Political melodrama at its best.

TX Democratic State Legislature members have fled the state en masse to avoid voting on Tom DeLay's redistricting nightmare.

The Texas Rangers (the orginal ones, not the losers in Arlington) have been dispatched to arrest them and bring them back to Austin.

Classic. I can't wait for the mini-series.

Texas Democrats Fly the Coop

Who inspired them to refuse to cooperate? I can think of two possibilities:

1) John Galt, in \"Atlas Shrugged.\"

2) George Bush, in \"Texas Air National Guard.\"

Twin, not sure I see the same correlation as you. However, what I see is a major power scheme with limited means of stopping the action. The GOP of Texas has decided to make sure it remains in power for a long time to come by elimenating 5-7 DEM seats via redistricting. It would be likened to a President getting control of a country and deciding to change the government to a dictatorship.
In Texas, the GOP leader calls the Dems cowards and says there has never been something so atrocious done in the state legislature in the states history, yet it is the Republican party that is setting a dangerous precidence. I do not support the Democrats for bolting but I am not in their shoes. However the real cowardice is evidenced by the Republicans for making this power play to secure their future power.
What would happen if every state legislature did this every time they got into a majority situation? Nothing would get done, just as it is in Texas now. What a big waste of Texas taxpayers money by both sides!!!
In a related topic, the State legislature of GA has wasted so much taxpayer money on a stupid topic. The state Flag!!! With a new GOP governor in place for the first time in a long long time, the first order of business was to get rid of the state flag and replace it with a replica of the origional Confedrate Sates flag. It doesn't have the "stars and bars" associated with the Confed. Battle flag, but it represents the same thing. So much time has been wasted on this subject and all it will do is bring shame to the state when the cat gets out of the bag about the oridins of the new/old state flag.

[ May 13, 2003, 05:32 AM: Message edited by: wade n atlanta ]

What a nice suprise to find out that Texas Democrats have a backbone after all. I love what the New Mexico AG said when Texas lightweight Gov Perry asked whether NM would let Texas officials make arrests in their state:

"I have put out an all-points bulletin for law enforcement to be on the look out for politicians in favor of health care for the needy and against tax cuts for the wealthy."

Man -- politics can be fun sometimes! The Texas Dems. look like yeller-bellied varmints running away from a fight. But calling out the Rangers to round 'em up. Too much!

I curious to find out more about redistricting law -- states of course do it once every ten years after the federal census. And in most cases, it's a highly partisan process (Iowa being the exception).

I'm not sure of the legal propriety of re-redistricting (is that even a word??) just because one party now has a greater advantage than it did earlier in the decade. The recent main cases I know about for re-redistricting were court-mandated -- in the 90s some race-related decisions regarding NC, LA and GA.

[ May 13, 2003, 07:12 AM: Message edited by: DCBucky ]

Yellow-bellied? Please. This is awesome. From most accounts, the Republicans in Texas are totally out of control, and this redistricting thing is the last straw. The redistricting includes breaking up Austin, one of the few Democratic strongholds in the state, into FOUR separate districts that stretch hundreds of miles through rural areas and even into Houston in one case. And the public was not allowed to comment on or even look at the redistricting plan, which is common practice for these things. It's just absurd. These run-away Democrats should be commended.

Texas went through redistricting two years ago, I repeat, 2 years. This is pure power grab (or attempt at it) by Tom DeLay. Even the most conservative papers in Texas who usually kiss up to him are bashing him for this arrogant move.

I have yet to see a legal response from opponents to this plan. Sorry, but gerrymandering to create bizarrely shaped districts is an American tradition. And power grabbing is bipartisan: Democrats in California worship the late Phil Burton for his 1982 masterwork which gave Ds the overwhelming majority of the state's cds. The NC 1992 plan created a Dem. black-majority district that stretched along an interstate highway to connect different cities (from Charlotte all the way over to Raleigh-Durham).

My question again is this: Is it illegal for Texas to redraw the districts at this point?

The Democrats are holed up at the Holiday Inn in Ardmore, OK.


Gov. Perry now says he "knows" there are WOMD in the hotel and is calling out the Texas Rangers to "liberate" Ardmore.

Saaayyyy.....

As soon as I saw it, I thought, "that's a real Confederate flag, not just a battle flag." Quiz for non-Southerners: is that the First National, the Second National, or the Third National flag that the new GA flag resembles? Admittedly, I'll have to look that one up too.

I'm Guessing the Red Roof Inn was book up? Maybe the Washington Dems will take their lead and go hide in France....

A lesson to all democrats, when most of America wont vote for you and you cant pass YOUR agenda, throw a fit and hit the holiday inn.

[ May 13, 2003, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: PhillyFan ]

Typically, Texas has a redistricting every 10 years after the latest census. The last one was done TWO years ago and was actually settled in COURT.

The Dems are doing the right thing. Texas has HUGE budget problems (to the tune of about an 8 BILLION deficit), not to mention home owners insurance rates that have gone up 400% in the last two years, education funding is in shambles and the ONLY thing the Republicans are interested in doing is social issues (such as another layer to DOMA, mandatory pledge and prayer in schools, more abortion obstacles and this redistricting farce.

This is the FIRST Republican House Leader in 130 years and Texas has always been known for it's bi-partisian work done in Austin (W. ran on that remember), so the Repugs have totally f**ked up with their agenda!

The redistricting proposal is an evil plan hatched by Tom DeLay, who wants even more Rep. seats in Congress. Greedy. There's ONE street in Austin, TX that would be in FOUR (count 'em) FOUR different districts (one of which stretches in a sliver down to the border of Mexico)!

I'm so proud of these Democrats that I've sent in a donation...which I haven't done since they refused to kick Gary Condit out before his term expired.

Just Released Today:

The Texas Democrats will hold the 2004 democratic convention at the Roadway Inn, just off interstate 10. Located 10 miles inside the border of New Mexico. Food will be catered from the Waffle House located across the freeway. Advanced orders are encouraged for your hash browns.

Just a reminder to all who attend, please dont park your homes (razor, horn) in the designated 18 wheeler parking area.

Gues speaker for this years festivities will be Sen Byrd of WV. Please, only wear your clan gear on that evening.

Please help us make this event even more successful than when we lost leadership of cogress and the white house.

Sincerely,

Thomas Dash-shell....

Wow, that was highly informative.

I'm Guessing the Red Roof Inn was book up? Maybe the Washington Dems will take their lead and go hide in France....

France huh? Isnt that where Osama and Saddam are hiding out? You know, the ones we're going to get "dead or alive."

[ May 13, 2003, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: RazorbackTX ]

I found great joy at the Democratic strategy and continued frustration that the political environment is so acidic, politicians have to resort to this tactic to protect their constituents.

This was a major story on NPR today. First off, it was unprecedented to have a US Congressman meddling so arrogantly in a state redistricting process. Talk about letting the fox run the henhouse. There was a great deal of criticism of Tom DeLay and his rather abhorrent tactics.

Second, the redistricting plan was so far beyond anything seen since Reconstruction, that it was truly laughable. The plan calls for one district to consist of a very conservative enclave in northern Austin, follow a sliver of territory only two city blocks wide for a distance of 300 miles, and then end at another conservative enclave on the Mexican border. How in anyone's definition is that a representative district? It is not. And the redistricting rules do have some checks in place.

Redistricting is a process that allows the party in power to gain some benefit every 10 years following the census. However, the advantage is always balanced through public hearings and a confirmation process that takes into account whether any of the new districts are just plain unrepresentative. The reporting from Texas is that the GOP plan is just being shoved through due to their current majority (one they have not been able to achieve in the past 100 years). It is so blatantly unethical, that most Texans are rather skeptical.

I also heard that the Oklahoma legislature has invited all of the Texas politicians on the run to come stay in Ok City and enjoy a night on the town with them. Apparently, everyone but the Texas GOP finds the situation rather exhilirating.

A night on the town in OK CITY...... ohhhhh someone pinch me! That wouldnt even excite Razor.

Of course NPR carried this, they only report from the democrats viewpoint. Non-objective Publicly funded Radio...

Just another example of Democrats nationwide who cannot accept their loss of power. They lost the US House in 1994, the US Senate--stunningly--in 2002, Texas, Georgia, and other places where they've been in power for so long, and now they can't accept it.

It's just another example of how Democrats truly believe they are divinely entitled to be in control. Threaten their control, and they will do ANYthing, even violate laws or bring down a state's or the country's government if they must, to regain power.

Then again, when Republicans finally gain control, they have no idea what do to with it or how to exercise it. They can usually be found incessantly whining, giving in to the opposition under the bullshit guise of "bipartisanhip," and acting like Democrats, so effectively, there's no difference.

Origionally posted by phillyfan:
Gues speaker for this years festivities will be Sen Byrd of WV. Please, only wear your clan gear on that evening.

Might I remind you that is a GOP governor that has changed the GA state flag to the origional Confederate States flag. Don't confuse your parties. It is your party, the Republican Party that is bent on oppressing the poor huddled masses, those minorities longing for equal rights, those trying to pay taxes to right the ship. THe clan as you put it is very right wing and use the Bible to oppress those they don't like. Sounds alot like Lott and Santorum!

You clearly know absolutely nothing about Texas politics.

Razor, maybe for next years budget, you and the TX dems can do a roadie to New Orleans? Little Rock Aint too far away either....

Better yet, everyone just go out front.... stomp your feet.... and throw a hissy fit.

Only if you promise to join us and give a presentation on Trickle Down economics.

Swing by Dallas on the way and we'll show you what a Super Bowl trophy looks like.

[ May 14, 2003, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: RazorbackTX ]

I'm coming to visit for 3 weeks.... Sort of like the in-laws that wont leave... you better be a good cook.

Super Bowl Trophy? You remember that far back? Try and remember the Glory days when the cowboys could win more than 5 games a year... ahhhh those were the days...

[ May 14, 2003, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: PhillyFan ]

One of the missing pieces of information came out today. Texas already has a finalized, court approved redistricting plan in place based on the 2000 census. This latest round of shenanigans is the GOP's way of trying to displace the work that is already complete and take advantage of the political landscape. This is not a normal, nor an accepted process. That is why the Democrats are protesting in the only way available to them.

As usual, those Texas Republicans are trying to rewrite the books in their favor (just like those Texans in DC), and are crying because their tactics aren't working. Too bad. Do it the right way next time, and there won't be these kinds of problems.

We won 3 in the 90's. You seem to bring up the 90's ALOT, must not be that far back!

How many did the Eagles win? Ever?

Oh, never mind, I know the answer to that!

The same number of cowboy players who are NOT In jail from the 90's team, or beat up their wives, or picked up a hooker, or used coke.

Or the same number of cowboy fans left in the stadium if the INS showed up... you choose.

Phillyfan,
You are really going over the edge these days. Many of your comments are completely uncalled for, rude, and very offensive. What's going on that you are attacking everyone?
First Dems, and Razor, then Old people, now the hispanic population of Dallas? Who's next?
Come on buddy get a grip of your slander.

PhillyFan has been quite fond of the subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) bashing of Hispanics on numerous threads and I've already called him on it at least once. It's rather sickening.

BTW, that 2000 Texas Redistricting Plan was actually approved by a panel of Federal Judges (with most of of said judges placed there by Republicans).

The real point for Democrats is that Texans have FAR more pressing matters at hand EVEN if the long laborious and contentious process of a new redistricting plan happened to be anywhere remotely appropriate right now. The Governor has already said (before this happened) that he was calling a Special Session of the Legislature to handle the school funding problem. Right now, their immediate concern is covering a $10 Billion budget deficit (thank you dubya).

ANY reason for redistricting right now could only be ludicrous and insane (which pretty much describes Tom DeLay in a nutshell, but I digress). Tom DeLay simply wants 7 more guaranteed Republican seats in Congress, and he wants 'em NOW by God.

Several other States are on Karl Rove's list to pressure for immediate redistricting...Georgia being one for sure. They just thought Texas would take the ass-rape quietly. Hope all Dems nationwide show as much spine as my fellow Texans have this week. I am very proud of them.

If you are a Dem, contact the party and let them know you approve (and send money to make sure they heard you). wink

Isn't it scary to think about how bad the US economy will be when the President moves on? The truest statement in the world is that past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. Just over two years after he left the Governorship of Texas, the state is in economic shambles and the Republican majority is trying to squeeze more political power out of their advantage rather than addressing the real issues of the state. Bush left a wrecked machine in Texas and it has finally caught up with the state. Does anyone honestly think that this is not a realistic preview of how the rest of the US will struggle in a few years?

Someone earlier talked about how the Democrats could not take being out of control of the political process, etc. I don't think it is about not being in control. I think it is about recognizing that the people in control do not have any interest in the welfare of the country as a whole. When the Democrats were in control in the 90s, they did not spend their time trying to extract every last ounce of political advantage from the situation. They passed legislation that helped us prosper as a country and that looked out for good social programs.

The Republicans are unable to put together a realistic agenda. If Bush were actually putting out half of what he promised during the campaign, there would be far fewer of us feeling so upset. The fact is that he has gone back on almost everything (except the tax breaks for his friends and contributors) he said he was committed to in the campaign. It was a preview of the double-speak and slogan-led presidency he has had to-date.

More than you can possibly imagine, razor. More than you can possibly imagine. wink

Yeah and they used to call that gerrymandering back in the 1700s. Wonder why that didnt apply in today's law. I for one didnt like being part of a district running along an interstate highway!! And whats good for black folks in Charlotte isnt exactly good for black folks in Greensboro or Durham, so I dont see the necessity to lump them together just because theyre black.
I saw districts should all be big squares. They should encompass equal amounts of people. Then that way you can have candidates on an equal footing, instead of incumbents receiving 90% of the vote like Mel Watt.

We'll also show you what a river with no water looks like, that the Cowboys plan on building next to

Im surprised Texas hasnt declared its independence again from the US, just so we dont have to act like a real state like the rest of the union. I mean come on. Your elected officials just cant up and leave the state because they dont want to vote on something. We elected them to vote for us right? Well then do it! If you want to set up shop in Oklahoma, then get the hell out of Texas!

[quote]DallasUNC
[[/qb][/quote]We'll also show you what a river with no water looks like, that the Cowboys plan on building next to

[/QB][/QUOTE]

Do you mean a Wash? Whats it's gonna be called the Jerry Dome? complete with a face lift lid that comes off? Stip club for th players? Where do the crack head hang out, oh yeah... in the locker room.

I hope Razor has a comfortable couch. Screw it, i'm taking the bed.

Here's an interesting irony piece from the Texas Democratic Party:

AUSTIN - More than 160 years ago, future Republican President Abraham Lincoln participated in breaking a quorum of the Illinois Legislature, a stand on principle echoed by the Killer D's today, said Molly Beth Malcolm, Texas Democratic Party Chairwoman.

As a member of the minority Whig Party in the Illinois Legislature, Lincoln joined in a planned disappearance to prevent a legislative maneuver by the majority party that he believed to be unfair.

In 1840, the majority Democrats had plotted against the Illinois State Bank, a favorite cause of the Whigs. Angered, the Whigs disappeared to an undisclosed location, and Lincoln arrived to force the chamber to call for a recorded vote - a request that Lincoln and the Whigs knew, in the absence of a quorum, would bring business to a halt.

Unfortunately for Lincoln, just enough missing members arrived to achieve a quorum. Lincoln sought to leave the chamber, but the door had been locked. Lincoln then escaped by jumping out of the chamber's second story window.

"How ironic," Malcolm said. "Though they did it by taking a bus to Ardmore instead of jumping out of a window, our heroic, hard-working House Democrats are standing on the same principle held by the most respected Republican President ever.

"The House Democrats have worked long hours this entire session, and now they are working very hard to stop a redistricting plan that would needlessly divide cities and rural areas and diminish minority voting strength," she said. "They are on a mission for Texas, not a vacation for themselves."

"Today, they are working hard in Ardmore on legislation that will have a big impact on Texas' future," she said. "Just like Honest Abe, the House Democrats take their jobs very seriously - which is what led them to take this historic step in the first place."

The GOP shot itself in the foot with its overreaction to the D's publicity stunt -- the new federal Dept. of Homeland Security was called in to help look for the lawmakers.

"Department officials said Texas law enforcement officials had misled them into believing that the plane might have been in mechanical trouble or had crashed.

In fact, department officials said, the Texas state police, acting on orders of Republicans who control the Texas House of Representatives, were searching for the plane on Monday to try to track down the Democratic lawmaker and several of his colleagues, in hopes of forcing them home and establishing a quorum that would allow a vote on a disputed Republican redistricting plan. ...

The disclosure that the resources of the Department of Homeland Security had been diverted to such a local, partisan dispute drew angry denunciations from Democrats in Texas and Washington." [from the Times]

Curious that redistricting plan backer Tom DeLay (R-Hell) " ... suggested to reporters earlier this week that federal agencies might be appropriately used to track down the errant Democratic legislators ..." hmmmmm

btw -- the plan's dead -- the Dems won.

[ May 16, 2003, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: DCBucky ]

Lincoln was obviously a "chicken", "traitor" and "threw a fit" and walked away. Wait, he was a republican, that means he was standing on principle and a was a hero.

Didn't the supreme court strike down those North Carolina districts? :confused:

Yes -- as I understand it wasn't because of their wierd shapes but because race was used as the primary factor for drawing them.

A state can still construct oddly-shaped districts on the basis of protecting incumbents through party registration -- that's OK by the court's standard. Check out this map of the Atlanta area for example. Or look at Illinois 4th.

Iowa has the best system -- a nonpartisan commission draws up the districts (trying to keep counties and communities intact) -- as a result, all five congressional races last fall were actually competitive.

[ May 16, 2003, 07:23 AM: Message edited by: DCBucky ]

I think we all know which posters here will disagree with Molly Ivins' assessment of the Austin rebellion...

Funny, Twin, I too thought of Ayn Rand, but it was when I read this self-righteous quote in the Ivins column from the GOP side of the standoff...

Any surprise that the fascist DeLiar wants to use the government to harass and track down democratically elected legislators? More on the growing fascism in our country:
ACLU: Attacks on Dissent and Civil Liberties since 9/11

It's a GREAT day for Texas Democrats! Woo-Hoo!

Apparently the Supreme Court (with 7 Republican appointees), doesn't see it that way. The Court vacated the 5th Circuit's ruling and instructed the lower court to reevaluate the case.

I guess even the Supremes know sh*t when they smell it.

They are still trying to repent for the wrong they did in 2000...they still have a lot of repenting to do for that screw-up!

If you're going to reach so far back into the past to post, KWG, the least you could do is post completely. (FRE 106.) MIB's post stated complaints against BOTH parties.

But back to the present, if not the future: maybe the 5th Circuit should include those counties of OK, AR and any other neighboring states where the Demos hid out within their newly redrawn districts. And all this time I thought this was a job for the legislature!

For the misinformed, the Texas legislature had an opportunity to act on redistricting in the 2001 session and did nothing about it. So, the courts drew up a map and it was adopted. However, when the 2003 session got under way, the Republicans were not happy with it and decided to redraw it in the 2003 session-that-went-on-forever. The Democrats who were against the second redistricting (it is done ONCE every 10 years based on census figures), stood their ground and left the state twice.

Yep, that was one thing you could always count on the old MIB for--if they GOP got caught with their hands in the cookie jar, his retort always was, "and the Dems are just as bad."

However, this case isn't about the Dems; it's about the Rethuglicans in Texas. And despite your wealth of knowledge on the issue, it seems that a few other attorneys (i.e, the Supreme Court) disagree with your legal analysis.

Now try to defend Delay's actions with the Homeland Security Department.

[ October 18, 2004, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: KeyWest Guy ]

If your going to claim MIB"s words were taken out of context, perhaps you should remind people of what he actually said (a few of us are far too lazy to scroll back up to find the original post).

Sounds like MIB is saying that Republicans disgust him when they act like Democrats. Not exactly doling out equal time on the condemnation here. Rather than saying both parties are behaving reprehensibly, MIB is saying that anything the Democrats do is reprehensible and any Republican behavior that could be defined as reprehensible is merely something the Democrats do as a matter of course.

Is that a sentiment you endorse, gmginsfo?