Don't forget Poland!
In only 5 short years we have gone from being popular and respected to being shunned and outcast. Yep, uniter not a divider...uniting the world against America! Good job, dummy!
The Link

The world hates America...literally!

Not Poland! They like us. Damn, I almost forgot Indonesia...they love us, too. Two countries out of the entire world!

Bush's response: "Well, two liking us is more than one liking us. Is that right, Unkle Karl, two is still a bigger number than one, right? Anyway, we're not going to discuss this anymore. Next question."

[ June 23, 2005, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: bobby78751 ]

India loves us, weve sent all the jobs there!

I don't believe its really a question of the rest of the world hating you guys down south or your country, but is a reflection of how the rest of the world views your leader and his economic/military/foreign/ social policies. And yes, his administration has squandered the good will and sympathy that existed post 9/11.

[ June 23, 2005, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: swiminbuff ]

Speaking as an American and Texan who has never voted for W as President or Governor, Swimbuff is absolutely right.

Here's yet another reason for the rest of the world to hate us...Karl Rove, the hand inside the Bush sock-puppet, said yesterday that liberals like me would rather "offer therapy" to the 9/11 hijackers than go after terrorists and their supporters. What a jackass! Never mind the fact that Iraq has now become a more fertile terrorist training ground than Afghanistan ever was according to our own CIA. The sheer arrogance of this administration has reached deadly levels that even I didn't think they could achieve. May God help our country!

[ June 24, 2005, 12:40 AM: Message edited by: so fla ref ]

Yep, heard about this big time! Karl Rove is the Howard Dean of the Repuglican party it seems.

If we can get away from the W bashing for a second (and believe me.. I'm certainly NOT a W fan)...

But how can anyone think that China with its myriad blatant human rights abuses, Its absolutely corrupt political system, its blatant crackdown on Tianenmen square that made Kent State look like a sunday picnic, etc etc... How can any sane person think China is better than The US?

Perhaps those people who do say that should live for a year in Fujian, Guangzhou or even Beijing. Let's see if they say the same thing after a year of living in China.

Why do so many people lose perspective in their rush to hyperbole?

Wow, there for a moment, when you were talking about human rights abuses, corrupt political system, and the squashing of freedom of speech, I actually thought you were talking about America! Maybe that's why most of the world hates us.

In the present day context, given that China's invasion of Tibet is but a distant memory, I imagine most people are reacting to the USA's image as an "agressor" nation while China is seen as a 'mind-our-own-business" player on the world stage, their constant saber rattling over Taiwan notwithstanding. Most people in the world really don't care how other governments treat their own people, they care about how other governments treat them.

Abu Graibh and Guantanamo Bay.

The U.S. puts out that it's the greatest country in the world and a role model for others. China does no such thing.

It's all in the hypocrisy.

The US has been billing itself as the gratest nation on earth for over a hundred years. Even as recently as the 60's when segregationist policies still persisted in this country, the people of the "free" world largely concurred. In spite of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, the US has a better human rights record today than it did 50 years ago, in my opinion.

What's changed, I think, is that now the US is perceived as really being the "greatest" nation on earth. The last superpower, the strongest and richest and most arrogant. Iraq showed the world that we could do as we wished, despite considerable objection, and no one could stop us. During the Cold War, weaker nations could try to play the US off the Soviet Union. Many did it with some success. There's no opportunity for that now. The only thing keeping us from going after the Iranians or North Koreans or Syrians or someone else is that we're tied down in Iraq. Everyone must be wondering what we'll do when we finish up with Iraq. Who'll we go after next.

[ June 24, 2005, 08:00 AM: Message edited by: Torgauer ]

I'll choose Iran for Tic-Tac-Toe!

Well said, Ung. "If lovin' US is wrong, I don't wanna be right!" And you too, Torgauer. Our challenge is not to repeat the mistakes ancient Athens did.

China's abuses go far beyond the invasion of Tibet and Tienamin Sq., and continue, although now usually under the corroded aegis of its lap pit bull NKorea. Things are getting better in China, but one of my sisters and her husband are on their way there now to adopt their second Chinese orphan girl. That and the recent internet crackdown say a lot more about a country than any poll does.

So sorry, Bush and America bashers, I'll stand by the USA, Butt Grab, Gitmo, and all. We're not perfect, but we've got the system for making and keeping us better that most other countries, with the exception of a few like Canada and most other former British dominions, just don't. I'll take that cultural tradition over any other anyday.

[ June 24, 2005, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: gmginsfo ]

again.. I have to bring up the thing about seeing things in a bigger light than simply what you see in your own sphere.

What do I mean by that? For you Puschkin, in San Francisco... to be completely ignorant about China's assertion that it is the "Center of the World" (the literal meaning of its name "Jung Guo")and that it is now and has been the greatest nation in the world... I have to wonder why you aren't better informed.

Just cuz you don't hear about it in Cali doesn't mean it doesn't exist. and in San Fran with its large chinese population, you certainly should hear quite often about chinese abuses.

China is even now reneging on promises made about Hong Kong, threatening Taiwan with invasion, ignoring millions of its own citizens dying of AIDS, suppressing news about the extent of human bird-flu infections and SARS, and trying to influence Pakistan and India as well as many other countries. Let's not forget the casual imprisonment of its own citizens for no reason at all.

Believe me, it's unfortunate what happened in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib. It should never happen. but in comparison with the torture the likes of which the chinese, japanese, the nazis did (like ripping off limbs from living people, putting live people in pressure chambers til they explode, beheading children in front of their parents etc etc) what happened in Abu Ghraib pales in comparison.

[ June 24, 2005, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: ung ]

Yeah, three or four or five murders at Abu Graib...no big deal. We torture people but we're not as bad as them. Death at the hands of a captor is death at the hands of a captor and torture is torture...neither should be tolerated or looked upon as something insignificant.

if you read my posts again, you'll see that never did I call the deaths "insignificant" or "no big deal". Those are your words not mine.

again, if you look at things in context instead of in terms of absolutes, the deaths of millions IS more significant than the deaths of (as you say) 4 or 5 or 6.

There's a reason why we have Holocaust Memorials for the 6million+ killed by the Nazis while not having a national memorial for 5 people killed.

But again, to say that the (let's just round it up for your sake) 10 people killed in Abu is equivalent to the literal mountain of skulls produced by Pol Pot is just ridiculous. Tell me. Is a paper cut on your finger the same as slicing off your arm? similiar action. difference of degree.

The deaths of millions started with the deaths of a few. I am in no way shunning the Holocaust at all. Evil has a beginning and it is usually started in small steps and quickly gets out of hand.

So then... are you saying that if left to their own devices, the US government would eventually have eradicated millions of people in death camps?

Or are you just speaking in generalities again?

What prevents things from getting out of hand of course is that the activities are first, exposed, then investigated and perpetrators held accountable for illegal activity as they have been/are being.

so again... you are saying that if there had been no news reports of Abu Ghraib or Gitmo.... then .. the US government would have slaughtered millions of people in death camps. Is that correct? That is your logic.


Let me say something here.

My father came from North Korea. You guys in the US know nothing about real hunger as it exists in North Korea and elsewhere in the world. So when I see overweight americans bellyaching about how they have to go hungry because their food stamps won't buy enough, I have to stifle my reply.

Likewise, the torture and oppression used by North Korea, China etc are of a magnitude far greater than making people listen to Christina Aguilera or pouring water on them. What you guys describe as "unbelievable torture" would not qualify as a useful torture method in the Nazi days, Pol Pot regime etc.

Our torture isnt as bad as their torture.
What a great country! God bless 'Murka.

USA!
USA!

eek! Go a bit more holier than thou, why don'tcha! WTF are you talking about? How far off topic are we taking this thread, really?

Just so you know, I'm not fat...and I pay for my food with my own money.

[ June 24, 2005, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: bobby78751 ]

Exactly. That is the point I was making. Geez.

Being anti-american is à la mode these days. Having a more favourable opinion of China over a country that offers much more freedom to its citizens is irrational. Having some many Americans being vocal about disliking the US doesn't help. You're spreading the bad sentiment.

The Pew survey showed the negative view in Canada is also towards Americans. They view them has greedy, violent and rude.

From the Globe and Mail:

"Canadians' views of American personal attributes are more negative than residents of any other traditional U.S. ally.

While 77 per cent of Canadians surveyed believe Americans are hard-working and 76 per cent believe they're inventive, 62 per cent say Americans are greedy and 64 per cent believe they are violent.

What the Pew institute found particularly remarkable is that 53 per cent of Canadians found Americans to be rude, compared with only 36 per cent of French respondents and 29 per cent of Britons."

Canadians don't lack modesty : "they are utterly convinced of their popularity, with a breathtaking 94 per cent believing Canada is popular with others and only 4 per cent believing it is not liked."

Earlier this month the Canadian ambassador to the US had this advice to Canadians: stop being smug and take the chip off your shoulders.

Americans are offended when Canadians attack them and endlessly moralize about what they should be doing differently, he said Friday.

"In short, a self-righteousness that isn't very flattering," McKenna told The Canadian Press annual dinner, a gathering of journalists and power-brokers.

The world changed dramatically for Americans on Sept. 11, and dealing with the shock and fear of the next attack "trumps all other issues and all other relationships," he said.

"As Canadians, we intellectually acknowledge this reality, but we do not comprehend the full depth of the emotional scarring caused by that extraordinary event."

Psssst...Raze...you think he means us?

[ June 24, 2005, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: bobby78751 ]

I think one of the main reasons people worldwide are disgusted with the US is that we have fallen so far in such a short time period. Our reputation, earned or not, was based on the presumption of a love of human rights and basic liberties that we were sharing with the world. The events of the last few years, particularly the collapse of the rationale for war in Iraq, have really destroyed that reputation.

China is no different than they were at the time of the Tianenamen (sic?) square massacre, but sometimes lack of change seems better than change for the worse.

I don't know a lot of Americans who are vocal about "disliking the US" - I do know a lot of Americans who are vocal about this adminstrations myriad mistakes and want them to get their act together. But not only is freedom of speech guaranteed in this country, for better or for worse, but it is the obligation of all our citizens to be vocal when our core values are being trashed.

No. I never contended that the abuses you've mentioned would have led to the new holocaust. You've confused me with another poster. I think it likely that these undesirable activities would have continued had they not come to light and been investigated, etc.

I thought it interesting in the survey that majorities in most other western countries found Americans to be too religious while those in muslim nations found us not religious enough.

It's also noteworthy that in most European countries the bulk of those viewing America and Americans unfavorably viewed them only "somewhat" unfavorably. Only in muslim countries were they viewed "very" unfavorably by the majority of respondents with unfavorable views.

Right back at ya!

[ June 24, 2005, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: Torgauer ]

You really can't see the point that is in plain sight. Can ya?

You equate water dousing and sleep deprivation with what China and other nations do and then can't see how people can be exasperated by your lack of perspective and logic.

and the food/hunger thing? we call that an analogy. Meaning.... it doesn't exactly apply to you. It is used to show parallelism.
a-n-a-l-o-g-y

[ June 24, 2005, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: ung ]

Ung, thanks. Your last post really made me chortle.

It must be difficult to find oneself in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

[ June 24, 2005, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Munson Man ]

Being anti-american has ice cream on top? :confused:

[ June 24, 2005, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: ung ]

Freedom cream.

I don't want to get into America bashing but saying that you're better than China is not exactly the strongest agrument in your favor guys! I think the poll is more likely to reflect peoples reactions to your leader and his policies than to the US as a nation or to Americans as a people.
America is of course the worlds superpower but it has to realize that its friends and allies don't react well to its officials telling them how to run their own countries.
As one analyst said on PBS if the US has offended its friends and traditinol allies how long will it take for other alliances to be formed. Historically the world hates an imbalance of power and other alliances get formed to balance things out.

This isn't some new sentiment that has developed since these abuses have been publicized over the last year or so.

These countries did not care for Bush from the get go. Before 9/11, but did NOT have a good reputation for travelling overseas and when he did, he usually screwed up somehow (mispronouncing names, shunning common practices of U.S. presidents, telling inappropriate jokes, etc). This got some attention on the late night shows and such, but not mainstream.

I think people around the world just view the Bush administration as a group that sees themselves as better than everyone else and they can do what they want. Sure, the U.S. for the time being is the lone superpower and has been for quite sometime, but this sentiment has not been so common. But Bush came in and pretty much exploited that fact while past Presidents were not so confrontational, in your face, blunt, whatever you want to say for each case.

Overall, the world was rather upset with this administration before 9/11.

Interesting article in the Globe & Mail the other day about how China is becoming a veritable Big Brother state. Like a Las Vegas casino, China has security cameras watching people anywhere and everywhere. In Shanghai alone there are 200,000(!) with plans for 200,000 more. (How many people are needed to monitor 200,000 cameras, I wonder?)

It's always hazardous when I write. I don't know if I'll end up writing something that looks bizarre.

(Did I write Americans like being licked like ice cream?) eek!

To replace à la mode maybe in fashion is acceptable (sounded like a translation trap). How about en vogue. Or popular.