She's got my vote in 2008. The comment about how the current Republican House is run like a "plantation" just has totally revived my liberal juices.

She'll be unbeatable.

I'll take three signs for my yard and two bumper stickers for my car. PhillyFan, how many signs would you like in your yard? I just know you have a thing for powerful, intelligent women! Kidding aside, I hope she runs and wins! It would be refreshing to have someone intelligent in the White House.

Before Hillary, I'd vote for:
* the dead guy
* a man caught f**king a corpse, even if its his father
* a donkey that can toss rings over a cone with his nose
* Vladimir Putin (he's more conservative)
* Julia Childs (another dead personage)
* other dead women (PF will appreciate this)

So, Herr, will that be two signs or three for your yard?

I wish Oprah would either be her running mate, or run herself. One of them should be president. But If Hillary does run, I'll be in line when the polls open to cast my vost for her.

HeeHee..."First Husband, William Jefferson Clinton LOL"

What the Dems need to win is someone who can turn a few red states blue. She might have a shot at doing that in Ohio and Florida, maybe Nevada (which was always solidly red, but which could be flipped due to population shifts), but she could also very well turn off voters in states that had been solidly blue but in which Dem support has softened (Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin).

The one thing I will say is that our presidential elections have shown that voters don't always go with the guy (or gal) with whom they agree on the the issues. Reagan's policies were often very unpopular, but he had a walk of an election in 1984. Likewise, the vast middle of the country weren't entirely on board with W in 2004, but he won re-election. Why? Three reasons: first, he, like Reagan, was the more likeable candidate. Each seemed more home-spun, less egg-headed than their rivals. Second, even if a voter disagreed with Reagan or W, the voter knew something about his character. Third, the voter knew where the candidate stood on the issues and the voter knew where the candidate wanted to take the country. I'm not so sure Hillary can defeat any of the major GOP candidates on any of the likeability/character/vision tests.

My fears exactly, aquaman...I just want the Dems to pick somebody who can definitely win the next election. Our country doesn't need 4 (or 8) more years of Repub control. I'm not sure that Hillary can win if she runs, especially against a more moderate Repub candidate.

Personally, I would vote for her and be fine with her presidency; however, ensuring a Dem victory with a different candidate is more pressing at this time.

I would tend to agree with you aquaman. As much as I like Hillary, I still have my doubts as to her electability. There is still alot that can happen in the next 2 years, and I am going to be watching and listening over the course of time. If she does decide to run, I think her choice as V.P. would be of great interest, but its pretty clear as you said that the Dems. need to broaden their support and pickup some additional states than just the ones we can always count on.

She'll have a very difficult time getting past the electoral lock, as aquaman above alludes to, unless, of course, the Republicans nominate some doofus who will alientate their base.

BTW, I find it fascinating that in 1994, Newt Gingrich said the same thing about the Democrats running the House--"a plantation"--and he got blasted six ways to Sunday by the press and black groups. Hillary says it, on Martin Luther King Day of all days, and there's not a peep from the Left.

Oh! The hypocrisy!

[ January 19, 2006, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: MIB ]

Now did he get "pilloried"? I just checked the archives of the Washington Post and New York Times, to pick two "liberal" papers. He wasn't "pilloried" at all, and was elected as Speaker shortly thereafter. So you've made your assertion, now prove it. And remember to cite your sources.

[ January 19, 2006, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

He admitted it in a television interview two nights ago. And no, I didn't TIVO it.

His being elected Speaker is irrelevant. Rep. Blunt is tied to Abramoff, but Repubs just might be stupid enough to elect him their new Majority Leader.

[ January 19, 2006, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: MIB ]

A TV interview with whom, "judge"? Any proof--even that HE's telling the truth? Or do you just accept Republicans' statements as the "law"?

He was being interviewed by Alan Combs, if my memory serves me correctly, or it could have been someone else. I didn't pay attention to the interviewer, just the interviewee, especially the part where he explained his letter and $300,000 fine.

As AmericaBlog points out, the GOP and conservatives are quite fond of the "plantation" reference, and have hardly been pilloried for it.

GOP on \"Plantations\"

A mind is a terrible thing to waste...on quoting Gingrich.

As you would often excuse, it's completely different when those GOPers said that. You see how it sounds now, when liberals do things it's OK, but when conservatives do the same, it's not.

BTW, nice deflection in this whole thing. Instead of addressing the issue of Hillary's racist and inappropriate comments, you go off on the GOPers who said stuff in the past. Doesn't surprise me, of course.

As Barack Obama said, Hillary was right. The House is run like a "plantation." Sounds like quite an appropriate metaphor to me. I'm descended from slaves AND slaveowners and I'm not in the least offended.

Now let's see you fly off the handle about the Republican uses of the term, especially given that some of them are well-known racists, like Rush Limbaugh.

[ January 19, 2006, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

On a plantation Obama is not allowed to speak... nor would anyone care what he thinks (kinda like now).

With Hillary running her plantation and all.

Just like kids that take a village... sumthin like that.

I know. It also doesn't surprise me that FT is defending Obama, because there is NOTHING that boy can do that would earn FT's ire. The very fact that Obama had to twist and turn in the wind to "explain" his comments (excuse them, really) was evidence enough that even he knew they were inappropriate. Of course, he's just toeing the party line. Goose step those boys into line!

The use of "plantation" was abhorrent when Republicans used it; it's abhorrent when Hillary used it. In fact, it's even worse when she said it because (a) she did so on Martin Luther King Jr. Day in a black crowd, ( she's a sitting U.S. Senator, and © she's a former First Lady. Despicable, utterly despicable. However, we're not talking about the past--FT likes to deflect the current issue. We're talking about the here and now, about someone believed to be running for president.

Obama is not a "boy," he's a man. A damned brilliant and visionary one. He's also your junior Senator.

Of course, if he was a white Republican, you wouldn't be saying this.

Even though he's taking marching orders from the party, he's nowhere near the wimpy, disgusting piece of crap Durbin is. I'd take a dozen Obama's over 1 Durbin any day of the week.

Yeah, I'm officially changing my party affiliation to libretarian if Hillary is the Dem. candidate in 2008.

If you change it to Libertarian permamently I might propose marriage to you... wink

Will you two then move to Canada? Besides, they're wanting to repeal anti-polygamy laws there now, so maybe PhillyFan can join in. eek!

MIB, what's your beef with Obama? Is it only that he is a Democrat and you can't stand the truth? He's a damned fine politician, and a good looking man. What more do you need? I wish he would run for President.

I say Hillary should start work now on her concession speech.

LXN

Hopefully that concession speech will be delivered in any month not beginning with "N."

The principled liberal columnist Molly Ivins takes a stand:

Not. Backing. Hillary.



[ January 23, 2006, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: Bill W ]

I have no beef. As I said above, I'd take a dozen Obama's over 1 Durbin any day. The latter is a piece of filth.

Millerbro, I agree with you that Obama is better than Dirtbin, but he dropped a few notches in my book yesterday because of his waffling on "Meet The Press." He's still got a way to go before he can be called brilliant or visionary, and he could can cliches like "I support the troops, but not the war" if he wants to be either. Give me something TRULY original if you want to be considered great, Senator!

FT, re: your reminding MIB that Obama's his Senator, cf. "Not In My Name."

gmg, Obama is indeed my senator, and I am not ashamed to state that. His image alone is so much better than Durbin's. I'd respect Obama, and any other politician, more if he learns to be more principled and not toe the party line just because he has been told to do so.

I don't know yet if Obama has said he's voting for or against Alito, but I'd be shocked if he does, because I'm sure he's had contacts from Durbin and others of the radical Left ordering him to vote no. This does not show independent thought or principles.

[ January 23, 2006, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: MIB ]

Obama is going to vote against Alito. I think he saw through Alito's charades at the hearings, the false drama involving his wife, his non-answers, and his clearly stated Bork-ian originalism. In fact, Alito may be lucky to get votes from Chafee and possibly Snowe and Collins. When even Joe "Love mesomeWarrantless Wiretapper" Lieberman says he hasn't ruled out a filibuster, it's clear that Alito won't be sailing through. This is why Frist canceled the pre-vote floor discussions.

I caught Obama on "Meet the Press", and find him to be highly intelligent, and having a fair amount of charisma, maybe not the charisma of say Bill Clinton, but I do find him somewhat charismatic. The Dems. need this mans intelligence and backbone right now. Did he answer eacha nd every questions. Maybe not, but what politican does? I think he is going to make a name for himself soon.

Getting back on topic now, there's a great op-ed by Shelby Steele in today's WSJ concerning HRC and comparing her to Condi Rice. Link to piece.

"False drama," FT? Mrs. Alito's tears weren't those of a crocodile - or even of a cynic, assuming they haven't lost their ability to cry. They were the only "reality TV" on TV that day. It's clear you don't like the Judge, but don't gratuitously trash his wife for loving and supporting him in the face of spurious attacks.

[ January 23, 2006, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: gmginsfo ]

plantation??

I think all the black republicans in the House should get together and...oh wait, never mind.

I'd like to point out gmg that she only weaped when a senator defended him, not during the berating he got. Just for clarity.

What an insensitive hypocrite you are! Shame on you. A good man's wife was devastated by the blatant lies said about her husband by a bunch of amoral, disgusting, hypocrites, and you call it a charade.

Had the tables been reversed, you'd be screaming your lungs out, ripping the insensitive Republicans for making a Democratic nominee's wife break down.

Regarding Obama, it is truly sad that a man who descended from slaves doesn't even realize he has become enslaved to a party that exploits his race and takes for granted their votes.

BTW, IF a filibuster does occur, it will be for one reason and one reason only: the Democrats are under the control of the radical Left, who is fiercely demanding a filibuster, and why? Because they realize they've lost. It's over. As someone once said to the Left: You are beaten.

[ January 23, 2006, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: MIB ]

And your point is...? A little psychology would explain that when someone is getting falsely accused, such individual--in this case one's spouse--becomes angry, then when a comforter calms such person down and sensitively summarizes the attacks, the spouse's emotions turn from anger and fury to hurtful sadness.

Oh please, not even you believe this crapola, MIB. She was coached by Lindsey Graham, and when that Brand woman who works for Warrantless Wiretapper and Rove leaned over and whispered into her ear to go into her theatrics, Ms. Bomgardner (why doesn't this good Republican woman have her hubby's last name? Didn't Republicans crucify Ms. Rodham Clinton over this--Oh, the hypocrisy!) did her part. Only it was just too transparent. Too bad Arlen or Pat Leahy somebody else didn't just say, "Lady, stop the crying," as happened more than once on Donald Trump's and Martha Stewart's "Apprentices." Senator Trump would have been able to stop that foolishness in a heartbeaet.

Obama is a great Senator, and if he recalls who provided him with his landslide victory (if I remember, MIB, you were calling him every manner of horrible Leftist, etc.), he'll filibuster till he's blue in the face. And little Durbin, another great Illinoisan, will definitely be doing his part. Also, although Obama's African-American, he's not descended from slaves. Now even you should know that; his father was from Kenya, and his mother is a European-American. Maybe indentured servants, peasant farmers or folks who came by on steerage, but then that would comprise a huge portion of the White people running around the US...except Kerry and the Warrantless Wiretapper, who're bluebloods descended from Emperor Charlemagne (which is probably why Warrantless Wiretapper fancies himself a King!

[ January 23, 2006, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

Uh huh. Even many liberals haven't liked the guy. He just wreaks with slime and amorality. The guy's a complete scumbag. If it wasn't for the black vote, he'd be on the corner of I-290 and First Ave. selling M&M's.

Okay, I just think it is important to point out she didn't break down during the berating. Semantics, semantics. Also, I really don't hold much sympathy for her. They knew senators were going to go after his character. Politics are tough, get a helmet.

[ January 23, 2006, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Illini_fan ]

Excuse me, but would you stop impugning Black people? Dick Durbin won a MAJORITY of the vote in his last election. Including the WHITE voters. I know it burns you up, but most Illinoisans aren't as fixated on blastulas and Warrantless Wiretapper Worship as you are. There's always Indiana, just next door.

The topic here is Hillary Clinton, not Obama. I think she has the magic and charisma of her husband to pull off a presidential victory if nominated.

And her comment about the Bush administration probably going down as the worst administration in U.S. history, I can't disagree with that.

Oh please, Hillary doesn't have a rat's chance in hell of getting elected. Say what you will about Gore, but he won 500,000 votes than Warrantless Wiretapper and nearly made it to 50%, while Kerry ended up at 48%. Hillary would NOT WIN ONE STATE outside the East Coast, West Coast, and upper Midwest. Seriously. She would probably win Illinois (where she was born) and Michigan, but I don't even think she'd win Wisconsin, Iowa, or Minnesota, without which she ain't going to the White House. Would she win even ONE Southern state? No. Would she win any states in the Rockies? No. Would she even win New Mexico? Well, if enough new immigrants become citizens, maybe. Would she win Florida? No. She doesn't have a chance. I wish Democrats would just stop fixating on her and move on. Obama, Warner, Schweitzer, Edwards, Clark...hell, even Gore and Kerry have a better chance that Hillary. She'll win New York State handily, but that's about it--it won't be 1908, but 2008. The electoral map does not work in her favor.

Um, Fantomas, I speak for the entire state of Indiana. We do not want MIB. He's all yours, baby!

Only fools and lemmings like Durbin. Hell, not even the state's leading newspapers like him. Face it--the guy's scum. Pure slime.

Indiana wants me...Lord I can't go back there....

And if that's where millerbeach is located, I'm certainly not going back there.

Good! We certainly don't need your type in our state. By the way, if you are looking for my home, it'll be the one plastered with Hillary yard signs.

Just like all the other trailers that litter the state I'll bet. I think that was your yard I once saw on Blue Collar TV.

Why wouldn't Hillary be able to capture the same majority that Bill did? Same ideas, same focus and coming off the worst administration in U.S. history.

And any of the repug fools that are trying to claim shrub's throne, good luck...

Good point BillSF. I am afraid she doesn't have the same charisma that hubby Bill has, but with the proper spin, I think that could be overcome. If the Dems nominate her as the candidate, I will whole-heartedly support her, if, for anything else, because I really liked her husband as president.