That's the headline on the MLB.com site, a nice take on Neville Chamberlin returning from Munich in 1938 after meeting with Hitler over the Czechoslovakian question. Well, we know how that one ended, so I hope that the current 4 year reprieve in baseball's labor hostility brings a little more sanity to the game. And it'd be nice if they actually starting negotiating in earnest sooner than they did this time.
This is an excerpt from a report about the Angels-D Rays game last night: [quote]In the last major league game before the strike deadline, a small but rowdy crowd of 18,820 at Edison Field let loose some anger. In a ballpark where most fans resist cheering until directed to do so by a scoreboard message, the fans stood in unison in the seventh inning and chanted "NO STRIKE."
With one out in the ninth inning, they did it again, not so much in unison but this time with props. Fans along the first-base line littered the field with debris, including cups and toilet paper. After the final out, fans from all seating areas showered the field with more trash, including more water bottles and beer cups, some of them full.
Earlier in the game, fans in the right-field bleachers tossed beach balls and toilet paper onto the field. Any fan catching a ball, even a foul ball, was urged to throw it back onto the field; one fan did so in the eighth inning and almost nailed Angel pitcher Kevin Appier.
It's so true about Angel fans: they are comatose unless: 1) The Rally Monkey is on the screen (GRRRRRRR) 2) A beach ball comes in to their section or 3) The scoreboard commands them to cheer. So, I was a little surprised at the trash throwing. If they'd show that much fire the rest of the time, maybe the players wouldn't feel happier playing road games in places where fans actually care about the game, not their next tray of nachos.
I'm glad baseball will be here for the rest of the season; I have another Angels collapse to live in daily fear of!
Full Version: Peace in Our Pastime - No Strike
I am so relieved that an agreement was reached. Such posturing on both sides!
It would have been so unfair to bring to a halt the immense efforts of the Oakland A's recently. And the SF Giants sweep of the Rockies keeps them in tight contention for the wildcard.
Everybody has their favorite races, these are just the ones I'm most excited about.
It would have been so unfair to bring to a halt the immense efforts of the Oakland A's recently. And the SF Giants sweep of the Rockies keeps them in tight contention for the wildcard.
Everybody has their favorite races, these are just the ones I'm most excited about.
I'm relieved the games will continue. It'll be nice to concentrate on the beauty of the game instead of the ugliness of the rhetoric.
Here's an excellentarticle that sums up my thoughts perfectly:
Strike - OUT!
Here's an excellentarticle that sums up my thoughts perfectly:
Strike - OUT!
[quote]Originally posted by Munson Man:
I'm relieved the games will continue.
ME TOO!PLAY BALL!
I'm relieved the games will continue.
ME TOO!PLAY BALL!
I realized today how anxious I really was about a work stoppage. It -- woohoo! Angels 2-0 over the hapless O's in the 2nd -- really bummed me out, the thought that both sides were like lunatics locked in bus, both pushing the accelerator as they headed for the cliff. It buys us all 4 years of relative peace, but for f**ks sake! Start the negoiating earlier next time!
There's also been some great signs shown at ballparks. My favorite: "What's all this talk about a celery cap?". More than a few I've seen have basically said "Pbbhhtttt baseball, football is here!"
Now that the strike has been averted, I hope the proposed sale of the Angels to Alabama businessman Donald Watkins goes through. The Mouse's reign has been a disaster and I will dance on their grave and sing "Hallelujah" when they're gone.
There's also been some great signs shown at ballparks. My favorite: "What's all this talk about a celery cap?". More than a few I've seen have basically said "Pbbhhtttt baseball, football is here!"
Now that the strike has been averted, I hope the proposed sale of the Angels to Alabama businessman Donald Watkins goes through. The Mouse's reign has been a disaster and I will dance on their grave and sing "Hallelujah" when they're gone.
tzeile, just what are you trying to say??
What's bad about this is that nothing may really change. There's no guarantee that the revenue sharing/luxury tax will result in the so-called poorer teams spending their newfound windfall on player salaries. And if they don't, and the competitive imbalance continues, who gets the blame then?
And although there won't be contraction for four years, the fate of the Expos is still up in the air. They're actually talking about the possibility that they'd remain in Montreal yet one MORE season. That's utterly ridiculous.
And the steroid testing sytem only serves as a PR move so they can say the sport is clean...from Jayson Stark's ESPN.com article:
[quote] Q: How will the steroid testing system work?
A: You haven't heard the last of this controversy, because this is not a system designed to punish players who test positive. This isn't the Olympics. But it's better than no testing at all. It's a system designed to reassure the public that steroid use is less prevalent and that the game has more integrity than Ken Caminiti and Jose Canseco may have intimated. Whether it will accomplish that remains to be seen. But in every year of the agreement, players will be tested to determine what percentage actually use steroids. If more than five percent test positive, then random testing begins and continues every year until steroid use drops to less than 2 1/2 percent. If less than five percent test positive, the same type of testing will take place every year of the agreement.
And worst of all, Bud Selig is still in charge!
What's good about this is that the needed miracle actually occurred and there was no work stoppage.
When I heard on ESPN at 2:15 am Friday morning that the sides were $3 to $6 million apart, I thought, SPLIT THE DIFFERENCE ALREADY! When I woke up and turned on the TV at 11 that morning and heard they STILL hadn't settled, but were $1 million apart for the first year, $2 million apart for the 2nd and $1 million for the third....!
My thought is that, with the buildup of bad feelings over the last 10 months--from the contraction to the steroids to the All-Star farce--the fan anger in the days leading up to the deadline FINALLY somehow got through to those bunch of idiots. And don't discount the 9/11 anniversary as a factor.
Speaking of fans, what about those vicious thugs throwing stuff on the field in Anaheim???? Where's the outrage?!?!?!!!!
What's bad about this is that nothing may really change. There's no guarantee that the revenue sharing/luxury tax will result in the so-called poorer teams spending their newfound windfall on player salaries. And if they don't, and the competitive imbalance continues, who gets the blame then?
And although there won't be contraction for four years, the fate of the Expos is still up in the air. They're actually talking about the possibility that they'd remain in Montreal yet one MORE season. That's utterly ridiculous.
And the steroid testing sytem only serves as a PR move so they can say the sport is clean...from Jayson Stark's ESPN.com article:
[quote] Q: How will the steroid testing system work?
A: You haven't heard the last of this controversy, because this is not a system designed to punish players who test positive. This isn't the Olympics. But it's better than no testing at all. It's a system designed to reassure the public that steroid use is less prevalent and that the game has more integrity than Ken Caminiti and Jose Canseco may have intimated. Whether it will accomplish that remains to be seen. But in every year of the agreement, players will be tested to determine what percentage actually use steroids. If more than five percent test positive, then random testing begins and continues every year until steroid use drops to less than 2 1/2 percent. If less than five percent test positive, the same type of testing will take place every year of the agreement.
And worst of all, Bud Selig is still in charge!
What's good about this is that the needed miracle actually occurred and there was no work stoppage.
When I heard on ESPN at 2:15 am Friday morning that the sides were $3 to $6 million apart, I thought, SPLIT THE DIFFERENCE ALREADY! When I woke up and turned on the TV at 11 that morning and heard they STILL hadn't settled, but were $1 million apart for the first year, $2 million apart for the 2nd and $1 million for the third....!
My thought is that, with the buildup of bad feelings over the last 10 months--from the contraction to the steroids to the All-Star farce--the fan anger in the days leading up to the deadline FINALLY somehow got through to those bunch of idiots. And don't discount the 9/11 anniversary as a factor.
Speaking of fans, what about those vicious thugs throwing stuff on the field in Anaheim???? Where's the outrage?!?!?!!!!
Well, which is it Joe -- did you find the utterly moronic, one-sided "anger" of the tantrum-throwing fans effective, or do you think it reached its symbolic nadir in the Anaheim garbage-throwing?
Baseball SHOULD be in Montreal next year. They're outdrawing the Marlins, aren't they? And an intelligent owner might make it thrive there (not that one will get the chance).
Baseball SHOULD be in Montreal next year. They're outdrawing the Marlins, aren't they? And an intelligent owner might make it thrive there (not that one will get the chance).
Geez, I should just have this on a marco to save the trouble of typing it so much: Get rid of 6 teams--the Marlins, D Rays, Expos and Brewers would be a good start--easing the dilution of talent, esp. pitching.
I still can't believe the comatose sheep in Anaheim actually displayed some life. Worst fans in sports, without a doubt.
I still can't believe the comatose sheep in Anaheim actually displayed some life. Worst fans in sports, without a doubt.
Baseball should be in Montreal if they're actually going to have an owner that will run the team and attempt to build the franchise. Those fans who do care about the Expos should not have to suffer any more of the nonsense that they have had for all these years. Unless someone steps forward to buy the team who is willing to try and build the franchise, they should be moved immediately.
[quote]Originally posted by Jim Allen:
Get rid of 6 teams--the Marlins, D Rays, Expos and Brewers would be a good start--easing the dilution of talent, esp. pitching.
*slapping my forehead* Repeat, Jim: There is a bigger global talent pool than ever, enough to stock at least 32 teams...
Want to depress offensive numbers? (The owners don't.) Ban maple bats, build bigger parks... I'd add test for steroids, but a workable method isn't going to be implemented.
Get rid of 6 teams--the Marlins, D Rays, Expos and Brewers would be a good start--easing the dilution of talent, esp. pitching.
*slapping my forehead* Repeat, Jim: There is a bigger global talent pool than ever, enough to stock at least 32 teams...
Want to depress offensive numbers? (The owners don't.) Ban maple bats, build bigger parks... I'd add test for steroids, but a workable method isn't going to be implemented.
Well, Bill W., I have to strongly disagree. Just because the Latin American/Asian talent pools have opened up does not automatically mean that there is a sufficient number of Major League caliber players out there to stock 32 teams. I have a friend who lived in Japan for 2 years and went to a ton of ball games there (he was a big Carp fan). And he said that with the exception of the rare Nomo/Ichiro type, most of the talent there is AA/AAA quality (which is the consensus of most American scouts as well). So, big deal, why import a AAA-level guy from Japan? As Thomas Beecham once said in a different context: "We don't need to import 2nd rate foreign orchestra conductors to England. We have plenty of 3rd rate ones here already!".
[ September 05, 2002: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]
[ September 05, 2002: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]
[quote]Originally posted by Bill W:
Baseball SHOULD be in Montreal next year.
Portions of the following article are omitted because they dealt with yesterday's game. What I've left here is regarding the attendance:
[quote]MONTREAL (CP) -- Olympic Stadium sounded a lot more like the Olympic Library.
An Olympic Stadium record-low of 2,134 watched the Montreal Expos fall 4-1 to the Philadelphia Phillies on Thursday. The announced attendance represented tickets sold. The actual number appeared closer to 1,000 people.
"It's very, very disappointing," said Expos catcher and player union representative Brian Schneider. "I can't understand how only 2,000 people can show up for a game, and that was announced. I don't believe there were that many."
The previous low attendance at Olympic Stadium was 2,803 for a game against St. Louis on Sept. 27, 1984. The lowest crowd in franchise history was 2,107 on Sept. 7, 1976, during the team's last season at Jarry Park, also against St. Louis.
Players' voices, every holler from the seats, individuals clapping, and even regular conversations were audible in the sparsely filled stadium that holds 46,620.
"If there was a cricket in the dugout, you'd be able to hear it. Easily," said Phillies starter Randy Wolf, who pitched his third complete game in four starts to get the win.
One fan successfully attempted to get the attention of a member of the media in the press box and held a short conversation with him from about 100 metres away.
A weekday afternoon game, with schools opening Tuesday, and a shutdown of the subway line to Olympic Stadium contributed to the anemic attendance total.
But Expos starter Javier Vazquez doesn't think those are valid excuses.
"I don't even look at the crowd," said Vazquez, who lost his seventh straight decision. "I'm used to it, it's not like we're getting 50,000 every game."
With 21 members of the media covering the game, there was one reporter for every 104 fans at the game.
"To me it felt like a spring training 'B' game," said Phillies manager Larry Bowa. "I don't know how (the Expos) still exist, to be honest with you. But that's not my area."
The Expos drew 10,000 fans or more to 10 of the 11 games that immediately preceded the players' union setting a strike deadline on Aug. 16.
The strike was averted, but it appears the damage was already done. In the 11 home games since the strike date announcement, the Expos have only drawn two crowds of over 10,000 people. Those two crowds came out for a Vladimir Guerrero bobblehead giveaway Aug. 18 and the Sept. 1 birthday of Expos mascot Youppi!, who has long been the most popular personality among kids at Olympic Stadium.
(Wolf) said after the game he didn't mind the tranquillity of Olympic Stadium.
He mentioned an at bat where he could hear Pat Burrell encouraging him from left field.
"That's how quiet it was," Wolf said. "(Olympic Stadium) is just different from basically everywhere else. It's hard to really put into words how different it is."
This was a major league baseball game.
[ September 06, 2002: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]
Baseball SHOULD be in Montreal next year.
Portions of the following article are omitted because they dealt with yesterday's game. What I've left here is regarding the attendance:
[quote]MONTREAL (CP) -- Olympic Stadium sounded a lot more like the Olympic Library.
An Olympic Stadium record-low of 2,134 watched the Montreal Expos fall 4-1 to the Philadelphia Phillies on Thursday. The announced attendance represented tickets sold. The actual number appeared closer to 1,000 people.
"It's very, very disappointing," said Expos catcher and player union representative Brian Schneider. "I can't understand how only 2,000 people can show up for a game, and that was announced. I don't believe there were that many."
The previous low attendance at Olympic Stadium was 2,803 for a game against St. Louis on Sept. 27, 1984. The lowest crowd in franchise history was 2,107 on Sept. 7, 1976, during the team's last season at Jarry Park, also against St. Louis.
Players' voices, every holler from the seats, individuals clapping, and even regular conversations were audible in the sparsely filled stadium that holds 46,620.
"If there was a cricket in the dugout, you'd be able to hear it. Easily," said Phillies starter Randy Wolf, who pitched his third complete game in four starts to get the win.
One fan successfully attempted to get the attention of a member of the media in the press box and held a short conversation with him from about 100 metres away.
A weekday afternoon game, with schools opening Tuesday, and a shutdown of the subway line to Olympic Stadium contributed to the anemic attendance total.
But Expos starter Javier Vazquez doesn't think those are valid excuses.
"I don't even look at the crowd," said Vazquez, who lost his seventh straight decision. "I'm used to it, it's not like we're getting 50,000 every game."
With 21 members of the media covering the game, there was one reporter for every 104 fans at the game.
"To me it felt like a spring training 'B' game," said Phillies manager Larry Bowa. "I don't know how (the Expos) still exist, to be honest with you. But that's not my area."
The Expos drew 10,000 fans or more to 10 of the 11 games that immediately preceded the players' union setting a strike deadline on Aug. 16.
The strike was averted, but it appears the damage was already done. In the 11 home games since the strike date announcement, the Expos have only drawn two crowds of over 10,000 people. Those two crowds came out for a Vladimir Guerrero bobblehead giveaway Aug. 18 and the Sept. 1 birthday of Expos mascot Youppi!, who has long been the most popular personality among kids at Olympic Stadium.
(Wolf) said after the game he didn't mind the tranquillity of Olympic Stadium.
He mentioned an at bat where he could hear Pat Burrell encouraging him from left field.
"That's how quiet it was," Wolf said. "(Olympic Stadium) is just different from basically everywhere else. It's hard to really put into words how different it is."
This was a major league baseball game.
[ September 06, 2002: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]
I just don't sense that people will be weeping in the streets and cutting their wrists if the Expos leave. And the sooner the wrecking ball demolishes The Big Owe, the better. Sad, sad, sad.
Speaking of Towns That Don't Care, a very similar situation happened in Tampa Bay when the Angels were there earlier this week; it was so quiet that the players could hear conversations in the stands. That must be eerie.
Can someone please explain to me why Tampa Bay was given a team? The only plausible reason I can think of is that MLB did it to avoid lawsuits arising from the Giants promising to move to the atrocity that is Tropicana Field and then backing out. What a thought! The Giants in TB instead of Pac Bell......
Speaking of Towns That Don't Care, a very similar situation happened in Tampa Bay when the Angels were there earlier this week; it was so quiet that the players could hear conversations in the stands. That must be eerie.
Can someone please explain to me why Tampa Bay was given a team? The only plausible reason I can think of is that MLB did it to avoid lawsuits arising from the Giants promising to move to the atrocity that is Tropicana Field and then backing out. What a thought! The Giants in TB instead of Pac Bell......
[quote]Originally posted by Jim Allen:
Can someone please explain to me why Tampa Bay was given a team? The only plausible reason I can think of is that MLB did it to avoid lawsuits arising from the Giants promising to move to the atrocity that is Tropicana Field and then backing out. What a thought! The Giants in TB instead of Pac Bell......
That was the reason. Vince Naimoli and his minions were threatening all sorts of lawsuits because they were thwarted in their attempts to buy-and-move a couple of different franchises, including but not limited to the Giants.
If you remember, the last expansion was actually driven by the desire to get a major league franchise in what had been baseball's favorite moving threat: the mausoleum then called the Florida Suncoast Dome (which, tell then, had defied the "Field of Dreams" rule: if you build it, they won't necessarily come).
Arizona was actually something of a throw-in, added to keep the number of franchises even. The Phoenix metropolitan area hadn't even been a serious candidate back in the 1993 expansion that added baseball to Denver and Miami. If my memory serves me right, that was a three-way race between Denver (arguably the best sports town in America), Miami (with Wayne Huizenga's $$$) and Tampa/St. Pete (that bid being backed then, as in '98, by Naimoli's lawyers, guns and money, as Warren Zevon might've observed). Washington and Buffalo (!) (yes, kids, Buffalo was once considered a viable baseball expansion market) were the dark horses. Now, of course, the Arizona Diamondbacks are the most successful expansion franchise ever, in terms of success both on the field and in the stands.
So after the '93 expansion, most baseball execs thought Tampa Bay was a legitimate major league market. It was part of that lucrative, barely-tapped Sunshine State market. It was going to be a goldmine. Now, in retrospect, we see the Devil Rays as the baseball equivalent of New Coke.
Can someone please explain to me why Tampa Bay was given a team? The only plausible reason I can think of is that MLB did it to avoid lawsuits arising from the Giants promising to move to the atrocity that is Tropicana Field and then backing out. What a thought! The Giants in TB instead of Pac Bell......
That was the reason. Vince Naimoli and his minions were threatening all sorts of lawsuits because they were thwarted in their attempts to buy-and-move a couple of different franchises, including but not limited to the Giants.
If you remember, the last expansion was actually driven by the desire to get a major league franchise in what had been baseball's favorite moving threat: the mausoleum then called the Florida Suncoast Dome (which, tell then, had defied the "Field of Dreams" rule: if you build it, they won't necessarily come).
Arizona was actually something of a throw-in, added to keep the number of franchises even. The Phoenix metropolitan area hadn't even been a serious candidate back in the 1993 expansion that added baseball to Denver and Miami. If my memory serves me right, that was a three-way race between Denver (arguably the best sports town in America), Miami (with Wayne Huizenga's $$$) and Tampa/St. Pete (that bid being backed then, as in '98, by Naimoli's lawyers, guns and money, as Warren Zevon might've observed). Washington and Buffalo (!) (yes, kids, Buffalo was once considered a viable baseball expansion market) were the dark horses. Now, of course, the Arizona Diamondbacks are the most successful expansion franchise ever, in terms of success both on the field and in the stands.
So after the '93 expansion, most baseball execs thought Tampa Bay was a legitimate major league market. It was part of that lucrative, barely-tapped Sunshine State market. It was going to be a goldmine. Now, in retrospect, we see the Devil Rays as the baseball equivalent of New Coke.
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