Ugh, ok! Now this is a stretch.

Well Kenny, the Panthers proved you can beat them running the ball. The Colts proved you can beat them passing the ball.

How can't you beat this team?

In both cases, the Bucs were worn out. Against Carolina, they weren't able to jump out to a huge lead, which allowed the Panthers to remain patient on the ground. Having Stephen Davis running like he did when he was setting Redskins records for most rushing yards in a season can do that for a club, as you and I know so well.

Against Indianapolis, the Bucs probably got tired of chasing around Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne (the two recievers in fact got tired!) and tired of constantly pass rushing without the thread of Edgerrin James there. The Colts dominated time of possession in the fourth quarter and the Bucs weren't able to impose their will on the ground enough.

I'd like my chances if the Redskins team the Bucs were facing was the 1991 Redskins. That team was about as well-balanced an offensive team as I have ever seen. The running back was a 1,000 yard guy who was also a factor coming out of the backfield to catch passes (Ernest Byner), the rookie backup was a speed guy whom Buffalo was scared to death of in the Super Bowl (Ricky Ervins), they had three recievers who could beat you in different ways, an offensive line that gave up nine sacks all year and gave Mark Rypien enough time to drop back, make a ham sandwich, go to the Port-A-Pottie and take a crap, come back and throw a touchdown pass.

Defensively, they had Richie "Shell Game Genius" Petitbon throwing a million different coverages at you and Wilbur Marshall terrorizing opposing quarterbacks and running backs. And Joe Gibbs was Head Genius.

I thought the turning point was PF's Secret Love, Warren Sapp, getting a totally stupid penalty for roughing Manning when the Colts were back up inside the Bucs 20 yard line. The memory is fuzzy, but didn't that keep that drive alive, a drive the Colts scored on?

And on that second Vanderjagt FG try in OT, a Buc player got a finger or two on the ball and from the replays on ABC and Jim @ Outsports Ultimate TV box, if the Buc player doesn't touch it, the ball probably would have gone wide right again.

I understand why the fans left the stadium in droves with a 21-point lead, but I like the idea of them parking their cars again and rushing back in to the stadium. There were definitely more people in that stadium at the final whistle than when there was a 21-point lead.

And by going to OT, our friend Brent beat Cyd in fantasy by 1 point, because Brent had Marvin Harrison.

[ October 07, 2003, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

I'm not a great fan of Manning because I think some of the "fakes" he does are fake, i.e. they don't fool anybody but are purely for show, like some basketball players.

Having said that the man made a brilliant move in overtime (which is all I saw of the game after insomnia due to curiosity about the games outcome woke me up) when he bounced the ball off the defender to make it an incomplete pass when the Colts were tied down near their own goalline. Instincts and innovation like that are hard to teach, remember and carryout in a game and "get away with it" without being called for intentional grounding. From the replay I seriously doubt he really intended to throw the ball to the receiver only 5 yards in front of him blocking the defender with his back to Manning.

The guy does things like that all the time, and I suspect that most of the Colts offense in the fourth quarter had everything to do with his innovations and rapport with Harrison (who is a big twinky fan BTW though it doesn't show in his figure, they make them here in Philly and he supposedly has them shipped to him).

Kudos to Dungy for giving these guys some freedom and confidence, but they did the work on offense. He's probably done a hands-on job on their defense though.

Oh, and why the hell does the NFL have a rule that requires a player to defy gravity. What goes up must come down. Is it his fault he had a soft landing on a buddies back. I think all the gay players should protest that one.

BTW Simeon Rice and his chiseled facial features could land on my back any time.

[ October 07, 2003, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: sportinlife ]

<sigh>. I remember when I lived in the Central Time Zone and could watch MNF past halftime before falling asleep, and not have to see the highlights on Tuesday morning's Sportscenter. I haven't seen the end of an MNF game in years. Sorry I missed this one.

Actually, it met the requirements *perfectly*

(Yanked from Explanation of Leaping)

With that said, the call was right, but I'm not entirely convinced that the rule itself is a sound one. Hopefully, the league (or whoever) will take a look at the rule, and see if they really want that rule as it is.

It's such a narrow rule that it's not probable it'll see use any time soon, but ... you never know

Mike Alstott was placed on IR today.

[ October 07, 2003, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: PCC ]

He will be having surgery on but they are not being specific about the injury. :confused:

Twinkies? Or Tastykakes? wink

addboi,

The question is "Did he land on another player as the rules say?"

I disagree. he may have grazed another player (and only slightly) but he did not "land on another player". He clearly did not come down on any other player. Replays show both of his feet landing on the turf.

Obviously Tastykakes - a fine distinction that only a connoisseur like yourself would note.

The league said the "leaping" call was correct, for what it's worth.

And Alstott is out for the season. Ouch.

I STILL see a Indy - Tampa Super Bowl...this time the best team wins, without the bad calls.

Yeah, this time it's Colts 35, Bucs 17.

So the refs' bad calls are to blame for Indy scoring 21 points in 4 minutes? Mmm-kay! :confused:

You can debate the merits of the OT leaping call, but the Bucs should have never, ever been in the position in the first place. A team with the "greatest defense ever" doesn't allow anyone to rally from such a deficit with so little time remaining.

So am I summing this up correctly? When the Bucs win, they are the better team; when they lose, it is because of bad calls?

[quote]George_vikingfan:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PewterPirate:
[qb] You can debate the merits of the OT leaping call, but the Bucs should have never, ever been in the position in the first place.[/quote]I couldn't agree with you more George. The Bucs defense didn't get the job done by allowing 28 fourth quarter points in the first place, let alone allowing the drive that resulted in the MAKEABLE 40 yard field goal for Mike Vanderjagt. I'm not going to debate the call here because that's already been done ad nauseum.

I told my fellow Redskins fans after the OT loss to the Giants that the Skins defense didn't get the job done because it allowed the Giants to score on the first possession.

For the record, I like overtime the way it is in the NFL, not the cheap, lame ass way that college football does it.

No excuses here, Bucs lost due to counting on old Dungy style offensive beliefs. I give Dungy total kudos, just wished he had learned that while he was still with the Bucs. Look at the debacle he made of the Colts in the playoffs last year versus his old asst coach. But just as happy to have Gruden now.

But Destiny, you can have the ad nauseum about 4:15 on sunday! I like how crybaby Arrington got the NFL to butt in rather than put his real play on the field.

I'm not going to debate whether Arrington is a crybaby, but the NFL should have stepped in the VERY FIRST time that Sapp went skipping through the opposing team's warmups. That's a deliberate provocation that never should have been allowed.

And if somebody from the Eagles or Packers were doing this to the Bucs, Sapp would be the one doing the pissing and moaning and would have been doing it a long time ago!

Arrington puts his real play on the field, every week.

Arrinton knew exactly what he was doing, crying OUTLOUD to the NFL, rather than being a MAN and putting his play on the field. I said before, I don't agree with Sapp doing such things, but what pansy cries in the media? Why didn't he LET Sapp do this then knock him out if you are such a man? (Finger on chin, hmmmmmmmmmm....)

The idea behind the rule is to disallow players running forward and leaping. They may stand still and leap, but they can't jump with a running start.

Rice clearly was moving forward into the jump, and even though it appears the guy was pushed into him, his legs clearly hit the other player. (Give Rice credit, he saw it coming and that's why he pulled his legs up.) Unfortunately we never saw a good angle to see how much forward motion he had during the jump.

Jim

So in their next games after the showdown, the Bucs win big over the hapless Redskins--no real surprise. Meanwhile the Colts go back into choking mode. Every time you think this team has turned the corner they lose again. I guess we can expect yet another playoff tank job.

Arrington has never seen a 15 yard penalty he didnt like...