Finally, the media are starting to report on Dubya's "problem" with the truth...

From the Washington Post:

For Bush, Facts Are Malleable

Good Reasons Aren't Enough for Bush

From the New York Times:

Dead Parrot Society

Oh my God, a politician (including a President) is caught not telling the truth. That's a new one.

[ October 25, 2002: Message edited by: pat125 ]

Bush didn't tell the truth? Heavens, how, uh, Clintonian of him.

Or Nixonian. Or Reaganesque. Oh wait, he just didn't remember anything.

[quote]Originally posted by conor500:
From the New York Times:

Dead Parrot Society

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I really like Paul Krugman

Paul Begala's response to Ari Fleischer's defense of President Bush:

"What is not excusable is misleading the country -- repeatedly, as The Post and others have noted -- about going to war. There is something odd about a White House that thinks misleading people about sex is a crime, but misleading us about war is good public policy."

Misleading the Nation About War

And here is Fleischer's letter from a few days ago...
Solid Facts From the President

On the Politics, Law and Autism site, there's a LOOONNNNNGGGG list of Bush's lies, some really quite outrageous. Clinton doesn't have a thing on this man.

To quote the article, both journalist Walter Shapiro and young conservative Jonah Goldberg have a go at Bush:

"In the words of Walter Shapiro in USA Today, we could conclude that Mr. Bush has a 'character flaw' which is 'deeply troubling.'"
"Is the Bush administration’s casual attitude towards the truth really relevant to any important issue? Jonah Goldberg of NRO assures us that it is:
[quote]No matter what perspective you come from, it seems hard to imagine how anyone can say that the character of the president is irrelevant…But all of this is such an old and flagrantly obvious argument which misses the simple, old-fashioned point. Presidents should try to tell the truth and be gentlemen.

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Mr. Goldberg further reminds us that:
[quote]Americans understand that truth telling matters, I think. I hope. And I thought the press understood this, but I'm changing my mind….But lying goes to the heart of politics and turns it black. It is always relevant….

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"

I'm not excusing GWBush's trouble with fatcs and figures.... I'm certainly not a fan of the younger Bush. But as has been noted by others in articles in the Times and the Post, GWBush is not the only one to bend the truth and/or lie to get his way. LBJ did that on a consistent basis vis-a-vis the Vietnam War.

Quite true, Ung. I was surprised by Goldberg's comments, though. As I used to say about Clinton, I can't defend some of his behavior because his predecessors did the same thing. W. has presented himself as something different, but he appears to be much closer to Clinton in the lying department than his father, who actually has risen in stature by comparison.

Is there something about intent in laws?

I guess none of this is breaking the law in a way that can be braught to court but intent is always the most important factor and I suppose the most difficult thing to determine.

Here is a very thorough and persuasive piece on Bush's congenital lying and on the media's complicity in propping this man up. A bit horrifying when you think about it.

Bush's Life of Deception, by Sam Perry

I did not think I could read anything that would ever leave me with less respect for George the Younger, until now. I have always held that a man who wasted (and was wasted) his years at some of America's finest educational institutions, and then managed to achieve absolutely nothing on his own as an adult did not deserve our respect. This article's collection of his lies, mistatements, and obfuscation only strengthens my dislike for the man. Had McCain won the presidency, I would have been just as worried about Republican control of the government, but at least I would have been able to respect the president.

As usual, it is always more powerful to see everything discussed in one piece, versus the one-by-one method. So much easier to dismiss or defend one point at a time.

I was watching CNN the other day and a political analyst made an interesting point. He discussed the whole Homeland Security thing. He pointed out that during this past election campaign, the White House consistently derided the Senate Democrats for holding up the Homeland Security Act. However, the Act was ready for passage for weeks. The problem was that the President did not like all of the language in the Senate version of the bill, and asked that the bill be stalled until the election so that he might have a chance to rewrite it to his liking. Not a Democtatic issue, but one of self-possession. It goes right along with what all these articles are discussing.

It is also interesting how about 50% of the people of our country are oblivious or willing to go along with this type of behavior. There was no mandate last week. The Republicans took back control of the Senate with just about 50% of the vote in 2 to 3 key swing states. The country is still as divided as ever about the current political situation.

[quote]Originally posted by charliecstl:

It is also interesting how about 50% of the people of our country are oblivious or willing to go along with this type of behavior. There was no mandate last week. The Republicans took back control of the Senate with just about 50% of the vote in 2 to 3 key swing states. The country is still as divided as ever about the current political situation.

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I would put the figure close to 100%, since both major political parties engage in that type of political behavior. Apparently, almost 100% of the voters elected Democrats and Republicans. Actually, I am sure many people do not like the current political environment, and then either choose to not vote, try to cut through the garbage and vote on the issues, or vote for the lesser of two evils.

[ November 13, 2002: Message edited by: pat125 ]

After watching "Journeys with George" I thought our President was a first class manipulator with an overriding urge to conquer people. After reading all the links posted here, I realize that everyone's worst fears about this president and this administration may only be the tip of the iceberg. The implication that all Presidents lie doesn't excuse George W. His life and his experiences don't add up to being President - it was bought and stolen. The nation is so bitterly partisan that Republicans are in denial about this man. And now our country is being deceived about matters of war and terrorism...yet the Republicans, including the ones here on this board, still think that Clinton's lying about Monica is the worst thing to ever happen to the white house. The Republican method of dealing with a Democrat as President is to attack, slander, and investigate the man for his entire eight years spending untold millions of taxpayer's money in the process. Perhaps the Democrats can address the Republican President by simply letting him go on and on until someone screams out: "The emperor has no clothes on."

So far, he's manipulated the Presidential election by using his brother's connections in Florida, he's failed to act upon existing intelligence and prevent the 9/11 tragedy, he's exaggerated the threat of war in order to manipulate midterm elections, and even after all the big Texas talk about getting Bin Laden dead or alive, over fourteen months have passed and public enemy #1 is still very much at large. Oh, yeah, and then there's the disastrous economy of which he knows little and says even less...

The Bush administration and all its supporters will have to face reality soon enough. Hopefully, it won't be too late for the country.

[quote]Originally posted by bryan d.:
And now our country is being deceived about matters of war and terrorism....

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Alex Jones...

Alex Jones...

Another thing about Bush's lies that really bothers me:

At least when Ronald Reagan planned to cut taxes for the rich, he openly admitted it and was proud of it, believing it would stimulate the economy - trickle-down ecomonics, supply-side economics, Reagonomics, whatever you want to call it.

But when George W. Bush plans to cut taxes for the rich, he denies that's what he's doing, and claims he's cutting taxes for all of us.

If you believe this will help everyone, say so. If not, just admit you're trying to help out the obscenely wealthy while screwing everyone else...

[ November 14, 2002: Message edited by: conor500 ]

[quote]Originally posted by conor500:


But when George W. Bush plans to cut taxes for the rich, he denies that's what he's doing, and claims he's cutting taxes for all of us.

If you believe this will help everyone, say so. If not, just admit you're trying to help out the obscenely wealthy while screwing everyone else...

[ November 14, 2002: Message edited by: conor500 ]

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True, but both parties are guilty of simplifying the issue, i.e., lying.

[quote]Originally posted by conor500:
Another thing about Bush's lies that really bothers me:

At least when Ronald Reagan planned to cut taxes for the rich, he openly admitted it and was proud of it, believing it would stimulate the economy - trickle-down ecomonics, supply-side economics, Reagonomics, whatever you want to call it.

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Someone once called it "voodoo economics", oh yeah, that was his daddy!

raze. You got it boy! Shrub is simply perpetuating Reaganomics in the 80's. You would think the Repuglicans learned something from their trickle down theories, which didn't trickle down to me!, but I guess not, unfortunately for us. It looks like budget deficits are on the horizon for as far as one can see.

[quote]Originally posted by bryan d.:

The Bush administration and all its supporters will have to face reality soon enough. Hopefully, it won't be too late for the country.

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None of Bush's supporters are going to face any reality except that he is in power, is wielding it like a jackhammer, and has the media in his back pocket. Whatever he wants, he gets.

Here's another interesting article, in New York Review of Books, by Elizabeth Drew. She basically details how the current administration disdains Congress except when the legislative bodies can do its bidding, and how it uses secrecy to press its will. Quite informative and of course, deeply disturbing.

The horror!! The horror!!!