The American death toll in Iraq is about to turn another corner: 1,000 dead. Is this what the chimp meant when he proclaimed: "Mission accomplished"? Is this the result of tossed flowers? Is this what happens when you lie to the American public? These families have gone thru hell thanks to Bush and his single-minded goal. John Kerry: "We won't go to war because we want to, we will go to war because we have to."
CNN Story

[ March 03, 2005, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: bobby78751 ]

A catastrophic success indeed.

I believe I just heard on the radio that according to AP, the total is 999 as of 12:00 EST. I haven't been able to verify this yet.

Not that it causes an eyeblink among most of W's supporters, though. Hell, they and their kids aren't going over there.

"Mission accomplished."

BTW, any word on the $8+ billion that the American CPA blew through? Any investigation?

What about most of the $87 billion that GOPers voted against and then for, and W threatened to veto, then signed on to (FLIPFLOP)? Any word on where most of it went (not to the Iraqis OR our troops)?

[ March 03, 2005, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

Yes, it is now 999.

1000 dead, so far

the AP story confirming 1000.

A sobering momemnt for us all.

Not to mention all the others killed - particularly innocent civilians. And many of the almost 4,000 injuries are equally devastating.

A sad day indeed.

Sounds like a cake and ice cream celebration for some of you!

Sorry, you were the one celebrating the impending death (prematurely) of someone. How anyone could see 1,000 dead Americans in a pointless, poorly executed war as any sort of victory is a mystery.

Yeah I especially like Rumsfeld's comment something to the effect considering we have multiple operations going on its already been over 1000 dead (guess if youd include Afghanistan and other areas). As if this were something trivial. I think hes missing the point, that in Iraq ALONE, 1000 people have been killed. 75% of which have died in combat after combat supposedly ended. I stand by my bumper sticker: Mission Not Accomplished.

Must suck that the only hope for your candidate rests on about another 1,000 added to that number.

Maybe you guys can get pom poms?

And your candidate is?

#1 What about "your candidate" PhillyCoward?

#2 If we needed pom poms we could borrow them from you since you're the biggest war cheerleader/chickenhawk that Outsports has.

Hey lil Chickenhawk you obviously don't give a damn about our dead soldiers but others do. You don't get something for nothing. So why don't you take your brave patriotic keyboard over there and help Allawi out. Sign up, patriot, tally ho!

We'll just use your girlfriend's ... she's too close to her due date to get out of bed anyway, which is why the toddler fetches all your beers while you're watching Springer.

Vigils are being planned for Thursday night at places all across the country. For more information, please go here and make plans to attend. There will be no speeches just people gathered together in peace to acknowledge remorse for the the thousands of lives taken in this war. Please attend if a vigil is in your area.

This is a webpage W should be forced to see every day.

It took 18 months to get to 1,000 dead. Just 6 months later, we have reach 1,500. Does no one else see the accelerating number of dead Americans? And don't forget the unconfirmed number of Iraqis killed (listed at 100,000 in this story) that our regime would much rather keep under wraps.

CNN Story

[ March 03, 2005, 07:30 AM: Message edited by: bobby78751 ]

This is a thread that lately only Mr. Bobby seems to see every day. But to answer his questions, as an informed citizen, I see the numbers. As a human being, I regret them. But as a veteran I understand them, and as an American I accept them as part of the price of ending terror and extending democracy.

Ending terror? What part of Iraq was involved in terrorism? That's right, not one part of Iraq was involved in terrorism, 9/11, or WMDs. These facts have been proven. The administration was warned terrorist would flood into Iraq if we invaded and that has happened. What's your argument now?

I think the scarier thing, for me, is a graph I saw on DailyKos that compared death tolls in Viet Nam and Iraq, starting in 1961 for Viet Nam, I believe. The death toll is higher for Iraq than for Viet Nam at the same point in the conflict length, which makes sense given that we never launched a full-scale invasion of Viet Nam, but the pattern appears basically identical, with the ramping up in numbers killed by month.

What is not clear from these numbers is the total picture of how our occupation of Iraq is really going. The elections do not seem to have changed the death rate, but I have not seen data on the number of attacks/day on American troops or Iraqi guardsman, which were used as a sign of the escalation of the insurgency last year. We also have not clear picture of how the infrastructure of Iraq is holding up, probably because most of the journalists in the country are too afraid to venture outside the safe "Green Zone" in the center of Bagdhad.

As for fighting terror, although the small gains in democracy in the Middle East may be good in the long term for reducing the threat of terrorism, I can't help but wonder whether the anti-American resentment in the region, which has only grown during our occupation, can more than offset that. Certainly Iraq is now a beacon for terrorists, and may become a new base of power for Al Queda - and that is a DIRECT result of our invasion.

How different it all might have been had Bush allowed the inspections to continue and had been able to put together a truly multi-national/UN-backed coalition. We could still have Hussein out of power, but without an insurgency, and without 1,500 dead Americans (not to mention tens of thousands of dead Iraqis).

Why do you guys hate America?? Don't you see its necessary for young Americans to die in order to bring freedom to Iraqis so that we can stop the terrorists in Afghanistan!! And think about how much more democracy and freedom Americans will enjoy once after we've taken out North Korea, Iran, and Syria too!

Why yes !! I am seeing the Thousand Points of Light as I revel in the New World Order !!!!!!!!

I saw on the news today that the number of people signing up for the Marines and National Guard were under the expectation (which had been met for years, until the previous few months). And there were also quite a few people who had signed up in the past who did not show up for boot camp.

It's not too surprising that Americans want the war but don't have an interest in themselves or any people around them to fight in it.

Recruiting goals are way down especially for the Army and the Marines. There's a lot of upset people in the military with the way the war is being run. Lets hope Bush and his cronies will hopefully decide that 1500 is enough.

Naw, they got to get at least 2000 total deaths 'cause somewheres in the book of Revelations there's sumthin about that number, and Ive read the Bible and its good, but somewhere in there it says that 2000 is a neato number.-- Paraphrased from a past and future George Bush sound byte.

The Young Republicans aren't signing up in droves?

USA Today: Army misses recruiting goals

Sign up red patriots, sign up!

Um, guys, I hate to be a downer, but the Associated Press has been saying we have approached the 1,500 mark of dead soilders in Iraq.

Why, yes! Now I see one of the Thousand Points of Light! Let's just withdraw from Iraq and have nothing more to do with it! People proposing that don't bother to follow up on what comes after. And shame on us for removing one of the most brutal and corrupt dictators of the 20th century! Even if he hid or destroyed his WMDs and no longer was able to provide financial support and safe havens for terrorists, he should have been allowed to remain in power. And how foolish we were to think that by invading Iraq and thereby drawing hordes of terrorists into it, like bail jumpers enticed to a free car giveaway, where we could then eliminate them, we might actually do some good for the region and foster democracy.

Perhaps the fact that the President's resolve is working, albeit painfully and longer than anticipated, is the REAL cause of the left's consternation. Fine, confusion to the enemy - wherever found!

You are one of the most clueless people ever! First of all, there were no terror connections (how many times must you be reminded of this FACT?), so we should have never invaded Iraq in the first place. Bush and his fellow crooks should have stayed focused on Osama...but that's too hard to do, right? After all, we need a visual to keep people scraed. Second of all, why aren't we going after North Korea or Cuba if you are talking about getting rid of evil dictators? As for Saddam destroying his WMDs...where is the proof of that? Of course, there is none. Even the Washington regime isn't stupid enough to say something ignorant like that...and that says a lot!

We went there on a mission, and now the mission's bearing fruit. Those troops didn't die in vain.

Remember how everyone laughed about Bush bringing Democracy to the Middle East anyone? Not laughing anymore. Is what's happening (slowly) in Saudi Arabia and Egypt and Quatar and other countries, and what's happening quickly in Lebanon and Syria lost on you? Am I too optimistic about what looks like the start of a transformation of the Middle East? Could what's happening in Israel have happened but for Bush?

Yes, Bush was wrong about the terrorist link and WOMD. But there's a lot of good things happening that he gets credit for. A lot of good things. And if it keeps up, talk about a total transformation of a region that, before his vision, seemed doomed to be stuck in a fed position.

Please let me know if I'm wrong about this. I haven't had time to read about the various developments as much as I'd like to. I hate the phrase "the various developments" btw.

After an Italian journalist had been freed and was being transported, American troops shot at the car as it approached a check point, wounding the freed hostage and killing an Italian intelligence officer.

And keep in mind Italy is one of the few bigger countries supporting the Iraq situation, although with little public support. This obviously won't help.

Freed hostage fired on...

According to this report there were two Italian agents in the car. One was killed 'protecting the journalist with his body' and the other critically wounded.

Italian public opinion seems to be turning more against their involvement in 'this senseless war' which, for some reason Berlusconi insists on continuing. How long can he sustain the heat?

Your history is kind of blind. Saudi Arabia is not a democracy and never will be. Its a kingdom run by wealthy oilmen. Quatar is also a kingdom, who happens to have an Emir who's wife is progressive and smart. Egypt has been a democracy (like it or not) since before Bush was finished snorting coke in college. Lebanon is also a democracy. Has been for a while (thats why they have power to force governments to resign). Syria- well theyre an elected government- but guess who- Baathists.

The only change in any of these countries is brought on by the fear of the United States invading them and destroying those in power, like we just did with 2 other countries. The Syrians arent stupid. They will end up complying, just as Lybia did. But its not from any grand vision of rainbows, thats for sure.

I'm one of those horrible lefties who is appalled by our leaderships' decision to launch this illegal and corrupt war, but I am also someone who has said since 1991 that we had a duty to take Saddam out. We helped create the monster in the 80s, we stood by and allowed his atrocities when it was convenient for us, and then we left the Iraqi people hanging when we did not finish the job in the first Gulf War.

But that does not, in any way shape or form, justify Bush' decision to go to war, or his administration's rank incompetence at managing the war and the occupation that has followed.

Had Bush done what a good leader should have done - waited for the inspections process to play out, build a real international coalition (now, what other President managed to do that? I simply can't remember), and launch a UN, NOT US-led, war, we could have had the removal of Hussein AND democracy in Iraq AND most of the 1,500 American lives, not to mention the hundreds of billions of American $$ (including the $$ we used to bribe countries like Poland to enter the "coalition" with us) this war has consumed.

There is a very real question as to whether these ends justify the means to achieve them, and there is almost no doubt that the means could have been handled and managed much, much better.

You see, gmginsfo, there is a region of opinion in between those who believe we should not have gone into Iraq and those who believe that W is the g*d-damned second coming of Christ himself.

Also dealing with numbers in the military, in a recent edition of the Economist, there was a one page column about how the U.S. should allow gays to serve openly, since it has been instituted in several other countries without the problems that U.S. officials cite. In it it stated the number of gays lost in the military because of the rule and said a few hundred foreign language specialists have also been sent packing, including 20-30 Arab speaking specialists (which is not a very common thing).

If there was no oil in Iraq, we would not be there.

I cannot call myself "left" or "right". I am ashamed to be part of a system like this. A systems of lies and folks that perpetuate the lies. A country where 50 million people are that dumb and think our behavior at home and abroad is OKAY. They think in the long run this policy of consumption and oiled manifest destiny will have some benefit despite a ruined habitat.

I just want to be happy, healthy and sustainable as I ride my bike through the trees. What does that make me? HUMAN?

Erik G, stick to the bike paths. It is very difficult to ride a bike through a tree. And yup, you're human. Welcome to the race.

I agree. Just think what would happen if North Korea had oil!

Yes, I know. As my posts have consistently made abundantly clear, I'm right in the middle of that crowd.* But to paraphrase Justice OWHolmes, "17 rejections of inspections is enough!" As Ari Fleischer mentioned on "Morning Edition" today, we may have been wrong about WMD as justification for going into Iraq, but we needed to nevertheless because no one else - the UN, most/worst of all - had the "courage of their convictions" to do so.
_____
*The insistence of many left-wing gays that ALL gays be stridently orthodox in their opposition to President Bush reminds me of one of TJefferson's writings on religious toleration. In a nutshell, he observed that for some religious zealots it's not good enough to just practice toleration and free exercise; they demand regular and open displays of what they call piety to the exclusion of lesser or more private exercises of faith. Sound familiar?

There is a long and detailed article in the New York Times about the mis-steps and mistakes that were encountered when the military tried to properly equip our fighting forces in Iraq. It is not a happy read.

One key quote:

Many Missteps Tied to Delay in Armor for Troops in Iraq (Registration Required)

I can only contrast the Bush administration to the FDR administration, which carefully planned and coordinated the effort to ensure the Allies had the supplies needed to win the war - even though it meant losing a lot of battles before we began really fighting back. Certainly WWII was a much bigger undertaking than Gulf War II, but I have to wonder whether the Bush administration's own refusal to even consider a different occupation scenario than the "they'll be greeting us as heros and throwing flowers" is the basic reason why our troops do not have the supplies they need, at a cost of many lives and injuries.

Sadly enough, the conduct of Gulf War II seems more in line with Hitler's advance on Russia, where winter clothing was not issued because the Germans never considered the war would last past the summer.

Hubris alone has never won a war, and it is high time, no matter where you stand on the Iraq invasion, that we (especially the media) hold the Bush administration accountable for their misjudgements and mistakes.

"Zieg Heil to the President Gasman / bombs away is your punishment / Pulverize the Eiffel Towers / who criticize your government"
Green Day
"Holiday"
from the cd AMERICAN IDIOT.

[ March 07, 2005, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: bobby78751 ]

I propose a new law where only the idiots who voted for this Administration in November have to go fight for this war...we might see some people lose their pro-war stance all of a sudden.

dfw, it's not so much a "pro-war stance" as it is a pro-democracy/anti-tyranny one for most of us who supported going into Iraq. This is especially so among many of us veterans, who've already served and know exactly what's at stake and what it takes to accomplish it.

Interesting interview on KPBS here in SD this a.m. with the head of the LATimes' SD bureau, newly-returned from Iraq. In response to my question whether the troops felt any sense of disillusionment or "betrayal" following the "revelation" that WMD were not found, he responded with a firm denial, based upon his months of being over there and talking with the troops as these events unfolded. In fact, he went on to note that the failure to find WMDs is a non-issue for the troops who, according to him, know exactly why they're there and are confident of what they're doing. I thanked him for confirming my belief - and wished him well in keeping his job under Michael Kinsley. wink

Good. I'm glad to know that you know how to fight. Therefore, we won't need to waste any money on training you when you volunteer to go fight in this war you support.

I love how I was supposed to be for this war in the beginning, because Iraq had these destructive weapons that they could sell to terrorists...and the terrorists could use these weapons against us in another attack.

However, now I'm supposed to be for this war because we're spreading democracy and stamping out tyranny.

So, which is it? I'm so confused on what to think anymore...I guess I should have gone to church yesterday. They seem to be good at telling people what to think...

Easy, easy solution to your quandary: Just be for whatever the Chimp in Chief (or Karl Rove) says is the cause for the day. Then act like a tranquilized cow and chew your cud. Be sure to tune in tomorrow to see what's on the plan for that day...but be careful because it will probably be an issue at odds with what was said today.

[ March 07, 2005, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: bobby78751 ]

GMG i respect your opinion but I have a few friends in Iraq and they dont really understand why we are there or agree with why we are there. They arent just Air Force either but Army and Marines. I'm sure there are quite a few troops that do agree with you, but theres a pretty big group that do question the actions we took in Iraq and are still taking.

My brother has Gulf War Syndrome (radiation poisoning). So whenever he gets back to Minnesota he is too wiped to go for a ride.

I think that after seeing surrendering troops shot and then buried by bulldozers, things kind of change. At some point the schrapnel bombing of women and children as you protect the pipeline seems rather un-American.

This entire chapter in history was completely avoidable. If we would have stuck to what Carter funded and Reagan cut, we would have enjoyed 20 years of freedom from oil tyranny. We would not have grain rotting in silos. We would be distilling it for fuel. Those supposed brutal governments would not have the oil money to subjugate their masses. Imagine the social and political implications at home in the U.S.. The Bushes would have to have real jobs like the rest of us

Erik G all the best to your brother. He's in my prayers and hope he gets better

Very nice post