The timing of their test missle(s) yesterday was no coincidence, fortunately they were miserable faliures, again, which had to be an embarrassment for Kim Jong-Il. But seriously, I am wondering why Shrub isn't secretlty planning an invasion of North Korea to free the people from the tyranny of Kim Jong-Il. I don't know about you, but I see this man as far more dangerous and far more unpredictable than Saddam Hussein on his best day. And Saddam Hussein had no long range missle programs that I am aware of. I mean we seem to have something like $12 trillion dollars ( or more) for the Iraq quagmire, so whats few trillion dollars more for North Korea?
News update as of this morning (7-5) its been reported that North Korea has fired a 7th missle that reportedly fell into the Sea of Japan.

[ July 05, 2006, 05:56 AM: Message edited by: hockeyTom ]

This insanity is just so depressing.The future is not looking too bright,these days. :mad:

Nuke 'em.

Or get Japan to do it.

I see where worry over the N. Korean situation is wreaking havoc on the world markets and here in the U.S. as well.

Looks like it must be time to invade Iran!

My friend used to do a good routine as Kim. "I build nuclear weapons, I fire missiles into the air, and who does the US invade? Afghanistan! Iraq! What's a guy got to do to get deposed around here?!"

LXN

I'm So Ronery

[Edited to Add]

The Daily Show: Taepo Dong?

In case you missed it.

[ July 05, 2006, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Maddog ]

Love it! Any taepo dong will do these days! wink

MIB, there would be no point in nuking that nation. From the photos you posted last week, it already looks as if it has been nuked. This Kim jerk sure is cruising for a bruising. It would be rather ironic if and when Japan drops the nuke on North Korea. What I don't understand is why we haven't invaded yet...after all, we do know for sure that North Korea has weapons of mass destruction! We're already a step ahead of the Iraqi war! And hey, what's a few more billion dollars for freedom!

Whats been interesting is hearing Shrub spin 180 degrees and say words to the effect talking about how to deal with North Korea, " we have to work with our friends and allies in the international community here, we can't do this alone." Hmmmm.......

W is saying that because we have no more troops to send. The US Military machine is tapped out between Iraq, Afghanistan and th evarious commitments around the world.

North korea has a million men in the army. It will not lie down easily.

and believe me, if Japan were to show any kind of aggression toward North Korea (which they are not supposed to do per the constitution written by the USA post WW2) believe me, South Korea willl quickly come into the fray. The south koreans attitude toward Tokyo is that of a historical enemy. Seoul willl retaliate against Tokyo should Tokyo attack Pyongyang.

No one has invaded North Korea because Kim Jong-Il, like his father, Kim Il-Song, has spent billions of dollars maintaining a large and allegedly capable army. Now that he has nuclear weapons, any potential invader really has to think twice, not only because he's probably crazy enough to blow up a sizable portion of his own country, but also to send nuclear weapons to destroy portions of heavily populated South Korea.

As far as I know, Japan doesn't have nuclear weapons, nor does China (as far as we know). Russia of course has enough for the entire world, much like the United States. Outside of the US, Japan and South Korea are probably the most directly threatened by Kim and North Korea, which has fired missiles close to Japan and also abducted people from both countries.

Speaking of the failed North Korean missile, it turns out that according to the South Korean Yonhap News service, the missile stayed aloft longer--a LOT longer--than either the US military or Tony Snow originally claimed.

FT, everything you say makes sense until you get to the italicized portion. Surely you know that Red China has had nuclear weapons since the mid-Sixties. Link to source.

Correct. in fact both China and Japan have nuclear capability

I've never heard Japan's name mentioned in the group of nations that have nuclear capabilities (whether publisized or perceived - i.e. U.S. U.K., France, Russia, China, India, Pakistan, South Africa, Israel, Brazil, N. Korea, et al) In fact, doesn't Japan's constitution specifically ban the creation of a Japanese bomb?

Yes, it does.

R

There are 5 countries that have had, undeniably, nuclear weapons for decades and are considered nuclear powers: United States, Soviet Union (now Russia), China, France and Britain. All have tested nuclear weapons, except for Britain (I believe, please correct me if I'm wrong). These five countries are permanent members of the U.N. Security Council, precisely due to the fact that they have "the bomb". When the Soviet Union collapsed, the new countries of Kazakhstan and (I think) Ukraine both had them, until they were dismatled and/or moved to Russia.

India and Pakistan, have recently aquired "the bomb" and have tested it to prove it. Their "need" for it is based mostly on deterrence, rather than aggression.

It is generaly believed that Israel has nuclear weapons, though they have never tested them and have never admitted to having them ... they don't deny it either, just a "no comment".

North Korea has claimed to have one or more nuclear weapons and is generaly believed ... but I think that is more of "let's assume the worst and hope for the best" kinda thing.

As for South Africa, Brazil, Agentina, Lybia, Iraq (well before the hunt for WMD's) they have all aspired to aquire them but were stopped or persuaded to stop by various means.

Iran of course wants them, is moving towards getting them and denying it all the way.

Japan certainly has the technical ability to aquire them, but as judemorrison posted, is constitutionaly prohibited from having these weapons that destroyed two of their cities.

Rex

Yep, sorry about the mistake on P.R. China. It does have nukes, most certainly.

Japan's constitution (which again, was written by the US) forbids Japan from keeping an army and from using aggression. However, Japan has gotten around it by keeping a sizable "Defense force" that have all the latest military technology. Japan also via th eUS military have access to nuclear weapons and warheads in its "defense forces"

The japanese constitution does not specifically forbid "nuclear weapons" as it assumes that forbidding all military aggression tools are forbidden. But by playing semantics and renaming things as "defensive tools", it does have access.

In fact, there is talk today in Tokyo about a pre-emptive strike on Pyongyang by Tokyo. To which Seoul South Korea has had the strongest words of rebuje to Japan.

Ung, you are correct about Japan thinking, and I emphasize thinking about a pre-emptive strike. Stay tuned folks...this is serious business going on here...scary too if you ask me.

Like I said before, if Tokyo decides to atrike against Pyongyang .... or another scenario is the US striking against Pyongyang but through Tokyo .... the quickest response against Tokyo may come from Seoul instead of Pyong yang.

Actually there is some evidence that N Korea has in fact detonated a nuclear bomb albeit in secret, and that they will not comment on the explosions.

On September 9, 2004, the Ryanggang explosion occurred in North Korea. For awhile some speculated that it was a nuclear test, though this has been denied by both the North Korean government as well as by other intelligence agencies, and there were no reports from other nations of detecting tell-tale radiological traces of a nuclear test.

It is debateable how much could be detected since the explosion took place several miles underground.

On March 12, 1993, North Korea stated that it planned to withdraw from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and refused to allow inspectors access to its nuclear sites.

By 1994, the United States believed that North Korea had enough reprocessed plutonium to produce about 10 bombs with the amount of plutonium increasing.

Faced with diplomatic pressure and the threat of American military airstrikes against the reactor, North Korea agreed in talks with the Clinton Administration to dismantle its plutonium program as part of the Agreed Framework in which South Korea and the United States would provide North Korea with light water reactors and fuel oil until those reactors could be completed.

Because the light water reactors would require enriched uranium to be imported from outside North Korea, the amount of reactor fuel and waste could be more easily tracked, making it more difficult to divert nuclear waste to be reprocessed into plutonium.

On October 12, 1994, the United States and North Korea signed the "Agreed Framework": North Korea agreed to freeze its plutonium production program in exchange for fuel oil, economic cooperation, and the construction of two modern light-water nuclear power plants. Eventually, North Korea's existing nuclear facilities were to be dismantled, and the spent reactor fuel taken out of the country. All of the operative provisions of the accord relate to freezing the North's plutonium program and make no reference to uranium enrichment. Pyongyang scrupulously observed these provisions until the Bush administration stopped the oil shipments in December 2002. The agreement does, however, reaffirm a 1991 agreement between North and South Korea that banned "uranium enrichment facilities," making no distinction between highly enriched uranium and low-enriched uranium. Pyongyang clearly did violate that accord by pursuing uranium-enrichment efforts (however limited they may turn out to have been) and thus, technically, violated the 1994 Agreed Framework as well. [

In 2000 however George Walker Bush was elected the 43rd President of the United States of America. One of his first foreign policy acts in the WH was to kill the N Korean treaty: the United States never built the promised light water reactors and in the late 2002 North Korea went back to useing their old reactors.

"With the abandonment of its plutonium program, North Korea began an enriched uranium program. Pakistan, through Abdul Qadeer Khan, supplied key technology and information to North Korea in exchange for missile technology around 1997, according to U.S. intelligence officials.

This program was publicized in October 2002 when the United States asked North Korean officials about the program. It is worth noting that the added claim — "they acknowledged they had a secret nuclear weapons programme involving enriched uranium," — was never substantiated.

Although the Agreed Framework specifically prohibited then-existing plutonium programs, not uranium, the U.S. argued North Korea violated the "spirit" of the agreement. In December 2002, the United States terminated the 1994 Agreed Framework, suspending fuel oil shipments.

North Korea responded by announcing plans to reactivate a dormant nuclear fuel processing program and power plant north of Pyongyang. North Korea soon thereafter expelled U.N. inspectors and withdrew from the Non-Proliferation Treaty." - Wikipedia

On January 10, 2003, North Korea withdrew from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

Rob

And do you know why? It's this little thing called World War II and Japan's inexcusable attack against the United States, among other minor reasons all related to this.

Said the pro-life catholic.

huh? what's your point? of course I know all this. I would think that between you and me, I would be more aware of the history of the NE asian region.

It was MY father and mother who were punished for speaking korean instead of japanese. Not your's. It was MY family who were forced to use japanese names instead of their own.

I'm very well aware of all this which is why Seoul is again declaring that Tokyo is "too eager" to resort to an attack.

My point in bringing that angle up is to point out that the japanese constitution is a wholly american product. The japanese didn't say "Gee Macarthur. Help us write our own constitution and write it to reflect our pacifist peaceloving ways."

When you dictate terms to the losing side, there's always a disconnect between the document and the public. Like there is with Tokyo, an economic, techonological superpower who is itching to become a political and military superpower also.

Nuke Texas, too, so we can get rid of people like the aforementioned Razor who still lack the ability to detect facetiousness, sarcasm, and the like.

Then perhaps Japan ought to rewrite their Constitution.

Dude!

That comment is neither nor there.

REX said:

See here for British nucelar weapons testing in Australia.