Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Anybody got a spare couple of Trillion lying around?
Outsports Discussion Board > Outsports > Politics & Religion
ITJock
The Wall Street Journal worldwide news box and Los Angeles Times lead with President Bush ruling out higher payroll taxes to fund changes to Social Security. The administration's nascent plans to partially privatize the system are expected to cost about $2 trillion, which White House officials have said they'll probably get via borrowing.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2110898/

Rob
fantomas
Repuglican Senator Lindsey Woolsey, I mean, Lindsey Graham, says, "Oh no you don't...!"

Yahoo! News: Repuglican warns W on Social Security

QUOTE
U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham (news, bio, voting record) of South Carolina said reliance on borrowing to finance an estimated $1 trillion to $2 trillion in transition costs would be irresponsible and could undermine Bush's tax- and deficit-cutting goals.

\"What I'm asking of the president, when it comes to the transition costs, be flexible,\" said Graham, who has proposed a temporary rise in payroll tax contributions to finance Social Security's shift to partial privatization.

\"I think it's irresponsible to borrow the whole trillion dollars,\" he told \"Fox News Sunday.\"
Miss Gurl, the whole thing is "irresponsible," but dn't try telling that to most of the zombies in your party. Just get John McCain and the New England crew on board, and you might be able to challenge this insanity.
MIB
QUOTE
fantomas:

\"What I'm asking of the president, when it comes to the transition costs, be flexible,\" said Graham, who has proposed a temporary rise in payroll tax contributions to finance Social Security's shift to partial privatization.
Since when has a Member of Congress ever rolled back a "temporary" tax increase? Regardless, perhaps the GOP ought to try this. It's bound to get near unanimous support among Democrats. After all, they've never met a tax increase they didn't like. They love taking as much money out of the pockets of those making it that they'd surely go along with this plan.
RazorbackTX
Trillion here, trillion there...
since when has the gop been concerned about how to pay for anything?
hockeyTom
Yeah MIB, and the Repugs. have never seen a spending bill that they couldn't turn down, so your point is?????
CPT_Doom
As I understand Social Security, you pay payroll taxes up to 85k or so to finance current benefits for retirees. However, when calculating your social security benefits at retirement, the government uses an average of your last few years' earnings to determine how much you get.

So why isn't raising the limit on income levels for Social Security payroll taxes a good idea? The people who are paying more tax would, in the end, get more benefits. Even Phillyfan would agree with that.

And the reality is, whether or not Bush in his ill-advised plan to "privatize" the system (which could actually reduce benefits people receive, as the return on Social Security "investment" for anyone with a long life is HUGE), we do not have the funds to handle the Baby Boomers, and need to do something quick.

Oh, but gay marriage is the biggest threat our country faces.
fantomas
Uh oh...now it looks like this blatantly outrageous privatization scheme might result in considerably lower benefits just a decade or so on....

NY TIMES: Most G.O.P. Plans to Remake Social Security Involve Deep Cuts to Tomorrow's Retirees

QUOTE
But nearly every leading Republican proposal on Capitol Hill acknowledges that private accounts by themselves do little to solve the system's projected shortfall of at least $3.5 trillion. Instead, those proposals rely on deep cuts in benefits to future retirees.

Advertisement

That uncomfortable political truth was driven home on Monday by the head of the investigative arm of Congress.

\"The creation of private accounts for Social Security will not deal with the solvency and sustainability of the Social Security fund,\" that official, David M. Walker, comptroller general of the Government Accountability Office, said in a speech on Monday.

Or, as Thomas Saving, a Republican-appointed trustee to the Social Security trust fund put it last week: \"Fundamentally, if you don't reduce the benefits, you don't reduce the debt.\"
****
Because Mr. Bush has yet to spell out any details of how he would overhaul the system, his stated principles sound like a free lunch: benefits for people at or near retirement should not go down; taxes should not go up; people who do not want private accounts should be able to keep drawing benefits.

The leading Republican proposals, at first glance, sound even better. Benefits could actually be higher than before for low-income people, widows and divorced spouses. On top of all that, Social Security's looming shortfalls, estimated variously from $3.5 trillion to $10.4 trillion, would be wiped out.

But most of the Republican proposals would also reduce the role of Social Security as a source of guaranteed retirement income, slowly but surely.
Plus there are a number of unresolved questions:

Do It Yourself Social Security: Many blanks left to fill in

But back to Senator Lindsey "Impeachment Polly" Graham: any comments from the other conservatives on his stance?
twin58
Alan Sloan is just a hoot, though I can't always follow him, especially when he's discussing those buyouts and mergers that end up being tax-free.

There's No Accounting for the New Social Security Plan

QUOTE
By Allan Sloan
Tuesday, December 14, 2004; Page E03

....
Here are the numbers. In fiscal 2004, which ended in September, Social Security took in $155 billion more than it spent -- $69 billion in cash, which the Treasury took in return for issuing $69 billion of new Treasury IOUs, and $86 billion in interest on its trust fund, paid by the Treasury with new IOUs. Even though Social Security is theoretically \"off-budget,\" this surplus was subtracted from the deficit run up by the rest of the government. Hence we have a reported deficit of $413 billion rather than $568 billion.

Even though the Treasury ended up owing the Social Security trust fund $155 billion more than it did 12 months earlier, that obligation isn't reflected in the so-called \"unified budget,\" and no one except a few cranks like me thinks it mattered any.

And wait, it gets worse. The Treasury owes about $2 trillion to so-called \"on-budget trust funds,\" such as federal civilian and military employee retirement accounts. In fiscal 2004, it paid $68 billion of interest to these trust funds by giving them new Treasury securities. The Treasury showed a $68 billion interest expense, and the funds showed $68 billion of revenue. Net effect of the government's newly issued IOUs on the deficit: zero. The government's obligations are $68 billion more than they were, but that didn't show up in the deficit.

In any sort of reasonably honest bookkeeping system, that $223 billion -- the $155 billion to the Social Security trust fund and the $68 billion to the on-budget trust funds -- would have been reflected in the deficit figures, because those IOUs increase the government's obligations. Issuing Treasury IOUs to the trust funds is the functional equivalent of selling $223 billion of Treasury IOUs to investors and depositing cash in the trust funds. But selling bonds and making cash expenditures is considered an expense, while using bonds in lieu of cash isn't an expense. It's ludicrous.
....

Sloan is Newsweek's Wall Street editor. His e-mail address is sloan@panix.com.


[ December 17, 2004, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: twin58 ]
hockeyTom
And then I hear where on top of all this red-ink, Shrub is still going to push for his tax cuts for the (millionaires) to become permanent!! Unbelievable. More voodoo economics 101.
Lksimcoe
THe Canadian Government, 2 or three years ago, made a 1 time investment in our Old Age Pension. That one time investment, of about 10 - 15 billion, has ensured that the OAP is now fully funded to the end of the 21st century, even through the decline in the number of boomers working, (actually they only need the extra funding till about 2055 - 2065 due to population shifts).
They have also done the same thing with our Canada Pension Plan, (paid into equally by workers and companies)

My question is this. Since the 2 pension systems are similar (Social Security in the US and Old Age Pension in Canada), why would the US not start investing government money now, so that they don't have to try playing with it.

I mean, if the funds are there until 2040 something, and it is running a surplus, why would they not invest the surplus. That way, the prinicipal isn't touched, and the surplus grows.

If a non-acct can think of it, why not the punidits in DC?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2012 Invision Power Services, Inc.