It appears that Dino Rossi ® will win the Governors race. After a recount he led Gregoire (D) by a mere 42 points. Gregoire has the option to order a hand recount,in any given county(ies) and if that changes the outcome, there will be a statewide recount. At this point I am beginning to feel like she should give it up. Then to top things off, it appears Dems. led to her downfall. About 500 of them hand wrote the name of Ron Simms (D) her opponent in the primary!! Which of course contributed to her downfall. I know nothing about Mr. Rossi. No idea of his stance on issues as it relates to gay people. I guess we will have to wait and see, and keep our fingers crossed.

"About 500 of them hand wrote the name of Ron Simms (D) her opponent in the primary!!"

Well, weren't they the clever ones?

A case where every vote counts.

~Adam

I understand that Alice Cooper recieved a total of 2 votes, and God 2 votes as well. These were write ins.

Did our Heavenly Father have someone write His name in, or did He just will it to be so on those two ballots? And don't you think He'd be pissed that only 2 folks wrote in His name?

How about the Son of God? Does He not feel shortchanged in this?

LOL, MIB! "Look out Seattle, meteors, tidal waves and tornadoes inbound!" And don't forget that we're talking Trinity here, you know, like the Courts of Appeals. In legal terms, God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are "conflated" into One. But just try serving Them with process!

WOW! The Dems are claiming victory after the hand recount by 8 votes.

I suspect the lawsuits will continue. eek!

Has the Supreme Court voted yet?
The only votes that count.

Interesting that the GOP, which spent a great deal of time bashing lawyers this year, hires an army of them to steal elections.

Yes indeedy, the big headlines this morning in the Spokane Spokesman Review are that if all holds, and its no certainty at all, but as of now it appears, and that is the key word, it appears that Gregoire may win by 8 votes. Of course if this stands, the Repugs. will file yet another lawsuit,in the State Surpeme Court, as they do not want all votes counted. They didn't say a word, when additional ballots were found in 3 other counties in Wash. State as they gave Rossi ® the lead, but if this count in King County holds up, off to court we go!! They are trying to have their cake and eat it too, how typical!
At 3:30pm (pst) this afternoon, the recount in King County will officially release their results. Go Christine Go!!!!

[ December 22, 2004, 07:32 AM: Message edited by: puckman1 ]

No matter who wins, any ballot not originally counted by the election deadline must not be "added" later. This includes so-called "found" ballots. Election day is on a specific date, and it has deadlines by which a ballot must be cast. To suddenly claim ballots were later found and should be added to a recount is blatantly illegal. It amounts to extending the election past the timeframe set by law.

A recount is just that--counting again of ballots already cast and counted--not adding to the count ballots not originally counted. The Democrats, masters of election thievery and the original authors of how to steal elections (because anyone voting for someone not a Democrat is...well...not "right"), will stop at nothing to get what they want.

This from the most rigid, partisan poster on Outsports

Merry Christmas Veritas!

Your comments MIB about Democratic theivery is just too funny. Sorry, but the thieves here in Washington State are the Repuglicans. Whenever the recount isn't going the way they want, or planned, what do they do? They sue...sue...sue...As I said earlier, Rossi had no problemo with some extra ballots found in 3 counties that went heavily for him, but suddenly ballots turn up in King County that were somehow missed the first time, and Rossi and the Repugs. are throwing a hissy fit. Oh, the hypocrisy!!

[ February 20, 2005, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: RCKSoniK ]

Rockn' that works for me! wink

"Let the votes be counted, unless they're Republican votes!"

-- Democratic motto

"Let the votes be counted, but only if they give us victory!"

-- Democratic motto #2

Only those votes originally cast should be counted or recounted, and whoever is the victor is the victor, whether it be a Democrat or Republican. I don't care who wins this race; I just want to see the law followed and not ignored like it so often is when the Democrats don't like it.

Oh, Merry Christmas to Veritas as well, mr. puckman/Razor/insert leftist moniker here.

[ December 22, 2004, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: MIB ]

The latest news is that Gregoire now holds a 10 vote lead over Rossi after the King County recount. But it has to be certified, as there are still several hundred ballots left to count. The Wash. State Supreme Court ruled that every vote must be counted. Its not the voters' fault that some election officials missed counting or misplaced their ballots way back on Nov. 2nd. Their voice must be heard.

Uh huh. Voices must be heard as long as it takes to ensure a Democrat's victory. If ballots weren't included on election day, they shouldn't be included later. Voters don't get a month or more in which to cast their ballots. Only votes that were cast and counted should be recounted. Heck, the word "recount" itself means to count again. If something wasn't counted the first time around, it cannot be counted "again."

If Gregoire is the winner via a recount involving the original ballots, then she's the winner. Same goes for Rossi.

Though I agree with you that those ballots only now being counted for the first time cannot be considered part of a recount, I disagree with your premise that these overlooked/misplaced ballots shouldn't be taken into account at all. The voters cast their ballots according to the law and deserve to have their votes tallied. If Washington officials called what is happening now the "official count," rather than a recount, would you have problems with the process?

~Adam

Well, \"Judge\", a unanimous Washington Supreme court, relying on state law and prior caselaw ruled otherwise. Why don't you read the opinion of the court before you spout off on the legality of the decision? Maybe you could get one of your clerks to brief it for you.

Anyway, your argument was raised by the Republican lawyers, and was specifically rejected by the court.

Stop the presses -- the Democrat's lead is now up 25% to a margin of 10 votes! eek!

I don't know this Justice Susan Owens...but I love her!!!

Where here is the latest from my Spokane Spokesman-Review this morning. The Repugs. are still studying their options, but if the recount holds up with Gregoire winning, Rossi may call for a runoff....stay tuned, this one still isn't over yet.

If voters cast their ballots when they were supposed to, why weren't they counted when they were supposed to have been counted? What, exactly, is a "found" ballot? That's where the potential for fraud exists. If a ballot was cast and counted, it should be part of the recount. If it wasn't cast and wasn't counted originally, then it shouldn't be tallied.

Neither side should be permitted to try and add votes to their count.

Coming from some who emphatically said Florida would go Kerry ("mark my words" or something to that effect) has no more credibility here. You're finished. Go back to your tropical futon or whatever you surfers sleep on.

As far as what the WA. Supreme Court said--so? Does it make it right to suddenly add votes to a count? If a vote wasn't cast and wasn't counted in the first--or second tally--it shouldn't be considered in the third, fourth, etc. tally--by either side.

actually, "cast and counted" is two arguments. it is my understanding that these votes were, in fact, cast when they were supposed to be. but an election official -- and election officials are often partisan hacks -- INCORRECTLY ruled that these ballots should not be counted. so, they were cast, but not counted in the first tally. they are not found or new at all.

the washington supreme court is exactly correct to override the incorrect decision to exclude, because the ballots had been properly cast. otherwise, any election official could rule on election day, based on some made-up rule, that ballots were to be excluded with the certainty that the decision won't be reviewed.

it is not only proper for the courts to make this ruling, it is their role -- to redress legal wrongs at lower levels.

The recount is over, it is not certified yet, but will be next Thursday, but, as of now with 100% of the recount done Gregoire wins/leads by 120 votes. She and outgoing Gov. Locke are going to hold a news conference at 6:30pm, my time.

The votes were legally cast. They were just not counted. Here's the article form today's Seattle Times. Both sides make me sick. Just shut the hell up, let them count the votes and whoever has the most votes wins. I hate that it always has to come down to litigation.

Official Result?

If the valid recount shows Gregoire the winner, Rossi ought to do the honorable thing and concede. It doesn't matter that a Democrat wouldn't do that, instead preferring to find any way to claim a victory. Rossi ought to move on and not lower himself to the level of his opposing party.

HA! Pot . . .kettle . . .you know the story, don't ya, "JUDGE"?

Best laugh I've had in a long time. Thanks for the grins, Your Honor.

Oh please MIB. I listened to Gregoire's speech last night. Know what she said? If after the hand recount tally, and final results gave Rossi the true lead that he has been claiming, that she would accept it, even if it was by just a few of votes, and concede the election to Dino Rossi. Further, she said she was not going to call Dino Rossi and ask for him to concede either. Class act this Christine Gregoire. She has not yet claimed herself the victor yet,just that she won the hand recount, as the end results need to be certified. The Repugs. are going to possibly call for yet another vote.

[ December 24, 2004, 07:47 AM: Message edited by: puckman1 ]

Why not? Didn't you just say above that every vote should be counted? Are you changing your mind?

Oh! The hypocrisy!

Rossi lost, so he should concede. Show some honor. Maybe the Dems will learn from that. Nah! Ain't gonna happen.

Did you say something, oh worthless soothsayer? Didn't think so.

Go have another appletini. You've been hitting them hard, haven't you?

No MIB, again youre wrong. The hypocrits here are the Repugs. who now want the same thing done now, that they were against a week ago. And if you don't believe me then get on a fast plane come out here and see for yourself. For someone who claims he is an "independant", you sure lean right. Can you deny this????

Let's see...Rev. Extortionist (a.k.a. Jesse Jackson) can sue to overturn an Ohio election, where Bush won by some 119,000 votes or more, and Dems join in that ridiculous fight. Republicans consider doing the same in WA. and Dems have a conniption fit.

Oh! The hypocrisy!

Rossi should realize he's lost, even if it was by rules changed since election day. That's the only problem I have with this whole thing. Rules that weren't in existence on November 2nd were suddenly rewritten to benefit Gregoire, who would've won by a mere 10 votes or so and not a couple hundred.

Wow, you mean they actually counted all the votes...I thought that was an antiquated notion.

Rossi should walk away quickly--and realize that the battle was lost but the war might, indeed, be won. Sen. Cantwell, not very popular and in deep debt for her 2006 re-election, is facing a very tough race. Rossi has been urged to forget about the governor's battle and concentrate on the Senate seat in 2006, where Democratic insiders fear he would easily beat Cantwell.

Lliberals and others here might be careful what they wish for with respect to this gubernatorial race, for his victory could increase the Republicans numbers in the Senate.

You mean you haven't learned the Democratic mantra: "Keep counting all the votes until our candidate wins."

Daley wrote this creed decades ago, and it's been followed religiously by Dems nationwide ever since.

Maybe it's because I'm not American but I can't understand why these votes, if they were were casted, shouldn't be counted.
In a democracy all votes are usually counted, not only a part of them.

[ December 28, 2004, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: andrea ]

Yes, indeed the Repugs. need to be very cafeful what they wish for. They are now pushing for any "extra" ballots in any county across the State that were maybe missed the first 2-3 recounts. My understanding is there are no more ballots remaining that have not been missed or tallied or otherwise, and it seems the Repugs. are on a fishing mission here. The voters of Washington State are just about at their limit as I type this, and its being said the Governor, whoever he or she is, will not have much clout in the new legislative session. This debacle needs to come to an end, and NOW!

Indeed. If the GOP is to have any hope in the 2006 senatorial race, they ought to call it quits with respect to the gubernatorial race and not leave such a bad taste in the mouths of WA. voters, many of whom will remember this in 2006.

Oh, look, I take a few days off the board to visit family and friends and find that nothing changes when I return - MIB is contending all Democrats are evil, lying, unethical scum - thanks for the information, I'm now going to switch my allegiance to the GOP immediately - after all, ALL GOP politicians are honest, right? (BTW, the ex-governor of Connecticut just pled guilty to tax fraud, guess what party he belongs to?)

By Mssr. MIB's thinking, all gay people should be barred from any and all responsible jobs, housing, the military, and legal relationships, because we're all tweaked-out circuit boys who are trying to destroy society. Of course, that allegedly would include MIB, so I'm sure he rejects that argument.

As for the Washington recount, I have no idea if the legal arguments are valid on one side or the other. Not being a lawyer, or otherwise trained in the legal, profession, I don't claim such expertise. Apparently not all the members of this board follow the same advice - we seem to have at least one legal pretender in our midst.

What the voters are going to remember in '06 MIB, is that they had a chance to change direction from the current mess we are in,they blew it, and that they can begin to make things change, as in get rid of the Repugs. whenever/wherever possible, thats what I think is going to happen. Bring on 2006!

Not if Cantwell continues her downward spiral, puck. She's got 2 years to get herself out of her sizeable debt AND raise some bucks for what's going to be a multi-million dollar senatorial campaign. If Rossi bows out of this gracefully, he will be well ahead of others in the race to unseat Cantwell in 2006.

Not in the United States of America. Only a portion of the votes are counted in any given election. Depending on whether it's a local, municipal, statewide or federal election, and where the voting occurs, a tiny portion to a sizable portion will be disqualified, lost, misplaced, etc. This does not include voter harassment, intimidation (which the current cancer-ridden head of the U.S. Supreme Court engaged in as a young man in Arizona), and other poll-related shenanigans. The higher the percentage of poor people, Native Americans, African-Americans, or Latinos, the greater the likelihood that votes will go missing, voters will incur harassment and intimidation, the voting equipment will be faulty, precincts will suddenly change, and people may find themselves listed as ineligible for unexplainable reasons. (This is not even a party-related problem; in most elections in New York City, for example, there are voting problems and lost votes in at least 1-2 of the boroughs even if the Democrats OR Republicans triumph by a large margin.)

I believe that they hold cleaner and fairer federal elections in India, South Africa, Hungary, South Korea, Brazil, and now, from all indications, Ukraine! (Go Yushchenko!)

Oh, good Lord! Not another one of these tired, old, unproven, and baseless claims.

It really is getting to be a broken record, decades old and still without actual proof. Brother!

Here is an interesting site that gives information about voting rates and turnout worldwide.

Systems vary of course, but I find it interesting that the USA and Canada seem to have generally lower voting rates than Europe.

On quick perusal, the only figure that jumps out at me is the total lack of "invalid" votes in the USA. It is hard to believe we are "perfect".

You mean like "Saddam was an imminent threat"? Or that he had "weapons of mass destruction"? Or that we're "turning the corner" in the economy or in Iraq? Or that Saddam was linked to Al Qaeda? Or that we've disrupted the "A. Q. Khan network"? Or that Social Security is going "bankrupt"? Or that all it takes is "economics 101" to understand W's incoherent economic policies? Or that we're not blowing billions of dollars in Iraq? Or that the Republicans are the party of "personal responsibility," and "fiscal responsibility," and "less government"? I guess you know, since you're the "judge"....

ok, I can understand that for some reasons some votes could be invalidated.
But lost or misplaced?
How could that happened? In particlular the votes lost.

That's it. Dodge the issue and change the subject when you have no evidence to back up your original, and incorrect, assertion. Hijack the thread and turn it into a discussion on Bush. How typical.

I suppose the tsunami was Bush's fault, too, right?