In this state, it really is irrelevant if you're a Democrat or a Republican. Both are almost indistinguishable when you come down to it. Both are concerned with their own power and survival. Hell, being indicted, convicted, sent to prison, released, then re-elected has become the standard way of life around these parts.

Democrats and their corrupt cronies have for years ruled Cook County and its main city, Chicago. Meanwhile, Former Governor George "Lyin'" Ryan and his cronies ruled in Springfield, our capital.

Now that the Democrats run EVERYthing in this increasingly socialistic state, you'd think they would sign on to Demoractic Governor Blagojevich's ethics reforms. Ha! Get real. This is Illinois, a state that wrote the book on graft and corruption.

To his credit, Gov. Blago has pushed for an ethics reform bill to be passed into law by the Illinois General Assembly. Among other things, Blago wanted to end the days of corruption and typical shenanigans, including one of his biggest pet peeves: State employees politicking and campaigning and fundraising on state time.

This pressure-causing activity is what led to the now infamous scandal that surrounded George Ryan when he was Illinois' secretary of state. Dozens of people were convicted in that scandal. Because state employees were pressured to campaign for their boss Ryan, to raise funds for him, to get others to vote for him--all on state time--bribery, theft, and other illegalities resulted.

Blago got the legislature to pass an ethics bill in the spring session. However, the legislature rejected this major provision, and the idiots even watered down every other key reform requested by Gov. Blago. When the bill landed on his desk, he used his amendatory veto powers to reinstate all these provisions.

Well, Tuesday the Illinois House rejected these changes as they overrode his veto, thereby stripping the reforms from the bill. As usual, legislators refused to comment, or most of them did. As one unnamed legislator said, "The governor has a lot to learn how things get done in Illinois."

Apparently he does.

Gov Blago is not clean either. He takes his orders from Da Mayor and his father in law. Also, he is too busy with fundraising activities out in California for his possible 2008 presidential bid.

MIB - You bitch so much about Ill. and how corrupt it is, why do you stay there if it's so awful?

Let me guess, you're "working within" to change
right?

Well, I'll tell you, I'm here because of a job, but the other state I live in also is well known for corruption, so what can you do? Move to Vermont?

Plus, as MIB probably would attest, Chicago is here--it's one of the best cities in the US by many measures. Half the time you can almost forget you're in Daleynois(e), until you see all those giant planters and glance down at a newspaper box or turn on the TV and hear about his newest outrage....

A.) It's not awful. Just needs some fixing. Only the weather is awful 364 days of the year (at least in the northeastern part of this state).

B.) The politics is FUN, FUN, FUN here. No other state in the nation is as political as Illinois is. Sure, several others have their shenanigans, but Illinois reigns surpreme in that department. Did you know that Illinois has more seats/levels of government than any other state? More than CA., NY, or TX. for that matter. There are over 12,000 levels of government in this state. The next closest one has something like 5000-6000.

C.) I am, indeed, working to change the state, Raze. At night, I don my superhero outfit as defender of the Constitution, both federal and
state, and I scour the land...

Lastly, as fantomas says, Chicago is a wonderful city. I'm privileged to have been all over this country of ours, loving many places and cities, but Chicago will always be tops in my book.

FYI: Interesting historical fact: There are 50 members of the Chicago City Council (50 aldermen). Exactly one half of this number has been convicted over the last several years. Some have even been elected back to their original office after serving their time. Unbelievable.

MIB, why do you hate America?

I haven't been to Chicago in thirty years. As dumb as I was back then, I had no idea that it was well known for architecture. Now, I've got the AIA pocket guide to Chicago's buildings of interest. I'd take it me if it seemed I'd ever be going back.

[ November 05, 2003, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: twin58 ]

I don't hate anybody. It's the Left, the so-called guardians of tolerance, who truly hate. Hypocrites they all are.

Hate is a powerful word, a strong word, one that I choose not to apply in my life toward anyone or anything (well, OK, toward anyONE truthfully--one can "hate" a thing without a problem, since that's referring to an inanimate object incapable of feelings).

Here on this board you have people hoping for the deaths of others, from the idiot gay bigot "Rev. Felch" (yes, yes, I know the correct spelling of the guy's name) to the Pope or others. There may be people whom I find offensive, insulting, spiteful, even downright despicable; but I don't "hate" any of them. Sadly, this can't be said about many on the Left.

Anyway, Chicago is great for architecture. When you're in town, be sure to take the Chicago River architectural boat tour. It's an hourlong ride on the Chicago River, taking you through the city and past its varying buildings.

And they all have their own "police" forces, presumably with arrest powers. The Forest Preserve District has its own (who can be seen everywhere but in the preserves between opening and closing times), the Water Reclamation District has its own (to guard the sewage plants), the Commerce Commission has its own ... even the secretary of state's office has its own. It's a wonder there's any crime in the state at all! Oh wait, they can't arrest their own bosses.

Oh, and I think the "Why do you hate" posts were satirizing the love-it-or-leave-it posts that seem to greet anybody who criticizes the feds.

MIB:

I don't think that Illinois and Chicago are alone in the USA. I have lived four years in Louisiana, with its corrupt state governors - remember Edwards? grin. New Orleans is quite a political place.

Maryland once had a Governor who was elected as Vice President of the USA - only to be removed because of state corruption. Agnew! It seems that Montgomery County (near DC) is the cleanest county of the entire state!

Of course, who can forget Mayor Marion Barry of Washington D.C.? The government of D.C. is so bad that Congress has to limit its home rule powers to keep it in check!

So I think that Illinois and Chicago aren't that unique!

What can we do? We can't vote to throw out these rascals. As MIB said before, they keep coming back to the pig trough!

Any ideas for reform, comrades?

Mikestead

The only way for Illinois to clear up things is for a state constitutional convention that would rewrite the constitution and eliminate all the layers of bureaucracy. If some politician could make an argument to the disenfranchised urbanites, middle class suburbanites not on the graft-and-giveaway dole and downstaters, Illinois could take care of this. But as it is now, the damned governor is controlled by the mayor, and everyone, at all the different layers, is getting all kinds of goodies for their friends and family members. And to think, people in Philadelphia are worked up about their mayor trying to help his brother!

What's true, though, is that corruption is commonplace all over the US. Hudson County, New Jersey, was long known for being the place where the dead voted--and more than once each election. The most recent Hudson County exec, Bob Janiszewski, was yet another cog in a long corruption wheel--only he wore a wire and now other pols and Hudson River developers are falling as well. In fact, in New Jersey Republicans AND Democrats steal when they can--one of the last GOP US Senate candidates, Treffinger, had his office raided during the buildup to the election.

Massachusetts also long had a rep for these things, and then there was Rhode Island...well, the popular mayor of Providence was finally carted off the jail, after a multi-year operation finally brought him down.

And of course we've had financial messes at the highest levels too. Do the names Ulysses S. Grant (Republican) or Warren G. Harding (Republican) ring any bells?

MIB, I just don't get you. We have right-wingers spewing HATE on a daily basis, HATE AT GAYS and Muslims and others, and yet you find a way to throw it onto the Left. What Leftists are you talking about? Who? Say what you will about peoples' feelings about W, no one has used the courts and $50 million our tax dollars to pry into the numerous shenanigans he's been up to. And he's not even cooperating with GOPers who're trying to conduct legitimate investigations into the 9/11 failures or the treasonous leaking of a CIA agent's name. The Right easily takes the cake on this one.

Fantomas, Illinois isn't going to get a constitutional convention, mainly because the people in power won't permit it to go forward. I would be all in favor of retooling this state's government, but its composition was based on ensuring the cronies in power will stay that way.

Even our own Supreme Court isn't above the fray. Example: Gov. Blago vetoed a bill that would have permitted the annual automatic cost of living adjustment increases to go into effect for all state officials. This was not a veto of a pay raise; rather, it was the usual automatic COLA increase. Admittedly, the amount isn't that much, but because of Illinois' severe budget crunch, Gov. Blago didn't believe spending the money was a good idea. OK, no problems with that thinking.

Well, unbelievably, the Illinois Supreme Court unilaterally ordered the governor to approve the COLA increases for the high court. Now, let me be clear on this explanation. The IL. Supreme Court, with no case brought before it, no appeal to it, acted out of the blue on its own, issuing an order to the governor to institute the COLA increases for members of the IL. high court. This is an unprecedented act of judicial activism. The court has no authority to unilaterally order other state constitutional officers to do something if such officers are not challenged via a plea to the case.

Fortunately, as a result of public uproar and excoriating editorials by the state's newspapers, the IL. high court did an about-face and withdrew its order. Interestingly, had they not done that, it would have created quite a quagmire for Illinois' Attorney General, who would have found herself caught in the middle of a battle between two branches of Illinois' government.

BTW, fantomas, I find the hatred by right-wingers no less disgusting than hatred by left-wingers. What bothers me more, however, is that those right-wing nutjobs like Falwell, Robertson, et. al. are known to be that way. However, the Left constantly preaches tolerance, or acceptance, or understanding, but if you're someone who happens to not conform to the Left's preferances, whoa! You cannot be accepted. Indeed, you are often outcast and almost always vilified with an intense hatred.

[ November 05, 2003, 08:22 PM: Message edited by: MIB ]

Let me see here. The first 210 years of so of our country's history...it was okay for religious groups and others no matter who they were affilitated with to openly make life for gay people worse in the name of religion. The last 20 years or so people speak out about how wrong it is and now we are the intolerant ones...Accoring to my math, you have about 190 years or so before you can make such claims against those who fight for the rights of gay and lesbian people to be treated equally and fairly in this country. Those who would use religion and Jesus's name to promote bigotry would not know Christianity if it bit them in the butt.

Case in point: Fred Phelps (from another thread).

OK, I hate it--oh, alright, I "intensely dislike" it--when strangers on a message board try to psychoanalyze me, but I'm going to have a stab here. Sorry in advance.

MIB, were you once a lefty or lean left? As your views drifted rightward, I'm guessing you got grief for that (and well you should have! ). Mix in your devout Catholicism and you're now supporting two bete noire's of a lot of gay men. I'd imagine you just got sick and tired of defending yourself.

Am I close? In the ballpark? In the upper deck? The parking lot? The city borders?

There used to be a guy on this board who went by the name of BosoxRudy. Staunch Republican and Catholic. His constant whine was "Gay Victimization". On some thread or other, he claimed that "Gay victimization has done more harm to gay men than Catholicism/Christianity" (I can't remember which and I don't feel like digging it up in the archive). That's a total absurd statement, of course, and he was roundly shouted down for it.

I write that because your attempt at equivalency between the lefty tendency to be doctranaire to ridiculous lengths and the quantifiable, well-documented damage done to gays and lesbians by the far right/Christian right in this country is flawed, big time.

Well, I'm not THAT devout. I wish I was more so, but I am not. I really should go to Mass more often than I do. Too bad, since I really do feel good when I come out of Church every sunday.

Jim, as I've said before, I "hate" when so-called "Christian" rightists spew their venemous vile against gays or anyone else for that matter. I have never agreed with their twisted line of thinking on a lot of things. Plus, I do not like them because they tend to be anti-Catholic to the core. So, don't lump me into the group who refuses to call these idiots on the carpet.

Now, back to the topic of this thread--Illinois' typical politics.

But a lot of the Christian "rightists" ARE Roman Catholics, like: Pat Buchanan, Rick Santorum, Phyllis Schlafly, James Kirkpartrick (isn't that his name), Cardinal O'Connor, Cardinal Egan, Cardinal Mahoney, the anti-gay creep cardinal of Philadelphia, the vile abomination himself cardinal Law-less, etc. In fact, the whole hierachy (except McCarrick and the new archbishop of Boston, who wasn't elevated by that hypocrite pope) should quit just for their execrable failure to protect children--is that hateful behavior or what? What leftists have damaged or allowed to be damaged so many young people? These creeps were basically allowing pedophilia and sex rings to flourish under their watch!

And then there are the scary extreme right-wing Catholic types who've slaughtered lots of people, like the former generals of Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay (Strasser), Chile (Pinochet), Argentina, Guatemala, etc. And they have the support of good old Opus Dei, the pope's favorite order. (I went to Opus Dei classes as a youth, they're an industrious crew--and rich.)

Back to this country: the doctrinaire leftists in general are not condemning people anywhere near as vehemently or derangedly as the likes of Falwell, Phelps, Robertson, Ashcroft, Schlafly, Lott, Delay, Nickles, Norquist, Clegg, Richard Mellon Scaife (funding large scale attacks on the president, etc.), etc. These people are waaaayyyyy off the hook. Say what you will about Chomsky or Sontag or even a non-thinker like Michael Moore, they're not fomenting hate like these folks!

[ November 06, 2003, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

Hardly. There are several fools who are, indeed, Catholic, but the Christian Right to whom I refer and this board's members generally allude is comprised of the Fundamentalists, usually Baptist or other southern-based or related churches. (No offense intended toward Baptists in general, BTW.)

Robertson, Falwell, Felch, et. al. are anti-Catholic and not admired or respected by MIB.

[ November 06, 2003, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: MIB ]

I assume you mean Grover, the anti-tax zealot, not John, the sex-scandalized lame-duck mayor of Milwaukee. :confused:

IT'S AN ORGY! IL. Governor calls legislators "drunken sailors."

This is rather funny:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-leg071.htm

[ November 08, 2003, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: MIB ]

Speaking of Democrats and GOPers, I went to a fundraiser in a northern Chicago suburb for Barack Obama last night. He ought to be the next U.S. Senator from Illinois. Very, very impressive IN his progressiveness, and not an insincere rich guy who was casting about and pandering. He's up against the Illinois Democratic machine, and a megamillionaire who's got lots of gay support, and a Democratic Party hack who has said she'd basically be a Democrat-lite. AND then if he won the primary he'd have to face whomever the GOP nominates.

I think he could still win it all. He'll have to win most of Chicago (which could split between him and Hynes), and the suburbs ringing Chicago. The 35,000 votes from all black East Saint Louis wouldn't hurt either. And then he could make history as the first black male Democrat elected to the US senate since Reconstruction and the first elected in the 21st century, which would also give Illinois a singular distinction in US history.

Yes, Grover, the anti-tax zealot, who's got W's ear (and nose and everything else).

I see the point you're making, but I also don't think you should dismiss out of hand the fact that many of the hard right-wingers in US public life, in the media, in Congress, etc., are Roman Catholic.

I know people like to think of RC right-wingers as not as extreme as Robertson, etc., Phyllis Schlafly, Rick Santorum, Pat Buchanan, Mother Angelica, the Gibsons, the Domino's Pizza founder, William F. Buckley, Jr., Alan Keyes, Lind Chavez, and their ilk are right up there. Schlafly even defeated a constitutional amendment, while Buchanan and Keyes have run for the presidency several times.

[ November 16, 2003, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

Of course there are kooks in every group, including among Roman Catholics. I, for one, am embarrassed that Buchanan is a Catholic. However, I just look at him as an example of extremism common among every religion/organization/group etc.

It's the rabid so-called "Fundamentalists" who do more damage to Christianity than a few extreme Catholics do.

BTW, good luck to your guy Obama. He's up against a formidable force, the Democratic Machine.

Tee hee. Shrub almost not on IL ballot. Not that it matters, he's not going to win there, but still.

I swear it! Illinois politicians are all idiots!