I thought about asking him to autograph an 8x10 kissable glossy, "Give 'em Hell, RazorbackTX, xxoo, Howard Dean!" Instead, I decided to save all of my Dean photos to send to OutSports naysayers in January 2005. I may have a few to paste over those official photos of the "next" one-term Bush. Hee!

So instead I told him that my Republican business-owner friends in Vermont loved him and were spreading the word. He smiled that megawatt smile and said, "Tell them to keep it up!" (oh, if he only knew wink )

...and then bostongirl thanked him for having "cojones"! eek! He seems to have heard that before...

gj

Gaytor -- I have a pic of Howard and me from the HRC dinner in Philly but I think we should only post our Dean pics if PhillyFan posts his pic with Reagan, Dole (Bob or Liddy), Quayle, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Bob Dornan (remember him?) or Henry Hyde. Hell -- we'll even do it if he posts the pic he had taken when he met Santorum

I still have my Dole-Hemp ooops i mean kemp poster from years ago.... Sorry, i was too young to ever vote for Ray-gun.

And as far as santorum goes... well... I have McCain, who did you guys put in office? Isnt he from Pittsburgh? That is just like Ohio anyway...nevermind... i wont bash the burg... well not here...

Naw, I don't wanna see Phil on his knees...

Big kudos to both you and BostonGirl, GJ!....with the two of you as his "unofficial (unpaid) campaign managers" how can he fail?

[ June 25, 2003, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

You're projecting, and in a rather nasty and insulting way. The media are NOT liberal and to say so is not BS. Your sauce is obviously blinding you to reality.

On a range of issues, outside of the deep South, most Americans are to the left of both of the national parties. Most Americans--MOST--want universal health care; most want both Social Security and Medicare to be preserved rather than destroyed; most are willing to pay higher taxes to protect our national infrastructure; most are for limited gun control; most support a woman's right to abortion; most believe that the United States should work with other nations in achieving its diplomatic and foreign policy goals; most want our environment to be protected to a reasonable extent and do not buy the sort of pro-business or cost-benefit analysis shams that are destroying it; most are against racial and gender discrimination; and on and on.

W is FARRRRRR to the right of any of these positions. There is a reason that Gore, a truly lackluster campaigner, won the majority of votes in 2000. Bush's extremism is out of the mainstream, and had the Supreme Court not executed its coup, we'd not have been saddled with the last two and half years of right-wing extremist disaster that has resulted in an unnecessary war, radical redistribution of our resources to the superrich, swiftly increasing environmental degradation, and on and on.

fyi -- the latest Gallup poll of Democrats (conducted 6/12-6/18):

....................All Men Wom Wht Blk His
Lieberman...........20% 19% 21% 22% 17% 16%
Gephardt............15 15 15 20 6 9
Kerry...............13 15 11 16 6 8
Edwards............. 7 9 5 8 6 5
Sharpton............ 7 7 6 1 24 8
Graham.............. 6 7 6 4 8 13
Moseley Braun....... 6 2 9 4 12 4
Dean................ 6 8 4 8 3 3
Kucinich............ 1 2 1 2 * 1
Other............... 1 1 1 1 * 3
No one.............. 5 7 4 5 3 9
No opinion..........13 8 17 9 15 21

only Democratic voters were polled.

Also for the record, asked of all voters:

All Men Wom Wht Blk His
Bush................50% 54% 47% 57% 9% 48%
Dem candidate.......38 34 41 33 73 39
Other (vol.).........3 4 3 3 4 3
No opinion...........9 8 9 7 14 10

uhhh where are you getting this from? The last poll i saw... the vast MAJORITY Of american people supported what W did in Iraq, WMD's or not. Isnt everyone except sen kkk byrd against discrimination? I'll turn it around, MOST americans are against Quotas.

Tell ya what.. get gept-heart... up there and nominate him... do his bibble-babble on universal health care and the ten zillion dollars it will cost, and we will see how many are for it. Then ask america... who wants it... by the way your taxes are now 60%...

Destroy the envir.? Sorry charlie, but you dont destory nature in 2 years. Phoenix had smog when billy boy was president .. and bush 1.

Higher taxes to keep all of this? Hey, how about some fiscal responsibility. The more money you give the govt, the more they spend.

PhillyFan is sending his tax cut check into the Dean campaign, way to go PF!

That is a move in the right direction, or should I say the left direction!!!!! wink

Young man, if you keep talking like that, you're going to get a drink bought for you at the DC Happy Hour! Yep, that's what happens to youngsters like you!

GOOD JOB GJ! WAY TO GO, VERY EXCITING....

hope that gets me 2 drinks.

MIB,

Speaking as a former Hill staffer and washington insider, let me say that your political analysis is \"interesting\" to say the least.

Your statement above concerning Dean, his position and what his supporters want are completely upside down.

The fact is (for the gazillionth time on this thread) he is a centrist-conservative democrat.

Many of his very very liberal supporters, who have taken to him per his anti-Bush and anti-war stance, would like for him to be very liberal. On the fringe if you will. But he's not.

That notion will be dispelled soon enough as many on the far left will be disappointed that he doesn't share all their beliefs. Likewise, many on the far right will be disappointed as they won't be able to dismiss him as too fringe left.

again.. if anything many of his supporters are trying to portray him as more liberal than he is because that's what they believe, as many in Middlebury College have noted. But analysts and observers in Vermont (Middlebury again) note that this is not how Dean works.

I know this post won't do any good.
You'll just simply say, \"OK. He has a record of being conservative in many issues. But he's too far liberal\" (which makes no logical sense by the way) So be it.

Here's an excerpt from today's Wash Post talking about his appearance on Meet The Press.



[ June 25, 2003, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: ung ]

You've had enough already.

Razorback -- very funny!

From The Washington Post:

Elections analyst Stuart Rothenberg, who writes a column for "Roll Call," related an exchange that he had with Dean during a meeting with the paper's editorial board in January.

"I asked him about gay rights and civil unions and his commitment to it, about how he always talks about it as a moral principle on which he has staked his reputation and doesn't care about the political ramification," Rothenberg said. "I said, 'If that's the case and you use it as an example of why you are different, why did you sign [the civil unions] bill in cover of darkness with no public event?' I told him a Democrat from Vermont had told me that. And he turned his body halfway around as if he were reaching back to throw a fastball, and he yelled 'That's bull----! Nobody from Vermont said that. Nobody from Vermont told you that.' "

Believe it or not, ung, I rather like Dean. Unlike many politicians on both sides of the aisle, he tends to speak his mind more and not hide behind some middle-of-the-road wimpiness.

I know there are many here on this board who do not agree with my desire that more politicians take a principled stand, but this is mainly because such posters here are against this unless the politician's principled stand coincides with theirs as well.

I have more respect for those with whom I disagree who take a principled stand than for those with whom I might agree but whose spines are made of jelly.

I just received an e-mail from the Howard Dean camp. He said he was the winner of the moveon.orgs' Presidential primary. He said he won by a landslide. This is an organization that is internet based. I tried to signup so I could vote last Wednesday but the "polls" had closed. Anyway, congratulations are in order for Howard Dean. Go boy go!!

The Moveon.com win is a sign of problems to come.

I'm glad (on one hand) that he won and with it, the accompanying publicity. However, this is the "liberal primary" and poses a conflict between those who refuse to see the real Dean and those who know him as conservative in many issues.

Already there are signs of strain as liberals become disappointed by some of his stands. Stands which I support.

We'll have to see how things work out. Will the desire to unseat W. Bush trump their reluctance for a candidate who supports concealed weapons?

Didn't I read that someone close to Dean is high up in the MoveOn organization? I voted for Kucinich in their poll, and I'm not deluded that he'd draw 20+% in a primary held today...

Yeah, the US leans rightward; that's why GWB won 48% of the popular vote in 2000...

Let's remember that Dem candidates are tarred as "too liberal" by a media that is owned and manipulated by the radical Right.

I had a chance yesterday to listen to Joe Trippi, Deans' Campaign Manager on streaming audio over the interent. I believe he was addressing reporters questions, not sure if they were from MSNBC or where. You could type in and send questions to him, pretty cool. He was asked about Dean being to far to the left, and it was his statement that Dean cannot be idealogically pegged for being too far to the left. There is also lots of buzz in the press about how effective a tool, the internet has been for Dean, very powerful indeed. He has picked up a ton of interest, and contributions over the internet. His challenge will now be to sway older Americans and others who don't use or depend on the interent or computers. By the way, tonight is "meet-up" night, and in many many cities across the country, Dean supporters meet, get togther and shoot the breeze.

The latest from the Nomination Frontlines is that the other campaigns are scared. Due to the large suport and unexpected fund raising of the cutie patootie, Dr.Gov.Howard Dean they are trying t poo-poo his campaign in a different way.

from the NY Times. Yeah! an example of a democrat not wanting Howard Dean's nomination would be ... Oh I don't know ........ Satan??? (sorry. couldn't resist..) I mean Steve Murphy. since he'd have a snowbal's chance in hell of getting a job if Gep loses.

Huh? Is he speaking swahili? What the hell is this guy talking about? They got a plan? Their plan was to go down in flames? What momentum?Howdy Doody has ZERO momentum. I know old burnt out Fiats with more momentum than his campaign.

[ July 03, 2003, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: ung ]

I don't know. An awful lot of people were convinced that Bill Clinton was a liberal, and I have heard Hillary described as a "radical feminist". It's so hard to tell her and Andrea Dworkin apart.

Bill Clinton may have been described as a liberal. But I think all sides Dem and GOP agree thathe was a centrist.

I'm not disagreeing about what Clinton (or Dean for that matter) is--and people who actually follow politics may understand that, but the election is going to be decided by people who think Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11.

true. But I'm hoping that in the intervening 1.5 years, the truth will be discovered by the public.

I guess I'm just more cynical than you.

The GOP are going to do everything in their power to obscure the reality of Dean's ideological and political views. Last week Mary Matalin described him as "far left," I saw a CBS reporter describe his supporters as "anti-war liberals" and I have heard him pegged on NPR as being on the "very liberal end of the spectrum," which just shows the intellectual laziness of all these folks. And if you think THEY'RE distorting, just wait till Rove and W and Cheney get their hands on him. They'll be calling him far out of the mainstream...more than anything because of his Civil Union stand. The best way for him to win would be to prepare himself very well for the most extreme attacks possible, and persuade Wesley Clark to consider being his running-mate. Soon. Verrry soon.

[ July 06, 2003, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Tarkus ]

I'm less and less sure of this. W will either start a new war or find some way to obscure things or move them off the national agenda, and once he does so, they get forgotten. I mean, have we EVER heard the truth about what he knew or didn't know before 9/11? About the intelligence failtures? About the fact that the Air Force couldn't or wouldn't send up fighter jets. About the fact that he's fired no one over this tragedy? That alone should make all Americans think twice about voting for him ever again. The rest of his Everest of lies is just overkill.

the shit is really starting to hit the fan about the WMD issues we've been discussing. the sunday morning talking heads were totally flustered in trying to explain what came out a couple of days ago.

The Daily Howler today talks about the Washington press corps' decision now to trash Dean, just as they skewered Gore, while letting DUImbya off the hook again and again....

The supposedly "liberal" Washington Post's Evelyn Nieves is the current hatchetwoman:

Daily Howler: \"Dean's Ropy Veins\"

Bill -- Kucinich keeps giving you even more reasons to support him: he just introduced the "Baseball Fan Protection Act" which "is intended to increase the number of home games shown on free, broadcast television"

He probably "can't win" this one either ...More tilting at windmills from Rep. Kucinich ...

He was also one of three candidates who stayed away from an NAACP forum. Of the three I think he had the best reason: not wanting to miss critical votes that may have come up that day. I thought Kweisi Mfume's criticism of the candidates, especially Kucinich, was unnecessarily harsh and self-defeating.

[ July 18, 2003, 04:16 AM: Message edited by: sportinlife ]

I received an e-mail from the Howard Dean headquarters camp this morning. They say that in the latest Field Poll, Dean is now number 1 in California. If this is true, this is really huge news. I know our buddy PF will have something to say about this. wink

it is true!

come on left coast outsporters, get the word out!

Wow. People are starting to finally open their ears, and receive the message that Howard has to say.

Now we have to get the word out to the republicans who are tired of the radical fringe hijacking their party.

BTW... Time had an interesting article about him a few weeks back.

Go Dean!

Great quote! The speechwriter needs a big raise!

I'll even give him/her my share of the tax cut from my next paycheck. But i doubt $4 is going to stimulate anything.

Right on Howard!

You Dean folks need to remember that elections are won or lost in the conservative midwestern industrial swing states like Ohio, Michigan, Illinois. Dean can't win these states. He's too liberal for folks like my culturally conservative "Reagan Democrat" relatives back home in Ohio. You can't win an election without Ohio. Ask every presidential loser about that for the last 50 years. "As Ohio goes, so goes the nation," is what they say here in Washington.

Two thoughts after scanning this string:

On the healthcare issue, we can get everyone what they need, just get ready to pay for it. DoD already has TRICARE for Seniors. It picks up all costs, even drugs, that Medicare does not cover. My parents have to pay zip for healthcare and believe me, my Dad may break the system yet. Hang in there, Dad.

On Dean, thank God he's got some right-leaning tendencies on certain issues. That makes him moderate and that means electable. Swing voters decide elections, we just need them to swing the right way. This is why Clinton was electable in '92 even though he was not well-known and from a relatively politically unimportant state. The question for Dean is if he can pull some Southern votes. It seems hard to win without any of the South on your side. Damn, Gore couldn't even carry Tennessee. I like what I see in Dean, not just automatically liberal to pander to the Democrat party, but willing to think and state his own positions on important issues, be they liberal or conservative. Finally, thank you Howard Dean for making my civil union possible. It was the next step at that time. And I believe he will continue to support our cause.

Dean does not need to win even one Southern state. Is it not the case that if he were to win all the states Gore won, which is possible, he'd only need to pick up New Hampshire to defeat W?

As someone else noted, the battleground states for him would be Michigan, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, possibly New Mexico, and New Hampshire. He could win Illinois, New Jersey, New York, California, Oregon, Washington, Iowa, Hawai'i, Maryland, and all of New England, meaning he'd only need those industrial states, where the economy is crapola right now, to defeat W.

If he runs with someone like Clark, who's from Arkansas and has populist positions as well as a distinguished military background, Dean could even win Arkansas, and possibly Kentucky, Missouri, and Florida...though the latter state might be tough given that Jebbie's probably finding ways to purge those voter rolls and rig the machines again.

But Graham could give him Florida. Ohio would not be necessary, nor Tennessee, for a Democratic win.

In the latest e-mail from the Howard Dean camp, according to the latest poll out of New Hampshire, Dean is now leading Sen. Kerry!!!! The grassroots organizing, seems to really be paying off for Howard!!

"A solid conservative defending the powers of Student Council and lashing out at cynics and opponents ... and a frequent occupant of the weight room" -- how Howard Brush Dean III described himself in his senior yearbook at St. George's Preparatory Academy in Newport, Rhode Island.

That's my Howie!

Howard Dean will be Larry's guest Monday on Larry King Live!

Don't forget Dean on Larry King Live tonight!! My latest e-mail from the Dean camp talked about the tremendous momentum the camp is building. Dean is on the cover of Time, Newsweek, and U.S. News and World Report this week. And there is yet another story about Dean on msnbc this morning. So far Dean has signed up more than 250,000 supporters nationwide thus far with the goal being at least 400,000 by the next month.

and Dr.Dean has just started TV campaigns in Texas, the home state of W.Bush.

right on!