Some idiots I'm sure are bound to claim it's racism, but it's time that English be recognized and enforced as this country's official language, and this includes at the ballot box--especially at the ballot box. While many will no doubt dismiss this article simply because George Will wrote it, he does make good and valid points.

I personally am fluent in Spanish and can understand Spanish ballots, signs, etc. However, I shouldn't have to. If I am to be an American, I ought to understand English ballots, signs, and the like. This must also be a requirement of anyone desiring to live or work here.

What has always amazed me is how way too many idiots scream about this nation being a melting pot, one that must make immigrants feel at home by offering them so much in their native language. Bullshit. However, if an American were to go to another country and choose to live there, we're expected to learn their language. Why the inconsistency? If an immigrant wants to come to the U.S. and remain, he/she ought to be required to learn and understand English or not be allowed to stay.

If I move to France, Italy, or any other country, I should be required to learn their language, speak and understand it fluently, or not be allowed to remain. I find it interesting that the Netherlands, one of the most liberal nations on the planet, has one of the toughest immigration policies in the world. If you're not fluent in their native language and do not learn their culture and laws, you're not getting in, even if you have family presently there.

There's no reason why the U.S. can't have something similar.

We have gone this long without an official language - whats the big deal.

I just don't understand what this is going to accomplish? Are they going to stop putting some signs in other languages, not allow detailed government forms or contracts to be in another language, put an end to biligual education? While not racist per se, it just strikes me as yet another unecessarily mean-spirited knee-jerk reaction by conservative whites to preserve *their* way of life as the most valid one. (Next thing you know, they'll be wanting a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. )

I think it is essential for anyone coming here to learn English, but I just don't see what this is really going to accomplish.

I always liked that America didn't have an official language. It always seemed like a neat piece of our history that was a throw back to our immigrant roots.

Did anyone see the article by columnist E.J. Dionne? I'll look around and see if I can find a link. He was raised by French speaking parents who also insisted he learn English. He now makes his living writing English, very well, I might add (my mother was an English teacher). But he still sings the songs to his children in French that his mother sang to him and says at night the prayer by their bed that she said by his bed, in French.
Every study has shown that by the 3rd generation (2nd born here) the children of immigrants are either totally English speaking or bilingual. Hell, I wish I was bilingual. My parents were first generation Americand and bilingual but they spoke only English at home, except when they didn't want us kids to know what they were talking about!
The motion is silly. It's only actual results will be harmful; removing Spanish/Chinese/French/Vietnamese etc translations. I mean, does it really hurt me that someone can use an ATM in Chinese? Get a Spanish ballot? Read instructions in Vietnamese? IMO it is helpful as it enables people to be safer.
Switzerland, BTW, has 3 official languages and I have not heard of civil war going on there. Maybe I don't watch the "right" media?

I'm an American. I like being an American and I'm proud to be an American.

This American would like anyone from anywhere to be able to enjoy the things I enjoy here in my United States. But that's my nature. I'm more of a giver.

I think it's incredibly selfish to demand, "Speak how I speak or you are not welcome."

Selfish to require those who WISH to be Americans to LIVE like Americans (follow our laws, speak our language, etc.). Hardly.

It's good common sense, and it will better unify a nation. We do not need a tower of Babel here.

To date, it hasn't become much of a problem; but when English is relegated to the status of being an option, an exception rather than the norm, then that's when it's time to put a halt to this. I'm not necessarily in favor of a constitutional amendment, per se, addressing this; rather, I believe laws abolishing mandatory two-language ballots, signs, etc. are better. Laws designed to get those who desire to be Americans to speak English are better than a constitutional amendment.

Such laws would serve to light a fire under those too lazy to learn the U.S.'s native language. Shit or get off the pot already.


So I guess the strict requirements of the world's most liberal nations are all wrong then? Well, that puts another nail in the coffin of liberalism then.

Are we going to stop printing everything in multiple languages? Why not? Now, this doesn't mean we're going to eradicate every non-English form out there. Offering options is fine, but mandating that whatever's in English must be in Spanish is just plain stupid.

And don't get me started on bilingual education. I have several friends and two close relatives who are all teachers, and every one of them (all fairly liberal, too, I might add) is fiercely against bilingual education. Interestingly, one of them is a Spanish teacher in a district that is about 60% Hispanic.

As she's often explained to me, children who are taught subjects in their native language and not the language of their home country perform much poorly than those who learn a subject in the language of the country in which they reside.

I wonder if the Indians who lived here first spoke english? They clearly do now...Last time I was at one of their casinos I got the 1 finger salute on my way out with a "f**k you very much come back and give us more of your money".

Damn if I only had some beads and blankets.

Calidad de las gracias usted está aquí MIB o nunca sabríamos lo que necesitamos y lo que no necesitamos.

Qualité merci vous êtes ici MIB ou nous ne saurions jamais de de ce que nous avons besoin et de ce que nous n'avons pas besoin.

Dankgüte sind Sie hier MIB, oder wir würden nie wissen, was wir benötigen und was wir nicht benötigen.

ありがとうの長所 MIB ここにいるまたは私達が必要とし、もの必要とし 394;いものを私達は決して知らない。

Бог спасибо вы здесь MIB или мы никогда не знали бы мы и мы.

Dude, you don't mean LIVE like Americans. Americans LIVE in many different ways.

You mean to say everyone should LIVE like you do.

And to me that is selfish.

No, I mean precisely to live like Americans.

Well, I would find that boring and quite sad. It would be a step back in our evolution.

It's a shame we have to put up so many barriers to help us deal with our fears.

Americans do live in many different ways. The timing of this measure unfortunately does cast it in a problematic (read racist or ethnocentrist) light, but the Congress could very well have instituted this law years ago, at more peaceful national moment, or at least at any point before the current hysteria around immigration, and could (easily, I think) have made the argument that English should be become the national language of the United States for reasons of standardization and efficiency in government, trade, etc.

Here's a question (and this probably answered in Bill Buford's book on language, which I haven't read yet): other than Canada, do any of the other countries where English is either the sole language or the predominantly spoken of several have laws specifically naming or mandating English as the national language? Does Australia? Does New Zealand? Does Ireland? Does Jamaica? Does Trinidad and Tobago? Does Great Britain? Just wondering.

Lynn Truss, anyone?

If the President is going to sign such a bill, I think he should be forced first to prove that he can actually speak English without mangling the language. He should at the least be able to construct reasonable sentences, an ability that often seems beyond him.

Exactly, there is no one way to be American. I don't live like someone from the southern states, nor do I live like someone from a metropolitan area. I do not speak the same dialect, I do not eat the same foods, I do not enjoy the same thing.

America isn't a homogeneous country like say a northern European country. It just doesn't work the same way here.

OK, when I came back to this board, I swore I wouldn't touch the political thread with a 10-foot pole, but this topic just makes my blood boil so much that I have to say something. I'm sure I'll regret it, but here it goes ...

My family came to the States when I was 6 (from the Philippines, via Toronto). English was not my native tongue (Tagalog); I learned English in school. I absolutely believe that English must be the official language of the United States. No government documents or business should be in any other language but English. Bilingual education must be abolished immediately because it is a travesty to the children. Kids suffer and the parents don't want it - the only people who seem to want it are teachers' unions. What does that tell you? The private sphere is another matter entirely. Private businesses can conduct business in any language(s) they choose. If a Vietnamese restauranteur doesn't want to bother printing a menu in English because 100% of his customers are Vietnamese, it's his business. Likewise, people have the right to speak whatever language they choose to their children, with their friends, etc., and without harassment or prejudice from anyone. In the private sphere, I'm all for diversity. Hey, we speak Tagalog at all family gatherings.

What is selfish to me is the expectation that immigrants will be catered to in their foreign tongue. What would you say about an American who moved to, say, Mexico (millions of American retirees in Mexico) and expected all government documents and business to be in English? Gee, does the term "ugly American" apply here? When I moved to Spain, I saw learning Spanish as an absolute imperative. After all, what right did I have to expect a nation of almost 40 million to cater to me in English??

Yes, almost all Filipino schools teach English, but for many immigrant Filipinos, speaking English is quite difficult (didn't get that far in school, classroom English is very different from real-world English, etc.). Yet I don't hear any demands that everything be in Tagalog. Why not? Our numbers certainly justify it; we are the 2nd largest immigrant country here in the States. Why not?? Because what is horribly selfish is for an immigrant to come to a country of 300+ million and instead of learning the language and mores of his new country (where he has chosen to live), he expects the 300+ million to bend to him.

Of course, if you did it for Filipinos, you would have to do it for everybody. If a Nigerian who speaks an obscure dialect (hundreds of languages/dialects in Nigeria, most of which are not written) comes to America, is s/he ENTITLED to a translator whenever s/he enters a voting booth, goes to the DMV, or fills out a government form? No way are my tax dollars going toward that craziness.

I couldn't care less what any other English-speaking language nation does. What Australia, GB, or Ireland do is up to them. Again, it's their business, not ours. We have to do what's right for our country - and that is to establish and mandate for English to be the official language of our nation.

[ May 25, 2006, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: BoSoxRudy ]

That does make sense.

I'm all for a federal law saying that states are under no obligation to provide accomodations for speakers of languages other than English. Earlier posters have articulated lots of good reasons for this (government efficiency, limited resources, etc...). But will that mean that your line at a Southern California English-only DMV will suddenly move faster? Not sure about that. To that end, if it's true that bilingual education isn't working, get rid of it, solely out of interest to kids; however, I'm not familiar with it and I'd rather not rely on limited anecdotal evidence.

But an English only law? Meh...

At heart, this seems like much ado about nothing--mostly opportunistic political pandering in an election year--since it's not like Spanish or any other language is usurping English as the main language for doing business with the government, as some have implied earlier. What irritates me, much like the rhetoric around anti-flag burning laws, is the idea that certain American cultural touchstones should be elevated to the level of sacred cows. As exemplified by the First Amendment, one thing I love about this country is that unlike other national regimes, the American federal government generally tends to stay out of the business of mandating core culture, while accomodating the diverse traditions and lifestyles of its citizenry--whether that be religion, language, or varying degrees of patriotic fervor. Sometimes the results can be unpleasant, like flag burning, weird Southern love for the Confederate flag or the absurdly loooong time it took Arizona to recognize MLK, but that's the price of having a land where freethinking and diverse living is welcomed. Many of the same arguments against a mandated national religion apply to language--the analogy isn't perfect, but it is informative.

Also, lets be real here. It's not like we'll suddenly become more unified as a nation or have a kumbaya moment if everyone speaks English. The immigrant farm worker speaking the King's English isn't suddenly going to be able to cosy up with the CEO of Kraft food. We're living in a culture that's increasingly fractured and compartmentalized--individuals zooming to work alone in their cars, or listening to iPods on their way to work without talking to their neighbors on the train or bus, working in their little cubicles, going straight home with little community involvement. At a macrocosmic level, there's little cross-class, cross-cultural or cross-racial dialogue (e.g., for a lot of people I know, I'm their only black friend (beyond mere acquaintance), and I know many black and latino folks who are in the same position vis-a-vis white and asian folks). No official language will change this disconnect or make us all culturally unified. It's just lip service, so to speak. (Ha ha)

(Edited to add: Within the context of voting, it's important to remember that literacy tests were an infamous method of disenfranchisement not too long ago. Who'll watch the verbal gatekeepers, especially in a heated electorate? Food for thought.)

[ May 25, 2006, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: Neptune ]

Neptune, I don't know about the line at the DMV, but this afternoon's federal criminal calendar took twice as long and cost more than it should have because of the need for an interpreter. The Spanish-speaking mother standing surety for her dope-peddling, trash-talking son added tragedy to the injury.

FT, the whole point of the Will article was that Congress twice did pass such laws before, but for want of enforcement since they require reinforcement today. It's just another example of another problem caused by lax law enforcement at another level.

[ May 25, 2006, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: gmginsfo ]

Thanks for the précis of the Will article. I rarely read anything he writes, mainly because of his failure ever to admit his role in the Carter stolen debate briefing scandal....

Gmg's example about the courts points to the sort of efficiency I was talking about; the DMV is another beast altogether, and here in New Jersey it was privatized under Governor Whitman, and has actually gotten worse. (At the one near me, a woman actually screamed out one time while I was there, "Why can't any of these g*ddamned people speak English?" Do you think she was fired?) But overall, mandating one language and enforcing it to standardize and streamline federal governmental services and functions, but allowing states to set different rules for their own governmental offices seems fair to me.

BTW, I was recently in a non-English-speaking foreign country not far from our shores, and I can tell you, not only did people NOT speak English (though many flavored their speech with Anglicisms, and there were signs everywhere of the influence of American consumer culture, especially African-American popular/hiphop culture), but when I would politely ask if they spoke English, many scrunched up their faces and looked at me as if I were INSANE. I'd then start speaking my rough Spanish, and immediately they were quite polite and voluble, no matter how bad the grammar, pronunciations, etc. Every American (save one, with a very bad, imperialist attitude) living there speaks Spanish--TRIES to speak it, and as a result, is able to function. Our national history and culture are different, but outside of countries that mandate multiple languages (Canada, India, Switzerland, etc.), you usually do have to function in the main language of a given to operate, unless like the Netherlands most people speak English (and I did learn some Dutch before I went there). I guess you could live in Japan without learning Japanese or Brazil without learning Portuguese...if you were rich enough or just there for a visit.

It is not selfish to require immigrants to learn English. It IS selfish of the immigrants coming to this country to think that we are going to cater to their every whim. It is actually for their own good. Think of the safety factor...a building is on fire and firemen are yelling for the occupants to jump, but guess what? The occupants don't speak English, can't understand the firemen, and die a horrible death that could have been prevented. Is learning English difficult? Hell yes, English has to be one of the most difficult languages on the planet to learn. But by golly, millions of people have learned it, and they are all the better for it. For the record, I speak fluent Spanish and fluent English.

I cannot comment on what the US will do, or should do, but let me tell you what it is like up here, from my perpective of course.

I have been speaking French since I was 5. It started with me having a tutor in French, and then when the rest of the school started to study French (grade 6 at that time), I joined the advance classes.

Also, as the family cottage was in Quebec, I either had to learn French, or I would have no one to play with.

By the time I reached high school, I was completely bilingual, both in speaking and reading.

In my family, my sister that still lives in Canada is completely bilingual, and her daughter, now in her third year of University, has gone to French language schools since JK.

What this means is that I could go anywhere in this country, and did not have a problem. There are many areas in Quebec where English is not spoken, or if it is, is done very little. I beleive that our family's ability to speak both languages has helped us immensely. The Federal Government is officialy bilingual, and they will not hire unless you can speak both languages, or if it is a critical function, be willing to take language courses.

I won't go into the Quebec political issues, as I beleive they are separate from this. Being bilingual has not hurt Canada. As we had 3 founding peoples (English, French and Aboriginal), it has provided a "glue" that has helped hold Canada together, and in its own way, has helped build La Societe Juste.

Sadly, I have lost a lot of my French in the years I have been in Toronto, but from time to time, I will watch TV5, (News channel from France) or RDI, the French equivilent of the CBC.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.
Oh and English speaking only please. It'll make it easier for all of us."

Last summer back in Ohio I was in a Gas America, (yes, the same one that inspred my song: Gas America Girl), and there were four Hispanic men in front of me in a heated exchange with the checkout guy. After a few seconds I realized that they were trying to buy a $60 money order and the checkout guy didn't understand. I intervened and intrepreted and both sides were instantly at ease and grateful.

I think these 4 Hispanic guys probably know life would be a lot easier for them in the United states if they could speak English. How is forcing them to going to make a difference?

If we are going to have a national language or languages, it should be put on a ballot. The citizens of this country should choose it. Spanish is easier to learn anyway. And at least some of the original inhabitants spoke it.

After Freedom of Speech goes I would kind of like to tackle Freedom of Religion. As an athiest I am constantly uncomfortable with all the rituals and greetings and funny words religious people say. Why is there a dot on your head? And why did he put a black smudge there instead? And please don't tell me to mazeltov or whatever the hell that means. We speak English here. Go back to China b*tch.

Hope that didn't sound selfish.

I have always loved this country because we are the leaders of the free world. Until recently we have always taken the high road. Please remember this is your country, it does not belong to the politicians.

In 230 years we have made an amazing country with a wonderful diverse and prosperouos population. To try to neutralize it by having a national language would be very, very sad. But hey, it would make my Gas America checkout line go faster. Right?

Easy. They'd be able to speak English and purchase their money order. What other sensible option is there? Force the clerk to learn Spanish?

I speak fluent Spanish, as do you; however, most Americans don't. They speak English, for obvious reasons.

It is the responsbility for such Gas America customers to learn English so that they can communicate and so that they can transact day-to-day activities.

If I were to move to France and enter a retail establishment, shouldn't I be required to learn French--and speak it--if I am expected to do business there? Of course. The same thing should apply here.

So you are under the impression that if we enforce a national language, everyone in the United States will speak English.

I think that will work.

As long as we develop some sort of brain-rewiring machine and all Americans that can't prove they can read and write in English are given the option of deportation or assimilation.

Aside from the obvious First Amendment issues - what is freedom of speech worth if it does not include the right to speak in any language? - this is an incredibly mean-spirited and bigoted attack on specific immigrant groups - a story as old as this country itself.

Europeans consistently think Americans are under-educated because we lack the ability to speak any other language - and with the collapse of borders in the EU, I have no doubt European students will have a leg up in the global marketplace explicitly because they can communicate in several languages. I would love to know if the governments of the EU provide basic forms in English, French, German, Spanish, etc. Certainly the airports all have multilingual signs.

And what about Puerto Rico? It's not like they wanted to join the US - are we to eliminate their culture and language because some cracker in the House or Senate doesn't like those brown people? My brother-in-law's parents did not know how to speak English when they moved from Puerto Rico to Massachusetts, although they eventually learned it out of necessity. Should they have been denied the chance to get Social Security cards, or drivers' licenses, or enroll their kids in school, just because their primary language was Spanish? They are citizens of this country, after all.

And many adult immigrants who come here and become productive citizens of this country don't have the time or opportunity to learn English - there is a chronic shortage of ESL classes for adults and these immigrants are often working long hours at menial jobs that conflict with the available classes that do exist. Should their contribution to society be ignored and their lives made more difficult just because they haven't learned English fast enough?

My brother-in-law has a sister, who was first-born in their family, so her first language was Spanish. She is completely bilingual now, and it has been a key factor in her ability to get and keep good nursing jobs (that and passing her boards on the first try). She has been an invaluable help in hospitals where she has worked - helping mainly patients with kidney failure deal with dialysis and transplants. Not only was she able to provide key medical information to those patients whose Spanish was far better than their English, she was able to provide the kind of comfort and nursing that can only come when a caregiver can show they understand the culture and issues of the patients. She understood why it was so hard for some patients to give up native foods that nonetheless harmed their attempts at controlling their diabetes, she could laugh at those jokes that just don't translate into English. I have no doubt she invaluably helped many patients maintain their health and their lives through just that kind of care.

Right now this woman is unfortunately spending much of her time at her husband's bedside - he was greviously injured in a car accident a few months ago and may never fully recover from the brain damage he suffered. It has been a time of huge strain for herself and her two teenage daughters, who of course are half-hispanic. What does it say to these people, at a time of horrible personal tragedy, to have the government of the US trashing their culture, their ethnicity, their heritage for political gain?

Speaking of the difficulty of English, we should remember who a lot of this is geared towards. I've worked with a good number of migrant workers (payroll management in agriculture) and you have to remember the demographic we are talking about here. Most of these people don't have any higher than a sixth grade education, yet we want them to learn English? I know people with a high school education from the U.S. who still don't have a firm grasp on the language.

As already mentioned, most of the time the second or third generation will pick-up a host country's language and culture. That's the way it's been for centuries. I don't think declaring a national language and somehow arbitrarily enforcing it will make this go any quicker.

Oh, quit your exaggerating. It's not mean spirited at all to have immigrants to this country speak America's native language. No one ever said they don't have a right to speak, for example, Spanish. No, where the law comes in is when they should be required to learn and speak English to transact normal American business.

The recent Senate bill, if enacted, is estimated to result in at least 63 million Mexican immigrants over the next 10 years. That's staggering. If we don't have them learn our language, the numbers alone will eventually result in Spanish becoming so acceptable that IT may eventually become the default or primary language in a majority of this nation. Is that what should happen? No way. Fortunately, an overwhelming majority of Americans shares this viewpoint.

It is incredibly hypocritical of those who chastize Americans for complaining that we don't know other countries' languages when we visit or move there, yet they oppose requirements for foreigners to learn OUR language when they get here.

But why should they be required to learn English to transact American business? Is government now going to start regulating the language of business and micromanaging our lives to the point of meddling with private transactions? They're going to pass a law which says that someone who wants a money order at the Quickie Mart must first speak English to do so? To my mind, it should fly in the face of conservatism to not only permit but welcome government to intrude in private contracts and business matters.


It is arguments like this which cause some people to infer racist motives to those who advocate English as the official language. Horrors! Spanish-speakers might become equal some day!! Put up the wall, roll up the welcome mat, enforce the official language rules! And, for god's sake, lock your windows and doors and protect your teenage daughters!!! wink

Agreed. I think anyone who visits or moves to another country ought to at least make an effort to speak the local tongue. You won't get any argument from me on that point, but I just don't see how making English the "official" language will make people learn it. Goverment will still make accomodations to those with poor English skills by providing ballots, government forms, Social Security applications, etc., in Spanish. So I go back to my initial question: what do the supporters of this expect to accomplish (other than standing up to life, liberty, and the American way?)

Because they're in the United States, that's why, and English is the native language here! How much simpler can it be to understand this?

As far as your last question, government already does this in several respects, including in language. According to a friend of mine who works at the Elgin, Illinois TRACON center (Air Traffic Control), English is the official language of the international air traffic control system. Furthermore, any airline that flies into, out of, or over American air space must have pilots that are fluent in English.

There is no "native" language in the US. (Actually, by this logic, we should all speak Lakotah or Algonquin... weren't those the native languages when our nation's founders came ashore?) English is not the "native language" of the country, it is the language that the vast majority speaks, it is the language of the dominant business entities, but it is not the native language.

Would the use of slang, then, put me on the wrong side of this law since those words aren't in Webester's dictionary? How about words that are an amalgam of two or more languages? Dare I ever say the word "frisson" again? My god, what will happen to all the uneaten "steak au poivre"? Will Starbucks refuse to engage in a business transaction with me because I insist on buying a "grande cafe americano" or will their menu be reduced to "coffee with milk"? Worst of all: would Kevin Federline's "Papazao" be banned from the radio because it doesn't praise juicy booty in English?

But seriously, how does having some people only speak Spanish really affect you? Spanish will never replace English as the primary language of business, medicine, scientific research, education, the courts, the federal government -- at least certainly never in our lifetimes -- so my question of what this is intended to accomplish remains unanswered. Or is the sole purpose for this law to officially declare what interracial marriage (and now gay marriage) bans declare(d): any way of living other than mine is of lesser value and we have to preserve the God-fearing Anglo superiority before we become a mongrel race?

[ May 26, 2006, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: aquaman ]

It isn't, you know. English is an immigrant language in the U.S. That's why it's called after a country on the opposite side of the Atlantic. Now you realise this, MIB, I trust you will immediately take steps to learn and use one of the native languages of the country to which your ancestors came and insisted on using their language...

That would be Poland from which my ancestors came, and yes, I can speak Polish as well.

Next.

[ May 26, 2006, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: MIB ]

We are hardly the only multi lingual society on earth. Many countries have accommodations for ethnic minorities – just look at Canada.

I now do about half my business overseas, does that mean I have to learn ALL those languages when I visit those countries? Including Chinese, and Hindi, which are spoken as 1st language by a majority of the earth’s population?

By most estimates, within 30 years, the majority of American citizens will speak Spanish as their 1st language.

Should we all switch then? And expect no accommodation then to those who speak a minority language like English?

There is something about us... perhaps just a part of the American Character because we all came from someplace else trying to find something 'better'... maybe just a chain of fortuitous events... but something that has made us into the greatest explorers the world has ever known.

We want to know the answers, solve the puzzles, and go over that next hillside where no one else has ever been before.

What has made us successful has in part been our ability to learn, adapt, adopt, and create something distinctly new and original. The majority of us are not afraid of change (with good leadership), we revel in it. Our Country is made up of the VICTIMS of all kinds, we were the victims who refused to accept, and sought someplace new to live and raise our families in peace.

If you wish to take English back to its roots, then which roots? I assure you that you would find it very difficult to understand or carry on a verbal conversation with even our founding fathers. Their accents would be vastly different, words would mean different things, and many modern English words would be totally unknown to them. Written communications seem to change much more slowly so I suppose you might carry on a written correspondence as long as you watched your ‘f’s’.

As for ‘proper’ American English, most Americans don’t speak it. Most (97%) can not even diagram a sentence correctly. So what should we teach – basic English survival and communication skills (often improper)? Or a (constantly evolving) version of an upper class, educated, and cultured dialect that few speak properly?

Accommodating those who wish to join us on our quest, by helping foster communications and understanding, seems like a small price to pay.

R

didn't AG Gonzales say recently that this bill if passed wasn't going to be enforced?

so why take the time to vote on it?

this is such a non-issue

doesn't Congress have more important things to do rather than waste time debating whether or not to make English the official language?

what's it going to change-NOTHING

Exactly my point - this entire rage for English is simply about the fears of the invasion of the brown people, who are going to destroy American culture, at least according to the propoganda of the far right.

That was EXACTLY the same argument made by the Know-Nothings nearly two hundred years ago, when my ancestors came starving and dying to these shores. They could at least speak the language, but were still considered an unAmerican influence. The same arguments were made about the Chinese and Japanese and the Italians, etc., etc. etc. Isn't it interesting that no one ever worries about Southeast Asian languages becoming the dominant ones in the US just because there are a huge number of immigrants coming to this country from there. Perhaps it's because of the stereotypes of those cultures - you know, the Asians are smart enough to learn English, the Mexicans aren't - for Spanish to become the primary language in this country, it implies the Mexicans are too stupid or lazy to learn anything else.

Amendment 1 to the Constitution: "Congress shall make no law ...abridging the freedom of speech." Funny, the Founding Fathers didn't put "abridging the freedom of English speech."

America has never been an English-only culture, the Amish still speak a form of the German their ancestors brought over. They've managed to be good citizens for over 200 years and I bet you can still find some "official" business transacted in German in certain parts of PA today.

And what about our permanent residents and citizens who don't speak English as a first language MIB? How long do you give them to learn it before we...what, deport them for non-English speaking? Or perhaps we just let them wallow at the edges of society, unable to get healthcare, or work because they can't even get an ID from the government (can't fill out those English forms). Maybe a few weeks without food will teach them we mean business.

Yes, I am exagerrating, but so is the English-only crowd with their doomsaying predictions. This entire issue is predicated on the idea that some groups simply can't or won't assimilate, and so must be forced to. Can't imagine who else has been oppressed by that kind of thinking.

This country has survived decades with a polyglot of languages spoken here, and I would rather see some hard-working immigrant get the forms he/she needs from the government (without some government clerk insulting their inability to speak English) in their own native language than see those same people SOL because of narrow-mindedness and political game-playing.

If I were coming here from another country, or bringing children here, I'd learn English as fast as possible. It's advantageous to any immigrant to learn the language; it's just common sense. Whether this needs to be legislated or not is another story that obviously causes hysteria (including false cries of racism) on both sides of the issue.

Of course America's full of natives who can barely put a thought together much less speak good English: watch MTV or VH1 and you'll know exactly what I mean...

I don't think it should be enforced. Sometimes not knowing what someone is saying is better. I use to be a fan of Ricky Martin and thought his songs were so sexxy. Then he started singing in English and I realized how ridiculous his lyrics are. What a let down.
Plus, people who complain will always find something to complain about. Once all the immigrants learn English, then they'll need to speak clearly. When they speak clearly, then they need to lose the accent. It never ends. Complainers complain. Texas along the border is like another country. White people living there have adapted and Latinos living there have adapted equally. It's not like America and definitely not like Mexico. People down there can be born American and live their whole lives not speaking English. I think Americans, white and latino, along the border would find this discussion as ridiculous as Ricky Martin's lyrics.
:cool:

This is a tough issue. I keep hearing references back to Ellis Island and all that, but it's just a totally different time. Immigrants were the majority and an accepted part of society whereas now immigrants are not even close to being the majority and are looked at as second class citizens.

Nowadays the jobs that many Hispanic immigrants are taking are 'behind the scenes' jobs where the employer will never need them to know english. There was an article I read about how employer's pay for the American/english speaking workers to take spanish classes when there are so many free ESL classes you can take and will obviously benefit them in the future as well. Of course, employers dont want them to learn English cause the more they know, the more 'power' they get.

OK, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but let's at least stick with the facts. Even the most optimistic projections of hispanic influx into this country don't predict that the majority of U.S. residents will speak Spanish as a first language in 2030. If you're sticking with that story, I want your source. Also, if you think that Ellis Island immigrants did not face the kind of prejudice that today's immigrants do, then you need to brush up on your history. Remember "no Irish need apply"? Italian immigrants tell many similar tales. As for Americans being so completely intolerant, the dour prediction that learning English isn't good enough because then immigrants will face discrimination because they speak with accents, my family's experiences could not be more different. We are doctors and nurses (like so many Filipino immigrants), but also cab drivers, car salesmen, and secretaries. All the older generation in my family speak with quite distinct Filipino accents, yet incidents of prejudice and discrimination are pretty much nonexistent. The sole exception is one pig who lived in my parents' new neighborhood, but there's always gonna be one bad apple.

Is America a perfect country? Of course not, no country in the history of mankind has been perfect. But to the man/woman, every single member of my family loves America because we all know that our lives are infinitely better here than they would be in the Philippines (yes, even the cab drivers and secretaries).

These charges of racism and intolerance are specious. I'm not denying there are bad apples out there, but I think they are by far the exception. What rankles most decent Americans and the reason they resent immigrants who don't speak English is a backlash against the Culture of Entitlement. What gives immigrants who choose to come to this country (forget what may or may NOT happen in 25 years because that's speculation; let's deal with today's reality) the right to be catered to in their native tongue? When I moved to Spain, I learned Spanish. When my family moved here, we all learned (well, vastly improved really) English. Even after more than 35 years in this country, my mother (who was an English teacher in the Philippines) constantly asks me about word nuances, colloquial phrases, and slang.

Storming through life with a sense of entitlement and having that sense of entitlement catered to feels so damn good. But is that catered-to individual better off? No way. I struck up a bit of a friendship with a guy (from Honduras) on the cleaning staff at my old job. When he mentioned that he was taking English classes, I told him to ask me a question every day - a definition, the difference between two synonyms, usage of a colloquial phrase, etc. He struck up the same rapport with a lot of others at the office (a LOT of us worked late there). As a result, his English really did improve over time. Is he better off? You bet.

Bosoxer, you touch on one aspect of this that hasn't been discussed much here: that given a choice and equal fluency in both English and Spanish, most Spanish speakers in the US will go with English. Why? Because it's so much more expressive and has so many more words to express specific ideas and things that Spanish doesn't. Thus, a sort of verbal market choice is being made in favor of the more efficient and economical tongue.

A proposal in Sterling Heights, Mich., to require businesses with foreign-language signs out front to add English translations so firefighters can find them more quickly and better know what dangerous substances might be inside is being denounced as "racist."

And many of the left-wingers here see nothing wrong with English being displaced. Whatever.

Could you provide some context? What kinds of signs are we talking about? What language? Who is claiming racism in this situation?

I could see requiring English wording on signs that do not use the Roman alphabet. Absent a street address, could be difficult to locate a business where the sign out front is only in Chinese or Arabic. Is that what is being required, or does the code provision require the Guatemalan bodega, French tailor, and Italian restaurant to post their signs in both languages?

Also, you didn't say who is claiming racism here. Members of the affected community only who have to hire someone to make all new signs for them? Nancy Pelosi? Members of the left-wing MSM? Michael Moore? My suspicion is that claims of racism are mostly, if not exclusively, coming from those who run these businesses.

I don't know in what context this is. I got the blurb from the Sun-Times.

Gee,

If the official language of the US was declared to be English, I wonder how much money the Italian & French restaurants would have to spend to translate their business awnings/signs, menus, business cards, etc. to English?...

Or what about the cost of translating our cities in the US (signs, letterhead, business cards, etc.). Los Angeles would become "City of the Angels". Sacramento would become "Sacrament".

And hey, why hasn't anybody mentioned Miami (& Dade County for that matter). I understand that English is the 2nd language there (not officially, but at least what people encounter there)...Oh I forgot, most of the Cuban Americans there are registered Republican, so I guess it's ok that they speak Spanish there more than they do English.

[ May 30, 2006, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: SCTrojan ]

And let us not forget the sponsor of the bill is from "Red Colored State", formerly known as Colorado.

God bless this guy!

Casting aside the fact that I have never heard a native Philadelphian, complete with that grating accent, who actually could speak decent English, I really support this imbecile's actions. After all, I am currently sitting here in Puerto Rico where the natives, all of whom speak Spanish and are yet still Americans (how dare they!) and they already know the gringos from the mainland are too ignorant to know any other language. So they immediately speak to us in English. If they were to enforce his rules, he would be up sh*t's creek without the proverbial paddle if he every deigns to come to the Caribbean.

In fact, given his inability to be a decent human, let's just insist he stay in Philly and not infect the rest of the world with yet another example of ugly Americans.

I completely support this guys right to do what he thinks he needs to do. This is the type of action that should be taken, not an amendment.

Although honestly to me it looks to me like more of a marketing ploy. It'll will be interesting to see if the people who support him will buy enough cheesesteak to make up for the former customers who are insulted by it and will go somewhere else.

[ June 06, 2006, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Maddog ]