Baker Says Hispanics, Blacks Better Able to Handle Hot Weather

If a white manager made the same idiotic observations, he'd have been fired already. Didn't Jimmy the Greek and Al Campanis lose their jobs due to similar statements?

Anyone find it quite intresting that none of the usual suspects who call white guys racists or homo-phobes have not chimed in on a person of color saying this....

But this must explain why my back yard looks like shit during those hot summer months, i'm gonna have to find me a nice mexcian to do some yardowrk for me in hot hot sun...

This ignorant ass should be fired.

Hey, does that mean that any team with a dome.. is a racist? you give the white guys a chance to compete because the temp is lower.. Jessie the idiot jackson should take this up! High profile, face in the lights... better yet, he can help me out with that yard work, he's more suited than i am.... according to good ole dusty.

[ July 08, 2003, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: PhillyFan ]

If he'd said players from Latin America could take the heat better because they're from a warmer climate (and probably less dependent on air conditioning), I might buy it. One could say that about anyone from a place closer to the Equator.

Basing it on ethnicity is insensitive stereotyping and kind of dumb, but compared with other recent comments by sports figures (who, lest we forget, were never elected to represent any of us), it's a yawner. File under W for whatever.

This must explain why there are so few black head coaches in the NFL, it's too cold. Since, it's too cold.. they cant compete.. the white guys must use their brains better in the cold. Thank god, Dusty has solved 2 problems now.

More time for Jessie Jackson to work on my yard now that this problem has been solved.

and what about the NHL? I guess hockey should never hope for any kind of strong black presence?

duh ung, it's cold. Altho, golf is play outside, during the day... and mostly during the summer months, yet there are few black there... PGA is racist.

However, the NBA is 90% black. Yet it's played inside, in a controlled atmosphere. Should it be moved outside? maybe someone of them will play some D and forget the Bling Bling? Dusty is going to have to work on that.

Is Dusty saying that blacks are only suited to work outside? If so, then why do we need to have quota's to get them inside working? Dusty needs to clear this up. Maybe he can talk to his friend jimmy the greek, who's a racist... only cause he's white...

[ July 08, 2003, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: PhillyFan ]

I say the NBA should be played by mostly swedes and norwegians. It is inside and air-conditioned. right?

Ung, now come on, there are plenty of other cold weather, white countries you can include besides those.

Yeah, but....

Take a look at cancer rates for melanomas of the skin.

http://www.cdc.gov/cancer/npcr/uscs/specia...ace/stfigoh.htm

Now, if they play at night, all bets are off.

Since we had duplicate threads, we'll keep the one that was open first. Here's what others wrote in the duplicate thread:

From Fantomas:
Since no one has brought this up on the P&R thread, I will.

I like Dusty Baker, but he's totally off-base. If he meant to comment on the fact that people with more melanin can withstand the sun's ultraviolet rays better than those with less melanin, perhaps he should have kept this to himself. (And darker-skinned or darker-haired people are more prone to sunstroke, whoop-di-do.) But I don't think this was what he was after, or rather, he was reaching for some larger racial justification. And he went much further.

What's upsetting to me is that 1) he doesn't realize how specious his comments are; and 2) as a result of not knowing he has failed to apologize for them; 3) he even attempts to justify this ignorance by referring to his mother having taught him "black American history"; and 4) since such nonsense comes out of a black man's mouth, MLB doesn't see anything wrong with it. I'm sorry, but he's giving "black history" and "American history" in general a bad name.

It's not that hard to look up, but blacks were not brought to the new world as slaves because they could withstand the sun better--disease tolerance, the lack of Indian slaves and changing religious and social views on Indian enslavement, the standing European slave system and the availability of Africans, and numerous other reasons underpin the widespread use of Africans as slaves. But "heat tolerance" was not the primary reason.

Finally, and I'm going to say this as a black person, but we all know that if a white person--or a white Latino--had said something along these lines, the media, especially black folks, would have been up in arms. It's Baker's right to say whatever he wants, but I do think that given that he's using this nonsense in justifying how he mans a team, somebody from MLB, along with a historian of slavery (I can recommend about 10 excellent ones, like Eric Foner, George Frederickson, Walter Johnson, Michael Gomez, etc.), should have a chat with him. Soon.

From SmoothRon:

As a black man myself, I totally agree with you fantomas, on all accounts. I respect Dusty Baker as one of the best managers in baseball, but not for these outrageous statements that he has made!! It was totally ridiculous and should be viewed as racist statements, even if they were made by a black man. To quote a journalist who blasted Baker on the idiotic statements that he made, "Dusty Baker needs sunblock for his mouth!!" I couldn't have said it better myself!!

Ironically, George W. Bush(currently on a 2 wk trip to the African continent), while visiting a major slavery deportation hub in Senegal yesterday, stated that slavery is one of the greatest crimes in world history!! For once, I totally agree with Bush on something!! This hub is called Goree Island and it was the MAJOR deportation hub for African slaves that were shipped to America. It is estimated that there were more than 20 million slaves held, sold, and shipped from there!! Just a little tidbit of history for my fellow Outsporters! It is now an international tourist attraction, and also, ironically, I have plans to visit there and other parts of Africa, next year, while tracing my ancestry!! I am really looking forward to it!!

Lastly, fantomas, you are so right in your double standard assessment, that if this had been a white manager making this same statement, it would have made for a media frenzy!! Baker shouldn't get a "free pass" IMHO, by blacks or anyone else for that matter, just because he happens to be black himself!! His statements aren't even scientifically factual, and his own mother should be appalled that he made those statements!!

From CPT_Doom:

Apparently I have not been reading the sports pages at all - how did I miss this one? These comments are ludicrous - if darker-skinned players really aren't running around with sunscreen on, they're idiots - anyone can burn, and any exposure to the sun can lead to skin cancer - sheesh!

I agree with both fantomas and Smoothron - there is no way any Caucasian could get away with these kinds of comments, and I'm sure I would have heard the story if it had been a Caucasian manager.

Not to mention, it is scientifically ludicrous. While it may be true that players who were born and raised in the tropics might be better able to handle the heat, you can't tell me that the African-American population of New York, or Boston, or Chicago or Detroit are any better able to handle the heat than their Caucasian neighbors. And being descended from slaves might account for some of the prevalence of disease in the African-American community, specifically diabetes and obesity (because those who had slower metabolism would be better able to survive the horrific Middle Passage), I can't believe it would have any effect on heat sensitivity. After all, my Puerto Rican brother-in-law is even more sensitive to the heat than my pasty-white Irish ass.

From George_vikingfan:

One aspect of this I don't understand is how Baker is defending himself and being defended by the arguement that he can say such things because he is black. In other words, there are certain things a black (or a Jew or a gay, etc) can say that no one else can. I don't neccessarily buy this premise; a gay man couldn't say what Savage said that got him fired from his radio show. I do get that words like nigger and fag and the like have different meanings based on who says them. So for this discussion, I'll go with the idea that certain groups can say things that others can't.

But Baker's comments didn't only mention blacks. His comments made direct comparisons between people of color and whites while using a subjective word like better. There is absolutely no difference between what he said and what Al Campanis or Jimmy the Greek said other than that they were said by white men.

Saying all that, I don't believe what any of them (well, except Savage!) said are fireable offenses. But if the precedent has been set for white men who make such asinine comments, then it seems as if Baker is getting free pass.

From Munson Man:

I agree with GV F, but I hope the opposite happens. That is, now that we've agreed that Dusty's comments were idiotic, just let him manage. With that precedent having been set, maybe the next time a white coach/GM/team official makes an equally stupid remark we can crucify them for it but not demand that they pay with their career. We all need to stop being overly emotional about racial and ethnic comments; maybe this will be the first step..........

PhillyFan:

It's 115 today.. as i said earlier... I aint going outside, think dusty wants to send the team over to do some yardwork for me? Dusty said "those kind" of people luv that outdoor work, they are more suited to it than me... thank god.

Good thing it wasn't hot when J T rescued Darren. He might have succumbed to the heat - a few seconds off his timing and there could've been one less Baker on the planet.

I found a good Op-Ed piece on the subject in today's Los Angeles Times. Sorry, the link might require you to be registered.

Too funny, Sportinlife!

But it's a vital difference. Anyone can see it's a fact of human interaction. Would a white comedian have performed Richard Pryor's material?

As wrongheaded and unscientific as Baker's comment was, it was not hateful. Just more meaningless fodder for Faux News and that ilk.

It's not meaningless. It speaks of this double standard where if a white man does something it's almost criminal. But if a black man does the same, we shrug it off.

It's illogical and (to me) smacks of being patronizing. It's like letting kids slide for doing things an adult would not do. Why can't blacks be held to the same standards as whites? Why is it "a vital difference"?

and so what if a whiteman can't do Richard Pryor's material? I don't think a black man could do Jeff Foxworthy's redneck schtick either. But what does that have to do with equal treatment and fair play?

I think an over-reaction to a white person saying something stupid does not justify over-reacting to a stupid comment by a black person.

HOWEVER: I wholly agree with you, ung, about the comment about a white guy not being able to do Richard Pryor's material. That's patronizing. Let's use a more current example: Chris Rock. Every third word out of his mouth is n----r. It's not funny. Black, white, red, brown, yellow, purple or green skin color: it's not funny. And it's stupid to say that a word that is wholly off limits to white people is the height of comedy if uttered by an African-American.

We're supposed to be all equal under the U.S. Constitution. We may not be there as a society, but I think it's still the goal. I don't see how we advance that goal by saying that certain words, or certain ideas, may legitimately be expressed by some people, of one skin color, but not others.

That said: I'm not offended by Dusty Baker's remarks. And I woulsn't be offended if they were made by anyone of any skin color. I think the comment was a little dumb ... but about as offensive as 90 year old Grampa using the word "colored" instead of African-American. Yeah, I'd rather he didn't say it, but what's the offense?

[ July 14, 2003, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Charlie in the Trees ]

I'm still waiting on Baker to bring his cubs team over to do some of my yard work in the hot hot sun... god knows i'm not going out there...

From columnist Scott Ostler in today's SF Chronicle:

"National League manager Dusty Baker added some star power to his [All-Star] lineup Sunday, naming his son, Darren, to the squad, saying, 'It's going to be hot, and little guys handle the sun better, being farther from it.'"

THUMP!

Actually smaller players should theoretically have an advantage in the heat. Their surface area to mass ratio is typically greater, so they dissipate heat more readily.

In another thread, Joe in Philly posted:

While I was in New York this week, I read this article in the NY Daily News on Dusty Baker's controversial remarks about African-American and Hispanic players being better able to handle hot weather than white players...

Congratulations, Cyd...except for the "baseball is boring" part, for which you will receive a merciless beating-at the next Outsports convention, if not sooner!


sportinlife replied:

The issue gets serious when a white player who happens to play well in the heat is denied the chance to even play because of the prejudice of someone like Baker.

Judge the individual by his performance, not his group, which he didn't choose. Baker screws every good player who happens to be an exception to his questionable rule, and maybe his team by not playing the best player. Maybe he should revisit that line in MLK's speech about "content of their character".

So did Reggie White, and we know how people reacted to his
words: "He's...um...<ahem>...right!"

The Texas Rangers have always had players of many pigmentations
and ethnicities and *always* has a summer swoon (sorry, Rangers
fans) so it's highly doubtful skin has anything to do with it.

More likely, Baker has been checking himself for prostate cancer
and forgetting to remove his head afterward.


Bob Dog

CITT, the reason I used Richard Pryor as an example is because when he used "n*gger," it was in context, and made artistic sense more often, than when Chris Rock does it. (I did think Rock's "n*ggers ruin things for black people" routine was brilliant. But usually I find his material too safe and lacking Pryor's depth.)

The humor in black comedians using the word is about pain and self-regard, which is not the case if a white performer uses it. (It will be identified as oppression the second it comes out of his mouth; and it usually just won't work.) Or as Joe Jackson sang, "Don't call me a faggot / Not unless you are a friend."

I still don't see much connection between Campanis and Baker. Campanis's comments clearly reflected MLB's bias toward employing minorities in management. Baker's were merely silly (though not as dumb as Carl Everett's on evolution last year ... didn't he say there were no dinosaurs?) and NOT RELEVANT to his profession.

I wouldn't want Baker teaching human biology, but he's an employable baseball manager.

[ July 15, 2003, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Bill W ]