he could be a Puerto Rican nationalist. As far as putting himself in the crosshairs, etc.--I doubt Carlos Delgado's protest will impact his popularity in Canada at all, and I expect that's where most of his endorsement money comes from.
DownLowNY
Delgado had better be very careful. By speaking truth to power, he has put himself in the gunsights of all kinds of right-wing rabble-rousers and "patriotic" vigilantes.

This brings to mind the case of Mahmoud Abdul Rauf, the Denver Nuggets player who staged a similar protest in 1996. It ended up costing him his career in the NBA when he was released the following season.

I would not be surprised if Delgado suffers a similar fate. The only thing that might save him is if the Latino community really embraces him and makes it clear to Major League Baseball that it will pay a price if it chooses to play "patriotic" politics with his career.

In any event, I admire Delgado's courage and consciousness. He could have gone alone to get along, but he chose to take a stand. Let's hope he doesn't end up regretting it.
RGMike
QUOTE
JC:
I doubt Carlos Delgado's protest will impact his popularity in Canada at all, and I expect that's where most of his endorsement money comes from.
On the other hand, if he were to be traded...
gamecock
QUOTE
DownLowNY
This brings to mind the case of Mahmoud Abdul Rauf, the Denver Nuggets player who staged a similar protest in 1996. It ended up costing him his career in the NBA when he was released the following season.
I would not be surprised if Delgado suffers a similar fate.
In any event, I admire Delgado's courage and consciousness. He could have gone alone to get along, but he chose to take a stand. Let's hope he doesn't end up regretting it.
I see your point, DownLow, but I don't think the analogy between Abdul Rauf and Delgado is valid here....Carlos' mediocre 2004 stats notwithstanding (.229, 8 HR, 32 RBI -- which is largely attributable to his ribcage injury limiting Delgado to only 50 games and 179 AB's prior to being reactivated today) he has proven to be FAR too valuable since becoming a full-time player in 1996 for this minor "controversy" to cause every team to lose interest or "blackmail" him altogether....in fact, based upon the offensive numbers that Carlos has produced over the past 6 years (averaging 39 HR and 123 RBI including last seasons' stellar .302/42/145 performance that deserved more serious AL MVP consideration IMHO) I'd be willing to bet that if Delgado was a free agent after this season that he would still attract major attention and BIG bucks from quite a few big-market teams.

In either event, I too support Carlos for the courageous stand that he is taking and do not feel that his actions are in any way anti-American or worthy of either negative reaction from the fans or disciplinary action by the team/league....in fact, if more professional athletes let their true feelings be known instead of spouting some "politically correct" rhetoric on the rare occasions they are asked about it by the media then maybe more fans would rethink their position about this vitally important issue.

[ July 07, 2004, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: gamecock ]
judemorrison
To Downlow - While I support Delgado's right to express himself, lets not forget that there are always consequences to one's actions, and while he has the right to stage his personal protest, fans and team owners also have the right to express their opposition to that protest. It isn't censorship if Delgado feels negative responses to his actions. While the Constitution protects our right to express ourselves, it doesn't protect us from other people's lawful reactions to our expression.
fantomas
I'd heard about this, and definitely support him and any other player (American or not) who wants to express his feelings (pro or anti-war). I think he's willing and ready to deal with the consequences.

Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens, but the island, like the District of Columbia, does not have representation in Congress or Senate--and both have larger populations than Wyoming. (Puerto Rico has about 3+ million people). PR is basically a Latin American/Caribbean US colony, and should have gotten its freedom a long time ago.

BTW, Carlos Delgado is a beautiful man--he's like that "Tyson" doll come to life.

[ July 08, 2004, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]
judemorrison
As I stated previously, I fully support Delgado's right to protest and express himself, and Fantomas, I would hope that he is ready and willing to accept the consequences of his actions. What I meant by my previous post was that on too many occassions people confuse their right to express themselves with an incorrect belief that there will be no consequences for such expression. Downlo seemed to intimate that if there were any negative reactions to Delgado's protest that the Latin community should somehow join together in an action against baseball. If fans express their opposition to Delgado, and owners react to that fan displeasure by, say, not renewing his contract, this would not be censorship (no one would be stopping his freedom of expression) but business (an action that I, personally, would disagree with.)
As for the status of P.R., the people of P.R. have , in every referendum, opted to retain their Commonwealth status, rather than go the Independence route, so please don't categorize the status of the island as a persucuted colonial possession of the big, bad U.S. That would be inaccurate and way too PC.
fantomas
QUOTE
judemorrison:

As for the status of P.R., the people of P.R. have , in every referendum, opted to retain their Commonwealth status, rather than go the Independence route, so please don't categorize the status of the island as a persucuted colonial possession of the big, bad U.S. That would be inaccurate and way too PC.
Yes, I'm quite aware of Puerto Rico's Commonwealth status and the votes to maintain it. However, it is not inaccurate to call Puerto Rico a US colony; it became a United States possession as a result of the US defeat of Spain in 1898, and unlike several of the other colonial states over which the United States assumed control during that period (Cuba and Philippines being the two most notable), Puerto Rico remains a US possession. There was a SCOTUS ruling in the 20s or so that actually suggested the US Constitution didn't apply in Puerto Rico!

Its people are now US citizens (this didn't occur until around 1916) but do not have full rights (this has been the case since the Foraker Act, I believe). It basically functions as a colonial protectorate rather than a commonwealth (if one considers the current usage of that term in the world); it has neither the autonomy of a Scotland or Wales, nor a full constitutional government (though the head of state remains British) like Canada or Australia. It's hardly PC to point this out.

[ July 09, 2004, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]
fantomas
Back to Delgado--the doll is already out....

IPB Image IPB Image
judemorrison
Fantomas, what I was referring to was your implication that the U.S. has denied the Puerto Rican people the right of deciding for themselves what their status, vis-a-vis the U.S., should be. I'm well aware of the history of U.S. colonialism, but I repeat that I think that it would be wrong to classify PR as a colony or the U.S. as a colonial Caribbean power in today's world.
DownLowNY
QUOTE
judemorrison:
As I stated previously, I fully support Delgado's right to protest and express himself, and Fantomas, I would hope that he is ready and willing to accept the consequences of his actions. What I meant by my previous post was that on too many occassions people confuse their right to express themselves with an incorrect belief that there will be no consequences for such expression. Downlo seemed to intimate that if there were any negative reactions to Delgado's protest that the Latin community should somehow join together in an action against baseball. If fans express their opposition to Delgado, and owners react to that fan displeasure by, say, not renewing his contract, this would not be censorship (no one would be stopping his freedom of expression) but business (an action that I, personally, would disagree with.)
What I actually said about the Delgado situation is that he may well be subject to some kind of backlash on the part of the ML Baseball hierarchy. It is not inconceivable that his contract could be jeopardized; we have seen this before. I cited the example of Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf in the NBA.

Jude is certainly correct to observe that actions have consequences. I would only add that those who wish to warn of consequences must be prepared to face consequences. By that same logic, those who wish to engage in retaliation cannot squeal when they are subject to counter-retaliation. It would be entirely just and proper for the Latino community to impose counter-sanctions against MLB, in the event that it attempts to penalize Delgado. The issue, at that point, is not one of censorship, but rather of the right of Latinos to spend their dollars as they wish. If Latinos disapprove of the behavior of MLB vis-a-vis Delgado, they have every right to withdraw their patronage of baseball—both directly and indirectly.

It is not for me to say what Latinos should do. I am simply arguing that the threat of a communal response is one of the few things that would abort a move against Delgado by MLB.
judemorrison
Right on, Downlo. I'm all for free expression and the right of individuals or groups to protest, boycott, etc. I'm just wary of possible charges (erroneous in my opinion) of censorship or discrimination if or when protesters like Delgado engender negative feedback/repurcussions. When the Dixie Chicks had their dustup a while back, people charged censorship when stations stopped playing their tunes or people protested at their concerts. Bulls... No one tried to stop them from speaking or expressing themselves; long live freedom of speech and expression,....for all!
fantomas
QUOTE
judemorrison:
Fantomas, what I was referring to was your implication that the U.S. has denied the Puerto Rican people the right of deciding for themselves what their status, vis-a-vis the U.S., should be. I'm well aware of the history of U.S. colonialism, but I repeat that I think that it would be wrong to classify PR as a colony or the U.S. as a colonial Caribbean power in today's world.
The US totally dominates the Caribbean, as it has since the 19th century. Just look at the two most populous countries in the Caribbean, Haiti (with 7+ million people) and the Dominican Republic (with 8 million people), both of which the United States has occupied (Haiti repeatedly, DR twice) in the 20th century.

In Haiti, the government vocally supported the overthrow of the democratically elected president, Aristide, then flew him out of the country. The main military forces in Haiti as I type this are from the US, W has chosen not to disarm the rebels (whose leaders include a number of notorious human rights violators and murderers with past ties to the CIA, etc.). And the US is providing the primary international support for Aristide's replacement, LaTortue, since the other Caribbean nations remain very suspicious of his removal from office.

In the Dominican Republic, the US supported the last, truly inept president Mejia, in no small part because he agreed to send Dominican troops to Iraq (against the majority will of the Dominican people) and will now support his replacement, Fernandez Reyna, who was educated in the US and when he was last in office pursued pro-US economic policies (while presiding over outrageous corruption).

The plebiscites on Puerto Rico's status haven't always occurred, and don't believe that they aren't influenced by US government interests. It may not sound great, but Puerto Rico is still a US colony.
canmark
As the Jays go to Yankee Stadium (where they play God Bless America during the seventh inning stretch), a NY Times writer comments on the controversy.

QUOTE
Delgado Makes a Stand by Taking a Seat
By WILLIAM C. RHODEN

\"I'm not trying to get anyone mad,\" he said Monday in Oakland, where the Blue Jays were playing the Athletics. \"This is my personal feeling. I don't want to draw attention to myself or go out of my way to protest. If I make the last out of the seventh inning, I'll stand there. But I'd rather be in the dugout.\"

Good for him. In the world of mainstream professional sports, where cookie-cutter athletes rarely take a stand on any issue, let alone one as highly charged as a war, Delgado is a rarity. He is unafraid to question a ritual that he does not agree with. Delgado's protest this season has been so quiet, so subtle that Bud Selig, the baseball commissioner, didn't know about it until I called him to talk about it on Monday.

When you called me today you actually startled me,\" he said from his office in Milwaukee. Selig later read a statement that he had prepared on Delgado's action.

\"I'm in the process of getting more information, but eventually I would like to sit down and discuss it with Carlos,\" Selig said. \"I am very sensitive to this kind of issue, both as a matter of respect for our country and for one's right to express his opinion.\"

I'll be watching to see how Selig handles this.

It was Selig, in the aftermath of Sept. 11, who ordered all teams to play \"God Bless America,\" injecting a political statement into the games.

\"I don't honestly think that politicizes the issue,\" Selig said, calling the playing of the anthem a matter of respect. \"After all, we do have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.\"

With all due respect to Selig, once \"God Bless America\" became a political statement, a player like Delgado became free to express his own political views.

But in other parts of America, Delgado is being called all sorts of names. From the Toronto Star.

QUOTE
Delgado's comments sparked debate for days on Sporting News Radio in the U.S., where he was criticized by former Jays manager Buck Martinez and ex big-league pitcher Bert Blyleven. It was also a hot topic on the nationally-syndicated Jim Rome Show.
. . .
But former NFL all-pro defensive lineman Bill Maas blasted Delgado's stance as \"un-American\" on his Kansas City radio show and criticized him as hypocritical for accepting a paycheque in U.S. dollars — a common theme espoused by opponents of Delgado's views.
. . .
But in the Mesabi Daily News in Virginia, Minn., columnist Jimmy Lane had harsh words for Delgado.

\"I'll tell you what, Carlos. I'll bet it doesn't bother you to walk into a bank on Friday afternoon and hear the song playing when you cash your very large paycheck, does it? You make me sick, Delgado.\"

An article titled \"Don't Stand For It\" in Metro Pulse, a lifestyle magazine based in Knoxville, Tenn., where Delgado once played Double A ball, suggested baseball should rebuke the slugger.

\"Delgado saw a cause and has used his fame to help effect change,\" writer Tony Basilo opined. \"But now, he's misusing that platform, disgracing the heritage of the very fans that gave him his bully pulpit in the first place.\"
. . .
Taking a stand against U.S. foreign policy is rare among high-profile athletes and often comes at a price.

Muhammad Ali was stripped of his heavyweight title in the 1960s after refusing to serve in Vietnam. Basketball player Craig Hodges was blackballed from the NBA after protesting the Gulf War during a 1991 visit to the White House with the champion Chicago Bulls.

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf of the Denver Nuggets was booed repeatedly and soon found himself out of the NBA after refusing to stand for the \"Star Spangled Banner\" in 1998. And Canadian-born Dallas Mavericks forward Steve Nash was criticized last year when he said of the invasion of Iraq: \"I think it's really unfortunate in the year 2003 that we're still using violence as a means of conflict resolution.\"

This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2010 Invision Power Services, Inc.