About an hour ago, French TV was saying it was too close to call. Now, the BBC is saying that Schroeder has won.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2274521.stm

FoxNews has called Gerhard Schroeder the winner.

Schroeder's got serious problems with the U.S. right now. Rising anti-Semitism in Germany and Schroeder's government is comparing US to Hitler? Schroeder's done the impossible: made France look like our friend.

It was sad to see Joe Biden on the TV apologizing for the idiot comments made by Schroeder's justice minister. Appeasement revisted. In all seriousness, the more TV time Biden gets, the better the Republican's chances are of winning the Senate.

Schroeder won.

Charlie, I cant let that distorted analysis go by. The German Justice Minister did not compare YOU to Hitler. She was criticising George Bush not all Americans. In fact, what she said was that Bush was using a foreign campaign (Iraq) to distract public opinion from domestic problems (corporate stuff). She said that was an old trick QUOTE "as we know right back to the days of Adolf Nazi" UNQUOTE. When she was criticised by the German press for comparing Bush with Hitler, she said QUOTE "I did not compare George Bush with Hitler - only their methods" UNQUOTE.

Whatever, dont forget thousands of members of Germany's Social Democrat Party were rounded up and sent to Dachau and other concentration camps. They know more about Fascism than you or I ever will (fortunately).

P.S. what have you got against the French!!!

Schroeder's win gives me a reason to follow the Germany-Turkey relationship in earnest now.

[quote]Originally posted by Charlie in the Trees:
FoxNews has called Gerhard Schroeder the winner.

Schroeder's got serious problems with the U.S. right now. Rising anti-Semitism in Germany and Schroeder's government is comparing US to Hitler? Schroeder's done the impossible: made France look like our friend.

It was sad to see Joe Biden on the TV apologizing for the idiot comments made by Schroeder's justice minister. Appeasement revisted. In all seriousness, the more TV time Biden gets, the better the Republican's chances are of winning the Senate.

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Jamesw answered this, but there has long been post-WWII anti-Semitism in Germany, and it's not just there but throughout Europe. That said, Germany, like any other sovereign nation, has the right to criticize our President and his policies, and vice-versa. The administration is growing hysterical about criticism these days. Bush again trumpeted this "either your with us or you're with the enemy" this morning in Trenton; this is NO WAY to win friends and influence allies. It's bullying, unilateral and dangerous.

Where does the "appeasement" come in? Are you saying that Schröder is appeasing Iraq? Calling for renewed, vigorous inspections is not appeasement.

Personally, I would rather NOT see Germany, with its population of nearly 90 million, its vast wealth and industrial infrastructure, its outstanding scientific capacity, and its long history of belligerence, sending troops ANYWHERE. I also don't want Germany to possess nuclear weapons, though it would quite easy for Germany to develop them.

BTW, France IS our friend. France has repeated sent troops on behalf of U.S. efforts, and continues to work closely with the United States despite the many divergences in interests. France EVEN BEFORE 9/11 attempted to assist us in tracking down the Al Qaeda fanatics, and has been a stalwart in this effort since then. So has Germany, so has Spain, so has the Netherlands, etc. Our friends do not have to be our lackeys. France, Britain, Canada, Japan, Italy, the Netherlands, Mexico, and most of the U.S.'s other close allies all have their own concerns, and we should not expect that they will fall in line like dominoes whenever we demand something, especially when it is so sketchily set forth like this Iraq war

[quote]Our friends do not have to be our lackeys. France, Britain

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True. There's considerable sentiment in England that if Blair just rubber-stamps Bush's plans, he'll be bounced out of office. I think the Labour Party has to call elections within the next 2 years. The British resent being seen as an outpost of America Inc. and STILL haven't gotten over the loss of empire and the prestige--however evilly it was gained--it brought (see: Russia).

Here's a clickable map of the German election results.

Re Schroder's opposition to Bush's Iraq war plans, and Bush's subsequent anger towards Schroder:

"Do we really want to punish the Germans for being pacifists? Once those guys get rolling in the other direction, they don't really know how to put the brakes on." -Maureen Dowd, NYT, 9/25

No More Bratwurst!

[quote]Originally posted by jamesw:
Here's a clickable map of the German election results.

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Cool.

What do you call the political subdivisions in Germany? Regions? Provinces? Districts?

They are called Länder or Laender, which translates literally as Lands, but when used in this context means "states." Of German also has the words "Stadt," which means "city" (hence Yiddish 'shtetl' or little city) and "Staat," which means "State" in the abstract and political sense. Germany has 16 Länder. Several were historic entities, like Bavaria, Baden-Württemberg, Hesse, and Bremen, while others are fairly new.

The richest and most populous states in Germany are all in the west: North Rhine-Westphalia (Nordhrein-Westphal), Bavaria, Baden-Württemberg, Rhineland-Palatinate (Rheinland-Pfalz) and Niedersachsen (Lower Saxony). There are also city-states like Hamburg and Bremen, which are quite wealthy too.

The former East German section of the country, which includes Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (Mecklenburg-West Pomerania), Thüringen (Thuringia), Brandenburg, Sachsen (Saxony), and Sachsen-Anhalt (Saxony-Anhalt), is much poorer, although Berlin (which is officially bankrupt) sits smack dab in Brandenburg, and several major cities (Dresden, Leipzig) are in the southeast.

[quote]Originally posted by fantomas:
Germany has 16 Länder.

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Thanks. What are the divisions of the Länder called?

Hi Twin58--a great question. I have been doing some research on Rhineland- Palatinate and Baden-Württemberg (BW) so here goes:

The state of BW has divisions like our congressional districts for the Bundestag (the federal house of representatives). These are the Bundestagwahlkreise (wahlen = vote; kreis = circle, district). Then there are also administrative divisions within the (Bundes)land of BW for the apportioning of representatives to the Landtag (or state parliament/diet), and these are the landtagwahlkreise (landtag vote districts).

BW has four major Regierungbezirke (administrative districts), which comprise four quadrants containing one of the four large cities of Stuttgart, Freiburg, Tübingen, and Karslruhe.

BW also has regional divisions, sort of like "upstate New York," etc. These appear to be historical/geographical. They include Franken (Franconia, which is also the name of an area in northern Bavaria), Unterer Neckar (for the river in northern B-W), Donau-Iller (Danube-Iller), etc. I'm not sure if there are political entities attached to these regions, though there might be.

Finally BW, like RP, is divided into Stadtkreise (city districts) and Landkreise (state districts/counties); the larger, famous cities, like Baden-Baden, Stuttgart, Heidelberg, Karlsruhe and Ulm for example constitute their own counties and so are Stadtkreise or may be both Stadtkreise and Landkreise, while other smaller cities that may be administrative centers of smaller areas--like Hohenlohekreis or Calw--are Landkreise (counties).

(Corrected spelling of Württemberg)

[ September 27, 2002: Message edited by: fantomas ]