I will start this thread where we can post all thoughts, comments, reactions on tonights second debate.

I'm waiting for ABCnews.com's report later this morning about how the debate went.

I'm extremely curious to see how Bush will perform in tonight's debate, and I'm pretty confident in how Kerry will come off in the town hall format. I'll have to tape it and watch it later, because we have our bowling league tonight.

Did anyone see footage of his campaign speech from yesterday? Not the statement he made at The Whitehouse, but the afternoon speech in PA. I swear to god the man was drunk or high on something. He fumbled around with his words worse than ever, and looked like he couldn't stand up without leaning on the podium. It was billed earlier in the day as a "major policy speech", but it was nothing but a very bad stump speech. Jon Stewart had a field day with the footage last night.

If yesterday's speech is any indication of his next debate performance, I will finally feel really confident that Kerry can win this thing.

Last night on CNN when they were showing his speech from yesterday, they made sure to point out the attendees were all "invited guests".

Wow, they're using only invited guests now? Pre-screening for Bush loyalists wasn't good enough to keep the critics at bay? What's next, Bush and Cheney family members only??

I have mixed feelings about this debate. Bush will almost certainly come across as more folksy than Kerry and, to an extent, people vote on who they'd rather see on their TV screens for the next four years. I don't think they necessarily go for qualifications or intellect (Gore in 2000 is a perfect example of this).

Despite the bad news about Iraq this week, the playing field for the two is not level.

For Kerry to "win" tonight, he has to come across as relaxed and approachable, yet he has to maintain his mastery of the issues, keep Bush on the defensive and not get into some rambling mucky mess when he talks. For Bush to "win" tonight, he simply has to reassure people that the guy they saw in the last debate wasn't really him. The GOP base has already shown their undying loyalty to this guy, so the bar he has to clear is so much lower than Kerry's.

[ October 08, 2004, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: aquaman ]

Wishful thinking, but I would've loved to see Clinton debate Shrub in this sort of format. It would've been brutal.

The big unknown for tonight is what sort of questions the audience asks. Bush & Kerry both are used to the types of questions "insiders"--journalists and other politicians--pose but have very little experience in interacting with actual voters. They can easily be thrown a curve, either by a topic they hadn't expected to come up or in the phrasing of specific questions.

I disagree that the format automatically favors Bush; during the primaries, Kerry did a number of townhall-style sessions and was successful with them.

~Adam

Kerry had many front-porch meetings with people (he even met with people in their homes!), too, and I think that kind of practice is going to send him to victory again tonight. I hope somebody asks the Bushmonkey a math question or holds up a pretzel!

I expect this one to be more cantankerous than the first one based on all the news going on this week. I am confident Kerry will do extremely well. As posted he is strong in town hall formats. I gotta believe that Bush isn't going to be strong. The most important reason, and it showed so strongly last time, is his lack of press conferences. Its pretty clear that he does not like, and is not comfortable in them. Kerry and Theresa were guests on Dr. Phil on Wednesday. They talked mostly about their marriages and raising a "mixed" family. Both Dr. Phil, and his wife Robin, came away very impressed with both, especially as it relates to raising and dealing with a blended family. I am confident Kerry will do very well tonight. Go gettem John!!!

Did Bushmonkey cheat and wear an earpiece in the first debate?

Salon Link

Democratic Underground Link

Just checked CNN's Wolf Blitzers' web question of the day. "Who do you think will benefit the most from the town hall format tonight?"
Shrub-24%
Kerry-76%

Bush is much louder tonight; seems like he's really trying to hick/cowboy it up (read: butch it up) tonight.

Bush is also ending his responses very abruptly. And, he's using the exact same language from the last debate.

Kerry is using the same phrases, but Bush is using the same damn sentences.

Bush's non-verbals are 1001 times better.

Shrub: "There's rumors on the internets."

What an idiot!

I know why Bush underfunds Education. As long as Americans stay stupid, this guy has a chance to win.

Bush is delusional. He has no idea what is going on in the world. Absolutely no clue.

Unbelievable.

Bush bullies Gibson for a "big" 20 second response. What up with that?

Kerry gave a great example to debunk Bush's "we have allies, damn it!" pitch.

Edited to add:
Blink, Bush! BLINK!!!

The other night on Real Time with Bill Maher, the incredibly smug but enormously hot Tucker Carlson said watching Bush speak is like "watching a drunk cross an icy street", or something to that effect.

It's almost more frustrating to watch him try to hold back and adjust.

And, dudes, did his advisors NOT tell him "wrong place, wrong time" is getting really f-ing OLD?

[ October 08, 2004, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: The B Man ]

Shrub on prescription drugs: "It might be from Canada; it might be from a third world."

Did you just see Bush WINK at someone?!?

He winked!

Until the question about Edwards, Kerry has had a loft of powderpuff questions.

And, ah...the first internet plug of the night: "Go to JohnKerry.com ..."

Shrub is coming across to me like he is scolding people. Like Mr. Prez. you are overdoing it big time! Loved the question about aggravation from the woman who traveled and felt alot of bad feelings from others countries towards our Iraq policy. Shrub never really answered it other than to say people love America!!. He is out of touch...stuuter..stammer..

Kerry to Shrub: "Compassionate conservative? Mr. President, you're batting 0 for 2."

Bush is doing well on this debate, not looking quite as flustered. Seems he likes to me a minister.

He is doing better, yes, but he is overdoing it. Big difference.

I've had to endure this fool (Bush League) since he was governor of Texas. I thought he might do a better job in this debate if he had flash cards to refer to, but then i realized that he probably couldn't read 'em.

I'm glad they are discussing domestic issues. But are people so concerned with taxes, raising taxes, paying taxes, blah blah blah. I just don't even notice taxes, except for sales taxes on Madison Avenue which had nothing to do with the country's government.

Shrub: "Is my time up yet? You looked at me like my clock was up."

Huh?

God, I hope his "clock is up."

Bush League's "Clear Skies Initiative" is nothing but a smoke screen, no pun intended. He froze EPA standards on mercury emissions, and I'm glad to see Kerry call his hand on that fabrication.

Line of the night: "Need some wood?"

Oh, George...

"Need some wood?"......too easy.

RE: stem cell research. He can't be serious when he says that he's saving lives given his record on the death penalty.

Oh, there is sooo much to comment on...

1) "I'm not tellin' !" re: Bush on who he'd pick for the Supreme Court.
2) the stem cell debate - VERY INTERESTING!
3) Dred Scott???
4) seems like Bush is getting more questions
5) legislators make law, judges interpret the constitution (e.g., no gay-positive activist judges)

Did he just reference the Dred Scott case?

Is he going to consult George Washington next on how to proceed in Iraq?

Not one question on gay marriage, yet we hear so many times how important it is on voters minds...supposedly. Interesting.

Nothing gay.
The last question was asked...

The abortion issue was rather testy.

MSNBC has Kerry the winner at 67% - 33%.

Bush just called out "haters"

Who is his campaign advisor? Nelly??? P. Diddy???!?

Shrub got street in his closing. "I'm not gonna let these haters . . . ." I almost expected him to reference his "peeps" in Iraq.

[ October 08, 2004, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: KeyWest Guy ]

Well, after all, Nelly is from St louis...

B Man, KWG you two are too funny coming up with the same reference so quickly.

ABC News Polls gave it to Kerry 44-41%.

Hillary ;-> would clean his clock.

Rob

I didn't catch the debate. Sounded like Bush did better, but still not good. I don't think this debate will mean much. Late Friday news doesn't really sink in. I think the last debate will be very important. Isn't it on a Tuesday? That gives the media/people all week to talk about it, so whatever happens is going to be known.

At this point, a little over an hour since the debate ended, the polls on Internet news sites, including Foxnews.com, are showing 70 to 80% think Kerry won the debate. These are unscientific polls.

Speaking of Faux News, I wonder how the pundits over there are going to spin it?

Kerry cleaned the Chimpster's clock again.

What did Bush say? Something about a sea of fluttering green eyelids?? :confused:

[ October 08, 2004, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: FeverDog ]

Bush actually said something? I thought he just moved his mouth and belched a lot....

Rob

I couldn't quite gather whether GWB was for or against the Dred Scott decision. I have suspicions about where he would have stood at the time.

I think he said "battline green eyeshade" meaning the battling accountants from the two campaigns who have a $200 million difference in their estimates of the amt of revenue Kerry's tax increase on the rich would bring in. That said - no one got the reference, in fact people didn't laugh at a lot of his lame humor attempts (e.g., "that almost made me want to scowl").

The scientific polls are calling it a tie, the on-line are heavily Kerry (at least the mainstream ones). IMHO Bush did better, but it was Kerry by a slim margin (and I was thrilled when Kerry brought up the military's failure to secure the ammo dumps when we first invaded Iraq - that has been a sore point for me for months, and seemed to have gotten lost). In too many of his responses Bush was far vaguer, more likely to avoid answering the question, and he really hurt himself on the "name 3 mistakes you've made" question.

Not sure if most of you have seen this but got this site from my friend. Bush and Blair at the gay bar.

http://www.campchaos.com/show.php?iID=647

The Dred Scott reference was odd but it indicated that Bush doesn't understand his own position on judicial activism. He always says he's against those activist judges but the Dred Scott decision is a prime example of too little judicial activism!

This morning, I heard an interview with one of those in attendance who was disappointed by both candidates. She erred by saying that neither talked about stem cell reseasrch & said she's still undedcided because "they talked like politicians and not honestly, like real people." At that point, I sighed; some people are too stupid to be allowed to vote. We've known who the candidates would be since February and they have very different views. Anyone still undecided simply hasn't read a newspaper or paid even a modicum of attention to the campaign.

~Adam

My vote has been pretty much set in stone for quite a while. But quite honestly, I am disappointed in the offerings of both candidates and their abilities to convince me to vote for them.

What I find ironic is that both candidates seem to portray weakness in the areas that they were supposed to clean house- Bush on international policy and Kerry on domestic policy.

In this second debate, Kerry especially seemed to stammer a bit on his answers to tax-supported abortions and especially stem-cell research. I thought he had Tourettes when he was trying to get the word paraplegia out of his mouth. I really wish he could have stated his reasons for his votes a bit more- regarding certain provisions in the abortion law and protection of mother's health- I thought that was a good retort.

Loved that Mr. Bush was struggling at will to avoid the "Its hard work" that was portrayed on Saturday Night Live.

Also- if they had to picture out that blonde girl with the tears in her eyes after her question again I was going to throw up. You are an adult, honey and you have to get the f**K over it- bad things happen in this world and things you don't like.

Senator Kerry needs to tread very carefully during the domestic issues debate. Its not the economy where he can get hurt- it will be the emotional/social issues where he will have to clearly give careful-concise answers of why he voted the way he did. Bush is going to push his Senate record- and Kerry will have to be ready to describe why he voted the way he did every single time.