Will they have the guts to acknowledge that not everyone believes that we are "a Nation under God"?

Here's hoping they do the right thing. Luckily Scalia has recused himself after having spoken out on the issue at a religious rally last year (and what the hell is a Supreme Court Justice doing speaking at a religious rally anyway?).

I like this comment of Michael Newdow, who filed the suit: "It's not a popularity contest. If something is wrong, it should be corrected. No matter how many people support it... It's also wrong from a commonsense perspective."

The same statement could be applied to same-sex marriage, and I think this ruling by the supremes could be a pre-cursor to how they would rule in one of those lawsuits.

However, the court may throw out the case if they decide that Newdow's not having legal custody of his daughter at the time disqualifies him from filing suit on her behalf.

[ March 24, 2004, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: maxallen ]

What always amazes me is how many of the right wing, bible beating psuedo-christians believe that "under god" has always been in the pledge. We survived for years without "under god" in the pledge prior to 1954 and we would survive without it in the pledge today.

Oh yea....I love the Supremes..

[ March 24, 2004, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: MichiganJock ]

If we put "under God" in cuz godless Commies were our enemy in 1954, shouldn't it come out now that our chief enemies are religious nuts? (Foreign and domestic.)

I was at a meeting last night where The Pledge of Allegiance was said. I didn't have a problem with saying "under God", but I did have a problem saying "with liberty and justice for all." I hadn't thought of this before, but I know it will be hard for me to say these words until that statement is true.

Plus, the author of the pledge, Baptist minister Francis Bellamy, was a Christian Socialist, and the cousin of Edward Bellamy, the noted socialist author of Looking Backward. I wonder if all the right-wing fanatics realize this? Probably not.

Perhaps the 1954 addition makes the whole thing palatable; otherwise, I guess, we couldn't be "one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." It certainly wasn't the case in the pre-Civil Rights South, even after the "under God" was added, just as it still isn't when it comes to homosexuals....

Thanks for that tidbit, fantomas - as a graduate of Edward Bellamy Middle School (he was a native of my home town), that's cool!

As far as it goes - it seems to me the "under God" part is nearly as innocuous as the "In God we trust" stuff on the currency. The only difference is the coercive nature of the pledge in classrooms.

I have more problems with the pledge in schools because it is enforced patriotism - we are requiring children to make promises before they are even old enough to understand the consequences. Do I believe everyone should love America? Sure - But I think that emotion should be genuine and not coerced.

And why exactly are we pledging our allegiance to a piece of cloth? I don't care that much about the flag, although I do care deeply for my country. Why is it not a pledge of allegiance to the country?

But it is: "...and to the republic for which it stands."

Kind of an example of how many (including me) often just recite the words without even realizing what they are saying.

Purdue, I don't feel ashamed at all when I recite the pledge and admit that I do pay attention to its words and its meaning. To me, the pledge means a lot. I cherish its words and its meaning and everything for which the flag stands. This doesn't make me any special patriot; rather, I am simply one who is proud to be an American and proud of our flag and its meaning. You won't find me grumbling about it or feeling embarrassed to recite its pledge. Life's too short to be as grumpy as those who feel this way.

Who said I was ashamed? Quite the opposite, actually. My point was that I have had this memorized since I was about 3 years old and it was always just a series of words. It wasn't until MUCH later that I even considered the meaning of the whole thing. Same thing with the "Star Spangled Banner." Since I am hardly an unusual person, I am assuming that others have had similar experiences. Nowhere did I mention shame, so don't question my patriotism.

[ March 31, 2004, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: Purdue Fan ]

Chill out, will ya, PF? Show me where I said YOU felt ashamed. I was speaking about those people who DO feel ashamed over the Pledge's words. Go back and reread my post and stop putting words in my mouth.

God! The people here are so damn sensitive!


P.S. If somehow my words implied I was talking about you specifically, then please accept my apologies. I was referring to people in general.

[ March 31, 2004, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: MIB ]

Good god, MIB!!! I'm sure Purdue Fan will address this himself, but since I've had a couple cocktails this evening...

Uh,... NOBODY in this thread said they were ashamed to say the Pledge, and since you started your post with "Purdue,..." What the f**k else was Purdue Fan (and everyone else who reads these boards) supposed to think?!?! Why did you address your post to Purdue Fan if you weren't talking about him?

Oh, jeez... Whatever.

I thought cocktails lessened one's hypersensitivity. Apparently not.

MIB: "Fear. Fear attracts the fearful, strong, weak, innocent, corrupt - Fear is my ally."

George W? Is that you? Ah! MIB's true identity.

After reading your post again, it did seemed to be addressed directly to me, and it did seem to be a contradiction to something written/implied in my post. However, I do realize that in a static environment like these message boards, some part of human communication is lost. In short, I accept your apology and regret the misunderstanding.

And MaxAllen, thanks for getting my back! wink

I'm sorry, MIB and everybody, about my slightly drunken "f"-bomb from last night, posted above. Sometimes MIB really sets me off, but I usually refrain from responding in the P&R forums. I see that his apology was added at just the same time I was ranting.

The funny thing is that in my tipsy state last night I wanted to dig into MIB for calling Purdue Fan "PF", because that's what most people call Philly Fan around here. Gawd, I really shouldn't drink and post. But it's so fun!

Any news on when/if the SCOTUS is going to hear this case, and when we would expect a ruling?

[ April 01, 2004, 06:47 AM: Message edited by: maxallen ]

Max, the Court heard oral arguments on this last week. A ruling will be issued by the end of their current term, late June/early July at the latest.

BTW, I guess calling Purdue Fan "PF" can be considered quite insulting, can't it? eek!

Well, I DO have this excellent knack for knowing how to get people off. eek! Oh, you mean set people off! Well, I DO try to make people think around here, but for some (present company excepted), this is impossible.

Why, is the other PF not charming and sweet like me?

by the way, anyone who has a problem with "God" in the pledge is a fricking idiot with WAY too much time on their hands.

They are just spending too much of that green stuff, you know... "in god we trust".

well... also by the way, I guess those people who placed the phrase "under God" in the pledge in 1954, must have been "fricking idiots" with way too much time on their hands too. Right? since they went through the trouble of putting that phrase into a pledge that had been perfectly fine already.

and does that appellation of "fricking idiot with too much time" also apply to those who spend so much time calling others "fricking idiots"?

[ April 01, 2004, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: ung ]

Exactly Mr. CNN!

How pathetic are you that you goal in life is to get "god" out of the pledge. I mean think about it. I for one never thought religion when saying it. I'm not religious, i dont like organized religion. Simply mean a higher meaning. Even higher than say, CNN.

This guy really needs to get a hobby... like say... hopscotch... russian rullet... quilting.

Better yet, let him move to Cuba, N. Korea, any god forsaken county in the middle east... then he'll see what life is really like...

The Congress passed legislation today forever banning the Supreme Court and all other federal courts from ever hearing cases involving the Pledge of Allegiance as well as issues concerning "under God" in the pldge. This will probably not make it to the Senate this year, but, still, this country is sliding into the dumpster.
CNN Story

[ September 23, 2004, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: bobby78751 ]