First it was GOP US Rep Christopher Shays who slammed his party as becoming a "theocracy," and now former Missouri Senator, Ambassador to the UN, and Episcopal minister John C. Danforth takes Republicans to task for transforming "our party into the political arm of conservative Christians." (BTW, Dem boot-licker Joe Lieberman actually attacked Shays and tried to defend the "theocrats.")

NY TIMES: John C. Danforth, \"In the Name of Politics\"

Though I cannot forget this man's sponsorship of one of the worst judges ever to grace the U.S. Supreme Court, I can say that I wish there were more Republicans of his ilk (and he wasn't even in the Chafee-Collins mold) and fewer of the DeMint-Coburn-Martinez-Frist wacko hypocrites filling the GOP side of the Senate.

But his words speak for themselves:



[ March 30, 2005, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

I've been waiting for the moderates to final rise up and fight against the right-wing direction the republican party has taken, but I hope it's not too late!

It's been too late for at least a decade. This again begs the question -- well, my question -- of what their next step should be. Do any of these so-called moderates have a breaking point? Do these so-called moderates continue to stay in the GodOP, or do they grow a pair and leave the zealots once and for all?

Edited to not offend-

[ March 30, 2005, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: PhillyFan ]

I always enjoy the irony of the "mainstream" forcing Christianity down the throats of the country that has freedom of religion. But then they throw a fit when we force common sense and the Constitution down theirs.

[ March 30, 2005, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: DallasUNC ]

Well, in the 2000 elections, the Democrats gained 1 seat in the House, 5 in the Senate, and won the popular vote for the Presidency. In the 2002 mid-terms the Republicans picked up 2 senate seats and 8 in the House amid the post-911 \"rally 'round the leader mentality\". In 2004 elections, the incumbant president only won 51% of the vote and would have lost his position had one state (Ohio) gone for Kerry. That, in my opinion, is not \"getting their asses kicked\".

...coming from an expert.

Are you talking about Democrats here? Because it certainly sounds to me like you are referring to legal cases filed by the ACLU.

He's baaack!

Looks like the real PF is back!

Everybody needs a good villain, and PF plays that role perfectly. Welcome back!!!

P.S. gmg, your role of crotchety old GOP man has now been reclaimed by PF. No offense, but he does it with much more flair. wink

[ March 30, 2005, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: KeyWest Guy ]

Nope sorry, not allowed to "Flame Throw", or will be banned.

Even an alcoholic slips and has a drink now and then.-William1865

Don't just sit there posting woman! eek! Hop to it, and get PF a beer for the love of God!!!

Guess its time for me to go back to the yardwork too..... frown

Why is it so difficult to understand that God, a cross, Christ mass and Jesus belong at church and not in our government?????

This is not a Christian nation!!!!! I consider myself a Christian, but I don't believe my government should promote any religion. That's what churches, temples and etc are for, right?

Great post PhillyFan! Everyone should stock up on common sense like you have. I think it's great when you post your wonderful observations on life and what's wrong with liberals. I especially liked your use of quotation marks around "common sense". It really made it stand out in my mind and I'll be sure to remember it now. I sure hope everyone follows your lead and starts using more "common sense". We should all be able to agree that "common sense" is the key to everything.

Thanks SO much for the kind words Weaselman!

As I have stated before, "communication" is the key! So, i'm really sorry I can't 100% back up your thoughts, hope you are not offened, and once again sorry for not agreeing with you.

Much like this great author is trying to point out in his article.... Communication!

Great post though! Please keep them coming, we really enjoy hearing your thoughts.

Proposed, "common sense" is neither common (in either the positive or negative sense of the word) or sensical.

Discuss.

Um, did I miss something? When did Philly Fan become Ann Marie?

Is it a full moom?

PF, thanks for much for your kind words. I'm puzzled though - I just can't figure out why you don't 100% agree with me. It's a real headscratcher if I do say so myself. Gosh, I want to agree with you 110%. I'm so sorry I don't. I hope this doesn't offend you, maybe we can just agree to disagree. If not, I just don't know what I'll do. :confused:

At the risk of being labeled "crotchety," I will say that I almost posted this item earlier today, but did not, because some, as JIP does, will find fault with whatever ANY Republican does, WHENEVER he or she does it. Not that that matters to folks like me in the least; we'll keep on keepin' on and bring more folks around to our views over time, as this most recent conversion (lapse into apostasy?) shows.

Now, back to my own version of LeFargism ... click, click, click ...

Well, gmginsfo, I for one do not think of you as crotchety. Having lived in a "blue" county during your formative years, I just know there is a little Democrat inside that body of a Republican!

I'm sure gm's had more than one Democrat inside him before (and probably not so little either).

...being a political hack who is beholden to the GodOP despite its abhorrent policies and proposed/enacted laws, but easily drops the Catholic Church becuase of some of its abhorrent policies -- even though the church, other than making its views known, has no power whatsoever to actually implement any of them and make them into a law since the church isn't a political party or a government agency (much as the GodOP would like it to be).

Except that you didn't bring Danforth to your "side." Apparently he has been on this "side" all of his life. It's the rest of the GodOP that went away from him -- and you.

So again (and again) I ask: is there a breaking point? Does the constitutional amendment against same-sex marriage actually have to be passed by Congress and the states? How about a law allowing the government to take gay people's children away from them? How about a law to have all gay people burned at the stake?

sorry folks - i meant to post this response in this forum; posted in the other by accident!

bry


we actually discussed this article in class yesterday - at our mostly progressive school - few disagreed with the tenets of danforth's speech.

i am glad that he and shays and other like-minded moderates, are beginning to voice their concern about the direction these christo-facists are taking the republican party. the professor read a few passages from christy whitman’s' new book - and she too takes to task the right wing of her party - and this is from a woman who served as president bush's chairperson from the state of nj! she ultimately feels her party has abandoned its moderate bent - as both danforth and shay's further intimate.

although i take to task danforth's assertions about the right's manifesto advocating the benefits of deregulation, a lighter tax burden, - which ultimately benefit the very rich at the expense of the majority of midddle class america - and judges who "interpret the law vs. those who legislate - which of course is total hypocrisy since that is exactly what the supreme court did in bush v. gore to put this administration in office at the expense of state's rights - his basic premise is spot-on.

maybe there is finally light at the end of this tunnel after all. i just hope a moral conscious prevails over moral platitudes. i recall something bill clinton once said - if you want to live like a republican, vote democrat. how true is that!


lastly, someone in the class brought up, in the context of gay marriage, the speech by larry kramer back in november 04 at cooper union in which he discusses "the tragedy of today's gays" -i read that late last night and it bears review by all of us. it has been posted here before but i urge others to read or re-read it. its very long but both historical and a call to action. i will put the link below for those who care to view. just scroll down to the november 7th posting.

http://fablog.ehrensteinland.com/archives/...s/2004_11.shtml

JIP, as your man Teddy Kennedy says, "I'll drive off those bridges when I come to them."

In a more realistic response, there's no need to speculate, especially to attempt to satisfy the caviling of those who will never be convinced. You've heard my positions* and what we're doing; what are your own and just what are YOU doing to change things, other than carping and calling names?** :confused:
_____
*Which is NOT as you suppose, KWG. Call me Cosmo, as in "Topper." wink

**And self-righteously condemning others to Hell.

[ March 31, 2005, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: gmginsfo ]

If you ever answer the many questions you've evaded on this board, perhaps I'll give you an answer.

But he did finally answer something--he vehemently denies he's a bottom.

I will personally blame you when i get in trouble for "Flame Throwing" JIP... but... come on.

What do I do? Well on a state level, if i think that the legislature has become too ultra conservative (which it did), I vote for a Dem for Gov (which i did). If i see a candidate who is too ultra conservative, i tell me repub buddies how crazy they are socially and to vote for the more modersate candidate in the primary (which i did).

On a national level, well my house rep happens to be a dem (but he aint that bad) and our 2 senators are pretty darn good.

How about you JIP what exactly are you doing to get rid of Santorum out there in PA? Seems to me that your blue state should clean up their kitchen before going after others. Why dont you get some of you lib buddies to actually vote, to me, that is the problem with your party... they dont vote, they are lazy when it comes time to drive down and do it.

See here is the difference there JIP, i base my political affiliation on economics, safety, taxes and such... you get way too hung up on these stupid social issues. The marriage ammend, aint gonna happen (as i have said forever now). Laws against adoption or something? ummm, sounds more local to me dude. On a national level, wont happen. When you rant about these things, I laugh at you say... he's worried about pie in the sky stuff.

I'm also pro-choice, but since i dont plan on knocking up some bimbo in the next few years, it really doesnt concern me too much.... but i doubt the law will be changed.

Rev.* Senator Danforth certainly has a reason to promote big business, you know. He is one of three brothers who are heirs to the Ralston-Purina fortune, which I believe was sold off a while ago, but as a shareholder he became one of the richest senators while he was serving. His brother, Dr. William Danforth, was the president for many years of Washington University in St. Louis, and the Danforth Foundation has given that institution hundreds of millions of dollars. (Washington University, BTW, was founded by the ultraliberal grandfather of Nobel laureate poet T.S. Eliot, William Greenleaf Eliot, who also helped to establish some of the first schools for freed blacks in Missouri.) Although it already was one of the best reseearch universities in the world, Wash U. has now vaulted into the top 10 under its new president, Mark Wrighton, who was formerly a provost at MIT.
---
*No one has yet mentioned that this man is an ordained minister. I continue to ask, where are the moderate Christian voices speaking out against the fanaticism. I'm not saying they all have to be Pastor Niemoellers, but at the same time, even a cursory review of the Gospels would show how off-Scripture the hate-filled, money-drunk and power-hungry Talibangelicals are.

I'm not talking about people voting one way or the other. Hell, I voted for the Republican in the last mayoral election. (Sure, it was because he had no chance of winning, but still...) I'm talking about people who work in politics and work for a party that has all of these policies that they find abhorrent, but apparently not abhorrent enough for them to withdraw their support -- in terms of work, money, whatever -- for that party.

Surely you don't think that PA is really a blue state despite the election results? The only reason Kerry won PA is because Philadelphia gave him 80 percent of the vote.

I base my political affiliation on many things, including economics, taxes, etc. And I don't think wanting to have the same rights as straight people is stupid.

I refuse to type my reply on the grounds it may offend someone"**

-------------------------------
**Not meant to offend.

Aw hell, Philly. Post it. I seem to offend everyone anyway, why should you worry?

Rhetorical questions, particularly those posed out of context, are just dumb questions - and don't deserve answers. Same for speculative ones; save the parade of potential horribles for Pride Week and work yourself into a nice fit over what might, if only in some tortured mind, occur.

What an utterly pompous but ultimately unsurprising post. I guess we know the answer. There is nothing that the GodOP would do that would persuade you to stop licking their boots.

[ March 31, 2005, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]

"Local" as in Terri Schiavo local? :confused: How much more "up in somebody's business" can Big G get than what your buddies Dubya, Frist & DeLay pulled over that? Surely you are concerned about these issues?

Dear Philly Fan,

Glad to have you back. Quit worrying about offending someone. That is what this board is all about. I like the offensive Philly Fan much better than the condescending Philly Fan. Just to let you know, I have voted in every single primary and general election since I was 18 years old. I am now 40. That's a lot of voting, every single one of them for the Democratic candidate. If a Republican can logically show me why I should change my vote, I would be more than willing to listen.

Millerbeach