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bobblehead
Those crazy REPUBLICANS... rolleyes.gif


[Post modified to comply with photo policy. - Outsports moderator]

[ March 03, 2004, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: m1 ]
bobblehead
[Post modified to comply with photo policy. - Outsports moderator]

Sorry! frown
gmginsfo
QUOTE
GatorJamie:
 
QUOTE
gmginsfo:
It was my receipt of the latest issue of The Economist...
...the magazine also known as gmg's favorite porn rag...

wink biggrin.gif
No way, GJ. Mine's "The Magazine of Sigma Chi!" biggrin.gif
maxallen
Letter to the Editor in today's Kansas City Star:

QUOTE
What's all the hubbub about same-sex marriages?

Imagine being married to the same woman for 25 years and having the same sex day after day.

Robert G. Cohn
smile.gif
RazorbackTX
QUOTE
PhillyFan:
So i'm watching CNN last night, yes CNN.  Seems that good ole AZ is a swing state kids.  If that is true my vote might mean something.  

Then they showed Kerry's speech.  All he said was, i'm opposed to the ammendment.  No more, no less.  He will avoid this issue in the coming months kids.  Why?  Because he doesnt support it,

Neither get my vote.
You already said you were writing me in!
coyoteugly
QUOTE
PhillyFan:
So i'm watching CNN last night, yes CNN.  Seems that good ole AZ is a swing state kids.  If that is true my vote might mean something.  

Then they showed Kerry's speech.  All he said was, i'm opposed to the ammendment.  No more, no less.  He will avoid this issue in the coming months kids.  Why?  Because he doesnt support it,

Neither get my vote.
Kerry will avoid the issue simply because YOUR Republican party will use any sign of support he shows to this issue to try and ignite a fire under the ass of his fundamentalist, faith-based drones...

President Bush will do anything he can to turn the gay marriage issue into this year's Willie Horton.

Just vote for Bush like we all know you are eventually going to do, and I will cancel your vote with my vote for Kerry.
bobby78751
QUOTE
coyoteugly:
 
QUOTE
PhillyFan:
So i'm watching CNN last night, yes CNN.  Seems that good ole AZ is a swing state kids.  If that is true my vote might mean something.  

Then they showed Kerry's speech.  All he said was, i'm opposed to the ammendment.  No more, no less.  He will avoid this issue in the coming months kids.  Why?  Because he doesnt support it,

Neither get my vote.
Kerry will avoid the issue simply because YOUR Republican party will use any sign of support he shows to this issue to try and ignite a fire under the ass of his fundamentalist, faith-based drones...

President Bush will do anything he can to turn the gay marriage issue into this year's Willie Horton.

Just vote for Bush like we all know you are eventually going to do, and I will cancel your vote with my vote for Kerry.
This will make my Kerry vote count! Ha-ha-ha-ha-haaaaah!
TomFord
Clutter, clutter, clutter, your name is Bobby.

If you don't stop with the pointless recopying of previous comments, I will vote for Bush just to cancel yours out.

We're not goldfish.
fantomas
TomFord, you've come over from the Dead Zone, so don't let quotes push you back! Bobby cool and means well--he's in Texas, so he's got to deal with the effects of the W crowd up close--it can do things to you, without a doubt!

(BTW, I did like you as a sharp black conservative type--you weren't excessively right wing, which made you almost adorable.)
TomFord
Aww, thanks man. btw you're my favorite person on this board. I think you should change your name to 'the voice of reason' cause you are.
Marc
Hopefully I'm not repeating info already on this thread, but I didn't have time to sift through ten pages of posts.

This morning I heard a CBC radio interview with Robin Tyler, a Canadian-born lesbian comedian living in Los Angeles. She has a web page in which she is urges Americans to pressure Mary Cheney to publicly oppose the Republicans on the same-sex marriage issue:

http://www.dearmary.com/mary/index.html

Prior to the interview with Tyler, there was a clip from an interview with Vice President Dick Cheney. When asked if he supports Bush's proposal to prevent same-sex marriage via constitutional amendment, Cheney said "I support the President. He sets the policy and makes the decisions." Interesting that he didn't say "I support the amendment". Living outside the US, I'm not all that familiar with the role of the VP, but my guess is that Cheney's remark is about as close to 'disagreement' (if you can even call it that) between a President and his VP on policy issues as it ever gets.

Robin Tyler called Mary Cheney a hypocrite and a 'moral coward' for her silence on this issue and that she should resign from her father's re-election campaign. While Tyler acknowledged that not all gays and lesbians necessarily want to or feel any burning need to get married (that's my own feeling on the subject, and perhaps Mary Cheney's as well), her point was that Mary should at least support the right of same-sex couples to get married.

Following the interview, it was mentioned that charges have been laid against the mayor of a town in New York state for officiating same-sex marriage ceremonies.
CPT_Doom
I was privileged to attend the anti-amendment rally on the grounds of the HRC building last night. It was a great feeling to be among so many (a couple thousand, at least - we filled the HRC yard, spilling out onto the sidewalks and all four corners of the block)who were as angry at Bush as I am - who were willing to fight this amendment and the people who are behind it.

Unfortunately, as a resident of DC, I can do very little. I have no voice in Congress, my non-voting delegate will never get a chance to weigh in on this amendment. But I know people outside of DC, and so do all of you. The speakers kept stressing that we must lobby our families and friends in other states, making it clear how this discrimination hurts gay families.

I have made the decision to write to all of my aunts and uncles, particularly those in Massachusetts. Although I believe all of them know I am gay, I have never actually outed myself to them, so this could be interesting. I don't know how many I will sway, but if it is only one person, that is enough.
CPT_Doom
Well, there's at least one conservative Christian politician who is not simply towing the anti-gay line, and he may lose his Michigan seat over it. This from the Kalamazoo Gazette:

QUOTE
 On most matters, Lorence Wenke is a staunch conservative.
   
The 58-year-old state representative from Richland Township opposes abortion and gun control. He backs small government and tax cuts.

A member of a fundamentalist church, he includes a verse of Scripture on his business card and participates in a Bible-study group for state legislators.

One would be hard-pressed to find a more unlikely advocate for gay rights.

Yet Wenke plans to be one of perhaps only two House Republicans voting against putting on the November ballot a Marriage Protection Amendment, which would change Michigan's constitution to ban gay marriage.

And he is opposing the bill, he said, out of a long-held and deeply felt belief that discrimination against homosexuals violates democratic principles and his Christian values.

Wenke has an old high school friend who came out of the closet, prompting him to study the facts about being gay - Wenke quickly concluded that being gay was a natural phenomenon, and so he could not discriminate against them. Unfortunately, the Michigan Family Association was not happy with his decision, and decided to leaflet his church to embarass him.

QUOTE
He said his vote \"will hurt me personally,\" and it already has.

Two Sundays ago, while Wenke and his wife were attending services at Richland Bible Church, the parking lot was blanketed with leaflets informing church members of Wenke's opposition to the Marriage Protection Amendment and urging them to take Wenke to task.

Gary Glenn, president of the Midland-based American Family Association of Michigan, which distributed the fliers, said, \"We thought it was an effective way to communicate with a constituency who we thought would be most likely to persuade Rep. Wenke to change his mind.\"

Glenn also said that, by opposing the proposed amendment, Wenke would be denying his constituents an opportunity to vote on an issue of vital concern, and there is little doubt it would hurt Wenke politically.

\"He's taking a standing contrary to President George W. Bush, against the Republican Party and against almost every Republican in the Legislature,\" Glenn said. \"It will hurt him and it should. ... I'm sure the people of his legislative district would prefer to have someone who will represent their views on something so fundamental.\"

God forbid the man actually vote his conscience.

Wenke supports gay unions
twin58
Just an editorial.

Dubya's Homophobia

QUOTE
By DOUG THOMPSON
Feb 25, 2004, 06:54
 
Well, well. The bigots, racists, homophobes and gutless wonders who dominate the Republican Party got their way.
....
The rest is scathing.
Jim Allen
Tsk, tsk, Twin, posting a link to an article that would get dinged by Godwin's Law. For shame.
twin58
Yeah. Since I didn't use the words n*z* or h*tl*r, I guess that makes it a "Godwin by proxy."
Jorel
The following was an email sent to me. Just thought I'd share it with y'all:


DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE

Ronald Reagan - divorced the mother of two of his children to marry Nancy
Reagan who bore him a daughter 7 months after the marriage.

Bob Dole - divorced the mother of his child, who had nursed him through the
long recovery from his war wounds.

Newt Gingrich - divorced his wife who was dying of cancer.

Dick Armey - House Majority Leader - divorced.

Senator Phil Gramm of Texas - divorced.

Governor John Engler of Michigan - divorced.

Governor Pete Wilson of California - divorced.

George Will - divorced.

Senator Lauch Faircloth - divorced.

Rush Limbaugh - and his current wife, Marta, have six marriages and four
divorces between them.

Senator Bob Barr of Georgia - not yet 50 years old, has been married three
times. He had the audacity to author and push the "Defense of Marriage
Act." The current joke making the rounds on Capitol Hill is "Bob Barr -
WHICH marriage are you defending?!?)

Senator Alfonse D'Amato of New York - divorced.

Senator John Warner of Virginia - once married to Liz Taylor.

Governor George Allen of Virginia - divorced.

Representative Helen Chenoweth of Idaho - divorced.

Senator John McCain of Arizona - divorced.

Representative John Kasich of Ohio - divorced.

Representative Susan Molinari of New York (Republican National Convention
Keynote Speaker) - divorced.

The bottom line - "Don't let gays destroy marriage - that's the job of the
Republicans!"
twin58
QUOTE
Jorel
Senator John Warner of Virginia - once married to Liz Taylor.

Governor George Allen of Virginia - divorced.
John Warner's now on his third marriage, but I have my doubts about George Allen and a divorce. Try to verify that independently, as I've not heard of it elsewhere.
maxallen
The Kansas House of Reps has passed by 88-36 an amendment to the state constitution to ban same-sex marriage. This week it goes to the Senate, where 30 of 40 members are Republicans, and it then will be on the November ballot for a statewide vote. No two-year amendment process here!

I've written to my Rep and Senator, and well as other legislators who've spoken out on the issue, and so far have only gotten a response from my Democratic Representative. Here's what I wrote to them, and the response from my rep:
QUOTE
Dear Representative Storm,
I’m writing as one of your constituents to urge you and ask you to not vote for HCR 5033, the proposed amendment to the state constitution which would ban same-sex marriage.  

I read a statement by Rep. Dan Williams who said, “There’s no evidence that gay families create the stability in society we’re looking for.”  Ms. Storm, I ask you to consider, is there evidence that gay families create instability in society?  

In your district and every other district in the state there are many same-sex couples living together in long-term loving relationships, enjoying the friendship and camaraderie of our neighbors and friends, both gay and straight.  Never has my 11-year relationship with my partner had a negative affect on the traditional nuclear families or heterosexual couples in our neighborhood.  Never has my relationship caused a heterosexual marriage to break up or caused a heterosexual couple to have children out of wedlock, the two things that are truly a threat to marriage.

Please do not allow state-sanctioned discrimination to become part of our great state’s constitution.
At least I got one of the good representatives. Here is her response:
QUOTE
As you probably know, I did vote “NO” on HCR 5033.  I did this for a number of reasons, probably the same arguments you would use.  Basically, I just don’t think I could look anyone straight in the eye and explain a “YES” vote.  This was nothing more then a political move, and I can’t play politics with the Kansas Constitution.
Rep. Sue Storm
I haven't, and don't expect to hear back from the Republican Reps and Senators that I wrote. In this very Republican state the amendment is certain to pass, but at least I feel a little better having written to them.
canmark
Seattle to recognize same-sex marriage, although not offer it themselves.

QUOTE
Seattle's mayor said Sunday the city will begin recognizing the marriages of gay employees who tie the knot elsewhere, although it will not conduct its own same-sex weddings.

Mayor Greg Nickels was to sign an executive order Monday giving same-sex spouses of city employees all the benefits of heterosexual spouses, including health insurance.

He also planned to send a proposal to the City Council that would extend that recognition to employees of city contractors and protect the rights of all same-sex married couples in Seattle.

\"The basic message is one of fairness, and that is that people who are willing to make a commitment to one another, who love one another, and who are willing to take on the responsibilities of marriage ought to be able to, regardless of their gender,\" Nickels told the Associated Press.

 
hockeyTom
I got a letter today from my Representative here in Spokane, who is George Nethercutt ® Washington. Rather than offer the entire letter I will give a synopsis regarding the proposed amendment change to the Constitution. Mr. Nethercutt said that "amending the Constitution is very serious and should not be done frivolously. The Constitution is a document with which Congress is entrusted to preserve-not remake." He went on to add " I do not believe it is Congress' duty to excessively dictate change in the nation's moral landscape."
In closing Nethercutt said, " I believe it is states who should enact legislation that closely reflects the moral tenor of their communities pushing federal guidelines to the sidelines when possible."

I found this interesting, because Nethercutt has generally always voted for anything and everything that Bush has proposed since he has been in office, since about 1994 I believe, when he beat our former Speaker of the House-Tom Foley (D).
I am suspect about what he says though. This is a man who promised he would serve one term only, but has not, twice over now, and doesn't have a good excuse each time the elections roll around. The other reason I am suspect and will not support Mr. Netehrcutt is because he is going after Senator Patty Murray here in Washington. This I believe is the real reason behind his "moderating" views. Nothing more, nothing less.
TomFord
Two articles in the New York Times about the amendment today:

This one is about State Representative Karla Drenner, "Georgia's only openly gay legislator, who has become the most visible — and derided — opponent of an effort to enact a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage."

This one is about gay Republicans who still support Bush. It has 'Set Bobby To Explode' all over it.

[ March 09, 2004, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: TomFord ]
bobby78751
QUOTE
TomFord:
This one is about gay Republicans who still support Bush, despite his support of the amendment.  It has 'Set Bobby To Explode' all over it.
Okay, this is one thing this...uh-hum...lady has to say:
QUOTE
\"Right now, I am leaning toward Bush,\" Ms. Leber said. \"All the Democrats just rolled into Congress to vote for this gun-control bill. Somebody with my values and beliefs can't be a single-issue voter.\"
Okay...how about unemployment? How about the economy? How about plunging tax revenue? How about social security? How about Bush-Saudi connections to 9/11? How about corporate corruption The White House turns a blind eye toward? How about lies, lies, lies? She wants more than one issue, I'll list more for her. Stupid bitch.
TomFord
Karla Drenner's inspiring.

The pettiness of men who would be legislators is depressing: "She said her most conservative colleagues sometimes waited for the next elevator when they saw her in an otherwise empty one."
wade n atlanta
Tomford, Idon't subscribe, can you print more of the articles? thanks. I transcribe a letter I got from my chickens**t today.
TomFord
Okay. (But you do know that it's free to subscribe to the online edition of major papers, right? You can get free access to that week's stories--you only have to pay for stories that are older than a week.)

QUOTE
Gay Legislator at the Center of a Storm in Georgia
By ANDREW JACOBS

Published: March 9, 2004

ATLANTA, March 8 — In contrast to the mundane mementos that dress the offices of most politicians, State Representative Karla Drenner has chosen to hang a startling array of images that show her crossing the finish line of a half-dozen recent marathons, sweat-soaked and jelly-legged, her face contorted in pain.

The photos are a source of strength to Ms. Drenner, Georgia's only openly gay legislator, who has become the most visible — and derided — opponent of an effort to enact a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage. The emotional turmoil she feels is often reflected in the agonizing expressions of those finish-line portraits.

\"When it gets real bad, I think about the 24th mile, the come-to-Jesus mile, when you've got blisters on your feet and your whole body aches,\" said Ms. Drenner, a Democrat from suburban Atlanta, glancing up at the pictures. \"For me, the finish line here is when this country doesn't care who you love.\"

Although the measure has already passed the State Senate, it is stalled in the House, where a handful of votes are still needed to put it on the November ballot. Polls show that voters would overwhelmingly approve the measure.

Since the proposal was first introduced in the General Assembly last month, Ms. Drenner has become the public face of resistance. She frequently appears on the nightly news here, sparking plenty of hosannas from supporters, but also a torrent of venomous e-mail and telephone calls. She said her most conservative colleagues sometimes waited for the next elevator when they saw her in an otherwise empty one.

And at a protest outside the Capitol last Monday, she found herself buffeted by a vocal gantlet as she passed the crush of anti-gay demonstrators. \"There wasn't a lot of love and light flowing from that crowd,\" said Ms. Drenner, 42, a mother of two young children who speaks in the sugared y'all-come-back-soon accent of her native West Virginia.

But just as troubling as the invective on the street, she said, is that her allies in the Democratic-controlled House have largely joined Republicans in voting for the amendment.

Ms. Drenner says many legislators have privately apologized to her for their stance and asked forgiveness, saying they fear that a no vote will doom them in November, when the whole legislature is up for re-election. Ms. Drenner, who has become respected by many colleagues since her election four years ago, refuses to grant forgiveness, relating those conversations this way:

\"They say, `It's not about you,' and I respond, `How can it not be about me?' I try hard to make them see that it's just as personal as can be when they're looking at me.\"

Representative Len Walker, a Loganville Republican who sat next to Ms. Drenner during her first term in office, was one of a dozen lawmakers who took to the floor last month to plead for the amendment. Although Mr. Walker said he cherished their cordial relationship, it did not sway him from his position. \"Representative Drenner is such a close and honored friend of mine, I love her dearly,\" he said, \"and that's what has made this debate so difficult.\"

Still, several lawmakers said the measure would probably have sailed through the House had it not been for Ms. Drenner. Senator Vincent D. Fort, a black Atlanta Democrat who opposes the measure because he believes it is discriminatory, said he asked her to sit in the Senate while that chamber debated the same amendment three weeks earlier.

\"I think she provides a moral presence on the issue,\" Mr. Fort said. \"She also allows them to see that she doesn't have two heads, that she's not a monster.\"

Ms. Drenner's emergence as Georgia's gay rights standard-bearer is something she says she never wanted. When she first ran for office in 2000, she spoke about education, health care and environmental issues while campaigning in her largely poor district, next door to Atlanta. Sexual orientation rarely came up, although she did not try to take advantage of hers or deny it.

The state's largest gay rights organization, sticking with a veteran politician who had been friendly to its views, endorsed her opponent.

Ms. Drenner won by 83 votes, defeating a four-term incumbent whose husband led the De Kalb County Democratic Party.

Once elected, she electrified the chambers and the public. Newspaper profiles called her \"the lesbian legislator,\" noting that she was the only openly gay state lawmaker in the Deep South. Some lawmakers resented that a freshman was getting so much attention. A fellow House member, she recalls, holding up a copy of his hometown paper, told her, \"I think it's a shame that you're so morally reprehensible that your sins should be on the front page of my paper.\".

When she tried to join committees focused on education and children's issues, she says she was asked to back off. \"I was told people would see me as a pedophile,\" she said.

The first public brouhaha over her sexuality erupted after the legislative directory printed her partner's name next to the heading \"spouse.\" The Christian Coalition joined several members of the legislature in protest, and she apologized, explaining that the questionnaire had not given her a choice. The uproar was quelled after it was agreed that the directory would substitute \"partner\" for \"spouse\" the next year.

Ms. Drenner is no longer living with the woman. They share custody of their adopted children.

Over the past three years, Ms. Drenner, who has two Ph.D's and works as an environmental consultant, has devoted herself to sexless causes: occupational safety, waste management and car insurance legislation. \"I've really never rocked the boat on anything,\" she said.

Her mother, an affirmative action officer in Charleston, W.Va., instilled her with a deep appreciation for civil rights, Ms. Drenner said. Her deep faith, revealed in frequent references to God and the Bible, comes from a strict Baptist upbringing.

Representative Stephanie Stuckey-Benfeld, a Decatur Democrat, said she and others had watched in amazement as events forced Ms. Drenner to become the focus of homosexuality in Georgia.

\"She never wanted to be pegged as the gay legislator,\" Ms. Stuckey-Benfeld said. \"This was thrust on her, and she's risen to the occasion.\"

In the late February debate, House members took their seats in rapt attention when Ms. Drenner spoke.

\"I am who God made me to be,\" she said, \"and I will tell you I was not raised to be gay. I make no apologies for that whatsoever.\"

She went on to say, \"I urge you to remember that we were all sent here to find ways to improve the quality of life for all Georgians, not to exclude your friends, your family and your neighbors who happen to be gay.\"

As she returned to her seat, the chamber erupted in applause.
wade n atlanta
Thanks, TomFord. I didn't realize the subscription was free, and I'm short on funds now.
I want to follow up that inspiring article with a letter that I just got from the Govenor of Georgia, Sonny Perdue. He is the first Republican elected govenor in a very long time, and was elected due to his support of the Rebel flag being put back on the state flag. He has since backed off that and is in bad with many red-necks.
Here's the letter:
Dear Mr. Holliday:
Thank you for taking the time to write me. I always want to learn of the concerns of the people of Georgia.

I have been following with interest various movements around the country to redefine the institution of marriage. Such discussions invovle very personal and deep-seated feelings. While citizens may hold opposite views, this does not mean one is tolerant and the other is hateful. I have respect for all the people of Georgia, each of us has the freedom to express his or her views.

Marriage between a man and a woman is, quite simply, the bedrock upon which our society is built. It is the crucial first building block of the family, which is the most basic and important unit of sodiety and democracy. It has stood as an institution from the beginning of civilization, and it should not be altered on a whim of a judge or city officials who disagree with state law.

President Bush (his words, Not mine)is courageously fighting for traditional values at the national level, and we should all support him in that effort. However, I strongly believe that states should not let federal actions abrogate our responsiblity. We should act quickly and with resolve to protect marriage in our own constitution.

I support a Constitutional Amendment protecting the institution of marriage. I have absolute trust in the citizens of Georgia to decide this November whether the sanctity of marriage should be preserved in our constitution.

Again, thank you for your message.

Sincerely,
Sonny Perdue

To say that this does not sit well with me, is an understatement.
bobby78751
Wade...did he actually write "deep-seated", I thought the correct expression is "deep-seeded". BTW, have I mentioned today how much I hate the word RESOLVE!?!? The Redumblicans use it all the time because their mutant monkey king uses it regularly.
m1
QUOTE
TomFord:
Two articles in the New York Times about the amendment today:
...
This one is about gay Republicans who still support Bush.
In another thread, DownLowNY posted

As the New York Times article illustrates, not even Bush's support of openly anti-gay legislation can stir Log Cabin Republicans from their slavish support of the GOP.
wade n atlanta
Bobby wrote:
did he actually write "deep-seated", I thought the correct expression is "deep-seeded".(?)

Yes he did. Our gov has a big butt. Or is it that it was actually a Freudian slip? hmmmmm
jqueer
[quote]bobby78751:
[quote]Okay, this is one thing this...uh-hum...lady has to say:
[QUOTE]\"Right now, I am leaning toward Bush,\" Ms. Leber said. \"All the Democrats just rolled into Congress to vote for this gun-control bill. Somebody with my values and beliefs can't be a single-issue voter.\"[/quote][/quote]Having been a journalist, I'm pretty sure this is the reporters fault, rather than the person being quoted, but she does come across as an idiot saying she isn't a single issue voter and then saying that she's voting for Bush because the issue of gun control (or lack thereof) is more important to her than gay rights.
azairforce
Log Cabin Republicans
what a Joke, how can you be gay and support the Republican party. Everything they stand for is against gays, I just dont understand at all. the Right wing part of the Republican party if they had their way we would so deep in the closet we would never come out again.
Its a damn shame here we are in 2004 with all the problems in the world and people are up in arms over gay marriages. its got my blood boiling
TomFord
There's stuff on LCR's response if you read back through the pages on this thread. You'll see that they came out strongly against the President.

Anyway, here's more. From today's Washington Post:

QUOTE
Gay GOP Group Challenges Bush on Marriage
Log Cabin Republicans to Air TV Ad in D.C., 7 States

In a dramatic break with President Bush, a prominent group of gay Republicans that supported him four years ago is launching a $1 million advertising campaign today attacking the administration for trying to ban same-sex marriage.

The ad, by the Log Cabin Republicans, uses grainy footage of Vice President Cheney saying during the 2000 campaign that the matter should be left to the states.

Bush's decision to endorse a constitutional amendment barring same-sex marriage was "the line in the sand" for the 27-year-old group, which has never run a campaign ad, said Executive Director Patrick Guerriero. He said he had warned the White House as Bush edged toward supporting an amendment that "despite our historic loyalty to the party and the president, we would be forced to speak out if gay and lesbian families were going to be used as wedge issues in swing states."

The group's move, which shatters the fragile alliance between the president and his strongest backers in the gay community, could undermine efforts to renew the "compassionate conservative" appeal he used four years ago.

The ad shows Cheney in the 2000 vice presidential debate saying of gay marriage: "People should be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to enter into. . . . That matter is regulated by the states. I think different states are likely to come to different conclusions, and that's appropriate. I don't think there should necessarily be a federal policy in this area."

The on-screen tag line says: "We Agree. Don't Amend the Constitution."

Cheney ducked questions about his earlier stance in television interviews last week, telling CNN: "I support the president. . . . He sets policy for the administration." Cheney's office declined to comment.

The 30-second spot likens the gay marriage effort to the civil rights movement, showing a protest scene from the 1960s and a sign that says "Colored Waiting Room."

Bush campaign spokesman Terry Holt said: "We respect differences of opinion in the Republican Party, and we feel that during this election the Republicans will unite behind the president on the big issues facing this country -- the war on terror and growing the economy."

The Log Cabin group, which claims more than 10,000 members, is the largest gay organization in the Republican Party. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) kicked off its convention last year, and top administration officials provided a briefing at this year's gathering. The group's chapters around the country often work with local elected officials.

Asked whether the group could still support Bush, Guerriero said the president has "jeopardized that endorsement" by "the hypocrisy of using this in an election year." He said that his organization has received hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations in the past two weeks and that the ad campaign could be expanded if fundraising continues to surge.
....

GOP pollster Tony Fabrizio, who conducted a survey for Log Cabin, said that only 3 percent of likely voters consider marriage an important election issue, and that four out of five who back a constitutional amendment already support Bush. "The people it matters most to in terms of banning gay marriage, he has them," Fabrizio said.

But the president could be hurt among the 25 percent of gays who, according to 2000 exit polls, said they voted for him.

Bush got off to a rocky start with the Log Cabin Republicans in 1999, when, as a candidate, he said he would probably not meet with the group because it would "create a huge political nightmare for people." He reversed himself months later and met with some of the group's local members, and senior administration officials briefed 200 Log Cabin members earlier this year.

"We were the only gay and lesbian group in America to endorse the president in 2000," Guerriero said. "You don't want to be taken for granted in American politics, and I believe we were."
DC_guy
I actually think the LCR has taken a strong stand on this issue since he actually endorsed the amendment. I'm sure it's a tough situation for them and may lead to the end of the group, so it took some guts. It sucks to see someone you support and look up to completely pull the rug out from under you.
bobby78751
QUOTE
DC_guy:
I actually think the LCR has taken a strong stand on this issue since he actually endorsed the amendment. I'm sure it's a tough situation for them and may lead to the end of the group, so it took some guts. It sucks to see someone you support and look up to completely pull the rug out from under you.
They have taken a stand but from what I have seen in interviews, I keep hearing from them that voting decisions should not be based on a single issue. How can they not see that this is NOT a single issue. In other words, hit us, stomp on us, kick us, put us in a pile and burn us...and we'll still betray our community and vote for you.

[ March 10, 2004, 07:17 AM: Message edited by: bobby78751 ]
CowboysHskrFan
I emailed them a few days ago to help me understand how they could possibly endorse Bush. They like to believe that by being in the party they are helping make a change in the GOP.

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gmginsfo
Actually, LCR has yet to endorse anyone. Unlike HRC, we don't endorse prior to primaries or the Convention; we bide our time - if we endorse at all. There's a world of difference between officially endorsing a candidate and supporting or not supporting him.
CPT_Doom
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They have taken a stand but from what I have seen in interviews, I keep hearing from them that voting decisions should not be based on a single issue. How can they not see that this is NOT a single issue. In other words, hit us, stomp on us, kick us, put us in a pile and burn us...and we'll still betray our community and vote for you.
From what I understand, if they out-and-out campaigned against the president, they could be prevented from having any role in the Republican Party, so this is as strong as they can go and still remain part of the party (no, I don't understand gay Republicans either, but if they want to stay in that party, I'll support them).

I am actually impressed with Gurriero's actions on this issue. LCR under his leadership does not have the same sense of being nothing but a Republican lackey group. They should hit the president, and hit him hard, on this one - and they will help ensure fewer gays vote for Bush this fall than in 2000, which might guarantee his defeat.
bobby78751
Anyone here who thinks the LCR will endorse anyone other than the Punk Ass Chimp speak up now! (insert sounds of crickets here) Thank you, traitors.
Joe in Philly
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gmginsfo:
Actually, LCR has yet to endorse anyone. Unlike HRC, we don't endorse prior to primaries or the Convention; we bide our time - if we endorse at all.
But by the time the convention rolls around the nominee is known, at least nowadays. I couldn't tell you the last time a nominee didn't have the delegate total clinched before the convention. So if you're not allowed to endorse a nominee from any other party, it's a done deal that either the GOP candidate gets the nod or no one does. And that means you really have little if any influence in the process. Not that endorsements of any kind are necessarily helpful -- look at the endorsements for Howard Dean. Or Madonna's endorsement of Wesley Clark. biggrin.gif
DC_guy
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bobby78751:
Anyone here who thinks the LCR will endorse anyone other than the Punk Ass Chimp speak up now! (insert sounds of crickets here) Thank you, traitors.
In all fairness, since they are a republican group, wouldn't they either endorse or not endorse the Republican candidate? I don't think it would make sense to endorse Kerry. Maybe I'm wrong about endorsements though.
RazorbackTX
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gmginsfo:
Actually, LCR has yet to endorse anyone. Unlike HRC, we don't endorse prior to primaries or the Convention; we bide our time - if we endorse at all. There's a world of difference between officially endorsing a candidate and supporting or not supporting him.
And the world waits with bated breath, sitting on pins and needles....waiting to see if the Log Cabinetts will endore their hero, the "uniter not a divider."


"Inclusion wins!!"
SheaBoy
You can see the "we agree with Cheney" commercial on the Log Cabin website.
TomFord
Muff-diving runs in the family according to Lloyd Grove's Lowdown column:

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Lynne Cheney's still-remembered 1981 lesbian romance novel, \"Sisters,\" was feted Monday night in a special performance by the \"Lynne Cheney Players\" - to the delight of an audience of liberal East Village types.

The performance at the New York Theatre Workshop was part of a celebration of left-leaning radio personality Laura Flanders' new book, \"Bushwomen: Tale of a Cynical Species.\"

Yesterday, Flanders told Lowdown that Cheney's novel \"is a breathy, gothic romance, horribly written. It's celebrating lesbian love and promotes the value of preventative devices, condoms, to women who want to remain free. It features a woman who has unmarried sex with the widow of her sister - all this by Lynne Cheney, the culture warrior of the right.\"

Monday's crowd of 200 - which included actress Janeane Garofalo - laughed throughout the satirical staging.

Choice scenes adapted from \"Sisters\" included one in which two female characters write to each other: \"Let us go away together, away from the anger and the imperatives of men. We shall find ourselves a secluded bower where they dare not venture. There will be only the two of us, and we shall linger through long afternoons of sweet retirement.\"

One of Cheney's characters swoons to a Sapphic love letter: \"How well her words describe our love - or the way it would be if we could remove all impediments, leave this place, and join together ... Then our union would be complete. Our lives would flow together, twin streams merging into a single river.\"

Vice President Cheney's wife has been silent on the hot-button issue of gay marriage, although their 34-year-old daughter, Mary Cheney, is openly gay. President Bush has come out in a support of a proposed constitutional amendment that would ban gay marriage.

\"Here's a whole book where she gloried in lesbian love affairs,\" Flanders said. \"The hypocrisy is rank.\"

Lynne Cheney's spokeswoman didn't respond to Lowdown's request for comment.
jqueer
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From the Washington Post article:
Bush campaign spokesman Terry Holt said: \"We respect differences of opinion in the Republican Party, and we feel that during this election the Republicans will unite behind the president on the big issues facing this country -- the war on terror and growing the economy.\"
It's not that I can't imagine a bigger issue than rending the very document we use to govern ourselves into pieces of irrelevant vitriol, though I can't. It's not that I vehemently disagree with the president on his handling both the war on terror and the economy, though I do. It's not that I find the man personally reprehensible for numerous reasons, though I do. It's that this quote from a presidential spokesman once again trivializes the needs and asspirations of millions of Americans. In a sentence he entirely dismisses the idea that standing up for oneself and one's community in the Republican party is any use. Relegating LCR to the metaphorical back of the bus, Holt demands loyalty but offers nothing in return. If proof was needed as to the political and moral bankruptcy of the current administration, Terry Holt has officially removed any doubt.
Jim at Outsports
There is an excellent feature in today's LA Times (may need to register; alas, they didn't run the pics) on the SF marriage of David Knight to his partner. Knight's dad was the bigot who pushed the anti-gay marriage ballot prop a few years ago. Here is the money quote and it applies to all those who say they still might vote for Bush:

"I love my father dearly and I miss him," David Knight said. "But if he's going to continue to attack something that affects me and affects my friends, and do something that I believe is wrong, I can't just not try to make my own statement. I'm out here to confront something I believe in very strongly — and that he believes in very strongly the other way."
TomFord
This is great--shows how the "defense of marriage" is just a cover for fear and hatred of homosexuality:

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\"They want to be visible; they want to be accepted as normal people living a lifestyle that should be accepted as normal. That's the problem. If they weren't pushing so hard to be out and accepted, I don't think anybody would care,\" the senator [William \"Pete\" Knight, R-Palmdale] told The [L.A.] Times in a 1999 interview.
bobby78751
California Supreme Court has ordered a halt to gay marriages in San Francisco. sad.gif CNN is reporting this.
kalabro
Well, the bad news is the California Supreme Court has halted gay marriages; the good news is Massachussetts seems to be close to a compromise concerning civil unions.

I wonder if we're not heading toward a "separate-but-equal" union vs. marriage compromise. And is that necessarily a bad thing?
gamecock
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kalabro
the good news is Massachussetts seems to be close to a compromise concerning civil unions.
Why do you consider this to be "GOOD", kalabro? :confused: ....in light of the three votes last month in Mass. (before the Constitutional convention reconvened today) that did NOT ban gay MARRIAGE, I consider this "compromise" GIVING us civil unions to be a definite LOSS!

The only good news to come out of Mass. is that the absolute earliest date that this proposed amendment to BAN GAY MARRIAGE can be placed on the ballot and go before the voters is Nov. 2006 (assuming it passes TWO sessions in the State House first, that is)....as a result, even today's BAD decision will NOT in any way stop gay MARRIAGES from commencing in the commonwealth on May 17th! smile.gif

Perhaps you feel otherwise, kalabro, but I am not satisfied with ANYTHING LESS than MARRIAGE and FULL EQUALITY!....despite the anti-civil union rhetoric that we are likely to hear once again from the ultra right-wing religious conservatives in my view they can take their separate but equal "compromise" and stick it where the sun don't shine!! :mad:
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