This comment will thrill some of you, and make others' heads explode, but PhillyFan made a good point. eek! In the thread about the manipulation of the color-code terror chart, he said: "I have a GREAT suggestion for ya'all... instead of worrying about something like this, why dont you encourage your party to get a platform? Why dont you encourage them to come up with their own Soc Security plan? How about a plan to attract voters? Get a plan that doesnt include the buster in the senate?"

Here's a column that makes a similar point -- while the GodOP sticks to their message, the Democrats keep on with the infighting. The article points out a recent example regarding the GodOP's Dick Santorum:

I'm starting to hate both political parties...but for completely different reasons. I absolutely can't stand the Republicans because of how they've let the religious freaks take over their party and dictate policy. However, I can't stand the Democrats for being big ol' pussies...just grow a pair and come out fighting.

The Dems are so afraid of making somebody angry that they refuse to take a stand on anything. Hell, I can't stomach hardly any of what the Republicans do these days, but I sure know where I stand with him. I get it; they hate me because I'm a big homo. Yet, the Dems have a tendency of focusing on what the Republicans don't do or won't do, rather than setting an agenda and showing some drive...

I hate Republicans; I hate Democrats; I hate politicians...

Youre right. The Dems seem rather soft and do nothing but try to be the anti-party to the Republicans right now. But I dont particularly think that taking one stance on something and beating it into your head a thousand times over is a good way to build your party either.

It only seems to work with the right wing in this country-- everything is evil, everyone is out to get us, everyone hates our religion, you must protect you must protect you must protect! And the Dems response is usually one of cynicism, because well, the previous idea is pretty stupid.

But at least it has turned Harry Reid into a firebrand in the Senate. Thats a step in the "sticking to it" message. They just need to get everyone on the same page.

The Demos are hampered by their allowing the DLC to set the terms of their discussion. The reverse happens in the GOP. The right wing controls the shots, not the moderates, unfortunately. We'd be better off if this were inverted, though it looks like the moderate GOPers are willing to be led around by the collar, even though most of the principles they espoused are getting kicked to the curb.

The Democrats who succeeded best in the last election were the ones who didn't whimper and cower. Being mealy-mouthed just doesn't get you far anywhere. Why the Democrats didn't find better candidates in Florida (Betty Castor???), South Carolina (Inez Tenenbaum???), and other places is beyond me. And the worst was Kerry, who probably would have made a decent president, but is often so afraid of taking a stand unless it's been well tested that he becomes a parody of himself.

I feel I have little choice in terms of the parties, though. The Green candidates never get very far, nor do the Social Democrats. In both places where I live, the nutcases and incompetent thieves rule the GOP, and incompetent thieves (save at at the Senate level) rule the Demos, but at least the Demos aren't virulently anti-gay, anti-minority, anti-poor, and raging sexual hypocrites. When they whore, they make no bones about it.

Democrats are trying to serve two masters. It never works.

Republicans serve one, but the wrong one.

Moderation is a good thing if it is done in the service of ultimately achieving a positive goal. The danger is losing sight of the goal.

Barry Goldwater's statement about "extremism" applies. But you have to choose the right cause.

Hey, the Democrats have a political position; according to the fetus-toting, anti-gay fulminating nutcase from Pennsylvania, Rick Santorum, it's Nazism!

Gee, Santorum*, you denounced Senator Byrd (also known as the Grand Kleagle to some on this board) for his allusions to the leader of the most systematically murderous regime of the 20th century, you huffed and puffed, you threw your right-wing chest out and flew into hysterics. Oh, how dare Senator Kleagle make such a comparison, the gay-hating GOPer Ricky bawled and whined!

And yet today he goes right out and makes an even more outrageous, explicit, ahistorical, and logically nonsensical comparison. Put the dead fetus down, leave homos alone, little Ricky, and go home!

Video of Crazy Ricky's Wacky Rhetoric

--
*The word also now means "ass-crap juice." How appropriate.

[ May 19, 2005, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

More and more everyday I lament the loss of my country. It really is a damn shame. When will it be over?

Isn't it ironic that shady Rick is now comparing the Dems to Hitler. How utterly ironic, coming from the party that most mirrors the actions of Adolph Hitler. When, oh when is the Jesus ether going to wear off of these right-wing nut-jobs?

The Dems have to emphasize their singular most positive feature: they are the party of freedom.

Freedom to be pro-life.

Freedom to be pro-choice.

Freedom of religion, etc.

The only freedom not supported is the freedom of a few to proscribe others' without cause.

The thing that is starting to be talked about now is how the Republicans also are starting to use so many different messages as well.

A year or 2 ago, the Republicans were pretty darn tight, now they are being split up, mainly by the extreme right and crazy evangelicals.

I've been saying it for quite sometime, the 2 party system is the backbone of our country and it's getting weaker and weaker. There needs to be more parties out there.

People are so disenfranchised with politics and I think with this whole Schiavo thing and now this Judges stuff, people are getting sick of all this bickering.

Seriously, with the whole judge confirmation.....is it that hard to just pick another candidate for confirmation? The Democrats do not want to confirm a handfull of Bush's nominations and Bush & Republicans are complaining about how they can't appoint judges and there are so many cases, etc......so if you have to spend multiple years to get one specific person in a specific spot, why don't you just pick another? I'm sure there are PLENTY of qualified judges.

I really don't find this to be a complicated issue at all and look how much time has been wasted.

Posting this here for lack of a better place...recognizing that "democrat" and "progressive" are not the same thing.

David Korn has an interesting take on the recent "Take Back America" conference sponsored by the Campaign for America's Future and what wasn't discussed.

MIA at Progressives' Conference: Iraq


Paul Rieckoff follows up with a similar assessment. (Courtesy huffingtonpost.com -- I don't agree with much of what I read there, but its generally intresting reading taking on lots of subjects from varying points of view.)

Progressives Are Weak, and Memorial Week -- Installment #3

Perhaps Democrats aren't saying much about Iraq because they don't control much of the government making policy.

That's a total cop out. The Democrats have been a party of contrarianism and little else for the past 5 years.

If they want to get some power back then they're going to have to start addressing issues and proposing realistic solutions (as opposed to Kerry's over used 'Iraq Summit' that caused me so much indigestion during the election).

The ONE thing I admire about George Bush is that he addresses problems and is willing to work toward fixing them. They're not always the most pressing issues (Iraq over Iran/North Korea, Social Security over Medicaid), and he does so often incompetently, but at least he's willing to offer solutions.

Combine that trait with a more competent follow through and the US would be headed in the right direction.

The current reality is that gays and lesbians across America are fed up with being sold out by the Democrats in the name of political expediency.

(I liked the phrase "grow a pair and come out fighting!")

My own Senators have been largely silent in their own state regarding civil rights for gays, for example. They work in DC but are a short drive from most of Maryland, but are not willing to stand up for what's right in their own backyard?

I realize most of my friends cannot understand why I have divorced myself from the Democrats.

Here are some reasons:

1. John Kerry - "I have a plan" became such a ridiculous hogwash soundbite - hell, I STILL can't tell you what his "plan" was, except that he believes he would make a better President. He failed to respond to the Swift Boat folks when it mattered the most, and they painted him as a flip-flop liberal with no guts. He won the debates but lost the war.

2. Howard Dean - I'm sorry to offend, but he is nowhere near ready to be a 'centrist' Democrat, and middle America is not ready to accept him - he hasn't lived down the "Dean Scream" yet.

3. Social Security - agreed, the Democrats have yet to define a message that says "Middle Class Americans cannot afford a tax break for the wealthy - roll back the tax cuts now!" The best thing they could ever do is to start telling the truth - that the wealthy are indeed getting a tax break THEY DON'T NEED, at the expense of the rest of us! HAMMER IT HOME! Raise the payroll cap from $90K and force wealthy Americans that enjoy the luxuries of life in America to pay for it!

4. Minimum Wage hike - once again, the Democrats MUST start working with the working folks that can't afford to buy a house anymore, afford healthcare for their kids, gasoline just to commute to their job, etc. Why hasn't anyone floated the idea of using Bush's tax cuts to the poor, and use it to pay for education?

5. Civil Rights - It's time for Democrats to start talking about the disparity of the haves and have-nots, in regards to equality. I'm not talking about just the gay issues, but all issues - hit em where it hurts. Why are the Democrats so afraid to start using the right wing's words against them - they are driving their big SUVs and living in their fine McMansions, yet children are starving right here in America. Take the Family Values fight right back at them and guilt them!

When I see the Dems move back towards doing the right thing no matter the cost, fight for what is right and just in this land, then I will return to the fold. Until then, count me an Independent voting faggot.

Peace.

4.

Going backwards can be worst than standing still.

I see a lot of wisdom in this article, \"Debtor Nation at Red Alert\" by \"fair-trade activist\" Joshua Holland, about a possible issue the Democrats could raise in such a way that it would suggest the solution. It is interesting that one could say \"China owns our living room\" and not be bothered, yet this nation went in to fits when England effectively owned our houses before the Revolutionary War. Perhaps it is a case of political correctness gone awry, or - more likely - the pervasive increasing debt owed by private USA industry to China for their continued profitability. That may be the reason his solution does not go far enough. It is not government that controls the economy. Right or wrong, it is large international corporations. It is their honesty that must be held to account by the government.

I had lunch with one of my exes last saturday. He is the chief of staff for a democratic congressman.

I asked him...."With the republican party in a tail spin with all the indictments (Delay, Libby) and all these negative numbers about Fema, Katrina, the war....what are you democrats doing to take advantage of it? What will you democrats do to attract votes?"

His answer? They had nothing! A couple of talking points here and there. but basically, the dems are totally rudderless.

A big part of the problem is that the Democratic leadership is trying to be all things to all people. Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean are carrying the liberal battle cry. Hillary is moving to the center (positioning for 08?). The Reid and Schumer response to Supreme Court nominations is to scare sexually active women. They need to find one main overrarching message and stick to it. I thought it would be the war and security, but the Dems seem intent on letting the Republicans self destruct. While this is great for Democrats in the short term, this doesn't bode well for the long term viability of the party. On the other hand, the country is so closely divided politically, and the swing vote is so tiny, that I don't think there is much the Democrats can say right now to dramatically shift the national balance of power.

One savvy political tactic I have to grudgingly credit Bush (well, Rove) for is his unwillingness to govern from the center. He'll do what he needs to do to keep his base happy, and the rest of the party follows along with varying levels of reluctance. But I would hate to be in that Republican big tent right now.

Edited to add: whoops, a dozen people have said most of what I've written further up in the thread -- sorry for the repetition. frown

[ November 05, 2005, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Neptune ]

That absolutely how I feel right now. It really bites that the democrats are so hard up for leadership right now, but I'll be damned if I'll go log cabin while neocons run the show in the republican party.

The dems do have worthy leaders. But the wimpoids of the party refuse to join Howard Dean and others who want to engage the GOP in a healthy vigorous debate.

All I have to say is... remember when you guys nominated Kerry because he had the military background and he voted for the Iraq war? It doesn't pay to be GOP-lite and it doesn't pay to do nothing.

If they don't use the resources they have, they need new leadership. If Howard Dean wants to be a strong leader, he needs to be a leader and get the democrats on target for the '06 elections. That's the problem right now, they have the people to do it, they're just not doing it.

But the thing is.. Dean is not the leader of the party.

He is the head of the DNC. But not the leader of the party. Much like Ken Mehlman is the RNC head. But he is not the head of the GOP.

Hillary thinks she is the leader. Biden thinks he is the leader. Reid thinks he is the leader. Bill Clinton thinks he's still the leader.

Too many chefs!

I was just using Dean because you did. wink I understand what you mean, it's like Office Space on the political scene.

Drives ... me ... crazy. Hillary Clinton hasn't been a liberal in about 30 years. She's a hawkish DLC neocon.

Dean is a fiscal conservative.

Things are so bad for Bush and the Repubs that all the Dems have to do is ...er...well....almost nothing... and they will have a chance to retake the House in '06. I mean, what do the Repubs run on in '06? They control the entire federal government and they have really no positive achievement to market, do they? On the other hand, The Dems have a plethora of critiques they can offer...

I hate to say this but the only thing that could save Bush is another 9/11.

The problem is Dems have a hard time doing nothing, they always want to try to fix things.
The have a bad habit of snatching Defeat from the Jaws of Victory.

Aside from that I feel they do have to do something. You can't just point out how bad your opponent his, you actually need to have a cohesive plan and explain what you intend to do.

Try to get dems to come up with a cohesive plan.

The Dems deserve this one. As for ideas for them: cut off the gravy train from the moneybags to the pockets of the politicians.

1-Lobby reform that stops it not rerouts it.

2-Market regulation that is enforced.

3-Providing infrastructure where it's needed but undoable by those who benefit from a free-market.

Hey as far as I am concerned the voices are starting to be heard, but its the media who isn't focusing in on them with the exception of the Sunday morning talk shows. Biggest problem for them right now I think is that because of the continual and weekly major screwups of the current administration, that gets all the media attention/focus. Witness the latest port blunder for the White House. Last night after watching basketball, I listened for a few minutes to Joe Scarborough, and of course, the port issue was front and center.

Joe and this other guy, whose name I forget, got into a shouting match over whose screwed up, and whats going to be done about it. Joe is against the port deal, big time, along with alot of other Repugs.

More good news for the Dems.: the latest poll numbers are out for Shrub and he again has his highest disapproval rating of 59% ever held by him thus far, so what does he do? Time to leave the country again! He is off to Pakistan and Afghanistan. If you can't stand the heat.......

PLus big story in the media about the Governors conference in D.C. right now. Alot of Repug. Governors are very very uneasy with whats going on in the White House right now, and very , very concerned about what may happen this November as well.

[ February 28, 2006, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: hockeyTom ]

The Republicans have been successful in getting elected, if not quite so successful in governing, because they don't run in the middle. They know who their base is and they speak to their base's values. Dems have instead run to the middle (Repub-lite) and this approach is transparent to most of the electorate. If the Dems would stop being afraid to be liberals, speak to the values of the liberal base (environment, social welfare, respect for all of our countrymen's civil rights and liberties, etc.) of the party proudly, and give the voters real alternatives, I think over time, they'd be more successful. They need to stop allowing the Republicans to frame the issues and create their own frames, not just negate (repeat) the Republican frames. It's not enough to just be honest and logical, you have to be able to market successfully. Spin is okay as long as it's not devious. The people are going to be afraid to do the right thing if their leadership is politically afraid to do the right thing.

Tell the "War President" that 19 year old boys should not be used as canon fodder to boost his ego.

Tell him that we can get energy without bombing other countries for it.

Tell him that we can best protect democracy in the Middle East by practicing it here at home.

And lastly, tell him we do not like state terror.