I used to think I was such as hard core liberal but I'm finding myself moving more and more towards the middle as I get older and read more and more rants from the leftists. I just think that the vast majority of them are full of shit.

Hell, I'm supporting Bob Graham for president. Never thought I'd be doing that but the more I study his positions, the more I agree with him. I really thought I'd be supporting Dean or Kerry but I believe that they're candidates in the mode of Dukakis and Mondale and will get crushed by Bush. I really think that Graham will win.

Anyone else finding that this is happening to them?

I live in DC and feel the same way and I am as liberal as they come. I think that perhaps Kerry can beat Bush but it will be a battle. I think Gephardt can beat Bush easily.However, Graham is the one that my liberal friends and I are watching.
Not many people realize that he comes from the same graham family that owns The Washington Post.
Not many other candidates can say that. Also Graham would really give "Dubya" fights in Florida too. I would love to see it happen.

I'm turning 41 this month and I'm not becoming the least bit more conservative. When the basic tactic of a very sizable majority of the right wing is to demonize and insult and bully anyone who opposes them, nothing they say is of interest to me.

Omigod.....you GO, Joe in Philly!

While I reserve the right to make up my mind each election (out of my own education [at 37], and wanting to maintain an open mind, I have many definite opinions about the treatment of human beings, especially here in my own country.

[ April 11, 2003, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: bluebird48234 ]

I agree and have to add that the left wing is just as good as the right wing as insulting others who don't hold the same views.

I post on another board which is a liberal/left board and it really seems that if you hold a dissenting view, some of them will come after you without mercy.

Not me. I will stay a tried and true Demo liberal, without bashing the religious right, like they do to us/me. I have alot of strong issues I believe in, just like they have theirs. This is America folks. Love it or leave it. wink

I'm actually more liberal than ever. One reason is that, thanks to the Internet, I'm better informed and have more research tools at my fingertips.

I saw this odd little documentary last night about this men's chorus in a small fishing village in Norway. They travel to Murmansk to perform and along the way come across this 10 story or so monument to the war dead. Well, this one guy just goes off on a rant about how great the Soviet Union was and he gets roundly mocked and scorned. He's the kind of leftie that's stuck in 1968, with their notions of Revolution (But if you go carryin' pictures of Chairman Mao/you ain't gonna make it with anyone, anyhow); it's as if time has passed him by. Sort of like how the hard right wishes it was 1952 again.

One thing that I've noticed recently is that I've become completely cynical about the political process. For the first time since I got the vote in 1978, I didn't vote in an important election (the Los Angeles City mayoral race) because the guy I wanted to win had no hope and I just thought "f**k it, I'm tired, I wanna go home and listen to CD's, I don't feel like driving to the polling place". Awful, awful, awful.

I'll vote for whatever sentient being the Democrats throw out in 2004 but that is more a "Get the Bushites out NOW" vote rather than any great enthusiasm for any particular candidate. I'm kind of stuck in a familiar dilemma: I can't stand the Republicans but I'm not a great fan of the Democrats either; I'd vote Libertarian or Green but they have no chance of doing anything but they don't have that chance because I (and others in the same mindset) don't vote for them.

One thing that's not changed is my total, complete, utter cynicism about people in general. As Sartre wrote: Hell is other people.

[ April 11, 2003, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

The longer I live in the U.S., the further to the left I drift. I actually find the secular right even scarier than the religious right in this country.

I agree -- I'm going further and further in the progressive direction. When I was a teenager, I supported the likes of Bill Clay and Dick Gephardt; I shilled out in the cold of Boston Common for Clinton in 1992, and regretted it a year later when he began his rightward march to triangulate the Democrats.

The old Left is politically dead in this country; very few of those elected in Congress represent them, and despite the endless braying about the Far Left, these people have ZERO political power. There are no Communist or Socialists to speak of at the upper reaches of our government, which is quite different from the early 20th century. In fact, Bernie Sanders, the Socialist independent, basically votes along the lines of Teddy Kennedy (that is, on the left and not far left).

The old AND new Right, however, have legions supporting their cause. The Christian extremists, the neoconservatives, the neo-Confederates, and what have you--except for the isolationist Right of Buchananites--swell the halls of Congress and the White House. I have seen the danger these people cause and their shameless aims, which are to empower and enrich themselves at the expense of the rest of the country and the world. I can't support them, and will support people from any party--Green, Democrat, Republican, you name it--who counter them.

Voted for Clinton...twice (ouch!)

And now I want to see welfare abolished and the IRS disbanded. How's that for a polarity shift?

Also moving far to the left - Joe in Philly is right on -- the right wingers are so closed minded that they attack anyone who even remotely disagrees with them. Also appreciate the comment that some on the left have the same mentality.

I am supporting Dean although I think he is unelectable. Bob Graham is a solid left leaning moderate with an excellent record as Governor and Senator. He is the one Democrat who speaks with authority on national security issues. If Al Gore had selected him as his running mate (ok, and/or if he would have carried his own State) we wouldn't be saddled with W.

All of that said, I don't have a real sense of where Graham stands on gay and lesbian issues. Obviously, a huge factor for most of us.

When I was young I considered myself a liberal, but it was more a kneejerk rebellion to the politics of my parents. As I've gotten older and experienced more of the world, I've gotten much wiser and become a solid Republican. I'm amused by JIP's words, since the one person I see on these board's who tosses around words like "pathetic," "losers" and "morons" regularly when referring to people with opposing viewpoints is very definitely not a rightwinger. Which goes to show there are folks of questionable intellect on both sides of the political spectrum.

Welfare was pretty much abolished, by Clinton and the Republican Congress (compared to the amount of grotesque giveaways major corporations and the rich get, this was always just an ideological hobbyhorse anyways).

The IRS has been so seriously defanged it barely touches the rich. Where have you been? I thought the destruction of the UN and war against France were next on the Right Wing docket?

[ April 14, 2003, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

Then you're reading selectively. Ump25, William, MIB, PhillyFan and others on the right frequently use or have used these or similarly insulting terms, not only about Clinton or the Democrats, but about other POSTERS.

This may have been the case; Gore might have won Florida outright and then we'd not have experienced the mess in October 2000.

I saw the Democrats in a recent debate on CSPAN. Graham wasn't one of the more impressive of the crew, I can tell you. He seemed not really sure of what to say, and might be eaten alive by Bush's folksiness in a debate. Far and away the most impressive three were Dean, Edwards and Gephardt. Kerry comes across as aloof, highly thoughtful, deliberative, sort of like a president...of France.

I dont think i've called you pathetic... yet...

bush footman = pathetic

A good solid republican like Jesse Helms, Tom DeLay, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson ... good job!

LMAO razor!

Fantamos - I completely agree with you on the Debate -- I watched the same program. The only difference is that I thought However, I thought Edwards seemed too much like a televangelist. Did you happen to notice that after he spoke (I think the closing remarks) the camera panned to the audience - he received lukewarm response and some negative reactions. I thought Graham looked older and tired but remember he just had heart surgery - I read an article on Sunday where the writer said that Graham was "not on his game".

Should be interesting to see what develops as the race progresses.