Say it aint so!
"In the presence of NAACP President Kweisi Mfume and other African-American leaders, comedian Bill Cosby took aim at blacks who don't take responsibility for their economic status, blame police for incarcerations and teach their kids poor speaking habits..."
"Cosby said, according to Leiby: "Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids – $500 sneakers for what? And won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics.'
He added: "They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is' ... And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk. ... Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. ... You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"
The Post said Cosby also targeted imprisoned blacks.
"These are not political criminals," he said. "These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake and then we run out and we are outraged, [saying] 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand?..."
Cosby!
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Now if a white person said advocated such...
it would be racism.
But since it is a 'black icon' - isn't it true?
:confused:
.
Full Version: Cosby: Blacks canned spik englis!
Oh, please. How many more times do we have to go over this. 
Yes, Bill Cosby can say this, and no, it's not racist. Hello, he's a black man, and as such, he has more liberty to criticize the African-American experience than does a white man.
It's kindof like, you can criticize your parents on any basis you want, but your friends do not have the same right to do so. In fact, it would be offensive. Especially if it were true. wink
Yes, Bill Cosby can say this, and no, it's not racist. Hello, he's a black man, and as such, he has more liberty to criticize the African-American experience than does a white man.
It's kindof like, you can criticize your parents on any basis you want, but your friends do not have the same right to do so. In fact, it would be offensive. Especially if it were true. wink
" Hello, he's a black man, and as such, he has more liberty to criticize the African-American experience than does a white man." (GJ)
Kinda like a gay man has the right to use the word fag... whereas a lesbian does NOT!
I hope the point is well taken big mama!
Kinda like a gay man has the right to use the word fag... whereas a lesbian does NOT!
I hope the point is well taken big mama!
Actually, GJ can say whatever the heck she wants.
When you look at any minority group.. gays, latino, black whatever... Why is it that no one is allowed to bring up anything negative?
Cosby has done many good things in his life. He gives back to the community... How is this not a good, valid point that he brings up?
The best thing about it is that it does not apply to only black folk. It applies to any parent.
When you look at any minority group.. gays, latino, black whatever... Why is it that no one is allowed to bring up anything negative?
Cosby has done many good things in his life. He gives back to the community... How is this not a good, valid point that he brings up?
The best thing about it is that it does not apply to only black folk. It applies to any parent.
QUOTE
hoop:
Kinda like a gay man has the right to use the word fag... whereas a lesbian does NOT!
Fag, dyke, fag, dyke, fag, dyke.Kinda like a gay man has the right to use the word fag... whereas a lesbian does NOT!
Welcome back, ironjohn8.
QUOTE
PhillyFan:
The best thing about it is that it does not apply to only black folk. It applies to any parent.
Precisely, Phil.The best thing about it is that it does not apply to only black folk. It applies to any parent.
Additionally, what hoop/ironjohn8/whatever-his-name-is gonna-be-next-week and others like him seem to miss is that Cosby is taking a huge deal of flack from the African-American community in DC (where he made the speech) right now. I'm not saying that he doesn't deserve patr of it, but it's interesting to watch any community fret when one of its sacred cows is questioned.
"The best thing about it is that it does not apply to only black folk."
Yeah... but it is only black folk that can't say "ASK" ... AKS?
"Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal," he said Monday night. "These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids - $500 sneakers for what?
"And they won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics.' ...
web page
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I bet yu got a deff pair of adidas... homeboy-philly!
.
Yeah... but it is only black folk that can't say "ASK" ... AKS?
"Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal," he said Monday night. "These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids - $500 sneakers for what?
"And they won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics.' ...
web page
____
I bet yu got a deff pair of adidas... homeboy-philly!
.
QUOTE
hoop:
Yeah... but it is only black folk that can't say \"ASK\" ... AKS?
Uh, no. Spend some time in southern Louisiana. White Cajuns (even fags and dykes wink ) say the same thing.
Yeah... but it is only black folk that can't say \"ASK\" ... AKS?
English speakers have been metathesizing the "s" and "k" sounds in the verb "to ask" for as long as the language has existed. I saw this in an Old English grammar once:
ascian; to ask. Dialectial forms; acsian, axian
I don't have a Middle English example of the same phenomenon, but I do know "ain't" is at least Renaissance English dialect as well...
Sorry, I'm a language nerd.
ascian; to ask. Dialectial forms; acsian, axian
I don't have a Middle English example of the same phenomenon, but I do know "ain't" is at least Renaissance English dialect as well...
Sorry, I'm a language nerd.
Thank you, owllover. Unfortunately, the originator of this thread seems to have done so solely to inflame. That was his m.o. under another screen name before he left in a huff, only to come back under a new name.
Pissy fags piss me off! :mad:
QUOTE
owllover711:
English speakers have been metathesizing the \"s\" and \"k\" sounds in the verb \"to ask\" for as long as the language has existed. I saw this in an Old English grammar once:
Thee art right!English speakers have been metathesizing the \"s\" and \"k\" sounds in the verb \"to ask\" for as long as the language has existed. I saw this in an Old English grammar once:
Back to Cosby, the difference is that when white people (like some of those white comedians) say such things about poor white people, no one assumes that they apply to ALL white people. But when a black person says such things about poor black people (and the wealthy black rappers who promote such behavior), there are numerous white people who will run around saying and believing that such criticisms apply to MOST black people. MOST of the more than 37 million black people in this country. In fact, there have been white people saying such things about MOST of the black people in this country since the 1600s. So this is why Cosby's comments really need to be put into context.
That said, whether one is talking about poor white people--who are rarely depicted on TV or in movies with any accuracy, though they are one of the largest groups in this country--or poor black people, Cosby should also think about policies and a society that aims to keep them at the bottom of the economic, social and educational ladder. Personal responsibility is only part of the issue. I mean, would Neil Bush really be employed or employable were he not a member of the W family?
Bill Cosby can say anything he wants darn it! The man is the god of Jello pudding, Fat Albert, the Cosby Show, and Picture Pages! 
Got this e-mail from my nephew yesterday:
I am deliberately self-conscious about my grammar when I write to my nephews and nieces. It detracts sometimes from the amount, and perhaps quality, of the content but it hopefully sets something of an example, even if I'm a chemist and not a grammarian.
He is a very bright kid by the way (slipping into proud uncle mode here) who was the only representative from his high school at the state chess competition when he was younger. I'm not sure how old he is now (I think about 14 though he's about 6' 3" and built like a linebacker) but his mother only allows him and his siblings to use the computer from home, and under supervision.
He's very good at math and science but has a lot of work to do if he wants to be an effective writer. I've noticed in my career that it is rare for people gifted in science and math to also be literary. The days of the Thomas Jefferson's and Leonardo Da Vinci's went out with the invention of mass communication and the ballooning of the amount of information in the world. Specialization requires that large chunks of knowledge be ignored. It may not be necessary but it is the path many choose for practical reasons.
Bill Cosby is right. But Bill Cosby's grammar is not stellar either. I love the guy, always have, always will. But I think his emphasis should be on continuing to exploit the talents that already abound in quantity in the African-American community, as he has done so well in the past. With any luck my nephew will be a much better scientist than I am one day, and his kid a better one than him.
Who knows? Some day he may be the ancestor of another Da Vinci - or several. It will happen - one day at a time, one generation at a time.
[ May 28, 2004, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: sportinlife ]
QUOTE
although I'm using my mother's e-mail account for this correspondence, this is actually from Brew. My final project for my English class happens to be a project on family history. I was hoping that you could provide me with family tree information for at least three generations. I'm a little interested in more than that, but I'm not required to have anymore. I will be in good standing if I only have that far back on one side, and I thought it would be easier to ask it from someone who has already researched. I also need a collage, so if you have any extra copies of pictures, they would be useful. Of course, I am already in good standing there, so it's more up to how much you're willing to attribute. It would also be extremely helpful if you could compile and send whatever you will before Monday, as I will need to be completed soon.
I thought his grammar was atrocious and I would have taken the time to reply with a "corrected" version but it was obvious that he has limited time with mid-terms coming up, so I simply responded with the information he requested. I would also like him to write back later and will continue writing him as long as he is interested.I am deliberately self-conscious about my grammar when I write to my nephews and nieces. It detracts sometimes from the amount, and perhaps quality, of the content but it hopefully sets something of an example, even if I'm a chemist and not a grammarian.
He is a very bright kid by the way (slipping into proud uncle mode here) who was the only representative from his high school at the state chess competition when he was younger. I'm not sure how old he is now (I think about 14 though he's about 6' 3" and built like a linebacker) but his mother only allows him and his siblings to use the computer from home, and under supervision.
He's very good at math and science but has a lot of work to do if he wants to be an effective writer. I've noticed in my career that it is rare for people gifted in science and math to also be literary. The days of the Thomas Jefferson's and Leonardo Da Vinci's went out with the invention of mass communication and the ballooning of the amount of information in the world. Specialization requires that large chunks of knowledge be ignored. It may not be necessary but it is the path many choose for practical reasons.
Bill Cosby is right. But Bill Cosby's grammar is not stellar either. I love the guy, always have, always will. But I think his emphasis should be on continuing to exploit the talents that already abound in quantity in the African-American community, as he has done so well in the past. With any luck my nephew will be a much better scientist than I am one day, and his kid a better one than him.
Who knows? Some day he may be the ancestor of another Da Vinci - or several. It will happen - one day at a time, one generation at a time.
[ May 28, 2004, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: sportinlife ]
Cosby may have hit on some things that African-American leaders don't normally discuss, but his delivery and tone were atrocious, and he is rightly getting flack for the speech.
He is certainly not the first to decry a defeatist attitude among some poor African-Americans that seems to prevent them from even wanting to achieve - William Raspberry and Courtland Milloy in the Washington Post have both written extensively on the subject. It is sad that after fighting so hard for integration and the ability to get a superior education, there is a core of our nation's cities that regards intellectual achievement as "white" and therefore negative. And Lord knows there are plenty of poor folk from every ethnicity who share a similar attitude, so it is not simply a black problem.
But what Cosby missed, and I think is vital to the public policy debate on how to help those who live in poverty to achieve is the deleterious effect of generations of poverty. From what I have seen and experience in 15 years in DC, it takes a lot of guts and courage if you are born poor to even think you can do a lot better, because the opportunities just don't seem to be there. That may not be reality, but perceptions are important, and if you get no push from the family or the community to better yourself, it is unlikely you will find the motivation yourself.
I don't think you can separate the fact that many parents don't push their kids to excel with the reasons why they don't - and that makes the problem much more difficult to fix.
He is certainly not the first to decry a defeatist attitude among some poor African-Americans that seems to prevent them from even wanting to achieve - William Raspberry and Courtland Milloy in the Washington Post have both written extensively on the subject. It is sad that after fighting so hard for integration and the ability to get a superior education, there is a core of our nation's cities that regards intellectual achievement as "white" and therefore negative. And Lord knows there are plenty of poor folk from every ethnicity who share a similar attitude, so it is not simply a black problem.
But what Cosby missed, and I think is vital to the public policy debate on how to help those who live in poverty to achieve is the deleterious effect of generations of poverty. From what I have seen and experience in 15 years in DC, it takes a lot of guts and courage if you are born poor to even think you can do a lot better, because the opportunities just don't seem to be there. That may not be reality, but perceptions are important, and if you get no push from the family or the community to better yourself, it is unlikely you will find the motivation yourself.
I don't think you can separate the fact that many parents don't push their kids to excel with the reasons why they don't - and that makes the problem much more difficult to fix.
what has also been ignored in this discussion is this. Although Mfume and others on stage ma have been surprised by Cosby's comments initially.... They have since come out in agreement.
The common response is that Cosby's comments do ring true but in the black community, it is still taboo for blacks to air their dirty laundry in front of white folk.
all the articles/op-eds I have read in The Times, Atl-Jou-Const, etc have said the same thing.
But at some point, dealing openly with issues and problems openly is not only needed... it is a sign of maturity.
[ May 28, 2004, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: ung ]
The common response is that Cosby's comments do ring true but in the black community, it is still taboo for blacks to air their dirty laundry in front of white folk.
all the articles/op-eds I have read in The Times, Atl-Jou-Const, etc have said the same thing.
But at some point, dealing openly with issues and problems openly is not only needed... it is a sign of maturity.
QUOTE
...much of black America...is ready to have that conversation. In that sense, Cosby's speech was a watershed event -- a sign that black America is now comfortable enough with its accomplishments to discuss its shortcomings.
\"Perhaps Bill did us a favor,\" says NAACP President Kweisi Mfume...\"and more people will now be prepared to step forward. It'll be a tough love conversation, whether or not people want to have it. And it will take opinion leaders to say those things that should be said.\"
...isn't it about time that black Americans acknowledge that, at the dawn of the 21st century, personal responsibility has at least as much to do with success in America as race? Isn't it only fair to note that the landmark Supreme Court ruling of 50 years ago did roll back much of systemic racism? After all, if you believe that racism continues to largely limit black success, that will certainly prove itself true.
\"There is no reason that black students have to do poorly in math and science, in speech, in cognitive abilities,\" Mfume said. \"When you're quiet about those [shortcomings], young people notice, and it sounds like you're giving your approval.\"
Some blacks have recoiled from Cosby's pointed remarks... because they don't want to discuss certain ignominious truths in front of white folks. They fear such painful self-analysis will only provide fodder to the race-baiters -- the Neal Boortzes and Rush Limbaughs -- who work hard at stoking a white backlash.
It is more important that black Americans have a spirited debate about the challenges of the post-civil rights era: How do we raise the academic achievement of black students? How do we curb black-on-black crime? How do we attack an AIDS epidemic spreading like wildfire in black America?
In a way, Cosby's speech was an eloquent reminder of the stunning success of the civil rights movement that followed the Brown decision: Black America is strong enough and successful enough to admit its shortcomings and gird itself for the work ahead.
Cynthia Tucker in the Atl Journal Constitution\"Perhaps Bill did us a favor,\" says NAACP President Kweisi Mfume...\"and more people will now be prepared to step forward. It'll be a tough love conversation, whether or not people want to have it. And it will take opinion leaders to say those things that should be said.\"
...isn't it about time that black Americans acknowledge that, at the dawn of the 21st century, personal responsibility has at least as much to do with success in America as race? Isn't it only fair to note that the landmark Supreme Court ruling of 50 years ago did roll back much of systemic racism? After all, if you believe that racism continues to largely limit black success, that will certainly prove itself true.
\"There is no reason that black students have to do poorly in math and science, in speech, in cognitive abilities,\" Mfume said. \"When you're quiet about those [shortcomings], young people notice, and it sounds like you're giving your approval.\"
Some blacks have recoiled from Cosby's pointed remarks... because they don't want to discuss certain ignominious truths in front of white folks. They fear such painful self-analysis will only provide fodder to the race-baiters -- the Neal Boortzes and Rush Limbaughs -- who work hard at stoking a white backlash.
It is more important that black Americans have a spirited debate about the challenges of the post-civil rights era: How do we raise the academic achievement of black students? How do we curb black-on-black crime? How do we attack an AIDS epidemic spreading like wildfire in black America?
In a way, Cosby's speech was an eloquent reminder of the stunning success of the civil rights movement that followed the Brown decision: Black America is strong enough and successful enough to admit its shortcomings and gird itself for the work ahead.
[ May 28, 2004, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: ung ]
[quote]sportinlife:
Got this e-mail from my nephew yesterday:
[quote]although I'm using my mother's e-mail account for this correspondence, this is actually from Brew. [/quote]Is your nephew really named after beer? I think thats more atrocious
Got this e-mail from my nephew yesterday:
[quote]although I'm using my mother's e-mail account for this correspondence, this is actually from Brew. [/quote]Is your nephew really named after beer? I think thats more atrocious
QUOTE
DallasUNC:
Is your nephew really named after beer? I think thats more atrocious :)
Actually his fathers nickname for him. He was born in Germany where the two parents met while stationed there with the army. A German "brew" probably played a role in his conception. winkIs your nephew really named after beer? I think thats more atrocious :)
[ May 29, 2004, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: sportinlife ]
Originally posted by owllover:
As for the 's-k' metathesis, I can't say that I've ever noticed people doing that, at least not here in Canada, so perhaps it's a regional difference. I assume the mistake is sometimes made with other 's-k' words, not just 'ask'. Makes me wonder how I'd respond if I were taking a basic computer class with other men and I heard the instructor say "Gentlemen, please insert your diks..." wink
QUOTE
English speakers have been metathesizing the \"s\" and \"k\" sounds in the verb \"to ask\"
I must admit "metathesizing" is a new word for me, but it's always worthwhile to expand one's vocabulary. Until I looked it up I thought, is this an American's misuse and misspelling of the similar sounding word "metastasizing" (as in cancer cells m...)? Another way of putting it, is owllover methathesizing "metastasizing"? As for the 's-k' metathesis, I can't say that I've ever noticed people doing that, at least not here in Canada, so perhaps it's a regional difference. I assume the mistake is sometimes made with other 's-k' words, not just 'ask'. Makes me wonder how I'd respond if I were taking a basic computer class with other men and I heard the instructor say "Gentlemen, please insert your diks..." wink
QUOTE
sportinlife:
I've noticed in my career that it is rare for people gifted in science and math to also be literary.
I'll second that. I work with a bunch of engineers, and many of them (including many whose first language is English, or some facsimile thereof) can't communicate clearly to save their lives. (Of course, that's what keeps us tech writers employed.)
I've noticed in my career that it is rare for people gifted in science and math to also be literary.
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