I don't know how many of you are following this but I have no choice as it's basically happening in my backyard.

Basically, a woman has been on life support (feeding tube) for 15 YEARS, her husband states she had stated she would never want to live like this, her Mom and Dad want to continue the feeding tube. Florida courts have ruled it's the husbands right and obligation to make her medical decisions. Florida (and now national politicians and religious "right to lifers" have jumped on the bandwagon) politicians, including good ole' Jeb have tried to pass laws to override her husbands decision to remove her feeding tube.

What are your thoughts? I think the Republican controlled government is once again WAY overstepping here and getting involved in something that should be a personal decision. So much for the insitution of hetrosexual marriage and all the rules and laws that govern the rights of a husband/wife.

I'm SICK of the goverment intrusion on personal issues not to mention the time and money wasted debating something that they have not place involved with in the first place!

Can't agree more with this statement!!

I have been following the case on and off and can understand some of what both sides are saying/fighting for. Absent a written living-will, it's hard to just take the husband at his word. However my partner had the best idea - why doesn't the husband just sign over all his rights to her parents? He has done all he can to honor her wishes, so if her parents want to take responsibility for her from this point on, he should just let them. They will be the ones that will have to live with their decision!

I really think now it has gotten to the point where it really isn't about Terri Schiavo anymore but a battle between her husband and her parents. They hate each other, and now this fight is about each of them 'winning' and not what is best for Terri!

[ March 18, 2005, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: Di ]

There was a photo this morning of a car with The Ten Commandments on a poster and glued over the image was "Keep Terri Alive". As with most evangelical fundamentalist crap today, that made me sick to see that.

The ONLY good that has come of this (that I can see) is the importance of a living will.

I agree. At this point it seems to be a more about a fight between the parents and the husband then about Terri. However, I strongly believe that if she had indeed stated to her husband that she would never want to live like this then he has a right/obligation to honor that request.

REGARDLESS - if we want to talk about the legalities of MARRIAGE, then HIS wishes should be honored! I'm so angry that this has become a political/religious issue (not to mention all of Floridian tax dollars and politician wasted time spent on this project) that if CNN was to interview this Floridian they would think I was crazy as I'm SO pissed that our resources are being abused and the husbands wishes are being disregarded ALL IN THE NAME OF POLITICS AND RELIGION.

Trust me if you lived here and had to see these religious wackos on the news everyday you'd be a bit over this issue.

I understand, and you have my sympathy! The religious wrong is infiltrating every area and every issue and I'm sick of it too! I have one of them as my state senator, Dick Dumb-torum! :mad:

no offense meant with my word choice above!

The actions of the Florida politicians, not to mention the U.S. House and Senate who are now also trying to meddle in this, are utterly despicable.

Agree with you here Joe. No different that what the White House is also trying to do in the State of Oregon which the voters passed on a couple of years ago. The right to die with dignity for people with life ending illnesses or sicknesess. I guess the White House doesn't like this or think the Oregon voters can think for themselves. Former AG Ashcroft was meddling in this before he left, and now they are trying to overturn this again.

Wow, very ironic that The White House is touting a Culture of Life seeing as how the man in The White House killed hundreds of convicted people without a second thought during his six-year-reign as The King of Texas.

This gets even more odd. Plans are being made to have her appear before Congress...

CNN Story

[ March 18, 2005, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: bobby78751 ]

It will be funny (in an ironic way) when Congress tries to ask her questions and she just lays there. Will they then charge her with contempt?

I will have all of you as my witnesses--if I am ever in a long-term vegetative state with no capacities, please pull the plug. I can't understand why anyone would want to continue to "live" this way. In my opinion, her parents who think they are saving her, are making her live a torturous existance. They say that she might get better, but geezzz, its been 15 years, it would have happened by now.

And from my religious perspective, many right-to-lifers are saying that we're playing God and its immoral for us to let her die. But in my opinion, she was supposed to pass 15 years ago, and we're playing God by using machines to keep her alive. Let her go in peace.

the hypocrisy of the Republican party on issues is laughable it wasn't so serious.

Earlier this month Jeb Bush (FL Gov) wanted the largest cut in Medicaid RX coverage of any state in the nation. Yet he successfully blocked (later found unconstitutional) Terri's husband from removing her feeding tube. Let me get this straight...So he thinks we should discontinue life saving drugs from the poorest of our citizens yet sustain the life of a woman (her parents must be contributing mega $$$ to ther repugs) who has been in a vegetative state for 15 years!

MAKES COMPLETE REPUBLICAN SENSE!

Yet no common sense...

I COMPLETELY AGREE!

This morning after sending all my representatives emails expressing my disguist with the handling of this situation. I had my weekly staff meeting and I was still SO PISSED that I informed everyone in my meeting that if I'm ever in a state similar to this and it goes on beyound 30-60 days remove the tube, unplug the machine and turn out the lights!

Especially if you are already campaigning for President...which of course he says he isn't.

Without going into the debate here, this situation shows the importance of everyone, but particularly LGBT individuals, having planning documents (Will, Living Will, Power of Attorney). If she had a living will, none of this would be happening.

If you don't already have these documents, have them done for you immediately. If you don't know of a local LGBT or LGBT friendly atty., send me a PM and I'll try and locate one for you.

From CNN:

AP: Florida judge temporarily blocks removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube. Details soon.

I am so angry I could spit. I have just gotten off the phone with my Congresswoman, and both Senators. I also called my State Rep and my State Senator to express my outrage at their interjection into this issue.

Party of less intrusive government, my ass!!! Let that poor woman die with dignity. It was her stated wish. :mad:

I agree, not because there's no legitimate issue (I think there is), but because politicians are cynically exploiting the issue and, more to the point, the person at the center of it (the patient) for political gain.

The clincher is the talk of a subpoena (see Bobby's CNN link). Having a person who's not only bedridden but unconscious carted off to the airport and flown to Washington, under penalty of being found "in contempt" of Congress, for some show hearing straight out of The Aviator would be as cruel as anything that anyone has done or tried to do or been accused of doing in this case. It's making the patient a prop in bad reality TV.

So if it was about Parents vs. Hubby before (which, I suspect, is really about money, as many family feuds are) ... now it's about Politicians vs. Those of Us Who Have Lives (For Now at Least). It's even more of a Beltway sideshow than the steroid hearings.

Hey, if Florida or any other state wants to require advance consent (or power of attorney, or proxy or whatever) to turn off food and water, fine. That's one more reason to get the aforementioned living will et al. But they can do that without the feds flying anybody to Washington and parading them before the cameras. :mad:

The point of the subpoena, as I understand it, was to create an intervening event requiring that the order allowing removal of the feeding tube be stayed. I doubt that anyone has any intention of having Mrs. Schiavo flown to Washington, but with the Congress, who really knows.

Is starvation death with dignity? Personally, I don't think so. But, when the equities are balanced in this particular case, I honestly find myself wrestling with that thought.

I believe that when given the choice, dying under one's own terms is considered death with dignity. At this point (15 years after the fact) dignity is probably a non-issue.

Now this from CNN

Here's a message I got from a friend this week on the subject of living wills:

"Yesterday while shopping for a suitable "St. Patrick's Day" card I overheard an interesting conversation between two senior ladies:

A) Have you signed your living will?

No -- what should I put in it?

A) Well....let me tell you what happened when I died. I was in the hospital and went into a coma. And they not only stopped medicines, but they stopped hydrating me. And it was terrible because I knew at one point I had died and they brought me back, but later I heard them saying ending hydration would not be painful, it would feel to the patient like sitting in a very hot Arizona climate....but let me tell you it was terrifying because I felt I was dying of thirst and yet was paralyzed and couldn't say anything. But then I recovered.

So - put in your living will that you want to continue to be hydrated until the very end."

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/...te/11155564.htm

Taxpayers, hospice pay for Schiavo medical care

Medicaid has been paying for Terri Schiavo's medications, and a hospice has provided free care.

BY PHIL LONG

plong@herald.com


Who's paying for Terri Schiavo's care?

Taxpayers -- and a St. Petersburg area hospice, which provides daily care for free.

Money that Schiavo's husband, Michael, received as part of a medical malpractice lawsuit in his wife's case in 1993 is almost gone, said Deborah Bushnell, one of Michael Schiavo's lawyers.

Of the $700,000 payment, only about $50,000 is left, Bushnell said. The rest went to pay for medical care for Schiavo, who has been in a persistent vegetative state for 15 years, and for legal fees in the battle over her fate, she said.

Medicaid, the state and federal program that pays medical costs for the poor and indigent, has been picking up the tab for Schiavo's medications for two years, Bushnell said, while the hospice provides care for free.

HOSPICE

Louise Cleary, spokeswoman for Woodside Hospice, the 72-bed center where Terri Schiavo has been in Pinellas Park, said she could not discuss Schiavo's case, but the average cost of care is about $80,000 a year.

''We are a not-for-profit hospice,'' Cleary said. Although most patients have private insurance or state or federal coverage for the medically indigent, some don't have coverage. ''We never turn a patient away who needs us. Never,'' Cleary said.

LEGAL COSTS

With the money in the fund nearly exhausted, Bushnell said neither she nor attorney George Felos have been paid in more than two years. Throughout the case, she said, she has been paid a total of $80,309 and Felos $358,434. A judge approves all legal costs, she said, adding that Michael Schiavo does not have control over the guardianship fund.

At the hospice, the bulk of Schiavo's expenses are in her daily care provided by the center. She does not require much medicine, Bushnell said. Schiavo is given occasional pain medication, Bushnell said.

CNN is reporting that the tube has been removed. However there will be appeals right up until she dies.

Living Will info state by state

http://www.mindspring.com/~scottr/will.html

Advanced Directives (info and docs) GOOD INFO/DOCUMENTS!

http://www.partnershipforcaring.org/Advance/

This whole thing is really pathetic. I don't think anyone mentioned the man (who doesn't even know anyone involved in this situation) offering the husband $1 million dollars to give the rights to the parents. (He was represented by Gloria Allred, shocker). I mean, buying someone's life is just not right at all. What a hypocrisy, if someone tried to sell their life for $1 million dollars people like Gloria Allred would be saying how pathetic that person is.

The parents and these other fans of keeping her alive have been all over the husband for various things, yet they are no better than putting this woman who has no control over anything in the middle of a media and political circus. They are just as bad as the husband for having a girlfriend and all that crap.


And Republicans, take note over the media. Do you see them attacking the right for doing all this? Nope! What a liberal media.

To the Republican congressmen who want to fight to keep her alive: How about passing stem cell research legislation so there might be some hope of someday giving her an actual quality of life. Until then, butt out.

Amen George!

These are great resources. However, because the validity of documents drafted by LGBT individuals are among the documents most likely to be challenged by family members, I'd strongly recommend using a lawyer to have these documents prepared.

Even if you think your family is incredibly supportive of you and your partner, sickness, money and death brings can bring out things in your family you would have never anticipated. I've seen what everyone thought were incredibly supportive family members kick out someone's partner from the shared house after the partner died.

Get all the lawyers you want; those contracts are unenforceable in Virginia.

Virginia Passes Veto-Proof Ban on Homosexual Civil Unions

Virginia Legislature Passes Ban on Civil Unions

S-u-u-u-r-e the Concerned Women for America won't challenge your contract in court.

There will be no privileges of marriage for you. Not in Virginia. Y'all don't come back now, y'hear?

[ March 19, 2005, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: twin58 ]

I thought about this, and if I were in Michael Schiavo's position I'd have made a counter-offer: $50 million dollars -- payable to various pro-choice and gay-rights groups. Somehow I bet they'd decline to pay for her life then...

Politicians do whatever you can!

If someone can explain to me what handing out subpoenas is going to do, please feel free to enlighten me.

Hmmm, that's not a little skewed.

I had read/heard that they were going to subpeona Terry herself. She'd probably have as much to say as Mark McGwire.

A couple of essential legal points that risk getting lost in all the drama:

In the absence of her written instructions, Terri Schiavo's husband -- not her parents, the Florida legislature, the Florida courts or Governor Bush -- has the right and responsibility to make decisions about her end-of-life care.

The U.S. Congress has no jurisdication in the matter, a fact being overlooked by grandstanding "conservatives" seeking political gain, federalism and state sovereignty be damned.

How convenient. How hypocritical. And how totally shameful of them.

From what I understand, the thought is that if they subpoena Terry Schiavo, that compels the doctors to keep her alive long enough for her to "testify" before Congress. They've suggested it would be contempt of Congress to remove the feeding tube (which would cause her to die and miss the hearing). Of course, this flies in the face of common sense which says that a woman in a vegatative state cannot possibly "testify", but they're trying anything they can to hold off the inevitable.

[ March 18, 2005, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: Weaselman ]

I like what the judge said to the lawyer representing the congressional weasels: "The fact that you -- your committee -- decided to do something today doesn't create an emergency."

Hey! Be careful how you talk about my people. wink

According to Michael Schiavo's attorney, the disgusting act passed for subpoena's for Michael and Terry Schiavo to appear before them, needed unanimous approval. Not one person, Republican or Democrat stood up to say no. Not Hillary, not (here's a surprise) not Kerry, etc. I am not a republican, but the fact not ONE Democrat spoke up, speaks volumes for how the Democratic party has no vision, hope or direction.

I know this is a serious subject, but on a lighter note(and completely kidding so noone get their underoos in a wad)... Pewter, good job for speaking up in the staff meeting, but what surprises me is that noone supported your wishes and pulled the plug at that time as you requested!

Does a medical person know how it's going to be for her without the tube until she dies? Since she is brain damaged, will her body not even know it and not allow her to be in pain or discomfort from starvation?

[ March 19, 2005, 07:03 AM: Message edited by: Merloni26 ]

Having been through a long term care situation with a family member, I can speak from some experience. While the situations are different, some things are the same. My feeling is that when there is some money involved, that opens to the door to all kinds of intrusive, invasive, abrasive and ultimately abusive people.
While the situation between Terry and my family memebr is different as night and day, it was possible that the question of a feeding tube could have come up for my dying family member. The administrator of the nursing home did tell me that if one got put in, it could turn out to be a nasty issue with people and end up in court. In the mean time the family member was losing weight and more weight due to the ravages of his disease. My guess is that we were a few days away from the actual decision of wether or not to put in a feeding tube, when he passed away quite peacfully.My feeling was getting to be that, in that situation, if one does not start something, one does not have to finish something. He weighed 80 pounds when he passed--down from his normal 200 pounds or so. Quite, quite sad.

In Terrys case, I feel very strongly that if there was no money involved, I am absolutely certain that no politican, state legiislature or memebr of Congress would have given Terrys case a second look. I say this because it does seem like perhaps that if there wasnt money to pay the ongoing medical bills, the government would have to pay. Thus it would be a pretty good bet that the governemt would be footing the bill. Consequently no politican would want to touch that issue with a ten foot pole and start a precedent that could ultimately cost billions of dollars.

What Terrys case does point out is the extreme immportance of having a health care power of attorney that spell out quite clearly our wishes of what should and should not be done, under dire circumstances. I also know of case, for extra protection, where the power of attorneys were notarized and the signatures were witneesed. These extra feautures, as such, went a long way to prevent them from being challenged etc. by family memebrs who have various kinds of other motives and intentions.

Today's St Pete Times describes the freak show outside the Woodside Hospice. I'm kind of surprised Tom DeLay didn't show up with an oxygen tube hanging out of his nose.

Check out this article. Terri Schiavo is now considered indigent. The money Mr. Schiavo received in a medical malpractice suit is gone. Her costs are now being covered by Medicaid. The government is already paying.

This whole travesty is being pushed by the usual right-wing scum who want EVERYONE to live by their religious principles. The anti-abortion scumbag Randall Terry is involved in the lobbying of Congress now. They don't remotely give a damn about Terri Schiavo. All they care about is finding another way to push their morality on everyone. They claim that they're against government interfering in people's lives but when people's lives don't line up with their beliefs they have no problem abusing their power to run people's lives.

These people are complete and utter scum. They are liars and hypocrites, beneath contempt and beyond hope that they'll ever learn to sincerely follow the religious principles that they preach.

I fervently hope that every one of them ends up in the same condition as Terri Schiavo for the same length of time.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh. Now I understand. I finally understand why Terri's family is such pains-in-the-a$$es about all this. Schindlers? They're Jewish.

Perhaps he's atoning for his deceitful son, the homosexual with the militant agenda zzzzzzz....

Make sure to suppress pop-up ads before you click on that. Thanks to AMERICAblog for the link.

I'm not the only conservative or GOPer who finds the meddlings of Congress, the FL state legislature and others outside the immediate families way out of line; this morning's pre-hoops news shows were all over the conservatives' disgust with it. The twin spectacles of Congress rushing to "act" - best understood in the dramatic sense - on this and the baseball issue are especially aggravating given that there are so many other REAL problems that need addressing, but somehow always escape getting the attention they deserve.

The legal questions surrounding Congressional jurisdiction - and the whole issue of whether there's state action in any of this - are going to be interesting to watch as they play out. I think Congress is about to get its overreaching hand slapped big time. And with DeLay leading the charge, maybe he'll be the one knocked hardest off his high horse - and back to the bugs where he belongs.

The latest, from the AP: "After Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., gaveled the House into session, Democrats made clear they would not let the bill pass on a voice vote. That meant the need for GOP leaders to gather the required number of lawmakers for a roll call vote."

That means they have to get 218 members to show up in D.C. again. Let's see how many do.

I think some of these Republicans in Congress are thinking this issue is some homerun, which I just don't see it that way. Sure, there are probably a lot of very religious people (on both sides) that feel that Congress is doing the right thing, but I would guess that a majority (perhaps even a majority of Republicans) of people don't. It gets to a point where you start to really get off your base, especially for some of these Republicans who come from moderate states.

Also, I saw on the Tampa newspaper's website a story about how the news keeps showing these few clips of her when she is responding to something, but neglecting to mention/show the hours upon hours of her with a blank stare, even when people are around. And the most recent of those clips you see is from 2001.

261 votes were tallied at 12:45am. Here's how they voted. Kudos to the five Republican representatives who voted to End the Insanity.

[ March 20, 2005, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: redsoxbreath ]

Drudge has a laughably fake mp3 posted of Terri supposedly reacting to having her feeding tube removed. A pathetic effort by the family, in the most Beethoven way...you have to feel bad for everyone close to the situation, but at some point you've just got to let go.

Thank goodness the party in charge believes in:

"States rights"
"Sanctity of Marriage"
and "Keeping the governement of your back"

Bingo, Raze.