"And what, pray tell, is so "heroic" about screwing oneself into oblivion through the ridiculously promiscuous lifestyle that most early gay victims of AIDS led - and too many more recent ones petulantly continue to"

Ew gmginsfo, don't get much do ya? Guess we know why. Lets just hope there is no such thing as Karma or you may end up with a not so honest bf who brings it on home to your sanctimonius, ignorant a$$.

I interpreted gmg's post as criticizing those who f**k around like rabbits with no concerns about the serious consequences they may incur and who then blame their consequences on others. Hey! You play, you pay, no matter what that entails.

I read this piece by one of the more prominent black right-wingers, and he does make some good points about how Raygun benefited the black middle class. Now, why don't you read the following articles, which put Raygun's actions towards poor blacks both in the US and across the ocean in better perspective.

Walter Fields's column on the North Star Network site
Joe Davidson on MSNBC
Philadelphia Tribune on Reaganomics
Lester Kenyatta Spence on Africana.com
Monterey Herald

Of course there are many more such pieces, but I'll leave you with these.
Now you are certainly smart enough to know that a person can contract HIV from one--just one--unprotected sexual encounter, as from a blood transfusion, and that even in a monogamous relationship, if one partner already has non-symptomatic HIV/AIDS she or he can pass it on to the other partner. Your obvious dislike (fear?) of gay sexual pleasure and gay liberation has been on evidence more than once, but even if one takes the most sex-negative approach short of celibacy, the fact remains that it is not multiple partners (gay or straight or whatever) that leads to HIV transmission and AIDS, but UNPROTECTED SEX. Most people didn't realize this back in the late 1970s and early 1980s, whether they were \"ridiculously promiscuous\" or merely having sex with only a few people. Either way, it was a dangerous dice roll, and Raygun's inactions and silence didn't help, but....

This is bunkum, as you know. He had to be forced to take responsiblity for his own shenanigans involving Iraq, Iran, Israel, and the Nicaraguan contras, and still tried to weasel out of admitting what was going on. (Though to be fair to him, perhaps he was suffering from the earliest stages of Alzheimers and just didn't know.) I guess the peasants slaughtered by the various death squads in Central America, like the gassed Iranians, the thousands slaughtered in Indonesia as Raygun supported Suharto, the people tortured and imprisoned by Ferdinand Marcos, Raygun's dear friend, etc., all were unwilling to take "personal responsibility for their actions," huh? But certainly Saddam Hussein was, as were P. W. Botha and the other apartheid leaders. Raygun never shed a tear for the victims of his awful policies, nor did he take personal responsibility for his own actions, in Hollywood, Sacramento or after. God rest his soul.

[ June 18, 2004, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

MIB, you read me right.

Gobar, spare me the pop psychobabble. Especially since I know this hard truth from the MANY friends I've lost and continue to lose to AIDS by their own admitted promiscuity. I lived in SF from '78 to '03 and know EXACTLY what the facts are from firsthand knowledge, including the rhetoric of denial that still plays a role in spreading the diesase.

FT, thanks for your recommendations, which I'll read and get back to you on - but first I've got a day of sailing on the Bay to attend to! :cool:

Why are so many flags still at half mast!?! Why? Why, I ask you?!

My hubby is in charge of the flag at the office building where he works, and the owners of the building directed him to lower it to half-staff only on the one Friday that was the official day of mourning. And at my workplace the flag was at half-staff only for the one week. But 2 1/2 weeks after Reagan's death, most other flags in the the KC area and throughout Kansas and Oklahoma (where I drove last weekend) are still at half mast!

Even the post office next to my office is still at half mast (Well, at this post office I think it's just laziness, because they normally leave the same flag up day and night and during storms, until the poor thing is just some tattered cloth hanging on a pole).

Are people just too damn lazy to go out and raise the flags back up, or are they conciously leaving them like that? When will they raise them? When? When, I ask you!?! Is it like this where you live?

Maybe we should just say the half-staff flags are in honor of the hundreds of soldiers killed in Iraq. There, that makes me feel better.

Whew, good to get that off my chest!

half mast....

Same here - northern Virginia. Guess they'll stay that way 'til the War on Terra® is over.

maxallen -- I believe the President ordered all flags to remain at half-mast for one month after Mr. Reagan's death.

Wow, a month seems like a bit much -- to the point that it diminishes the symbolism, in my eyes. I don't recall any other time in my life that flags were half-mast for a month. But I guess that explains it!

[ June 22, 2004, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: maxallen ]

Tell ya what maxy, as a solute to Carter when he kicks the can... we can all leave the flags sky high... like his inflation rates...

From what I have understood, Mr Carter was not a great President. But he used his experience and former position of the Presidency to become a rather influential peacemaker and international deal maker...I think that is how he will be remembered.

I think Bill Clinton will be remembered for his humor and down to earth but incredibly powerful persona. Who doesn't remember him laughing alongside Mr Putin in front of the press...a great speech maker and extremely intelligent.

I think George W. Bush will mostly be remembered for the post 9-11 strength and presence. That is the only time I really felt connected to his presence in the White House. He may be fondly remembered for being bungling and having poor speech abilities- but quite a bit more for having split the country and the controversy surrounding his entry into the Presidency, whether deserved or undeserved.

Not all us libs (as I even label myself) are completely uber-hateful of the Republican Party or this President. I think the above is a very fair portrayal of how the Presidents will be remembered.

Maxallen, did you just give your age away? I remember flags being half-mast for a month after the Kennedy assasination.

As an obese person who's just been declared a diabetic (though marginally so), I have to say denial and poor behavior choices are not the sole realm of AIDS patients and those who are HIV+. However, the the social stigma of our behavior is not nearly that those with AIDS still endure. If we condemn those who get ill because of poor choices in our society, then we should be uniform in our condemnation. And if we're willing to say "These people deserve neither our pity, nor our money," then insurance shouldn't be paying for my glucophage, my CPAP machine (sleep apnea can be traced to obesity), my repeated doctor's visits and tests. Yet billions of government dollars are spent annually on diabetes, obesity, lung cancer and other diseases linked directly to the behavior of those who contract them. There is criticism aplenty for the AIDS crisis, what has been the crux of the criticism of the Reagan legacy is that in the face of obvious suffering and loss, nothing was done because these victims were seen as less worthy of our sympathy and resources. That criticism in no way obviates the responsibilities of the individual for their own suffering. The criticisms are entirely different issues.

Well, I'll give my age away, 31. The only Presidential death I remember is Nixon's, and flags were not at half mast for a month. What about Johnson, Truman, Eisenhower, Hoover... FDR? Anyone want to admit being that old?

BTW, just to clarify, those are listed from most recent death to earliest. I do know the order in which they served. wink

gmginsfo,

"Gobar, spare me the pop psychobabble. Especially since I know this hard truth from the MANY friends I've lost and continue to lose to AIDS by their own admitted promiscuity. I lived in SF from '78 to '03 and know EXACTLY what the facts are from firsthand knowledge..."

Yeah well, I grew up in Pittsburgh and plenty of my friends got it too without having been any more promiscuous than the average straight woman. I have at least three friends who got it in their late teens in the mid-eighties when, in Pittsburgh, we had never even heard of the disease. I'm sorry all your freinds were sluts but it certainly wasn't and isn't a prerequisite to infection.

Psychobable? What the heh?

gmginsfo,

Oh I see (I think?) mentioning Karma constitutes psychobabble? Only Karma has nothing to do with psychology but more to do with religion as Karma is a concept found in the Buddist religion.

When DDE and LBJ died, flags remained at half-mast for a month. When LA's mayor, Tom Bradley, died, flags at city hall were ordered to be at half-mast for a month, but they forgot to return to full-mast until after approximately three months passed.

~Adam

My recollection is that flags were half-mast for a month after Nixon died, but I could be confusing it with the period after the 9/11 attacks.

Am I correct in assuming that such an order coming from the president applies only to flags flying at federal buildings, and not necessarily to state/local governments or privately owned buildings?

Flags are half-staff (half-mast is a term that applies to flags on ships) for 30 days following the death of a president/former president. Thirty days is the maximum length of time a flag is permitted to be at half-staff as a result of a period of mourning. A president can re-up this for another 30-day period if necessary.

Flying the American flag at half-staff

[ June 22, 2004, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: MIB ]

PF, I'll have my flag at half-staff for 30 days when Carter dies. He is a former president and deserving of the same national respect. It is sad that some appear to be so petty and so cruel that they wish to deny Reagan this same period of mourning with the half-staff flags. frown

[ June 22, 2004, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: MIB ]

Just catching up with some of the posts in this thread.

Throw my support behind Cyd's column. I too came to politics during the Reagan Era and compared to Carter's failed presidency, (for that matter, every president since Eisenhower), he towered. Reagan's is a mixed record, as are all Presidents, but on the biggest political issue facing Mankind post WWII - The Cold War - Reagan must be given credit for bringing it to a favorable conclusion for freedom loving people everywhere. For folks over 35, (give or take a few years) the thought that Soviet Imperial Communism would be defeated in our lifetime without nuclear war was almost inconceivable.

We all agree that Reagan could have done more on AIDS, but comparisons to Hitler are so out of bounds as to be laughable.

For all the folks that can only see the failures of Reagan's presidency I would say take heart - he's still dead.

Unlike Nixon...

I know this is like beating a dead horse but I could not resist this cartoon.

Reagan Cartoon

And to continue the dead-horse-beating... this from the Onion:

$25,000,000 Pyramid

[ July 07, 2004, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: RGMike ]

is he STILL dead?

Yup. Still dead.

wait....I'm hearing rumors now that Strom Thurmond is dead as well....