So I'm trying to figure out if this is offensive or not. From Yahoo!/LA Times

Supposedly, this \"girlie men\" comment is offensive to gay people and women... and is \"blatantly homophobic.\" Is it?

It's slightly homophobic at best, but more indicative is the fact that he's resorting to his old movie cliches to try and get things done. "Terminate" them in November? That is so eighties.

as the article noted, this is a reference to the old Hans and Franz SNL skits. as such I don't find it to be homophobic. It's an attempt at humour to get one's point across.

Only those totally dry, devoid of a sense of humour would find this to be homophobic.

Remember, the Hand&Franz skits were making of "Ah-Nold" and by referring to something that parodied him, Schwarzenegro (a joke from "White Chicks") is showing that he can joke around.

He's another repug ass**** and his favorability ratings are plummeting faster than the wooly bush agenda that he fell into. His chances for re-election are nil.

Oh, whatever, it was funny and you know it.

I don't find his comments, especially because it was used as a spoof on Saturday Night Live, particularly homophobic. Especially since Mr. Arnold has at least decent approach to the GLBT community...

But as a governor and leader of the largest state in our nation, I do find his choice of words a bit immature and lacking some of the leadership he had demonstrated during the start of his administration.

He reached his dream of getting a job where he could 'stand up and talk to a lot of people'. Beyond that, the guy seems to be coming a bit unglued. Maybe I've been missing something -- but exactly what qualifications does this guy have to be the CEO of a State larger than most Countries?

It's immature, misogynistic, homophobic (uh, people, no one calls a straight man a "girlie man" unless he wants to insult his masculinity and, by implication, suggest that he's not a man), stupid...can't he resort to measures other than name-calling and drawing upon old TV skits to get his opponents to budge?

Doesn't he realize they just won't roll over like the Congressional Democrats have often done for W? YOu know, he could have just taken a hint from his predecessor Ronnie Raygun, and called them "Communists," or from George H. W. Bush, who once famously referred to candidates Clinton and Gore as "bozos." Or followed W's lead, and called them "*ssholes"....

I find this absolutely hilarious! It's really funny.

What I find odd is that Schwarzenegger used "girlie men" to imply his opponents are weak when in fact they're strong enough to stand up to him. That, and the fact he brought the budget stalemate (the prime issue that engendered his "girlie men" comment) on himself when claimed he had a deal with legislators before getting that deal. And for all his braying about the Democrats in the legislature, he's having an equal amount of trouble within his own Republican party--his social policies are not popular with the more conservative members of the legislature.

~Adam

Not offensive to me.

I did chuckle when I heard it. It's kinda like George I mocking himself by doing the Dana Carvy impression of himself.

The economy of CA is taking off now, isnt it? That was the last I heard.

So these same dems who put the state into such a hole dont want pass his budget... GOOD JOB GUYS.

I wouldnt have called them girly men, i'd have chosen a word that beings with a P ends with a Y.

I just saw a blurb about this on CNN's website where Arnie is taking some heat for his comments.

"PARTY" animals? At least us democrats know how to have a good time

Nothing says fun about sitting around wishing communism would take hold over the world. What do you drink lots of vodka?

So stupid for the Democrats to make a fuss over this. Will the criticism hurt Schwartzenegger? Of course not. Most people see it for what it is--a silly SNL line that he's no doubt used in countless situations in the past. How very self-deprecating of him, most sane people think. He's not a lifelong politician. We expect to hear some not-very-diplomatic talk from him.

Will it hurt the Dems? Of course it will. Only the most po-faced Seven Sisters types will complain earnestly about how "sexist" and "homophobic" (do people really talk like this anymore?) the term is. But we know just how popular they are nationally. It's a throwaway term, and one most Americans won't get hung up on.

So, you have Arnold, this big, tough, muscle-bound movie star, and all his charisma and bluster and fame and Q ratings versus a bunch of Dem legislators complaining like cut bitches that he called them girlie men.

Which of the two will the American public sympathize with?

That's what I mean by Dems sometimes creates these scandals that only hurt them in the end. If they knew what was good for them, they would shut up about it and hope that no one picked up on his association of Democrats with girlie men. Christ, it's bad enough that the Repubs are going crazy tarring Kerry and Edwards with the gay brush.

But the idiot Dems in CA couldn't wait to run to the news to complain that the big guy hurt their delicate feelings, and now it's all over the national news. And Arnold is defiant and won't back down. And two months later, all that anyone will remember is that "girlie men" and "Democrats" somehow go together.

Smart, real smart.

[ July 19, 2004, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: TomFord ]

Oh well, whatever. Let's let GOPers go hogwild with homophobic, racist, whatever insults they want. Whoopi can't make a sexual joke about the Bush (Shrub/Box/Vacuum, etc.) because it so offends the right-wing hysterical dervishes, but Herr Governator Gropenführer is to be excused anything and everything.

Oh well, whatever...jawohl, who do we invade next?

That's pretty funny, actually, because the same word popped into my mind when I saw this thread! What I was thinking was a different, though, more along the lines of "when are the Democrats going to produce guy who has the balls to call Bush a p***y?

I mean, cripes, look at the little wimp! Never mind the draft-dodging, how about the fact that he won't admit to the drugs? Or that he couldn't testify in front of the 9/11 commission without Uncle Dickie there to hold his hand? Cripes, what a p....

Exactly. Instead of complaining about being called girlie men, the Dems should find a way to make top Repubs look less than manly. That's how you win votes (that you don't already have).

This is an election year. This isn't about right and wrong. It's about winning or losing.

Republicans were smart to make a fuss about the Whoopi incident because it made Camp Kerry look like a bunch of vulgar Hollywood types who are Dean-angry at the President, disrespectful and out of the mainstream. There are lots of conservatives, and some moderates, who were swayed by the complaints. It plays to Bush's base.

Democrats were stupid to make a fuss about being called girlie men because it drew national attention, and not a type of attention that will win them sympathy. Today, men across the nation sympathize with Arnold. A number of posters here think it was funny and not homophobic. The only base that the Dem complaints will play to are far out of the mainstream and won't make a dent in the election.

Your "analysis" is even more of an overreaction than that of those who you say are overreacting to Arnold's comment.

When asked by a local TV reporter what he thought about Arnold's comments, our openly gay (and totally nellie) City Supervisor, Tom Ammiano, said "that's MISTER girlie-man to you, Ahnold!" :cool:

It never helps to be on the news complaining that someone called you a girly man. The complainers proved his point.

Ah-nolds honeymoon is over. He's a Republican governor in a state that Democrats have run for some time. He's run into a brick wall and doesn't know how to handle it. Welcome to reality Governor Grope.

A brick wall that the dems who sent them into all of that debt dont want to comply to his budget? Ah-nold seems to doing a GREAT JOB. Most people, save a few of the looney idiots in SF, think he's doing a good job.

He takes his arguement to the public stage, he calls these people out... he is not your run of the mill gov. It's quite refreshing.

I'll trade our lesbo skanko ho gov for him anyday.

When this year's budget is finally agreed upon, it will reflect the efforts of the Democrats in the legislature to restore funding to education, the environment, and health care--each of which were facing draconian cuts in the budget proposed by Schwarzenegger. Insulting members of the Legislature is not the way to get any of them to compromise with you--especially since the Democrats finally found the balls to stand up to the charismatic Governor.

And keep in mind, many Republican power brokers in California--those who allign themselves with the more conservative wing of the party--are still upset with Schwarzenegger for his lack of opposition to the mere idea of gay marriage. If he loses friends in the Democratic party as well as the Republican, he won't be able to govern at all.

~Adam

Ahnold has been very successful thus far. He's succeeding far beyond most people's expectations.

There's no story here. Most people see it for what is is: self-deprecating humor. No more, no less.

Most people are going to stick with Arnold. I think his ratings are high enough that he just has to mention a name and he could get anyone booted out in November.

He's got to stop with these movie soundbites. They aren't funny and they were never funny. We get it. You are a moviestar. It wasn't funny on SNL or MadTV. But is the remark homophobic and misogynistic? The democrats should stop thinking gays and women are just cattle that will believe it if they just hear a politician say it.

I'm a democrat, but I may have to vote independent or libertarian in November. The democrats in California are beginning to terrify me.

Remember the Riordan incident two weeks ago? Now this. Its just a sick childish game.

[ July 19, 2004, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: savvy ]

I'm sorry but I do find it offensive

as someone who grew up with being called faggot, sissy, etc., I expect better out of our leaders

I don't care if he was making fun of himself, his words were poorly chosen

and the whole thing has blown up in his face--the Democrats have walked on the budget negotiations

we need an adult in the office--not some repressed adolescent

In other words, if you are really strong and courageous, you're a man. But if you're weak and cowardly you're a "girl". And of course the worst insult you can throw at a man is to compare him to a woman, er, girl. And women are not supposed to find that offensive? Gee, TomFord, glad you like it. I'm sure you feel like a REAL MAN now that women are put in their place.
Their place, of course, being under men's feet and under the gropernator's wandering hands.

you people need to get clue if you are this offended.

The girly little legislature of CA, you know the failed legislature who racked up all the debt, spent tons of money on stupid projects some tree hugger wanted. Drove business away because of all their stupid laws... that legislature? The one who refuses to tighten their belts to make the budget balanced?

Perhaps some of these senators from CA would be better suited staying at home.. cooking, cleaning, watching soaps and driving the kids around. Everyone knows 1/2 the problem with the american family is that chics arent taking care of their responsibilities at home.

Oh, so CA should be going for Bush then, huh?

Agreed, but at the same time, it was just another sophomoric comment from a retired bodybuilder who stumbled into politics. It gets more of a from me than a :mad: .

So I guess that makes the GOP-controlled US Congress the nelliest, girliest, weakest, femmies that ever roamed the planet. And Shrub would then be the main skank-ho (to use your ever-so-pleasant terminology). Agreed?

Aaaaanold is an idiot. He has doesn't think before you speak disease.

That's right KeyWest Guy!

Keep in mind that Arnold Schwarzenegger dyes his hair, wears makeup at all times , has lifts in his shoes, has had an eyelift, and wears a girdle. And he has the gall to call someone a girlie man?!?

~Adam

Sounds like a hypocrite to me. Oh the hypocrisy! eek!

Not to mention he was pregnant in one of his movies.

More gravy on those pork chops please...
A real man.

Oh myy, what happened to his...rod? Maybe he was "projecting" when he slammed the Democrats as "girlie men"?

(Maria, what did you do to him?--it looks he's got nothing left but his balls!)

looks like ahnuld needs a mansiere (sp?)!

How many times do I have to tell you that it's a "bro"?

No It has not blown up in Arnold's face. It's blown up in the face of the democrats who look like a bunch of crybabies with no sense of humor. (oh my. Now will someone get offended because I belittled the baby population as overly emotional?)

and if you want an adult in the office, you guys in Cali should have voted an adult into the Gov's mansion. not an ex-bodybuilder action film star.

Now that's funny!

This whole thing's a tempest in a teapot that wouldn't have gotten half this much coverage if (a) he weren't a movie star or ( it weren't happening in the home state of major media. Yeah, it was a stupid, sophomoric comment with sexist overtones, but what do we expect from the guy? Remember the "groping" issue? I say watch his policies and judge him on those.

But as long as it's rag-on-Ahnult veek ... anybody want to start a pool on how long it takes for someone to do a remake of the Dead Kennedys' "Kalifornia Uber Alles"? (I'm a Kraut, so I kan go zere.)

You know, Ung, I normally agree with you, but on this one you're dead wrong. I wouldn't have taken personal offense, and I bet a lot of mature people would have taken that comment for what it was probably intended to be: a joke. I wasn't there, but I'm giving Arnold the benefit of the doubt.

But that doesn't excuse him from saying it. Even if I knew it was a joke, I also know how that comment could be interpreted by someone who wasn't present.

Know your audience.

And in this case, Arnold's audience is the entire state. That includes people who are too young/immature/unsophisticated to figure out the comment was tongue-in-cheek. Isn't that one of the reasons the President's State of the Union Addresses are so dry and lacking in humor? Because humor takes a certain level of intelligence to decipher, and the President can't afford to have his words mis-interpreted in case it loses him some votes.

If we only use the speaker's intent as the standard to determine whether or not a remark was offensive, then we're all in trouble. A bully who calls another kid in school a 'faggot' can get away with it because he can argue he was just kidding. When a white supremacist uses the 'N' word to talk to black people, he can claim he was just using the word as its used among blacks. When someone calls their office worker a 'hot piece of ass', they can claim it was meant to be a compliment, not as a sexual come on.

As an elected official, one is responsible for communicating properly to everybody. Does that make for stilted conversations at times, devoid of humor? Yes. But guess what? Arnold took on that responsibility when he took office. And yes, the voters of California put him in office, but Arnold also 1) decided to put himself on the ballot, and 2) took the oath of office. By doing so, it meant he would agree to conduct himself in a certain manner. That manner precludes making thoughtless comments in public.

Face facts: the comment was inappropriate. What works in a conversation among friends doesn't necessarily "play in Peoria." What Arnold said as the governor of California was offensive and should be labeled as such.

Did I find it offensive? No.

Can I see how other people might find it offensive? Sort of.

Are a lot of the people publicly taking umbrage at his comments merely playing politics? Yes.

Were his comments just basically dumb, unfunny, and inappropriate? Absolutely.

Oh, and Arnold? A word of advice.

Nobody ever looks anything less than ridiculous in a Speedo. Particularly 56 year-old celebrity politicians.

Arnold's approval rating dropped over the budget fight -- before this "controversy" occurred, it should be noted.

Jim, take that back! Maybe not Arnold anymore, but all young beautiful men should wear speedos.

Absolutely NOT. They're're ludicrous. If you're gonna wear next to nothing, then just wear nothing.

Jock straps, on the other hand, are an entirely different matter.