I thought I'd start a fresh thread to ask: irrespective of the arguments over where the reponsibility lies in the catastrophic aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, do people on this board think we as a country are prepared for another natural disaster or terrorist-caused crisis?

One reason I ask this is because I was in New York City several summers ago when the northeast blackout occurred. My partner and I had an ad hoc plan to meet up, which we did, without being able to reach each other by cellphone, and then we walked to the ferry to get back to New Jersey. For those of you who were not in the city, let me just say, there was MASS CHAOS. There were no instructions about how to evacuate; no news or information about what was going on; much of the city's communication systems failed immediately; people were wandering about in great confusion; traffic ground to a standstill and citizens began acting as traffic cops; the public transportation systems, which run on electricity, stopped, so people were trapped in tunnels and I believe under the Hudson River on the Path trains; and at the West Side ferry to New Jersey, there was a huge crush of people (I think they later said it was in the many thousands of people), with most behaving very well, but some people pushing past pregnant women and elderly people (several people fainted), leaping over them, or just acting like total Alpha Dogs. The police had zero information. The ferry authorities had zero information. Zero. They were as baffled and concerned as those of us trying to get out of the city.

It took about five hours to get back to New Jersey. I knew of people who were stranded for hours and hours and thought there might be a terrorist attack and that they'd die in the City. And that was just trying to evacuate New York. Immediately afterwards, New York mayor Mike Bloomberg, who supposedly had evacuation plans ready in the event of situations like this, faced some criticism, but then it died down. Now he is likely to coast to reelection.

But I thought again about the blackout and its aftermath when the events unfolded in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama. I'm very thankful that we have not experienced another terrorist attack on US soil, and I'll credit that both W and to luck, though terrorist attacks outside the US have surged since 9/11. (No one talks about the hundred bombs that went off in Bangladesh a few weeks ago.) But seriously, if local authorities AND the federal government react so ineptly to a natural catastrophe that occurs outside Florida, does anyone think they could respond in an appropriate manner if other regions, like Washington and northern Virginia, the Los Angeles or San Francisco regions, Chicago, the large cities in Texas, nuclear and chemical facilities anywhere, or, God forbid, New York again, were hit by some natural disaster on the order of Hurricane Katrina or a terrorist attack?

It pains me to say it, but I don't think this country is prepared at all. I have to ask, four years after 9/11, why aren't we prepared? Where has all the money gone? What are the people in control DOING? Why aren't they taking the threats seriously? Or is it that they ARE taking things seriously, but just not competent to take care of things properly? Is it even possible to do so?

[ September 10, 2005, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

The short answer is "no".

I think the thread question is obviously rhetorical. You are trying to give a reactionary mentality the ability to think ahead and be prepared.

Yeah the "Christians" at the top are merely marking their terroritory from the pinnacle of their dung heap. Manifestering Destiny, shit rolls downhill. They throw their shit in the fan to imbue us with their stench, a manure spreader. Spreading the stench of "Thee Agenda" on the green pastures so we produce and they can harvest us. If nothing else we will experience the miracle of flushing our toilets. We are just sending it downstream to Jesusland. Why do all the trees and rivers in Minnesota flow south? Jesus sucks. Christians swallow. It is all about the shit.

Yeah I am a bad person. But at least I am trying to wash off the fecal smear and soaking the brown brain stain in booze.

Yes, Eric, it was rhetorical, but with serious intent, and our "Heckuva" President has sort of responded, with a question and non-answer of his own.

"Are we capable of dealing with a severe attack? That's a very important question and it's in the national interest that we find out what went on so we can better respond," said George W. Bush himself.

A terrifying non-response, really, 4 years after 9/11....

Yes, FT, a good thread, and I'm sorry to say the answer remains no. And it will remain no until we ALL - not just our leaders - stop indulging ourselves with trivialities such as "reality shows," whether God hates gays, and other minutiae, wake up to the fact that we are much too blase about our national security, and actually DO SOMETHING at all levels to recast our national thinking in that regard.

Regaining control over our borders - ensuring our territorial sovereignty - would be a good place to start, and we could well start that effort right here in Southern California. Why the President is ignoring this issue is beyond me, and I and a lot of fellow GOPers are incensed with him over it.

Put down the incense and pick up a Taser! Why do you think he's "ignoring" it? Because multinational corporations and American businesses profit from the cut-rate labor that the illegal immigrants provide! You live in California, so surely you're aware of this. It keeps the union movement weak (a benefit for the Republicans), it means that factories and assembly-line, non-unionized workers, especially in make-work or anti-union states, have no chance of making living wages, and it means that we as taxpayers are footing massive bills for education, health care and so on that these corporations nor the immigrants' governments have to underwrite. And it's all just dandy for W, though two Democratic governors have had to declare a state of emergency because of the extremity of the situation on the Arizona and New Mexico borders.

It's also beneficial for foreign governments like Mexico, which have seen whole sectors of their economies, like rural agriculture, collapse completely in the wake of NAFTA, to outsource the impoverished farmers to the US. I read a few years ago how some places in Mexico, like Zacatecas, are literally seeing all their able-bodied males head north, since there are zero prospects below the border.

I'll tell you one thing: if there were millions of illegal sub-Saharan Africans alone (or Haitians) flooding into the US, George W. Bush would have clamped down on that border traffic a while ago. The Rethugs would have made sure he did so. (And more than a million Africans alone *have* arrived over the last decade, though they've been overshadowed by the tens of millions of people from Central America, primarily Mexico, who've arrived. But then, as I heard a Xicano activist say a few years ago, it was theirs first, so they're only reclaiming their property. Nuevo Aztlán, baby, and W's down with that, porque los rethuglicanos desean ganar la elección siguiente!)

[ September 14, 2005, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

Erik, hon, you might want to switch from scotch to meth. Your thinking is clearer when you're "mething" instead of "scotching". I've got to agree with gmginsfo. Hopefully, all this suffering in the south will cause folks to wake up and start working for things that are really important...like human lives. This may mean reinstating programs for the poor, rolling back the tax cuts for the super-rich, and worrying about our own people instead of countries half around the globe.

Yeah, you just want to keep me up all night trembling and quivering wink I'll be your immigrant worker that needs shelter and a "hot" meal.

I'll drink one for you Fantomas.

The bottomline is that our habits of consumption are not in line with our progressive politics. Every time you buy something you cast a ballot. You agree to reward those businesses for their abuse of labor. You buy sweatshop shit and disposable goods. "Can I please work for Coca Cola in Venezuela? :mad: Kestrel is now making their $$$$ bicycle frames from China. So basically none of your money is going to the craftsman that made your bike. That's f**ked and makes for a bad ride.

I guess so many people do not get it. Corporations are multinational. So labor and unions have to be organized multinationally. If your goods are imported you should consume in regard to international politics.

So it is all about the sell-out.

[ September 15, 2005, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: Erik G ]

Gary Fisher [edited: Gary Klein] used to build bikes outside Centralia or Chehalis WA. Not anymore? Aren't some pricey Cannondales still built in the US? What about independent framebuilders? The old Proteus Bikes in College Park MD used to offer courses in framebuilding. There was an outfit in Ashland OR that offered courses in framebuilding.

It can't all be gone.

Edited to add: K2 skis used to be made on Vashon Island WA, but they have a factory in China now. Probably the top of the line stuff still comes from WA.

[ September 16, 2005, 06:21 AM: Message edited by: twin58 ]

You are thinking of Gary Klein. There are similar outfits to the one you mentioned that are still around. There are some home-grown rides that are worth their price tag.

I spent too much time in the bike industry. I could be really bitter about their practices. Instead I refuse to buy their dangerous and ugly crap. When they give it too me I just give it to someone who needs it. I just ride my bikes and forget there are God and government. :cool:

Erik, don't forget...God invented scotch! Also, the idea of you being up all night is mighty tempting, but I'd never let you quiver.

[ September 15, 2005, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: millerbeach ]

Yeah, and God invented sheep too. I'll leave you satisfy them keep them from quivering Miller. I am just into the wool.

[ September 16, 2005, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Erik G ]