Full Version: Terri Schiavo - life (if you can call it that) or death?
this family just needs to let go already.
One of the Reps (was it Wasserman?) last night said that then-Gov. Bush signed into law a Bill that stated medical professionals can remove life support (even against the wishes of the patient's family) if the eventual result of the patient's current condition is death. Did anyone else see this? Oh, the hypocrisy!!!!!
What's even more ironic is I'm willing to bet that the same "representatives" that voted to slash medicaid spending are the same people that voted to try to keep Terri alive.
So much for the homosexual agenda or "liberal" judges tearing up the "cornerstone of society"! The Republican controlled Congress along with Bush have just circumvented honoring your spouses final wishes with what they feel is in you and your spouses interest. Not only are their actions unconstitutional but they further blur the line between government intrusion into our personal rights, responsibilities and freedoms. If you aren't appalled you aren't paying attention! Tell the President and Congress to work on the issues that will make a difference in the life of all Americans like the war on terror and in Iraq, and the record deficit! The sad fact is this is no longer about Terri, it's about the Republicans agenda!
So much for the homosexual agenda or "liberal" judges tearing up the "cornerstone of society"! The Republican controlled Congress along with Bush have just circumvented honoring your spouses final wishes with what they feel is in you and your spouses interest. Not only are their actions unconstitutional but they further blur the line between government intrusion into our personal rights, responsibilities and freedoms. If you aren't appalled you aren't paying attention! Tell the President and Congress to work on the issues that will make a difference in the life of all Americans like the war on terror and in Iraq, and the record deficit! The sad fact is this is no longer about Terri, it's about the Republicans agenda!
Yep, W signed a bill in Texas allowing hospitals to pull the plug (OH THE HYPOCRISY)!
Texas Futile Care Law
Also, remember that W didn't rush back from his vacation when he received those memos that Osama bin Laden was going to strike in the USA (OH THE HYPOCRISY)!
Then, the GOP is circulating talking points to use this for political purposes (OH THE HYPOCRISY)!
GOP Talking Points
From Digby
Texas Futile Care Law
Also, remember that W didn't rush back from his vacation when he received those memos that Osama bin Laden was going to strike in the USA (OH THE HYPOCRISY)!
Then, the GOP is circulating talking points to use this for political purposes (OH THE HYPOCRISY)!
GOP Talking Points
From Digby
QUOTE
By now most people who read liberal blogs are aware that George W. Bush signed a law in Texas that expressly gave hospitals the right to remove life support if the patient could not pay and there was no hope of revival, regardless of the patient's family's wishes. It is called the Texas Futile Care Law. Under this law, a baby was removed from life support against his mother's wishes in Texas just this week. A 68 year old man was given a temporary reprieve by the Texas courts just yesterday.
Those of us who read liberal blogs are also aware that Republicans have voted en masse to pull the plug (no pun intended) on medicaid funding that pays for the kind of care that someone like Terry Schiavo and many others who are not so severely brain damaged need all across this country.
Those of us who read liberal blogs also understand that that the tort reform that is being contemplated by the Republican congress would preclude malpractice claims like that which has paid for Terry Schiavo's care thus far.
Those of us who read liberal blogs are aware that the bankruptcy bill will make it even more difficult for families who suffer a catastrophic illness like Terry Schiavo's because they will not be able to declare chapter 7 bankruptcy and get a fresh start when the gargantuan medical bills become overwhelming.
And those of us who read liberal blogs also know that this grandstanding by the congress is a purely political move designed to appease the religious right and that the legal maneuverings being employed would be anathema to any true small government conservative.
Those who don't read liberal blogs, on the other hand, are seeing a spectacle on television in which the news anchors repeatedly say that the congress is \"stepping in to save Terry Schiavo\" mimicking the unctuous words of Tom Delay as they grovel and leer at the family and nod sympathetically at the sanctimonious phonies who are using this issue for their political gain.
This is why we cannot trust the mainstream media. Most people get their news from television. And television is presenting this issue as a round the clock one dimensional soap opera pitting the \"family\", the congress and the church against this woman's husband and the judicial system that upheld Terry Schiavo's right and explicit request that she be allowed to die if extraordinary means were required to keep her alive. The ghoulish infotainment industry is making a killing by acceding once again to trumped up right wing sensationalism.
Those of us who read liberal blogs are also aware that Republicans have voted en masse to pull the plug (no pun intended) on medicaid funding that pays for the kind of care that someone like Terry Schiavo and many others who are not so severely brain damaged need all across this country.
Those of us who read liberal blogs also understand that that the tort reform that is being contemplated by the Republican congress would preclude malpractice claims like that which has paid for Terry Schiavo's care thus far.
Those of us who read liberal blogs are aware that the bankruptcy bill will make it even more difficult for families who suffer a catastrophic illness like Terry Schiavo's because they will not be able to declare chapter 7 bankruptcy and get a fresh start when the gargantuan medical bills become overwhelming.
And those of us who read liberal blogs also know that this grandstanding by the congress is a purely political move designed to appease the religious right and that the legal maneuverings being employed would be anathema to any true small government conservative.
Those who don't read liberal blogs, on the other hand, are seeing a spectacle on television in which the news anchors repeatedly say that the congress is \"stepping in to save Terry Schiavo\" mimicking the unctuous words of Tom Delay as they grovel and leer at the family and nod sympathetically at the sanctimonious phonies who are using this issue for their political gain.
This is why we cannot trust the mainstream media. Most people get their news from television. And television is presenting this issue as a round the clock one dimensional soap opera pitting the \"family\", the congress and the church against this woman's husband and the judicial system that upheld Terry Schiavo's right and explicit request that she be allowed to die if extraordinary means were required to keep her alive. The ghoulish infotainment industry is making a killing by acceding once again to trumped up right wing sensationalism.
Has anyone else noticed the irony of Conservative Christisn's position on Ms.Schiavo scenerio. For over a year we have been hearing of the importance of keeping the sanctity of a marriage between a man and a woman. Now, they are attempting to breach such sanctity by any menas possible. So, which is it?
QUOTE
gmginsfo:
I'm not the only conservative or GOPer who finds the meddlings of Congress, the FL state legislature and others outside the immediate families way out of line; this morning's pre-hoops news shows were all over the conservatives' disgust with it. The twin spectacles of Congress rushing to \"act\" - best understood in the dramatic sense - on this and the baseball issue are especially aggravating given that there are so many other REAL problems that need addressing, but somehow always escape getting the attention they deserve.
So when does enough become enough for you? This issue makes me physically ill. The pious self-righteousness of these fanatics is sickening. Your party has sold its soul to the Devil a/k/a the "Religious" Right. But I forgot--you like the tax cuts so everything works out in the end.
I'm not the only conservative or GOPer who finds the meddlings of Congress, the FL state legislature and others outside the immediate families way out of line; this morning's pre-hoops news shows were all over the conservatives' disgust with it. The twin spectacles of Congress rushing to \"act\" - best understood in the dramatic sense - on this and the baseball issue are especially aggravating given that there are so many other REAL problems that need addressing, but somehow always escape getting the attention they deserve.
Wrong again, KWG, just as you'll continue to be wrong every time you focus on cliches and look for conflict instead of common ground. My positions are well known and are hardly limited to tax cuts, most of which don't even affect me. Suffice to say enough was enough for me as a Demo a decade ago, and there's still plenty of room for "working within" the GOP. If you and its other robot critics bothered to open your oh-so-tolerant minds and learn the facts behind my belief, you'd understand that. Whether you ever do or not is your "issue;" many others and I have chosen to "move on" and leave the rest of you stuck snarling in your gratuitous barbs behind.
QUOTE
gmginsfo:
there's still plenty of room for \"working within\" the GOP.
Keep working--it's going swimmingly so far. there's still plenty of room for \"working within\" the GOP.
What are the victories so far?
QUOTE
gmginsfo:
I'm not the only conservative or GOPer who finds the meddlings of Congress, the FL state legislature and others outside the immediate families way out of line; this morning's pre-hoops news shows were all over the conservatives' disgust with it. The twin spectacles of Congress rushing to \"act\" - best understood in the dramatic sense - on this and the baseball issue are especially aggravating given that there are so many other REAL problems that need addressing, but somehow always escape getting the attention they deserve.
The legal questions surrounding Congressional jurisdiction - and the whole issue of whether there's state action in any of this - are going to be interesting to watch as they play out. I think Congress is about to get its overreaching hand slapped big time. And with DeLay leading the charge, maybe he'll be the one knocked hardest off his high horse - and back to the bugs where he belongs.
I don't really think you can say "Congress rushing to act" when you look at the real numbers of those not voting:I'm not the only conservative or GOPer who finds the meddlings of Congress, the FL state legislature and others outside the immediate families way out of line; this morning's pre-hoops news shows were all over the conservatives' disgust with it. The twin spectacles of Congress rushing to \"act\" - best understood in the dramatic sense - on this and the baseball issue are especially aggravating given that there are so many other REAL problems that need addressing, but somehow always escape getting the attention they deserve.
The legal questions surrounding Congressional jurisdiction - and the whole issue of whether there's state action in any of this - are going to be interesting to watch as they play out. I think Congress is about to get its overreaching hand slapped big time. And with DeLay leading the charge, maybe he'll be the one knocked hardest off his high horse - and back to the bugs where he belongs.
Dems: 102
Repubs: 71
Indep: 1
For 174 members, there was no rush to vote at all.
Ever the contrarian, eh, Boobette? First, you're wrong on the numbers; a majority of Congress literally took flight to return to DC. And then you misread - again! - my post, which specifically emphasized "act" in its dramatic sense. Isn't learning to read part of the education of a journalist these days?
QUOTE
gmginsfo:
Ever the contrarian, eh, Boobette? First, you're wrong on the numbers; a majority of Congress literally took flight to return to DC. And then you misread - again! - my post, which specifically emphasized \"act\" in its dramatic sense. Isn't learning to read part of the education of a journalist these days?
I AM NOT WRONG ON THE NUMBERS! I addition to your other obvious malfunctions, you also cannot count.
Ever the contrarian, eh, Boobette? First, you're wrong on the numbers; a majority of Congress literally took flight to return to DC. And then you misread - again! - my post, which specifically emphasized \"act\" in its dramatic sense. Isn't learning to read part of the education of a journalist these days?
QUOTE
bobby78751:
174 <* 261, ergo, a majority of Congress voted one way or the other, and it was only a minority who made "no rush to vote at all." Yes, you copied the numbers correctly, but completely misinterpreted them. But hey, it's a pattern!QUOTE
gmginsfo:
Ever the contrarian, eh, Boobette? First, you're wrong on the numbers; a majority of Congress literally took flight to return to DC. And then you misread - again! - my post, which specifically emphasized \"act\" in its dramatic sense. Isn't learning to read part of the education of a journalist these days?
I AM NOT WRONG ON THE NUMBERS! I addition to your other obvious malfunctions, you also cannot count. Ever the contrarian, eh, Boobette? First, you're wrong on the numbers; a majority of Congress literally took flight to return to DC. And then you misread - again! - my post, which specifically emphasized \"act\" in its dramatic sense. Isn't learning to read part of the education of a journalist these days?
_____
*This means "less than."
QUOTE
gmginsfo:
_____
*This means \"less than.\"
YOU were wrong in this statement: "First, you're wrong on the numbers". I never said a majority DID NOT vote. Where did I say that? That's right, I DIDN'T! You are the one misinterpreting facts, bozo. QUOTE
bobby78751:
174 <* 261, ergo, a majority of Congress voted one way or the other, and it was only a minority who made \"no rush to vote at all.\" Yes, you copied the numbers correctly, but completely misinterpreted them. But hey, it's a pattern!QUOTE
gmginsfo:
Ever the contrarian, eh, Boobette? First, you're wrong on the numbers; a majority of Congress literally took flight to return to DC. And then you misread - again! - my post, which specifically emphasized \"act\" in its dramatic sense. Isn't learning to read part of the education of a journalist these days?
I AM NOT WRONG ON THE NUMBERS! I addition to your other obvious malfunctions, you also cannot count. Ever the contrarian, eh, Boobette? First, you're wrong on the numbers; a majority of Congress literally took flight to return to DC. And then you misread - again! - my post, which specifically emphasized \"act\" in its dramatic sense. Isn't learning to read part of the education of a journalist these days?
_____
*This means \"less than.\"
Gee, you'd think the minority leader (Pelosi) would "rush" right back, wouldn't you? I guess some didn't feel the need or want to "rush" back and stand up for a side on this very important states rights issue.
As for explaining what "<" means, I've got a sign for ya', but you can't see it thru the Internet.
[ March 21, 2005, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: bobby78751 ]
Two more posts, gm, but yet I don't see you listing the victories from working within. I guess you're busy working within, huh?
How 'bout this for a new GOP slogan--"Intrusion wins!"
How 'bout this for a new GOP slogan--"Intrusion wins!"
QUOTE
bobby78751:
YOU were wrong in this statement: \"First, you're wrong on the numbers\". I never said a majority DID NOT vote. Where did I say that? That's right, I DIDN'T! You are the one misinterpreting facts, bozo.
Gee, you'd think the minority leader (Pelosi) would \"rush\" right back, wouldn't you? I guess some didn't feel the need or want to \"rush\" back and stand up for a side on this very important states rights issue.
As for explaining what \"<\" means, I've got a sign for ya', but you can't see it thru the Internet.
That wouldn't be "The Sign of the Cross," would it now? No, Boob, you didn't say that outright; you implied it with your claim that one couldn't say Congress rushed to act. A clear majority in Congress did "rush to act." In your zeal to contest, you completely lost sight of that.YOU were wrong in this statement: \"First, you're wrong on the numbers\". I never said a majority DID NOT vote. Where did I say that? That's right, I DIDN'T! You are the one misinterpreting facts, bozo.
Gee, you'd think the minority leader (Pelosi) would \"rush\" right back, wouldn't you? I guess some didn't feel the need or want to \"rush\" back and stand up for a side on this very important states rights issue.
As for explaining what \"<\" means, I've got a sign for ya', but you can't see it thru the Internet.
And the third time won't charm you either KWG. We've been over this time and again. The pattern is you and your cohorts ask for examples, I supply them and then you deride them. I've got better things to do than argue with brick walls. Time to go to work and "work from within" - however much it galls you. As your man Dan Rather would have it, "Courage."
Isnt it a beautiful black and white world we live in?
QUOTE
gmginsfo:
You just can't be wrong, can you? Typical short-sighted cut-taxes-and-spend idiot Republican. Why do I bother? I'm finished with you.
QUOTE
bobby78751:
YOU were wrong in this statement: \"First, you're wrong on the numbers\". I never said a majority DID NOT vote. Where did I say that? That's right, I DIDN'T! You are the one misinterpreting facts, bozo.
Gee, you'd think the minority leader (Pelosi) would \"rush\" right back, wouldn't you? I guess some didn't feel the need or want to \"rush\" back and stand up for a side on this very important states rights issue.
As for explaining what \"<\" means, I've got a sign for ya', but you can't see it thru the Internet.
That wouldn't be \"The Sign of the Cross,\" would it now? No, Boob, you didn't say that outright; you implied it with your claim that one couldn't say Congress rushed to act. A clear majority in Congress did \"rush to act.\" In your zeal to contest, you completely lost sight of that.YOU were wrong in this statement: \"First, you're wrong on the numbers\". I never said a majority DID NOT vote. Where did I say that? That's right, I DIDN'T! You are the one misinterpreting facts, bozo.
Gee, you'd think the minority leader (Pelosi) would \"rush\" right back, wouldn't you? I guess some didn't feel the need or want to \"rush\" back and stand up for a side on this very important states rights issue.
As for explaining what \"<\" means, I've got a sign for ya', but you can't see it thru the Internet.
QUOTE
Kenny:
Isnt it a beautiful black and white world we live in?
Seems like red and blue would be more appropriate.
Isnt it a beautiful black and white world we live in?
"Boob"? "Bozo"? How many times to we have to warn people: NO PERSONAL ATTACKS!!! Period. We warned someone about this last week and will be more aggressive. You can argue your points all you want, but stop the name calling. :mad:
QUOTE
Jim at Outsports:
\"Boob\"? \"Bozo\"? How many times to we have to warn people: NO PERSONAL ATTACKS!!! Period. We warned someone about this last week and will be more aggressive. You can argue your points all you want, but stop the name calling. :mad:
He started it. \"Boob\"? \"Bozo\"? How many times to we have to warn people: NO PERSONAL ATTACKS!!! Period. We warned someone about this last week and will be more aggressive. You can argue your points all you want, but stop the name calling. :mad:
Her family could do a lot of good if they acknowledge that their daughter is a vegetable. Hate to be crass but they could carve her up and, assuming she didn't do too much damage to herself with her eating disorder (which caused the heart attack in the first place), her organs could give life to other people.
But, apparently they prefer to be selfish, have their heads in the sand, wasteful and vindictive.
Every hour of every day -- decent, sane people make life or death decisions about their loved ones without the drama this dysfunctional clan has fostered. Their 15 minutes of fame is getting old - real quick!
But, apparently they prefer to be selfish, have their heads in the sand, wasteful and vindictive.
Every hour of every day -- decent, sane people make life or death decisions about their loved ones without the drama this dysfunctional clan has fostered. Their 15 minutes of fame is getting old - real quick!
QUOTE
bobby78751:
Actually, if someone with a lot of time on his hands would be willing to go back and research the issue of who started what, when, and how, I think they'd find that things first got nasty when Mr. Raze took it upon himself to denigrate some GOPosters about two years ago for having the temerity to note that the gay rugger from SF who died in the 9-11 crash over PA was a Republican. The "debate" went steadily downhill from there and it was the lefties who regularly lowered its tenor. Small wonder it now screams like a soprano!QUOTE
Jim at Outsports:
\"Boob\"? \"Bozo\"? How many times to we have to warn people: NO PERSONAL ATTACKS!!! Period. We warned someone about this last week and will be more aggressive. You can argue your points all you want, but stop the name calling. :mad:
He started it. \"Boob\"? \"Bozo\"? How many times to we have to warn people: NO PERSONAL ATTACKS!!! Period. We warned someone about this last week and will be more aggressive. You can argue your points all you want, but stop the name calling. :mad:
Sorry if I've caused you any grief, Jim, but I'm only giving as good - or bad - as I get.
Tally-ho, moving right along...
Activist judges in Texas have no problem pulling the plug on a baby against the parent's wishes.
Houston newspaper story
Activist judges in Texas have no problem pulling the plug on a baby against the parent's wishes.
Houston newspaper story
QUOTE
gmginsfo:
I've got better things to do than argue with brick walls.
He's way to busy beating his head against the brick wall to argue with it.I've got better things to do than argue with brick walls.
KWG - the reason he wont answer your question is painfully obvious. There are no victories, the "working within" is a total failure.
Beyone some token wins at the county level, he's got nothing.
Here's gmg on Bush, in his own words:
"he's way too lax on border security"
"could be a little better on environmental issues"
(A little ?
)"his ideas on SS aren't focused enough to be going anywhere soon"
"I disagree on his approach towards equal rights for gays"
From his website we know he is:
" A LAW & ORDER LIBERTARIAN with a demonstrated record of FAIR AND EQUAL RIGHTS and STRICT JUSTICE FOR ALL."
Oh, but he supports a president who wants to write gay folks out of the constitution.
He is also strongly pro choice....I forgot, whats the GOP position on that?
gmg - working within is working great!!
Bob Stoops - we consider the Orange Bowl a huge success because the post game meal was YUMMY!
[ March 21, 2005, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: RazorbackTX ]
QUOTE
gmginsfo:
\"Mr. Raze took it upon himself to denigrate some GOPosters about two years ago for having the temerity to note that the gay rugger from SF who died in the 9-11 crash over PA was a Republican.\"
Would you care to back that up?
\"Mr. Raze took it upon himself to denigrate some GOPosters about two years ago for having the temerity to note that the gay rugger from SF who died in the 9-11 crash over PA was a Republican.\"
I am so upset with how this thing is playing out. Its politics pure and simple, and the Repugs. are trying to legislate morality. Interesting on the latest ABC World News Now poll about 63% of those polled agree with the husbands position, and disagree that Congress should be so involved.
From the Baltimore Sun.
QUOTE
With Sen. Mel Martinez, R-Fla., presiding, the compromise Schiavo bill passed on a voice vote in a chamber empty of senators save for Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., and John Warner, R-Va.
That's right. A grand total of three senators were there.
My opinion of Michael Schiavo improved when I saw a re-broadcast of an interview he had with Larry King in 2003, and I think his love for Terri is genuine. I haven't seen any interviews with Terri's parents, but I have no reason to believe their love for Terri is any less genuine than Michael's. It's really unfortunate that this tragedy has become so politically-charged in the United States and is being viewed down there as a battle of 'left vs right' agendas. I am most certainly not a conservative nor even particularly religious, but unlike the rest of you here, I can not support the removal of Terri's feeding tube.
I work in a large facility for severely brain-damaged persons, some of whom are fed and hydrated via gastric (and even naso-gastric) tubes, just like Terri. The idea of removing their tubes and letting them starve to death is unthinkable, not to mention illegal (at least here). I might be more inclined to agree with 'pulling the plug' if Terri was hooked up to a respirator and was experiencing intense pain, or if there was written proof of her wishes, but none of that applies in Terri's case. Even though I understand where Michael is coming from and don't view him as a 'monster', I still believe that Terri's right to life should prevail.
I work in a large facility for severely brain-damaged persons, some of whom are fed and hydrated via gastric (and even naso-gastric) tubes, just like Terri. The idea of removing their tubes and letting them starve to death is unthinkable, not to mention illegal (at least here). I might be more inclined to agree with 'pulling the plug' if Terri was hooked up to a respirator and was experiencing intense pain, or if there was written proof of her wishes, but none of that applies in Terri's case. Even though I understand where Michael is coming from and don't view him as a 'monster', I still believe that Terri's right to life should prevail.
QUOTE
Originally posted by amazin 12:
Ohhhhhhhhhh. Now I understand. I finally understand why Terri's family is such pains-in-the-a$$es about all this. Schindlers? They're Jewish.
I'm surprised this comment seems to have gone un-noticed. Actually, the Schindlers are Catholic, not Jewish, but even if they were, I don't see what that has to do with anything. And what are you suggesting with the '$$$'?
Ohhhhhhhhhh. Now I understand. I finally understand why Terri's family is such pains-in-the-a$$es about all this. Schindlers? They're Jewish.
QUOTE
Marc:
I am most certainly not a conservative nor even particularly religious, but unlike the rest of you here, I can not support the removal of Terri's feeding tube.
That's the whole point, Marc. You shouldn't be asked to support it. It's not your business--or mine, or Congress' or the President's. It's a family matter, and her husband is her immediate family statutorily and judicially in this case. He has stated what her wishes were and they should be respected. We can all sympathize or empathize with her parents' pain, but it's not our issue. You and I, along with Congress, the Florida Legislature, and everybody else should simply butt the hell out. I am most certainly not a conservative nor even particularly religious, but unlike the rest of you here, I can not support the removal of Terri's feeding tube.
I wouldn't dare try to interject my opinion if your family were making such a personal decision, and I would expect that you would give me the same courtesy.
And the process has allowed for her parents' position to be considered by the Florida courts for several years now. This power grab by Congress has turned an already tragic situation into a pathetic political sideshow for the benefit of conversative voters.
The whole thing sickens me.
To find out how your representative voted
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll090.xml
Shockingly I found that my REPUBLICAN rep (who always votes against my wishes) FINALLY voted the way I wanted her to. I wonder if it was that strongly worded email I sent to her on Friday saying I'd be watching how she handled this situation....
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll090.xml
Shockingly I found that my REPUBLICAN rep (who always votes against my wishes) FINALLY voted the way I wanted her to. I wonder if it was that strongly worded email I sent to her on Friday saying I'd be watching how she handled this situation....
QUOTE
twin58:
From the Baltimore Sun.
This is disgusting. Where is MY Party in this decision? Why be a Constitutionalist and fight for States' Rights when you can give up? The Socialist Party is looking better to me every day. AAAUUUGGGHHH! :mad:
From the Baltimore Sun.
QUOTE
With Sen. Mel Martinez, R-Fla., presiding, the compromise Schiavo bill passed on a voice vote in a chamber empty of senators save for Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., and John Warner, R-Va.
That's right. A grand total of three senators were there. QUOTE
RazorbackTX:
(Insert cricket noises here)
QUOTE
gmginsfo:
\"Mr. Raze took it upon himself to denigrate some GOPosters about two years ago for having the temerity to note that the gay rugger from SF who died in the 9-11 crash over PA was a Republican.\"
Would you care to back that up? \"Mr. Raze took it upon himself to denigrate some GOPosters about two years ago for having the temerity to note that the gay rugger from SF who died in the 9-11 crash over PA was a Republican.\"
QUOTE
RazorbackTX:
Like I said, "someone with a lot of time on their hands." You've got easier access to your writings than I do; "You're so smart, YOU figure it out!"* Look in the time frame a month or so after 9-11 for when your flames first starting licking around my door. QUOTE
gmginsfo:
\"Mr. Raze took it upon himself to denigrate some GOPosters about two years ago for having the temerity to note that the gay rugger from SF who died in the 9-11 crash over PA was a Republican.\"
Would you care to back that up? \"Mr. Raze took it upon himself to denigrate some GOPosters about two years ago for having the temerity to note that the gay rugger from SF who died in the 9-11 crash over PA was a Republican.\"
_____
*"Mommie Dearest"
:mad: :mad: Well, behold who one of the Senate sponsors of this bill is: The right-wing value-upholding golden-boy Rick Santorum. Conservatives all across the country should put their arms around this wonderful guy for putting forth such wonderful legislation. :mad: :mad:
QUOTE
gmginsfo:
_____
*\"Mommie Dearest\"
In other words, no, you dont have anything to back it up.QUOTE
RazorbackTX:
Like I said, \"someone with a lot of time on their hands.\" You've got easier access to your writings than I do; \"You're so smart, YOU figure it out!\"* Look in the time frame a month or so after 9-11 for when your flames first starting licking around my door. QUOTE
gmginsfo:
\"Mr. Raze took it upon himself to denigrate some GOPosters about two years ago for having the temerity to note that the gay rugger from SF who died in the 9-11 crash over PA was a Republican.\"
Would you care to back that up? \"Mr. Raze took it upon himself to denigrate some GOPosters about two years ago for having the temerity to note that the gay rugger from SF who died in the 9-11 crash over PA was a Republican.\"
_____
*\"Mommie Dearest\"
By the way, I seem to remember that you predicted you would beat Nancy Pelosi "big time" and that if you didnt you would never post on Outsports again.
If I had "more time on my hands" Id find that post, because Im sure you said that but I dont have the time on my hands at the moment to back it up, but Im sure I remember that so it must be true.
Fer Chrissakes boys, get a life. Seems like your lives revolve around trashing each other ad nauseum on the board. Get over it already.
BTW, I found it very interesting that Senslessbrenner was arguing last night for a Bill on behalf of Terri's family but the big fat idiot could not even say Schiavo correctly. He kept saying it as She-ah-voe. It seems to me that if you are going to fight for something, you'd at least want to get the name said correctly. Just another stupid Republican in Washington.
Please note that I failed to designate anything with an asterisk but since it looks to be the norm on some posts in this thread, I need to use it.*
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* HA! I made you look!
Please note that I failed to designate anything with an asterisk but since it looks to be the norm on some posts in this thread, I need to use it.*
----------
* HA! I made you look!
QUOTE
RazorbackTX:
By the way, I seem to remember that you predicted you would beat Nancy Pelosi \"big time\" and that if you didnt you would never post on Outsports again.
If I had \"more time on my hands\" Id find that post, because Im sure you said that but I dont have the time on my hands at the moment to back it up, but Im sure I remember that so it must be true.
Even for you, that's a "whopper." With cheek. Again, I fall prey to my usual error of giving others more credit than they deserve. Typical - in spite of everything, most Republicans are and remain optimists. By the way, I seem to remember that you predicted you would beat Nancy Pelosi \"big time\" and that if you didnt you would never post on Outsports again.
If I had \"more time on my hands\" Id find that post, because Im sure you said that but I dont have the time on my hands at the moment to back it up, but Im sure I remember that so it must be true.
[quote]Marc:
Ohhhhhhhhhh. Now I understand. I finally understand why Terri's family is such pains-in-the-a$$es about all this. Schindlers? They're Jewish. [/quote]I'm surprised this comment seems to have gone un-noticed. Actually, the Schindlers are Catholic, not Jewish, but even if they were, I don't see what that has to do with anything. And what are you suggesting with the '$$$'? [/QUOTE]
I noted it and have spoken up more than once about anti-Semitic or racist comments on this board, but I thought I'd let someone else respond for a change. I suppose the original poster was unaware that Oskar Schindler of eponymous movie fame was not Jewish, nor was Alma Schindler Mahler Werfel Gropius, the composer and wife of the famous cultural figures (Gustav Mahler, Franz Werfel, Walter Gropius). There may be Jewish Schindlers as well as Catholic and Protestant (and Buddhist, etc.) ones, but what this has to do with this case is beyond me....
Ohhhhhhhhhh. Now I understand. I finally understand why Terri's family is such pains-in-the-a$$es about all this. Schindlers? They're Jewish. [/quote]I'm surprised this comment seems to have gone un-noticed. Actually, the Schindlers are Catholic, not Jewish, but even if they were, I don't see what that has to do with anything. And what are you suggesting with the '$$$'? [/QUOTE]
I noted it and have spoken up more than once about anti-Semitic or racist comments on this board, but I thought I'd let someone else respond for a change. I suppose the original poster was unaware that Oskar Schindler of eponymous movie fame was not Jewish, nor was Alma Schindler Mahler Werfel Gropius, the composer and wife of the famous cultural figures (Gustav Mahler, Franz Werfel, Walter Gropius). There may be Jewish Schindlers as well as Catholic and Protestant (and Buddhist, etc.) ones, but what this has to do with this case is beyond me....
QUOTE
Marc:
Since this is on page one, I missed it on the first morning read-thru. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I've got a pocketful of names I'd like to throw at this guy but I don't want to get banned. :mad: What a hurtful thing to say at someone and you should be ashamed of yourself. :confused:QUOTE
Originally posted by amazin 12:
Ohhhhhhhhhh. Now I understand. I finally understand why Terri's family is such pains-in-the-a$$es about all this. Schindlers? They're Jewish.
I'm surprised this comment seems to have gone un-noticed. Actually, the Schindlers are Catholic, not Jewish, but even if they were, I don't see what that has to do with anything. And what are you suggesting with the '$$$'? Ohhhhhhhhhh. Now I understand. I finally understand why Terri's family is such pains-in-the-a$$es about all this. Schindlers? They're Jewish.
[ March 21, 2005, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: bobby78751 ]
QUOTE
Weaselman:
Fer Chrissakes boys, get a life. Seems like your lives revolve around trashing each other ad nauseum on the board. Get over it already.
Well said - this nonsense is driving people away from the Board.
Fer Chrissakes boys, get a life. Seems like your lives revolve around trashing each other ad nauseum on the board. Get over it already.
QUOTE
mdphl:
We all miss MIB.
QUOTE
Weaselman:
Fer Chrissakes boys, get a life. Seems like your lives revolve around trashing each other ad nauseum on the board. Get over it already.
Well said - this nonsense is driving people away from the Board. Fer Chrissakes boys, get a life. Seems like your lives revolve around trashing each other ad nauseum on the board. Get over it already.
Fantomas, I'm sure it was unintentional, but the way you posted your comment, others might think it was me who made those offensive remarks, when in fact it was Amazin12. To avoid confusion, my response is the part that appears in bold below the quote you have attributed to me.
It appears that one certain person seems intent on agitating everyone, trying to divide up the community rather than expand it..(sounds familiar?) With some of the latest shenanigans that has been performed over the last few months (bogus reporters in the White House, alleged news reports from lobbying groups), maybe the RNC has infiltrated Outsports.....Maybe we should pull down his panties to see if he is , in fact, one of us.
Could there be another "activist judge"?
From CNN:
A federal hearing ends without the judge ruling on whether to reinsert a feeding tube into Terri Schiavo. Details soon.
From CNN:
A federal hearing ends without the judge ruling on whether to reinsert a feeding tube into Terri Schiavo. Details soon.
As the smoke gradually clears and people return to their respective corners, I am going to venture into this fray. I feel for both sides, what a difficult decision. I have been chair of our regional hospital's biomedical ethics committee for years, and this issue, in some form or another, comes up more than you know. A lesson, no matter how young you are, GET A LIVING WILL/MEDICAL POWER OF ATTORNEY/ADVANCED MEDICAL DIRECTIVE!!!
In Virginia, as in most states, if no written assignment of decision making is left, the STATE has a law that says who makes the medical decisions for the incapacitated person, and in my state the first person listed is the SPOUSE. The parents are consulted only if there is no spouse. Of course what that law does to gay relationships is really sad, but that is an issue for another day.
But feeding tubes are tough. They are considered "treatment" and "life sustaining", that can be withdrawn at the request of the medical POA, but some consider it non-medical. But all the courts have determined that the evidence showed Ms. Schiavo wanted not to have life-sustaining procedures, and Mr. Schiavo wants the procedure to stop.
But now both sides are politicizing what should be a tragic and sad private matter.
I have a question that has not been answered in any reports that I have heard. Who is paying for the medical care? I am sure Ms. Schiavo has qualified for medicaid long ago, but noone has mentioned it. Or is Mr. Schiavo responsible under the medical necessities doctrine, which says that a spouse is responsible for the other spouse's medical bills? Or are her parents paying for the care that they want her to have for possibly decades to come?
I am embarrassed that the state legislature got involved in a decision that should be decided by evidence heard by the courts. I am even more embarrassed that Congress would even spend any time on this issue.
My heart goes out to the parents and spouse of Terri Schiavo. Luckily my partner had a living will that allowed me to make the terrible decision to leave him at home and not put him on life support, and luckily his family supported that decision. Death of a spouse is horrible enough, the pain of watching him/her suffer, or exist without hope, would be almost to difficult to bear.
In Virginia, as in most states, if no written assignment of decision making is left, the STATE has a law that says who makes the medical decisions for the incapacitated person, and in my state the first person listed is the SPOUSE. The parents are consulted only if there is no spouse. Of course what that law does to gay relationships is really sad, but that is an issue for another day.
But feeding tubes are tough. They are considered "treatment" and "life sustaining", that can be withdrawn at the request of the medical POA, but some consider it non-medical. But all the courts have determined that the evidence showed Ms. Schiavo wanted not to have life-sustaining procedures, and Mr. Schiavo wants the procedure to stop.
But now both sides are politicizing what should be a tragic and sad private matter.
I have a question that has not been answered in any reports that I have heard. Who is paying for the medical care? I am sure Ms. Schiavo has qualified for medicaid long ago, but noone has mentioned it. Or is Mr. Schiavo responsible under the medical necessities doctrine, which says that a spouse is responsible for the other spouse's medical bills? Or are her parents paying for the care that they want her to have for possibly decades to come?
I am embarrassed that the state legislature got involved in a decision that should be decided by evidence heard by the courts. I am even more embarrassed that Congress would even spend any time on this issue.
My heart goes out to the parents and spouse of Terri Schiavo. Luckily my partner had a living will that allowed me to make the terrible decision to leave him at home and not put him on life support, and luckily his family supported that decision. Death of a spouse is horrible enough, the pain of watching him/her suffer, or exist without hope, would be almost to difficult to bear.
QUOTE
Well said - this nonsense is driving people away from the Board.
In terms of traffic, this is not true. More people are reading the boards than ever. But it seems that on these hot-button issues like this one, people get emotional and can't resist trying to score smackdown points. And this has the effect of making some people post less than before.Sorry for diverting off-topic for a sec, but I was answering a statement made in this thread.
Rob, as for who's paying, Slate has a great explainer.
Who's paying for her care?
Schiavo resides at a nonprofit hospice that has assumed part of the cost of her care. Medicaid pays for the rest. According to this AP story, keeping her alive costs about $80,000 per year, and at least $350,000 of the malpractice settlement awarded to Schiavo and her husband in 1992 has been spent on her care. Florida Medicaid normally offers hospice coverage for those with a life expectancy of no more than six months, but Schiavo has received assistance from the state for the last two years.
[ March 21, 2005, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Jim at Outsports ]
QUOTE
Jim at Outsports:
Sorry for diverting off-topic for a sec, but I was answering a statement made in this thread.
I am also going to stay off topic and respond to this statement. Some of the name calling happening on this board, some of the language being used on this board which reminds me of the school bus in junior high and lastly, some of the out of control egos, are keeping some of us posting less than we used to.QUOTE
Well said - this nonsense is driving people away from the Board.
In terms of traffic, this is not true. More people are reading the boards than ever. But it seems that on these hot-button issues like this one, people get emotional and can't resist trying to score smackdown points. And this has the effect of making some people post less than before.Sorry for diverting off-topic for a sec, but I was answering a statement made in this thread.
Sorry to digress, now you can go back to the original topic...
[ March 21, 2005, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: scottie ]
I would like to welcome member #3000 to the group, but only after the bullets have stopped flying.
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