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bobby78751
QUOTE
PhillyFan:
Or will you do what you always do, forget about that and move onto something new as W checks off another duty and all but guarantees re-election... to your horror. For a stupid man, he sure does a great job of upstaging ya'all pinko's.
If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times, he has to have been elected to be RE-elected. W being elected to office would be just one of the many worst moments in modern history. If he is elected, I expect him to create an alternative flag and some kind of hand salute in his first elected term.

And, yes, he is a very stupid man with some evil spin doctors and PowerPoint wizards behind the magic curtain.
Eastsidewa
Bobby: Ever tried Therapy? Let it go. Al Gore did. wink wink
Herr Tiggee
Not to get off topic, but why is Philly Fan referring to you as bluebird, Bobby?

Back to topic - anyone see the Daily Show last night? With the footage of Saddam having his hair examined, Stewart commented, "And then they checked him for lice, and declared him a member of the 'You Need a Baath Party'."
Bill W
The Daily Show identified the flashlight in the mouth exam as a WMD search... "We finally found the man who had nothing to do with September 11."

Sure do y'all upstage bla bla bla uh huh duty ... will you guys STOP encouraging the subliterate?
RazorbackTX
If anyone is interested in seeing Saddam's spider hole in person HalliburtonAir is offering a round trip fare starting at only $750,000.

Contact HalliburtonAir or the Republican National Committee for more info.

Soft drinks and a "light snack" will be served on the flight by Log Cabin volunteers.
PhillyFan
QUOTE
Bill W:
The Daily Show identified the flashlight in the mouth exam as a WMD search... \"We finally found the man who had nothing to do with September 11.\"

Sure do y'all upstage bla bla bla uh huh duty ... will you guys STOP encouraging the subliterate?
Ah what would the day be without hearing from the bitter-broken-down archie bunker... Must really suck to live everyday under such gloomy-hateful-skies... carry on!
MIB
QUOTE
fantomas:
Excuse me, but Herbert Walker wasn't TOLD to do anything. He assembled a coalition, which we LED, and drove Saddam out of Kuwait. You do realize this, right?
Yes, he assembled a coalition. Yes, he drove Saddam out of Kuwait. In fact, he at first wanted to continue through Baghdad, as Gen. Norman had urged, but when the international community vehemently protested this, Bush backed off.

For the record, I think that was a big mistake. He should have finished the job.
MIB
QUOTE
bobby78751:
If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times, he has to have been elected to be RE-elected. W being elected to office would be just one of the many worst moments in modern history. If he is elected, I expect him to create an alternative flag and some kind of hand salute in his first elected term.
Pursuant to the U.S. Constitution, he surely was elected, despite the renegade FL. Supreme Court's attempts to prevent this.
bobby78751
QUOTE
AU Tiger in LA:
Not to get off topic, but why is Philly Fan referring to you as bluebird, Bobby?
I have no idea, he (she?) won't even tell me why I am referred to as that. I have asked several different times and I get no response. I guess it's better than being a red like FillyPhan! :-)
fantomas
QUOTE
Ok, so here's one of the Congresspeople MIB was talking about who's truly beholden to the "radical left." sad.gif

(Memo to McD: Can you PLEASE keep your mouth shut--or consider letting a Democrat who's less off on the fringe run for your seat?)
fantomas
QUOTE
Originally quoth MIB:
Pursuant to the U.S. Constitution, he surely was elected, despite the renegade FL. Supreme Court's attempts to prevent this.
Pursuant to the US Constitution, the US House of Representatives would have duly elected him to his position. The US Supreme Court wrongly elevated him instead. I'm with Bobby.

(Apropos of nothing, Bobby, did you ever see those Vincent Price phone commercials from the late 1970s, where he says, in that inimitable and priceless accent of his, something to the effect of "I'm going to call my niece Bobbie in Saint Louis"? He was a character!)
Jim Allen
Bobby, Bluebird was a guy who posted here like it was a compulsion. He sometimes didn't make sense. He's been gone for a while, so PF needs a need playtime buddy.
MIB
QUOTE
fantomas:
The US Supreme Court wrongly elevated him instead.
All they did was tell the FL. Supreme Court that it did not have the constitutional authority to do what the FL. State Legislature was empowered to do. When the FL. Supreme Court, as their Democratic Chief Justice admitted, disregarded the U.S. Constitution and federal U.S. codes, the U.S. Supreme Court had no choice but to rule the way they did.

QUOTE
Relevant U.S. Codes claimed (in whole or in part) to have been usurped by the FL. Supreme Court
Sec. 2. - Failure to make choice on prescribed day

Whenever any State has held an election for the purpose of choosing electors, and has failed to make a choice on the day prescribed by law, the electors may be appointed on a subsequent day in such a manner as the legislature of such State may direct

Sec. 5. - Determination of controversy as to appointment of electors

If any State shall have provided, by laws enacted prior to the day fixed for the appointment of the electors, for its final determination of any controversy or contest concerning the appointment of all or any of the electors of such State, by judicial or other methods or procedures, and such determination shall have been made at least six days before the time fixed for the meeting of the electors, such determination made pursuant to such law so existing on said day, and made at least six days prior to said time of meeting of the electors, shall be conclusive, and shall govern in the counting of the electoral votes as provided in the Constitution, and as hereinafter regulated, so far as the ascertainment of the electors appointed by such State is concerned.

Sec. 6. - Credentials of electors; transmission to Archivist of the United States and to Congress; public inspection


It shall be the duty of the executive of each State, as soon as practicable after the conclusion of the appointment of the electors in such State by the final ascertainment, under and in pursuance of the laws of such State providing for such ascertainment, to communicate by registered mail under the seal of the State to the Archivist of the United States a certificate of such ascertainment of the electors appointed, setting forth the names of such electors and the canvass or other ascertainment under the laws of such State of the number of votes given or cast for each person for whose appointment any and all votes have been given or cast; and it shall also thereupon be the duty of the executive of each State to deliver to the electors of such State, on or before the day on which they are required by section 7 of this title to meet, six duplicate-originals of the same certificate under the seal of the State; and if there shall have been any final determination in a State in the manner provided for by law of a controversy or contest concerning the appointment of all or any of the electors of such State, it shall be the duty of the executive of such State, as soon as practicable after such determination, to communicate under the seal of the State to the Archivist of the United States a certificate of such determination in form and manner as the same shall have been made; and the certificate or certificates so received by the Archivist of the United States shall be preserved by him for one year and shall be a part of the public records of his office and shall be open to public inspection; and the Archivist of the United States at the first meeting of Congress thereafter shall transmit to the two Houses of Congress copies in full of each and every such certificate so received at the National Archives and Records Administration.

Sec. 7. - Meeting and vote of electors

The electors of President and Vice President of each State shall meet and give their votes on the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December next following their appointment at such place in each State as the legislature of such State shall direct.
Note that when the word "state" is used, it applies not to the judiciary of a particular state, but to the state legislature, which shall have the sole and final authority in determining its electors, judiciary's intervention notwithstanding.

I might not have liked for the U.S. Supreme Court to be involved, you may not have liked for the U.S. Supreme Court to be involved, but at least I viewed it in constitutional terms and not partisan terms, which is what the Left to this day still believes.

[ December 16, 2003, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: MIB ]
RazorbackTX
QUOTE
Jim Allen:
Bobby, Bluebird was a guy who posted here like it was a compulsion. He sometimes didn't make sense. He's been gone for a while, so PF needs a need playtime buddy.
Wait, I thought Bluebird moved to AZ to be with PF so they could fight for gay marriage together.
Eastsidewa
Fantomas: Bobby is not and never been with an "ie" that gets him more reved up than GW. So make calm and call him Bobby.
I'm in Seattle land we've taken to roll our eyes everytime Congressman Coward McDermott speaks. He's a wacko. He's more than a leftie-he really needs to be governor of his own state. Population one - he and him alone. He hasn't supported Boeing, Msft and or Bio-tech. Funny that's where he lives. Okay he keep getting re-elected because local dems are afraid to challenge him. When I see him - I crossed to the other side of street.
Herr Tiggee
I'm trying to decipher Bill W's "sure do y'all upstage bla bla bla uh huh duty." A little illumination would be helpful.
RCKSoniK
QUOTE
Eastsidewa:
He hasn't supported Boeing,
Hmm, Boeing has given up on trying to keep up company morale, they are giving our jobs away to Japan, India, and Russia among other places. We give them 3 billion dollars in tax incentives, plus change our unemployment insurance, agree to build more roads and docks, etc. for em, for 400-1200 at most jobs in the state assembling the 7E7 which probably would have been here anyway, maybe the wacko was on to something. This is what the union people at WTO were getting at, people in India will do the same jobs for a small fraction of what it cost here, and thats not about the state, its about the world economy.

[ December 16, 2003, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Sonix ]
Joe in Philly
Check out the pic -- Saddam shows his true colors
MIB
QUOTE
Joe in Philly:
Check out the pic -- Saddam shows his true colors
biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
George Twins fan
There is a slight resemblence to Joe Torre too!

Can anyone at the Vatican keep their yaps shut. More nonsense from these some dress wearing, child molesting moron regarding an appropriate punishment for Saddam:

QUOTE
The Vatican's Cardinal Renato Martino stressed the Roman Catholic Church's longtime opposition to capital punishment.

He said he felt \"compassion\" for Saddam, despite his crimes, after seeing images of \"this destroyed man\" being \"treated like a cow, having his teeth checked\" by an American military medic.
This is what they are outraged by? rolleyes.gif

[ December 17, 2003, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: George_vikingfan ]
bobby78751
QUOTE
Joe in Philly:
Check out the pic -- Saddam shows his true colors
I love it! Ha-Ha! Damn Yankees!
Jim Allen
From the link Joe provided:
QUOTE
Given the recent Vatican embrace of Saddam, perhaps a Padres hat would be more appropriate
Hee.

I see that the blog Joe linked to has its own version of our beloved PF, goes by the name of Natalie.
Herr Tiggee
Ah, the Vatican. MIA when Jews were being exterminated by Hitler, MIA during the child molestation scandals in the US, but FRONT and CENTER for deploring the tick check and throat probe of a mass murder. Gotta love these clowns!
bobby78751
QUOTE
Jim Allen:
From the link Joe provided:
QUOTE
Given the recent Vatican embrace of Saddam, perhaps a Padres hat would be more appropriate
Hee.

I see that the blog Joe linked to has its own version of our beloved PF, goes by the name of Natalie.
Ah-hah! My suspicions are right...FillyPhan is a woman! Is Natalie a self-loathing, bad-speller, too?

[ December 17, 2003, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: bobby78751 ]
Bill W
The capture of Saddam carries great political capital because, as Jimmy Breslin found out from nearly every visitor to Ground Zero one day, the American Sheeple are bigger igmoramuses than Dubya on the "Sept 11 connection":

QUOTE

\"A couple from Knoxville, Tenn., Elaine and Will, agreed. 'I believe he was in on it on some level,' she said. 'He was around there someplace,' the husband said. Betty Hipp, San Antonio. 'Of course Saddam was responsible.'\"
The Blue States have spoken. MORONS.


QUOTE
AU Tiger in LA:
I'm trying to decipher Bill W's \"sure do y'all upstage bla bla bla uh huh duty.\"
Scroll to the top of this page for Son of Rain Man.

[ December 17, 2003, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: Bill W ]
Joe in Philly
Another fun Saddam pic
Jim Allen
That was inevitable, wasn't it?
JC
Speaking of inevitable

Atta-Saddam link probably fake
fantomas
QUOTE
JC:
Speaking of inevitable

Atta-Saddam link probably fake
Say it ain't so, Joe! Our own Wilhelm1865 was touting the links--f*ck the WMDs, Atta and Saddam and Abu Nidal were getting their terrorism on!
fantomas
QUOTE
William1865:
Lost in the hoopla of Saddam's capture was this intriguing story from the London Telegraph. Hope this link works, you might have to register.
More fake(d) documents...was this the Iraqi secret service or someone else trying to once again embarrass W and Rummy and Co?
PhillyFan
Weren't ya'all the ones touting the Euro press as being fair and objective as compared to ours? or just when their view fits your view....

Carry on and......
Tally ho
MIB
Just what the hell did MSNBC do to their "new" web site. It sucks! :mad:
William1865
Believe it or not, I didn't know for a fact the documents were fake when I posted that link. Yall act as though I personally forged the docs, delivered them to the Telegraph and started this whole brouhaha. I posted a link to a story. If the story is inaccurate, then I will agree that the story is inaccurate, as it seems to be.
fantomas
No, I know you didn't know the story was fake, so I'll concede you that. But William Safire and people from the WEEKLY STANDARD keep trying to resuscitate this tale, rather than conceding that at best, it was inflated like the WMDs, and at worst, just an outright lie. The fact that as Bill W posted, far too many people accept it as gospel basically renders the issue moot--which is sad, because it shows how easy it is to gull Americans, especially with something so serious. Saddam was a murderous creep--we knew this in 1991, and W could have made that argument and very likely still gotten his war. But he didn't.
copman
QUOTE
fantomas:
Copman, come off it, please!
WELL WELL! You really told me off! eek! biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
MIB
QUOTE
MIB:
QUOTE
fantomas:
Hell, it was the US ARMED FORCES--OUR ARMY, BABY!!!--that got him, with CIA and Iraqi help. So give the credit where it's due--to our fighting men and women!
I never really cared much about TIME's Man of the Year, but since we're discussing it, how about \"The American Soldier\" as this year's winner? In light of the Saddam capture, all the deaths and risks they've taken this year, etc., I think it wouldn't be a bad choice.

Just my $.02
The above was posted by me on December 14, 2003.

Never again doubt my powers of prognostication. Strong am I with the Force:

TIME Announces its 2003 Person of the Year

QUOTE

Dec 21, 12:42 PM (ET)

By SARA KUGLER

NEW YORK (AP) - The American soldier, who bears the duty of \"living with and dying for a country's most fateful decisions,\" was named Sunday as Time magazine's Person of the Year.

The choice represents the 1.4 million men and women who make up the U.S. military, which led the invasion of Iraq nine months ago and a week ago captured deposed leader Saddam Hussein.

About 130,000 U.S. troops remain in Iraq, with others deployed in Afghanistan, South Korea and elsewhere.

The troops were singled out as the top newsmakers of the year because \"the very messy aftermath of the war made it clear that the mission had changed, that the mission had not been completed and that this would be a story that would be with us for months, if not years, to come,\" Time Managing Editor Jim Kelly said.


The selection echoes 1950, the year the Korean War began, when the magazine's editors picked the American GI for the cover, writing that \"it was not a role the American had sought, either as an individual or as a nation. The U.S. fighting-man was not civilization's crusader, but destiny's draftee.\"

The 2003 Person of the Year package, on newsstands Monday, features an artillery survey unit from the 1st Armored Division to tell the story of the American soldier.
twin58
Photos of the event

A few more
Bill W
Perhaps Arundhati Roy said it best:

QUOTE
To applaud the US Army's capture of Saddam Hussein, and therefore in retrospect justify its invasion and occupation of Iraq, is like deifying Jack the Ripper for disemboweling the Boston Strangler. And that after a quarter-century partnership in which the Ripping and Strangling was a joint enterprise. It's an in-house quarrel. They're business partners who fell out over a dirty deal. Jack's the CEO.
bobby78751
This soldier says that what the public knows about Saddam's capture is a lie. Why am I not surprised?
The Stroy
fantomas
QUOTE
bobby78751:
This soldier says that what the public knows about Saddam's capture is a lie. Why am I not surprised?
The Stroy
Oh bobby, come on, now, you don't believe the W Unltd. crowd have ever told the truth, do you? They lied and then lied some more about the WMDs, at times so blatantly I'm sure they wanted to laugh out loud. They lied about the links between Saddam and Who?-sama bin Laden, and lied some more to deny links between bin Laden and the W crowd. They lied about the Jessica Lynch rescue. They lied about the pulling down of the Saddam statue. They lied about how capturing Saddam and killing Uday and Qusay would turn things around. Weren't we "turning the corner" then, and then about 10 or 20 more times? They've lied repeatedly about how many Iraqi troops were trained. They've lied about how many US soldiers were injured, and how many Iraqis have died. They've lied about what they ordered our military to do in Fallujah. They've lied about the extent of the torture, who was involved, how they signed off on it. They've lied and railroaded poor soldiers and officers who were following orders. They've lied about how they're treating our veterans. They've been lying about capturing Zarqawi's lieutenants. They've lied about how they've been working to properly arm the troops. They've lied about almost EVERYTHING. If they could have lied about the pro-Iranian Shi'ites not winning, they would have. So why ON EARTH would they tell the truth about the capture of Saddam? It's all a movie anyway...that ends in the Rapture, don't forget. eek!

[ March 09, 2005, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]
gmginsfo
Hmmm ... why do I doubt this ex-GI's credibility? Could it be that there is no material variance between his story and the official report? Maybe it's because he was interviewed in Lebanon, which begs the quesion "what's he doing there?" Sounds like someone has a scimitar to grind. Or maybe I'm just one to "question authority."

Speaking of inconsistencies, I'll stick with FT's original 12-14-03 take on the capture, not his lately-turned rapture:

"This is dramatic! I always thought he was alive. I agree with ung too that it's best he was caught alive, because the US can get AS MUCH INFO as possible out of him. Such as where those WMDs are, where his deputies are, etc. But it does seem he was fairly isolated--just a pathetic creature. Will the Iraqis kill him as soon as they get his hands on him?"

------------------------------

"M1011, I hear you, but it doesn't matter; the media and most people are going to think of this--at least for a while--just like the "Mission Accomplished" moment, as perhaps the end of the problems in Iraq. It is a very significant and important event--and catching him ALIVE, rather than dead, is key. It's also telling that he was too cowardly to 1) have blown his brains out or 2) to have had bombs strapped to him to detonate. My question is: whose business is he going to put out there now that he's survived? And will the Iraqi people allow him to be tried civilly and criminally, or will they take vengence into their hands and string him up like Ceaucescu and Mussolini?"

--------------------------------

"Bremer??? Hell, it was the US ARMED FORCES--OUR ARMY, BABY!!!--that got him, with CIA and Iraqi help. So give the credit where it's due--to our fighting men and women!

Foreign nations are elated! Well, the European ones--not the Arab ones. France even spoke positively about the turn of events. How could they not?"
Erik G
Oil the Big Black lie. The other dark meat.

So I thought about it once. I realized that I have absolutely no idea of what Saddam Hussein really looks like. So back when they found him in an appropriately labelled "snake pit" or something, I just thought yeah right. I will have to take their word for it that it is not one of his stunt doubles.

My muslim friends always quipped, "Your government is spending how much to catch one man?", with a grin. Cuz we got it. It didn't matter if it was Ladin or Hussein or Pinoche for that matter. It aint about justice. It is about transfer of wealth from the public trust to the private pockets of our beautiful transnational corporations. You can torment your masses as long as you want. Just make sure that your sponsoring corporations are okay with it. Shooting workers at a GM plant in Mexico for trying to unionize, would be such an example.
CPT_Doom
QUOTE
Hmmm ... why do I doubt this ex-GI's credibility? Could it be that there is no material variance between his story and the official report? Maybe it's because he was interviewed in Lebanon, which begs the quesion \"what's he doing there?\" Sounds like someone has a scimitar to grind. Or maybe I'm just one to \"question authority.\"
At this point, who knows what to think. The administration has lied, exaggerated, and "spun" so much during its entire tenure that it is actually difficult to know what, really, is the truth any more. They lied about WMDs, lied about the rescue of Jessie Lynch, staged the destruction of the statue of Saddam, spun the reasons for the invasion and the success of the war, hidden the number of Iraqi casualties, manipulated the terror warning system to suit their political needs, etc.

It is sort of like the Boy Who Cried Wolf - who's to know if this time they are telling the truth? I'm not saying I believe this story, but if Rumsfeld or Rice or Bush told me it was raining out, I would not only look out a window, I'd call the weather service just to make sure I wasn't being led on.

And I really have to believe that in the long run it will hurt the administration, if only in the historical record. I was recently in a corporate training seminar, on leadership, and we were discussing what makes a good leader. The example of Rudy Guilliani on 9/11 came up (whatever you think of the rest of his tenure, and I am not necessarily a fan, on that day he exemplified the best characteristics of a leader). I noted that one of his strengths that day was the willingness to be honest and forthright with his citizens, even when that meant acknowledging what he and the city leadership did not know.

Contrast that to the Spanish government after the Madrid bombings, where the lies and obfuscations actually cost them the resultant elections, and the difference is clear. I think we are already seeing the unwillingness to believe Bush in the Social Security debate currently happening.
kalabro
QUOTE
At this point, who knows what to think. The administration has lied, exaggerated, and \"spun\" so much during its entire tenure that it is actually difficult to know what, really, is the truth any more. They lied about WMDs, lied about the rescue of Jessie Lynch, staged the destruction of the statue of Saddam, spun the reasons for the invasion and the success of the war, hidden the number of Iraqi casualties, manipulated the terror warning system to suit their political needs, etc.
And that's not enough for impeachment?
William1865
I suspect Jeff Gannon probably had something to do with all of this.
CPT_Doom
QUOTE
I suspect Jeff Gannon probably had something to do with all of this.
Although we do not know how much misinformation, political mud or plagerized stories moved through the ficticious \"Talon News,\" certainly the Bush administrations myriad methods of media manipulation are a partial cause of distrust for our leadership. As it turns out, it appears the media manipulation is not restricted to the federal level of the GOP, either.

QUOTE
A week after Democratic legislators faulted Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger for using taxpayer money to produce \"propaganda\" in the form of a mock news video, the administration on Wednesday acknowledged making several others to advance its policies.

A state senator intends to question officials today about the funding and distribution of the videos.

Initially, legislators focused on one tape extolling an administration proposal to end mandatory lunch breaks for hourly workers. But additional videos have surfaced in which the administration is promoting a cut in the number of nurses required on duty in hospitals, pay for teachers based on merit rather than seniority and a more stringent tenure track.
Aides Concede More Mock News Videos

It's good to see a moderate Republican firmly in favor of ending those communist ideas like lunch breaks and adequate nursing levels.
fantomas
QUOTE
gmginsfo:

Speaking of inconsistencies, I'll stick with FT's original 12-14-03 take on the capture, not his lately-turned rapture:
Yes, I was enthusiastic that day. Yes, I was willing to give W Unl(iar)td. some credit. Yes, I was glad they caught Saddam. Yes, I bought their scenario. But as I stated in my post, they have LIED ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE, everything. The White House has ZERO credibility. And I think before you start crowing about how happy Europe is, think again. France is trying to mend fences; they've got vin et fromage to sell, while the rest of Europe's leaders and citizenry (other than lap dog Blair) are waiting to see how things turn out. In Saudi Arabia, not only did women not vote, but the vote was for offices that will not threaten the monarchy's power; in Egypt, Mubarak's chief opponent is still IN JAIL; in Lebanon, Hezbollah's one day rally dwarfed the opposition, and now Syria's puppet is back in office; in Iran, the mullahs have threatened to punish the US and Europe with oil problems and are racing to get their bomb set up; in Afghanistan (in Asia, really), warlords control most of the country and the Taliban is regrouping; etc.

Now, I DO wish that most of these countries would go the way of Turkey, at the very least. Lebanon for a week appeared to be a bright spot, as did Egypt. But the reality is a bit different. If things do turn around, then W may be able to claim some credit. But prematurely claiming things is what this administration has been about, from "Mission Accomplished" on to the "cutting the deficit" to everything else. Zero credibility--not just with me, but with most of the world.
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