According to this article, it's August 30.

Strike Date

Interesting. If the sources are correct, they set a date but didn't tell anyone. So is the hopeful feeling they're trying to project just public relations?

The article clearly says "IF a strike date is announced" on Friday, the players were told it would be Aug. 30. Groups and individuals in the public eye figure out what they're going to say in advance, you know.

Awful, awful, awful. Baseball is attempting suicide--yet again.

Aug. 30 has been announced... It all boils down to the disagreement over the "luxury tax," which, as this espn.com column explains, is NOT a guaranteed answer to the \"competitive balance problem\"...

It might not be the answer, Bill, but as George Will had explained a few days ago, it appears to be the best "solution" currently on the table. As Will stated, this "competitive balance tax" needs to be set just right to work: Its threshold and its tax rate must be at a certain point, or it's useless.

I am not saying I'm a huge proponent or opponent of this tax. I'm just relaying what Will said. Say what you want about Will as a political person, but I have always liked the guy for his love of the game.

IMHO, there is enough money in Baseball to go around, and then some. The Owners and Players just have to figure this out. Whether they will is another story.

It will be hugely disappointing to see another strike. I still do not understand how players and owners who make millions of dollars playing a game cannot see the bigger picture and resolve these issues. I am sure there are a lot of dynamics that impact their abilities to do so, but still. I love the Cardinals and watch them every night they are on television. However, I think the sport itself needs some major fixing and they need to be mature enough to recognize they probably need an "outside" influence to help them get things in order. I will miss watching, but I hope they cause themselves some damage and are forced to make more substantial overhauls.

[quote]Originally posted by Ump25:
It might not be the answer, Bill, but as George Will had explained a few days ago, it appears to be the best "solution" currently on the table. As Will stated, this "competitive balance tax" needs to be set just right to work: Its threshold and its tax rate must be at a certain point, or it's useless.

I am not saying I'm a huge proponent or opponent of this tax. I'm just relaying what Will said. Say what you want about Will as a political person, but I have always liked the guy for his love of the game.

IMHO, there is enough money in Baseball to go around, and then some. The Owners and Players just have to figure this out. Whether they will is another story.

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Here is the George Will column:


George Will on Baseball

This collage of (understandably anonymous) quotes from baseball people certainly paints a chaotic picture... To address this specific issue, one agent says: "The plans the [owners have] put forward don't help competitive balance at all... it just means a different bunch of freeloaders."

William1865, I had read that column when it first ran a week ago. I also saw George Will speak on this issue on Jim Rome's "The Last Word" on FOX Sportsnet this week. I for one wouldn't mind Will being baseball commissioner. He'd make sense, which is probably enough reason not to give him that job.

[quote]Originally posted by Ump25:
William1865, I had read that column when it first ran a week ago. I also saw George Will speak on this issue on Jim Rome's "The Last Word" on FOX Sportsnet this week. I for one wouldn't mind Will being baseball commissioner. He'd make sense, which is probably enough reason not to give him that job.

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MMMMMM Never thought of George for the Commish. You might have something there Ump... George's love of the game is well known.


Nevertheless, a strike... all I have to say is:::

Whatever happens, I want a permanent solution to this mess. I do NOT want some sort of compromise such as "well, we agree to another one-year extension because of the bad publicity we'll get if we're not operating on 9/11" or something like that.

It amazes me, although only slightly, that they seem to be going back to fighting words after talking nice and trying to act optimistic all this time. Hearing some of the people on both sides on TV today absolutely sickened me.

It would be so sad to see yet another strike. I want my baseball!

While I can't even begin to pretend I know all the ins and outs of the luxury tax issue, my gut reaction is that MLB is right. Why should cash rich teams such as the NY Yankees be able to just buy their way into the World Series year after year? The San Francisco Giants always have a contending team, but they just can't get the most expensive players due to their somewhat limited budget. And heaven help teams like the Devil Rays and others.

The players have played too many trump cards in this deal. The owners are too strapped with outrageous salaries and new stadium debt. The players need to concede, but it doesn't appear that's going to happen. It's a Catch-22, if the players concede to the luxury tax, they may be facing contracts of, what?, XXX million versus XX.5 million? Pobrecitos!

I don't know how many of you remember the Richard Pryor movie called "Brewster's Millions", but it was about this guy that inherited mega-million bucks and had to spend it all within a short period of time, in order to get the rest of even more mega-billion bucks. The movie was funny because it just showed how hard it is to spend that much money in such a short period of time, with the restriction that he's left with absolutely no assets.

How much money do these guys need?

I'll tell you how much money they need. They need a Sh*tload to buy my loyalty and support back into baseball. Earlier this week I sent money to my friends in Greenville S.C. to buy us Braves tickets for the Braves/Mets game in Sept. Now I'm going to end up playing catch with two lesbians in their front yard. This whole thing just sucks. The Braves have an excellent chance to win the pennant and the series this year. Now their going to be sitting on their rich firm bubble butts watching football like the rest of us. So Javy Lopez, buy some extra beer and change the sheets on your bed cause I'm cumming over. And I'm not leaving until you leave for The Ted. Either way I win.

Well, it figures that the Angels might finally have put together a team that's not a bunch of choking dogs and a strike will wipe out the chance of them making the playoffs again after 16 years.

If there's a strike that causes games to be cancelled, I'll never go to another game again, ever. I might watch a few games on TV but even that's in doubt. I've had it with the insanity surrounding the glorious sport of baseball.

Anybody else going to take a scorched earth policy towards baseball?

Interesting. Baseball is kind of a mirror into our society...what do most people fight about??? Money....I can't help but think what is bad for baseball, may be a little bit better for hockey...all you baseball fanatics out there, when and if the strike occurs, c'mon over to the coooollest game on ice..hockey!!

What gets me the most is that this happens EVERY time a MLB contract expires. Let's see, the current contract expired at the end of last season, they just put off negotiating for basically a year? And Commissioner Bud had to throw in that great "contraction" proposal to start the whole mess.

It is a sad state, if it comes down to a strike. The owners are at fault for letting this happen, and the players are no angels because they are asking for the world when the top 1% HAVE the world. I know this is retrospect, but the owners should have united back in 1971 or 1972, then we'd be nowhere near this mess. Free agency opened up a lot more problems than the owners ever envisioned. And since the owners have been stupid enough to pay the high salaries, I don't feel one bit sorry for them. Of course, I don't feel one bit sorry for the baseball union either, seeing as how their average salary is over $2 million and the minimum after this is all over with (2003?) will be roughly 6 times what most of us regular folks make in a year.

Ugly Bud Selig might be a great used car salesman, but he's been positively brain-dead as Baseball Commissioner. Latest evidence: the holy grail that is the "luxury tax".

The luxury tax may ... MAY ... restrain the spending habits of George Steinbrenner, the Red Sox and Tom "Shoot Me Before I Give Out Another Quarter Billion Dollar Contract" Hicks, but it will do NOTHING to make loser franchises like the KC Royals, Florida Marlins or Pittsburgh Pirates spend the necessary money to build competitive franchises. The Yankee tax ... and it really is simply a tax on Steinbrenner for being Steinbrenner ... will do absolutely nothing to get the Minnesota Twinks to spend the necessary bucks to keep their great nucleus together. It's simply a ploy by a cadre of greedy owners to get some of Steinbrenner's money.

Why? It does nothing at the bottom end of salaries ... it only seeks to perpetuate and lock-in the current level of imbalance, I guess to prevent it from getting worse. If that's possible.

Even if the owners' proposed "tax" is accepted by the players' association (when pigs fly), the tax does not kick in until over $100 million in payroll. Don Fehr is willing to let it kick in at $130 million. The Jeff Loria Marlins' payroll? $41 million. Tampa Bay? $34 million. The Yankees? $125 million. A 50% surcharge on the top $20-25 million of Yankee payroll (I'll do the math: $10-12.5 million), which I guess will be distributed 29 ways among the other franchises? Yeah, that's going to get the KC Royals to double their payrolls to compete with the Yankees, Red Sox and M's.

The luxury tax is merely a ruse by the owners to get the media, and maybe the fans (if they think about us at tall) to think that they are doing "something" about competitive imbalances that are getting very very boring. The advantage? Cheapskate and idiotic owners (not to name names, but if I did, Jeff Loria, Carl Pohlad, David Glass and Wendy Selig-Prieb would be good places to start) don't have to do anything! Just cash a small check and get accolades for trying to solve baseball's "problems."

Ump25 ... whose baseball knowledge I usually do not question, is dead wrong when he says that the proposal, while not perfect, is good because we have to do "something". I'll hurl the biggest insult at him in my arsenal: that's the same line of reasoning that got sane rational people to advocate in favor of Hillary (Rodham) Care back in 1993-94.

[ August 17, 2002: Message edited by: Charlie in the Trees ]

[quote]Originally posted by Charlie in the Trees:
The luxury tax is merely a ruse by the owners to get the media, and maybe the fans (if they think about us at tall) to think that they are doing "something" about competitive imbalances that are getting very very boring. [ August 17, 2002: Message edited by: Charlie in the Trees ]

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This may seem really simplistic, but why doesn't MLB just force a salary cap as most other sports have? And fight hard for it! That would enrage the players to no end, would certainly lead to a strike which is bad for us - but it would finally evidence the fact that MLB is actually doing "something".

Since the last work stoppage, eight years ago, when the owners basically stole more than $200,000,000 (!) there has been a chasm of distrust larger than the Grand Canyon between owners and players--even those who weren't a part of the game back then--that has never been addressed. That alone is hardening the sides' positions this time around. HOWEVER the two sides are closer on issues than they were in prvious work stoppages, they're actually talking with each other, and the owners aren't as unified (we have heard George Steinbrenner sniping about Selig--the owners' commish.) Finding an agreeable solution to the luxury tax is JUST a numbers question which can be overcome; in most negotiations, opposing sides split the difference so everyone can claim a bit of victory. I get the feeling that's going to happen here. It will not be a long-term solution but will give baseball a degree of peace until the next time the CBA expires.

~Adam

from puckman1:

...all you baseball fanatics out there, when the strike occurs, c'mon over to the cooollest game on ice..hockey

My love for hockey is second to none, but when the collective bargaining agreement expires at the end of the season, hockey's mess will make baseball's look like a day at the beach!

~Adam

I may be ignorant , but why dose this issue have to be rectified at this very moment? Can it not wait until after he season is over? Or will that be too little of a spotlight for a bunch of money hungry premadonnas (sp)? This strike is all a bunch of grandstanding and it really ticks me off, in case you couldn't tell.

I know more balance in the Majors is an issue that must be dealt with, but like we say in the south, "it'll wait till tomorrow."
I'll stop now before I get too fired up and can't stop.

I'll answer that one for you, Wade. The problem is both sides have been waiting to address the real issue, at least since 1994. And some would argue, since the beginning of free agency. But most definitely, they have waited since last November when the "current" labor contract expired.

If I'm not mistaken, MLB was the first of the major sports to have free agency. So how have the NFL, NBA, and NHL effectively dealt with the situation in some way (though not always perfect, and I admit I don't know much about the NHL economics) yet MLB never has.

The difference is the MLB owners have not been united during these negotiations. Until they unite, yes even Steinbrenner, they can't ever expect to get things the way they want them. So the players will walk out on August 30, and we'll be right back where we started in August 1994.

And I believe that the compromise the MLBPA should offer, is that the teams have a minimum salary if the owners want the luxury tax. At least that means some of the middle-of-the-road players will benefit, and assuredly the money would go to salaries that the players want. If there is a "Yankee" or luxury tax, you are correct that there is no guarantee that KC, Milwaukee, Minnesota, etc. wouldn't just profit rather than spend more on payroll.

And what about Tom Hicks' quote in the Dallas Morning News today? That the Rangers would most certainly be below the level where a luxury tax would be assessed? This from the "idiot" who spent $25 million per year on ONE player? And who says that the owners will go for a salary cap if there is a strike?!?

Tom Hicks via ESPN.com

I sure hope Selig fines him $1 million for speaking out. If he doesn't then we know Selig WANTED him to say it, and the MLBPA should almost be justified in walking.

[ August 17, 2002: Message edited by: MSUBulldog ]

[ August 17, 2002: Message edited by: MSUBulldog ]

The answer is so simple: GET RID OF THE NEW YORK YANKEES ! MAKE EVERYTHING FAIR Send your tissues to Steinbrenner

[quote]Originally posted by wade n atlanta:
I may be ignorant , but why dose this issue have to be rectified at this very moment?

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From an AP Q&A on the situation:

[quote] Q. Why set a strike date now?

A. Players are convinced that if they finish the season without an agreement, owners would lock them out (which NBA owners did to their players) or change work rules. The union prefers to have any confrontation late in the season, when owners take in more revenue.

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[quote]Originally posted by Charlie in the Trees:
Ump25 ... whose baseball knowledge I usually do not question, is dead wrong when he says that the proposal, while not perfect, is good because we have to do "something". I'll hurl the biggest insult at him in my arsenal: that's the same line of reasoning that got sane rational people to advocate in favor of Hillary (Rodham) Care back in 1993-94.

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Do not put words in my mouth, please. I didn't say we have to do "something." I relayed what George Will said. It was his opinion that the "competitive balance tax" was a start.

If you reread my post above, you will see in the second paragraph that I specifically stated I was not taking one side or the other on this so-called tax.

I have always said that there is so much money in baseball, it can be divided up intelligently and fairly. It can be, but will it be?

[ August 17, 2002: Message edited by: Ump25 ]

Again, a salary cap would solve the problem!

Well if you ask me,(and I know you want to)if it comes to a strike and we can't watch Americas' favorite pastime, then we'll have to settle for spending our time with the worlds favorite pastime. SEX!! Just grab your partner and have at him. Run amuck, engage all your deepest kinky fantasies. Do things your mind has always said, 'no way' to before. Do it outside, in public. Ask them to join you.
Then when your standing before the judge in a straight jacket just say, 'it wasn't my fault, it's the baseball strike." A class action law suite will be brought forth against the union and owners. We'll win, be rich, spent and satisfied. But most of all we can sit back and watch our favorite team.
Now go over to the political section and read my incredibly simple solution to that problem.

Hey Thumper! Why do Rednecks like doing "It" doggy style?

So they can both watch the race on TV.

We can watch other sports and still have sex! whoo hoo!