Man, that whole place is just screwed up. What a mess: STORY

And that's not an atypical death toll, either!

Imagine what would have happened if Janet had exposed one of her breasts there! By the way, who was stamped? What was the post-mark?

[ February 03, 2004, 05:42 AM: Message edited by: bobby78751 ]

Has it come to this? Are we to discuss philately now at Outsports? Santorum was right. For shame, MIB; for shame.

For shame that I said it is a mess when tens of thousands stampede, killing hundreds? Sheesh.

MIBBY, go back and reread twin58's post. I fear your famous (at least to you) sense of humor failed you here.

I wonder if anyone has figured out how this can be blamed on the Americans?

Could be. Head colds can do that to a person.

LOL. Good question. Considering that when the U.S. suffers disasters or even terrorist attacks, the wacko Muslims claim this is "the will of Allah," can we then say that this stampede carnage was also "the will of Allah"?

Just wondering.

Or, as Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell might say, the effects of being infidels and not believing in the salvation of Jesus Christ!

We don't have to say it. . .the Moslems themselves already have:

And what's more, many of them long to be trampled to death in Mecca:

Perverse.

[ February 04, 2004, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Skiguy ]

How could this stampede happen without it being in a Wal-Mart with dual deck VCR/DVD players? Those nutty Muslims!

Heres a report from a Muslim journalist just back from doing Hajj

"It is as strange as Mars, but less lonely. Calm has returned to Mina, the huge tent city south-east of Mecca where a tragic accident killed more than 250 Muslim pilgrims on Sunday. Such is the buzz within the camp that, only a few hours after the event, life returned to normal - except, of course, for those directly affected by the disaster.

Others were glued to radios or to mobile phones, and crowds gathered around the few television sets that were available. As a mark of reverence for their fellow pilgrims caught up in the disaster, people everywhere organised impromptu prayers for the dead.

However, the cloud of sadness over the event was mixed with a sense of optimism: in retrospect, the deaths seem so unnecessary but, people said, there are worse ways in which one can lose one's life - by Israeli bullets in Palestine, American ones in Iraq, Russian ones in Chechnya, and Indian in Kashmir. In all, it was felt that dying at Mina was a much more satisfactory manner to end one's life. These dead can only be martyrs.

...For 14 centuries, merchants, sultans, saints and Sufis have gathered here to exchange views not only about God, but about political realities facing the global family of Muslim faith, the umma.

The overall mood in the gigantic mosques and the tent cities seems calm, a far cry from the usual western perception of the endlessly agitated Arab street.

"You, British?" Well, certainly. This produces an embrace, and an offer of tea and sweets; then I am expected to explain the deep mystery of Britain's policies vis-à-vis the Muslim world. Palestine is still an open wound. And now there is an intifada in Baghdad. Why is Blair behaving like an American Bible-basher? There is little hostility, but much bafflement: most of the queries express a genuine concern about British behaviour.

Everyone here believes that Muslims have the right to expect more wisdom from Britain, whose empire once claimed Islam as its most widely followed religion.

Muslim politics and the cack-handed, vengeful Americans, are discussed between prayers. But people, while angry at the west's blundering into Iraq, and its kid-glove treatment of Ariel Sharon, lack any noticeable Osama bin Laden-style hatred. They are just mystified.

They are deeply confused by the conflicting messages coming out of London and Washington: the politicians who call for a Middle East in which the wishes of the people will be paramount, but who then ignore these wishes.

Everywhere I find well-produced leaflets focusing on spiritual aspects of hajj. The literature is more inclusive and more tolerant than one used to expect - in the past, this kind of spirituality would have been banned, or cursed from the pulpits.

The men in uniform are looking for political troublemakers, and no longer bother to harass Muslims who have brought with them traditional practices that the official royal scholars consider unacceptable, such as religious songs and chants. The religious thought-police, once all-powerful, and perfectly able to administer a caning if they overheard a religious poem they considered improper, seemed subdued and disheartened. Everyone is, in consequence, having a good time, within an atmosphere of prayer and meditation.

Last week, in Jeddah, my car was stopped and thoroughly searched at least three times. My fellow passengers joked that we were stopped because two of the passengers looked like mojahedin, with long beards.

There are fewer Saudis, particularly from the central regions of the country from which most extremists are said to come. Those who have made it complain of endless difficulties in getting the necessary papers. The pre-hajj bureaucracy, I am told, is now used by the police to screen potential extremists.


· Fuad Nahdi is editor-in-chief of the Muslim magazine Q-News