As always WM, a true american. Standing up for the rights of ALL americans.

Those of us who stand up in the face of "pressure" to conform and not be able to use your own brain... you must be liberal, you will be brainwashed.. ... well some of us trolls refuse...

Or i can just hit on all the young hot guys here and not worry about what i eat...

Originally posted by William1865:
...PhillyFan has deeply held principles that put him at ideological odds with many on this board, and he has a dynamic, gregarious personality that allows him to express those views in an often unconventional, always witty manner. It's a distinct possibility.


When are you guys going to Canada to get married?
We all know how upset PhillyFan is with DOMA, you guys should take the plunge!

[ July 30, 2003, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: RazorbackTX ]

I had the distinct pleasure of sharing a pizza with the one and only PhillyFan during his recent trip to the most Exciting City in the Milky Way, the Entertainment Capital of the Free World, and the City I call home: Las Vegas, Nevada.

"Troll," as W1865 so accurately understands, is hardly the word to describe PhillyFan. He's a hoot. A hoot and a half. He also does hold deeply held opinions - especially about the Bidwell family and their evil plot to destroy the sport of football in the Grand Canyon State. He's also pathologically non-conformist, and refuses to swallow the groupthink, sheep-like political mentality of much of the gay "community." The boy thinks for himself. Something other folks might try for a turn.

And if some folks don't like someone not going along with the prevailing groupthink ... well, sometimes sheep get irritated when you try to move them in a direction different from the one the flock is heading.

Once again, W1865, I bow before your superior ability to correctly analyze any and all situations that you confront (well, except for your inexplicable Red Sox fetish).

Sorry I thought this was about"Is the rebuilding of Iraq going well or poorly?"
Looking at the back and forth in this and other topics maybe we need a new topic
Is the rebuilding of America, after the 2000 election going well or poorly.
I will admit I have been outraged by some of the comments made on this board. But more I am ( hmm is it saddened or disapointed) that some of the posts seem to belong on one of the talking heads tv shows.
No matter if your on the left or right, if your GLBT, you must realize that right now we are at a point where we will either leap ahead or suffer major set back in the area of equal rights. But even there many seem intent on bitch slapping someone rather than find common ground.
I have made my feelings clear I did not support the war ( but will always support our troops) Some had said I miss Sadam, why? This is just one example.
I read your posts to try to understand and find common ground..am I wrong to take this site serious?

A Saddam Supporter Repents

Along with WM1865, CITT is another true AMERICAN (except that whole scott rolen thingy). Not afraid to stand up.. spit in the wind of caution.. and say... what is right... what is true... what it is to be an american, and not a communist.

If there were more Americans like the 2 of you, Iraq would be rebuilt. There would be peace in the middle east, and everyone would have another tax cut.

Amen...

[ July 30, 2003, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: PhillyFan ]

As Jon Stewart asked last night, "Does every economy Bush touches turn to shit?"

They'd have Social Security personal accounts and school choice, too. If only...

People might actually start taking responsibility for their actions, and not blame someone else...

there'd also be no racism.

Not to mention, morality might come back into play... crimes will be punished... ect ect ect...

OH, with us in control, it'd be a DAMN good lookin bunch too

Yeah, that's someone to rely on for intelligent economic analysis.

I didn't know, Bill W, that you and Stewart thought the Iraqi economy was moving along so swimmingly before the recent War. Interesting variation of the old "at least he made the trains run on time" rationalization. (And apparently those timely trains were running to the mass graves, the children's prisons, and rape rooms at Uday's playboy mansion).

And some folks wonder while I think a lot of anti-Bush people are Saddam-nostalgic. I think we can fairly put Stewart's writers in that category.

Not to mention the perspective that some folks need if they think this economy is "shit". This is mildest recession ever. And when the tech bubble burst, some sort of mild corrective was obviously going to happen. Yeah yeah, the unemployment rate's the highest it's been since Bill Clinton was president with Democratic majorities in both houses of Congress, but it's hardly fecal.

In 3-1/2 years at my current job, my salary has risen less than 4% -- and that was all in the first year. That's SHIT.

I'm surprised at you parroting that "Saddam-nostalgic" McCarthyite crap, I know you're way smarter than ... well, some of the total idiots who post here. (One in particular.)

And yeah, Stewart's show actually provides more real news than any of the hardly-watched cable news shoutfests...

And the warlords are still running Afghanistan, have ya read?

[ July 30, 2003, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Bill W ]

In 3-1/2 years at my current job, my salary has risen less than 4% -- and that was all in the first year. That's SHIT.
Mine's down about 70-75 percent. So what's your beef?

I'm surprised at you parroting that "Saddam-nostalgic" McCarthyite crap, I know you're way smarter than ... well, some of the total idiots who post here. (One in particular.)
Don't talk that way about the guy who named himself for a pig.

And yeah, Stewart's show actually provides more real news than any of the hardly-watched cable news shoutfests...
Favorably comparing Stewart to O'Reilly or Paul Begala: I think we can call that one "damning with faint praise."

And the warlords are still running Afghanistan, have ya read?
And girls are going to schools. And soccer stadiums are being used for soccer, rather than mass executions. And people aren't flying airplanes into buildings. Have ya heard??

[ July 30, 2003, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Charlie in the Trees ]

What a laugh! Paul Bremer now says Iraqi elections by mid-2004 are "not unrealistic." You bet. A perfect time to declare "democracy," bug out for the renomination at Ground Zero, and let the country slide back into chaos...

\"[S]ome of the nation's top domestic and foreign policy experts charged this week that the war has destablized the Middle East even as it has distracted the U.S. from the real terrorist threat to domestic security. It has turned public opinion in the Muslim world sharply against the U.S. It has fired the anger of new recruits for al-Qaida and other Islamist terror groups... It has provoked Iran and North Korea into a race for nuclear weapons...[and] the cost of the war on Iraq has siphoned tens of billions of dollars away from measures needed to protect domestic security for future attacks...\" (Salon)


OK, Jon Stewart's more informative than Rather, Brokaw, Jennings and Lehrer too. (Since he's not as co-opted.)

Paul Wolfowitz, last week: "I think all foreigners should stop interfering in the internal affairs of Iraq."

... right ....

Who are these experts exactly? Salon requires a subscription and/or registration to find out, and with all the starving children in the world such a subscription seems like quite an indulgence.

At any rate, I love this fantasy that there were all these mild-mannered, loving people in the Middle East who had never heard of the United States, had never even had a violent thought enter their heads, but now that the US has overthrown the Hussein regime suddenly these former innocents are on some sort of blood-thirsty rampage against America - only because of this war. I can guarantee you pretty much every Middle Easterner who hates America now hated us last week, last month, last year, probably even last decade assuming they are old enough.

And yes, I'm sure Iran and North Korea were busily crafting teddy bears and holding Tupperware parties until this war started, at which point, darn it, they were forced - FORCED! -to change their focus to nuclear weapons. The poor things.

I hesitate to point out that the absence of terrorist attacks is a hint that perhaps the war on terrorism is working rather well, since I don't want to jinx anything. And weren't there supposed to be a flurry of ruthless terrorist strikes against Americans just as soon as the war broke out? Did the terrorists not get the memo that they were supposed to help out the anti-war/Democrat left? Silly terrorists.

But hey, carry on...

William 1865 you said"And yes, I'm sure Iran and North Korea were busily crafting teddy bears and holding Tupperware parties until this war started, at which point, darn it, they were forced - FORCED! -to change their focus to nuclear weapons. The poor things."
Maybe they were considering or working on WMD, but after being lumped into a group of 3 nations and having the first one invaded- do you think they will not step up the pace?
Also your comment"Did the terrorists not get the memo that they were supposed to help out the anti-war/Democrat left?" is offensive. I am anti war so I now am pro terrorist?
Talking about a bunch of sheep! if I think a different course of action is better I am anti american? That is as silly as Phillyfan saying I should move to Canada if I think the system there is better...

p2, WM's point is that... Iran, NKorea have been busily doing these bad bad things for years. W has just called them out on it. Rather than to appease them, and turn your head and pretend nothing is going on.

You know back in the Ray-Gun years, the dems said the same thing about the USSR by the dems... "oh, dont piss them off"... you'll start a war. Well, we all know how that turned out, dont we...

As stupid as N Korea is, they wont use their weapons... why? cause the entire country will be destroyed. Iran, the same.

W will not play "let's make deal" with these guys.. like the previous admin.. Which, in the end, will be a good thing.

The best way to deal with Terrorists? Iron Fist. If you do this, you will die. if you harbor these guys, we will invade your country... Anyone notice how Syria simmered down?

Oh please, the liberals/lefties call Republicans unAmerican all the time. I don't hear anybody hear bitching about that.

I guess that \"pretty much\" is a hedge against the surviving villagers of Afghanistan and Iraq who had their children and spouses die in our bombings, or expire in Iraqi hospitals because they couldn't last until our brilliantly planned restoration of power and water took effect...

(How I wish we could get Israeli extremists to hate us by bombing the illegal settlements. But that's the only radical group of \"Middle Easterners\" we don't want to piss off.)

Not according to me, or anyone else who noticed it was 8+ years between World Trade Center attacks. (The Bushite penchant for distorting and / or lying about their opponents' views -- is it genetic, guys?) Yes, don't "jinx" or gloat yet... If you didn't hear, there was an advisory to the airlines issued about more potential hijackings last week, which GWB addressed yesterday. Even Bush knows we WILL be attacked again.

[ July 31, 2003, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: Bill W ]

William1865 you said"Oh please, the liberals/lefties call Republicans unAmerican all the time. I don't hear anybody hear bitching about that" As I am not part of the herd you rail against I have not and will not make statements like that, but because I am a Liberal you chose to lump me in with those who say the above? So then is it fair for me to say you must be _______(fill in the blank)
because you are on the right? I really think that mindset is what is wrong with this nation...you agree with me or you are____(again fill in the blank)
Sad, sad

And between that you had the bombing of the Cole, the bombing of the embassies in Africa, plots that were disrupted, etc. I don't know if we WILL be attacked again, but I know that such an event would be a blessing to leftists/Democrats who want to get rid of President Bush. So keep your fingers crossed, I guess.

Thats easy, yes.
Became TX gov with a surplus, left with deficit.
Became "president" with huge surplus, already has record deficit.

He must believe that if you try voodoo economics (as Poppy so rightly called it) enough times maybe it'll work, at least once.

Stuff it.

What would really work is to get more people who use theitr eyes and ears to vote.

[ July 31, 2003, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Bill W ]

There was an al-Qaeda attack in Riyadh in May of this year, that I assume you are forgetting.

Which was pathetic and ineffective, and actually as I understand it killed some of their fellow Muslims. Just shows they are really weak right now and are having to focus on small-scale projects close to home. I don't doubt they could strike again here in America - ultimately there's probably nothing you can do to stop terrorists - but I don't think they are as strong as they were on Sept. 10.

William1865 You know on another topic you posted
"I think for many gays being liberal/lefty is trendy or fashionable, like wearing Prada. And I think there is a certain intolerance among gays for dissenting opinions"
Take a look in the mirror buddy! Now I want to have another attack ? I want people killed to prove my point or because that would be a great way to hurt someone else political standing?
Talk about intolerance! you disagree with my positions fine, but do not even imply a liberal would welcome death to a fellow american, let alone human.

UK Parliament all-party Foreign Affairs Cttee says Al-Qaeda risk increased because of Iraq war.

link

I'm not intolerant of your opinions, whatever they may be. Think whatever you want. (And the hotter you are the more left-wing you can be, though I've never met any really hot lefties.) I'm just stating the obvious - that another terrorist strike on US soil would be potentially devastating to President Bush's approval ratings and standing and therefore beneficial politically to the Democrat Party and the American left in general. I don't know for a fact that every single liberal has considered this dilemma, but it is an undeniable fact. Terrorist attack=good news for Democrats.

Note, too, that in the post you quoted I also said something to the effect that not being tolerant of dissenting opinions is not always a bad thing, since internal dissent within an interest group or voting bloc is often detrimental to the goals of that group, and therefore intolerable. In other words, I was talking about the gay community as a political interest group, regarding gay-specific issues such as marriage, ENDA, DOMA (Hey, PhillyFan!), etc. If some anti-war activist stood up in a meeting and said, "Hey, you know, maybe this war isn't so bad..." I wouldn't expect that opinion to be tolerated within that group.

[ July 31, 2003, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: William1865 ]

William1865 I think you are wrong about this point:that another terrorist strike on US soil would be potentially devastating to President Bush's approval ratings and standing and therefore beneficial politically to the Democrat Party and the American left in general. I don't know for a fact that every single liberal has considered this dilemma, but it is an undeniable fact. Terrorist attack=good news for Democrats
IMO Mr Bush would have been so weak without 9/11 he would have one maybe two people running against him for the republican slot.
I think a new attack ( I hope we will not see, but if we can't get our intell act together I fear we will) will cause a rally around the president. Also no matter what we do or do not find in Iraq you can bet a new attack will play out in favor of the war

"Troll," as W1865 so accurately understands, is hardly the word to describe PhillyFan. He's a hoot. A hoot and a half. He also does hold deeply held opinions - especially about the Bidwell family and their evil plot to destroy the sport of football in the Grand Canyon State. He's also pathologically non-conformist, and refuses to swallow the groupthink, sheep-like political mentality of much of the gay "community." The boy thinks for himself. Something other folks might try for a turn.


You've got to be kidding me. PhillyFan does little more than parrot those neo-cons that populate the Fox Television network. There's no evidence from the posts on this board that would suggest that he's an original thinker.

Originally posted by twin58:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2003May14.html

In the news today:

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/technology/...-contracts.html

Hello??? What about the almost simultaneous attack in Morocco? It killed and maimed numerous Europeans and Muslims. What about the Bali blast that killed numerous Australians? Osama bin Laden is still running around Pakistan or Afghanistan or wherever, with Mullah Omar and Ahman Al-Zawahiri, issuing tapes and death threats. European authorities continue to uncover plots against US and EU targets; Al Qaeda is using the Iraq War as a recruiting tool.

Also, when did killing fellow Muslims matter to Al Qaeda? Do you not realize that numerous Muslims died in the World Trade Center attacks?

What planet are you living on?

I'm on Earth. I think the odds of killing fellow Muslims in an attack in Saudi Arabia are much higher than an attack in New York. Of course we continue to uncover plots. The plots will never end. I'm glad they're being uncovered though. I don't think anyone could argue that the Bali, Morocco or Saudi Arabia attacks were as spectacular or devastating as the 9/11 attack, or even the first WTC attack or the bombing of the Cole. Al Qaeda is weak at this point. They undoubtedly can strike again, but they're week.

The Iraq War as a recruiting tool? You make it sound like al Qaeda is a fraternity or something.